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Regional Summary




Founded - 30 April 2005
Population - 165 Nations
World Ranking - 61
Regional Power - High

Government of the Global Right Alliance


Speaker of the People's Assembly and World Assembly Delegate
Pidgeon Island

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TBA

World Assembly Delegate
Angusp (aka Bodegraven)

High General of the GRADF
Joe Bobs
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People who have opinions...
Topic Started: Apr 17 2007, 05:20 PM (194 Views)
Old Zertaxia
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The Ex-Speaker
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...on gun control should not use the Virginia Tech shootings as a platform to launch their policies on America, especially if they're not American.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/?GT1=9246


The Austrailian Prime Minister can go fuck himself.
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Old Zertaxia
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The Ex-Speaker
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That also goes for the Times of London.
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Jivdom
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Resident Insomniac
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Well... Look at the arguement FOR gun possesion... It based on a out-dated constitution that isn't really that soveriegn anyway...


Anyone Heard of Snowdrop?
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Pidgeon Island
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Not so stale.
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Jivdom
Apr 17 2007, 04:25 PM
Well... Look at the arguement FOR gun possesion... It based on a out-dated constitution that isn't really that soveriegn anyway...

The argument for gun possession is self-protection. If someone comes and tries to kill me in the street, I want, nay, I deserve the right to shoot him.

That's why I think handguns should be legalised in Britain.

Gun carrying should be encouraged if anything. I mean, if those students had guns on them, they could have put a few pieces of lead in the bastard's brain before he did the same to them.
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Jivdom
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Amendment II (1791) american Constitution
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The reason for it is clearly stated. Arms were allowed to protect USA from the British and French and Spainish who all had a more powerful military. Now America has a professional army so the amendment is no longer relevent.
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Pidgeon Island
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Not so stale.
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So, people still still be allowed to carry handguns for protection against nutters like this dude who shot all the students.

he still would have been able to find a gun, legalising them just means that decent law abiding citizens can protect themselves against the ones who would get the illegally.
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Jivdom
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Jivdom
Apr 17 2007, 04:45 PM

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,.

Protection of state not protection of individual is more than implied in the amendment.
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Pidgeon Island
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Not so stale.
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so what? it still has the same end result.
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Jivdom
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The point is the reason for retaining the right to bear arms is based on a out of date document.

has anyone heard of Snowdrop?
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Old Zertaxia
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The Ex-Speaker
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Out of date implies that the Constitution does not work to provide a foundation of function for the American nation.

Last time I checked, America is still here.

The Second Amendment was not written (at least not primarily) to allow citizens to defend themselves from the British or the French or the Spanish. We'd already beat the British, the French had helped us with that, and I don't know about the Spanish. They were doing whatever Spanish people do. Invading Central America, probly.

The Second Amendment was included because of the fear of a standing army in America. The right to bear arms is guaranteed to protect democracy and civil liberties from a tyrannical government, if one ever came to power. The state militias mentioned are to protect the people, and the state, from the federal government, not foreign powers.

So, technically, if you want to use the arguement of whether or not it still applies to modern days, the answer is absolutely yes. You can definitely say, especially you liberal, leftist Europeans, that the current federal government presents quite a threat to civil liberites of the American people and states, and so there is even MORE of a reason to make sure the people retain the right to bear arms.


And in any case, it is not YOUR place to tell a democratic state that it should change. Change is up to the people, of which YOU are not one.


And like I said before, using a tragedy as a platform to look down your nose and lecture another people for their laws and traditions is highly distasteful, at least to me. It appears people in other parts of the world find such behavior highly agreeable....
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Jivdom
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I am not a german I condemn hitler. I am a Zimbawean but I condemn Mugabe. American is hardly different because it claims to be democratic...
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Jivdom
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Quote:
 
And like I said before, using a tragedy as a platform to look down your nose and lecture another people for their laws and traditions is highly distasteful, at least to me. It appears people in other parts of the world find such behavior highly agreeable....

You... Are a fool. I can only assume you started this thread thinking... Ah somethign to get offended about. Well look back over wahts been said... The only person to use this as a platform is PI.... arguing FOR guns.
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Pidgeon Island
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Not so stale.
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Jivdom
Apr 17 2007, 05:30 PM
American is hardly different because it claims to be democratic...

