Speaker of the People's Assembly and World Assembly Delegate Pidgeon Island Members of the Committee TBA World Assembly Delegate Angusp (aka Bodegraven) High General of the GRADF Joe Bobs |
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| Topic Started: Aug 21 2009, 04:48 AM (1,625 Views) | |
| The Ruescher Empire | Sep 29 2009, 07:55 PM Post #201 |
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Buh
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Lol uhhh thanks? Probably woulda been better if I was drinking with company though
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| Joe Bobs | Sep 29 2009, 10:46 PM Post #202 |
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GRADF High General | FRA Arch Chancellor
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Wow, I never thought I'd be agreeing with TRE, but... no actually I'm not sure I do agree. I don't think it's fair for someone who already pays for their own and their families medical care to have to pay towards the states. Then again, if its standard to pay National Insurance, and someone decides the NHS isn't good enough for them and they feel they have enough disposable income to pay for private healthcare, I guess they can if they want. So actually yes, I do agree with TRE. Not the being drunk bit. TRE, if you're gonna get drunk don't go on NS. You'll get depressed. Go to the pub! Dup, keep us updated on your book, it sounds interesting. And Sandhurst? Let me know what it's like. I once met someone who went there. Sounds very interesting and that. He did say there was a bit of an elite there though - royals and their cronies. I'm a smoker and to be honest, I don't begrudge the sin tax. I appreciate that money has to come from somewhere, and I'd rather have tax cuts in other places. I love to smoke, but if it cost £1.50 a pack it'd end up killing me. I think the limit on most people's smoking is the cost. What I do resent is the smoking ban. Curiously most people here seem to think the other way round, especially non-smokers. Did you know standing next to smoker for five minutes is no worse than walking past a traffic jam or very busy road for five minutes? Very, very few people have died of second hand smoke. The statistics are grossly exaggerated. There's a culture of, say a person dies of a heart attack, it'll instantly be 'oh their husband smoked? Oh then it's from second hand smoke.' I think the best point made about the smoking ban comes from Trey Parker and Matt Stone who said, its not about the freedom of smokers, it's about the freedom of a business owner who wants to have a smoking establishment. |
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| Northern Chittowa | Sep 29 2009, 11:17 PM Post #203 |
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The Grand Old Duke
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I agree with you on the smoking ban but for slightly different reasons. One slight reason is the nanny state, another is for the atmosphere of the pub when smoking was around...was completely different, and it actually made it a challenge trying to find your table again after you had gone to the bar due to all of the 'mist' that had formed ![]() But the main reason is due to the fact that it has literally killed the pub industry in the UK. You only have to look at the fact that around 3 pubs every day are closing down to see the effect it has had upon them. If people have to go outside to smoke, they will eventually give up and just stay at home. This way they can smoke and drink in doors without fear of apparently 'killing' anyone else. |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Sep 29 2009, 11:51 PM Post #204 |
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Buh
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Wow Joe bobs agreed with me O_O Quick! Call a Parade! |
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| Joe Bobs | Sep 30 2009, 12:16 AM Post #205 |
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GRADF High General | FRA Arch Chancellor
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There should be non-smoking and smoking pubs. Some people say, this would mean that the non-smoking pubs couldn't compete? Well what does that tell you? People like smoking pubs! And yes NC, I go to the pub a lot less since the ban. Also, if I do go, I go for maybe one or two drinks and that's it. I bet lots of smokers do the same. |
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| sedge | Sep 30 2009, 12:47 AM Post #206 |
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Stale
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I mainly know non-smokers, and all of them are delighted with the smoking ban. You can now go to a pub without having to worry about getting lung cancer, or having your clothes stinking of someone elses smoke. I wouldn't want to see smoking banned outright, or anything like that, but it directly harms those around you, and is a great nuisance to them, so I support limits on where people can smoke. |
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| Northern Chittowa | Sep 30 2009, 12:54 AM Post #207 |
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The Grand Old Duke
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So is driving cars to someone walking...That effects the health of someone else directly as well does it not? By following your thought therefore, should that not be regulated with limits as well? I can't say i ever went to a pub and worried that i would get lung cancer when i entered. I was more concerned with getting a drink and poisoning myself that way! Yes i agree that the one benefit is that my clothes no longer smell awful after a night out, but in the grand scheme of things i really couldn't care less about that :P. |
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| sedge | Sep 30 2009, 01:01 AM Post #208 |
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Stale
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But banning cars isn't a realistic option, whereas banning smoking in enclosed spaces is. I know people will say they should have a right to smoke where they want, but you have to take account of the fact that its harmful to other peoples health, which in my view means that the right to be in a smokefree environment takes precedence. |
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| Northern Chittowa | Sep 30 2009, 01:07 AM Post #209 |
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The Grand Old Duke
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But banning smoking isn't a viable option either, for reasons stated before and the government will soon come to realise the fact that its ban is helping to kill off another sector of which helps to fill its own coffers. The old system that were in pubs was the best option if you ask me, aka smoking areas/rooms and non smoking areas/rooms which directly takes into account your want for a smoke free area to relax while also allowing those who smoke the chance to do so in the warmth and relative comfort of being indoors. Yes smoke may travel over, but hell, so do peoples sneezes which may give you swine flu, so do a lot of things which are detrimental to your health... Edited by Northern Chittowa, Sep 30 2009, 01:07 AM.