America is democratic. Stop condemning it and start condemning the UK for not having an elected head of state.

and I'm not using this as a platform to support guns, I'm just saying if one of the students had a concealed weapon on them, this may have ended up a whole lot better.
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Old Zertaxia
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The Ex-Speaker
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Jivdom
Apr 17 2007, 12:30 PM
I am not a german I condemn hitler. I am a Zimbawean but I condemn Mugabe. American is hardly different because it claims to be democratic...

America today is a lot different from Hitler's Germany or Mugabe's Zimbabwe.


The people of a nation decide the happenings in that nation. Outsiders don't. Outsiders can only comment on actions that affect them. Gun control in America does not affect you. The people of Germany and Zimbabwe did not make the decisions that Hitler or Mugabe made.


Claims to be a democracy? I'm sorry, is there some definition that I don't know, that you are using?
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Old Zertaxia
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The Ex-Speaker
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Jivdom
Apr 17 2007, 12:31 PM
You... Are a fool. I can only assume you started this thread thinking... Ah somethign to get offended about. Well look back over wahts been said... The only person to use this as a platform is PI.... arguing FOR guns.

Did you read the linked article?


The London Times and the Austrailian Prime Minister BOTH used this tradgedy as a platform to further their gun control policies. THAT is why I started this thread.
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Dupitable
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How do you like THAT side boob?
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To be honest, in Britain since 1997 when the Snowdrop Appeal managed to successfully get handguns banned based on an incident like this, gun crime has trippled.

If Tony Blair decides to abolish the Monarchy, all other Parties and the Legislature tomorrow. There is Jack shit that as British Civilians you can do about it to force him out of power.
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Jivdom
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Quote:
 
And in any case, it is not YOUR place to tell a democratic state that it should change. Change is up to the people, of which YOU are not one.

yes it is. It is my place to comment on whatever I feel like and if you think you can stop feel free to try... That does sound like something you're country likes to do.

Quote:
 
America today is a lot different from Hitler's Germany or Mugabe's Zimbabwe.

Mugabe's Zimbabwe is differnent from Hitler's germany... I don;t see your point.

Quote:
 
The people of a nation decide the happenings in that nation. Outsiders don't. Outsiders can only comment on actions that affect them. Gun control in America does not affect you.

Well that is optimistic...

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The people of Germany and Zimbabwe did not make the decisions that Hitler or Mugabe made.

Well they did choose to elect hitler?


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Gun control in America does not affect you

Welcome to the modern world. Anything that happens anywhere in the west effects the rest of the west. Whilst I don;t care (and I am actually in favour of loosening gun control laws overhere) about gun control in american I can say whatever I bloody weel choose.

Quote:
 
The London Times and the Austrailian Prime Minister BOTH used this tradgedy as a platform to further their gun control policies. THAT is why I started this thread.

Well somethign does not add up there...
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And in any case, it is not YOUR place to tell a democratic state that it should change. Change is up to the people, of which YOU are not one.

You were replying to me... Arguing that it;s not my place and such... Yet you were just repeating an arguement you've already made about an article...
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Jivdom
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Dupitable
Apr 17 2007, 05:40 PM
To be honest, in Britain since 1997 when the Snowdrop Appeal managed to successfully get handguns banned based on an incident like this, gun crime has trippled.


^^Top marks! Point is the peole of the area used the incident as a platform... The mother of the dead kid was involved. If that's what they want to do credit to them.


Quote:
 
If Tony Blair decides to abolish the Monarchy, all other Parties and the Legislature tomorrow. There is Jack shit that as British Civilians you can do about it to force him out of power.

True... The average british citizen probably wouldn't notice in these age... But institutions are in place and hard to remove. What gives Blair his power is precendent and institutions. That;s why the House of Lords is giving him so much grief now.
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Dupitable
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How do you like THAT side boob?
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Problem is they wouldn't be there any more. They could stick a bill through the commons, and reason that it does not need to be ratified by the Lords or the Queen because it abolishes them. If the Lords protest, they are arrested by the police (who are loyal to Blair), similarly the Queen and opposition.

The only people around that could and would do anything about it would be the army.
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Jivdom
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Quote:
 
they are arrested by the police (who are loyal to Blair), similarly the Queen and opposition.

Are they really? As they are apart of the country they probably hate him like everyone else.
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Problem is they wouldn't be there any more. They could stick a bill through the commons, and reason that it does not need to be ratified by the Lords or the Queen because it abolishes them. If the Lords protest, they are arrested by the police (who are loyal to Blair), similarly the Queen and opposition.

And what happens when Parliament just says NAY.
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