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| Old Zertaxia | Sep 30 2009, 01:10 AM Post #210 |
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The Ex-Speaker
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NC, I'm not sure how you feel about bringing your mother into this, and I'd be perfectly willing to leave her out of it, but I would like to make a response to that, but I'm going to let you make the call, because you might find my response offensive. Governments shouldn't need such vast supplies of cash. They should take care of civil order and national defense, and I'd allow minimal public services, where it is impossible or impractical for such services to be provided by the private sector. If you cut off all the government fat, you wouldn't need sin taxes and gas taxes....a minimal flat rate income tax would probably take care of it all. Though I don't claim to be an expert on taxes, mind you. |
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| Old Zertaxia | Sep 30 2009, 01:12 AM Post #211 |
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The Ex-Speaker
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What would stop the government (the public option) from running the private sector out of business? |
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| The Ruescher Empire | Sep 30 2009, 01:12 AM Post #212 |
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Buh
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I like Old Z's method the best.... As for the smoking thing we should just have smoking areas at pubs/bars. That way they don't lose out on the money and people can fucking smoke where they want. |
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| Old Zertaxia | Sep 30 2009, 01:15 AM Post #213 |
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The Ex-Speaker
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I disagree with the premise that it should be standard for anyone to pay for someone else's healthcare/insurance.... And I thought the NHS was perfect? Something to be proud of? Whyever would anyone decide it wasn't good enough? |
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| Old Zertaxia | Sep 30 2009, 01:20 AM Post #214 |
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The Ex-Speaker
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On the smoking ban, I'm not like super-intense on it. I really don't see a problem if an exception was made for pubs, where maybe most of the customers got together and agreed that they wanted a place to smoke....it'd make it more like club or something, but there it is.... Second smoking is probably overblown, but it still isn't healthy and my personal problem with smoking is mainly the stink and how it gets in my clothes. But I can make the personal decision to not go to places where smoking is allowed. I really don't like trampling other peoples rights to enjoy/kill themselves.... |
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| Northern Chittowa | Sep 30 2009, 01:20 AM Post #215 |
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The Grand Old Duke
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Go for it Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and while on this instance i very much doubt you will be able to change my mind, i am quite interested to hear why you think differently.
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| Old Zertaxia | Sep 30 2009, 01:21 AM Post #216 |
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The Ex-Speaker
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What method is that? |
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| Old Zertaxia | Sep 30 2009, 01:25 AM Post #217 |
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The Ex-Speaker
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Well, I'd like to know what makes you think your mother "deserves" health care, firstly. I mean, I know she's your mum and all, and the NHS makes it so a British citizen does not have to worry about providing their own care, but let's say she was born in a country without publicly provided healthcare. How do you get healthcare in such countries? You get insurance and pay your premiums, and when/if you have a problem, you get healthcare, paid for by your insurance company, whom you paid to provide this service when/if you needed it. And I'd like to point out that need does not entitle anyone to anything. |
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| Northern Chittowa | Sep 30 2009, 01:25 AM Post #218 |
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The Grand Old Duke
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Oh i wouldn't say the NHS is a perfect system, not by a long shot. It has its flaws just as most things do, but overall its a good thing to have. |
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| Northern Chittowa | Sep 30 2009, 01:33 AM Post #219 |
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The Grand Old Duke
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I find it quite a difficult question to answer really, as the NHS has been around for 60 years or so and as such its all i know! I think she deserves the right to healthcare because she is a human being, because she puts her faith in this country that she lives in and pays a fair amount of money to to protect her (bit of thomas hobbes and his social contract there for you... :P) Dont get me wrong, i understand the idea behind a private healthcare system and in reality the NHS isn't 'free' perse as part of the tax you pay goes towards its funding and upkeep. yes private, if you can afford it, is better, but for those who can't, like my mother, the NHS gives you a service of which every person should be given a right to, the right to live. I may not have explained myself that well, but its 1.30am and i dont normally stay up this late So forgive me
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| The Ruescher Empire | Sep 30 2009, 01:38 AM Post #220 |
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Buh
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This method |
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and while on this instance i very much doubt you will be able to change my mind, i am quite interested to hear why you think differently.

8:17 PM Jul 11