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| EHM 1.16 - grandfather rule discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 16 2011, 07:48 AM (571 Views) | |
| alexstream | Jun 16 2011, 07:48 AM Post #1 |
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I'll start with this, give me your opinions. try hard to agree with me as we cannot have 15 GMs proposing different solutions. I will gladly expend on a topic/ point / description, if required to do so. The main issue would be with the pot boost, if you think about something else, tell me about it. FACT #1 Events : June 21st – Game update / new year in EHM (runs from june 21st to june 20th of the next year) Trades – Cons might change FACT #2 1.16 (random occurings at given events) Pot boost when high* con low pot guy gets signed U20** and is still U20 on june 21st Pot drop when a low con high pot guy gets signed U20 and is still U20 on june 21st Con can boost in trades (normally only low con) con can drop in trades (everyone) *high / low : high pot doesn’t mean high on pot. Low pot means anything below 7x (so 69 and down). High con for the purpose of pot boosts means 75 and more (however there are some non-documented rare occurrences of pot boost when the cons is 74 and lower… don’t bank on it though) **it goes random, the odds are like 10 times higher when the player is U20, to give you some figures, I’d say that maybe 1/3 player U20 boost, making it grossly 1-2 per team every given year with normal 1.16 drafts, while over 20 it’s more like 2-3 per year in the whole league. Normally it’s safe to say that if the player is over 20, he won’t boost FACT #3 1.18 Trades : cons sometimes drop, never seen it go up June 21st : nothing happens pot wise FACT #4 HWL players were created by many crazy minds who thought that to be diverse, you should have a wide range of players. Diverging from Hannes’ philosophy to only have 80-80 players and have a fisher price “everything is equal” game. Doing so means that a guy like Marek Homza exists, healthy individual. Mid 1st round pick, 3rd liner. Let’s pretend Marek is U20 and has chances to boost next june 21st . Current situation (projected on excel) : Sh 82 (80) Pl 66 (64) St 68 (67) Ch 70 (77) Po 70 (74) Ht 81 (80) current Off 72 Def 74 Projected situation if he was to boost : Sh 93 Pl 74 St 78 Ch 89 Po 85 Ht 93 Off 81 Def 89 --------- CONCLUSION - Pot boost To say the least, this demonstrates that some players would DRASTICALLY boost and were not made for that. It would give random advantages to players who have those kind of players, while they weren’t traded for with “that kind of value” in mind to start with. These guys would instantly be granted “Super Sayen” status without having to fight Vegeta. PROPOSAL Make a blacklist of pot boost. i.e. As of “the last 1.18 draft”, identify every player with pot under 7 and monitor it extensively for the 3 first years (drafted at 17 + 3 years). After the 3rd year, keep it archived as a blacklist and “spot check” every so often. Boosts of blacklisted players are still illegal, but since they happen so rarely, don’t need to check player blacklisted. If something significant happens, someone will notice and that player will get kicked back. I hereby propose that since it would sooner or later happen, GMs should be made responsible to report their “illegal boost”. Anyhow, from experience, every June 21st, a geek-GM takes an excel file, compares it and reports every boost that happened, monitoring would surely happen that way (even if we didn’t set up a system that is) since it’s fun to see who boosted and who didn’t. -make a blacklist, post it on a server. include in the rules that "blacklisted cannot boost". have someone monitor extensively for the 3 first years. after 10 years, you can throw away the list (17 + 10 = 27 y.o. players normally stop evolving) --- Conclusion pot drop : too bad for you. you know the rule of thumb. just don't sign a U20 low con player if you dont want to risk it. ---- Conclusion con drop: unfair. Should be reverse (it’s so random and b/c it went down doesn’t mean it will go back up) --- Conclusion con boost : Good for you, however, to prevent abuse, only 1 trade per EHM year should be allowed. i.e. yes you can trade them 10 times in one EHM year, but only the player would only be allowed to boost in the 1st of those trades. Then, it’s up till next EHM year. -make a rule to that effect. |
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| dlbalr | Jun 16 2011, 01:33 PM Post #2 |
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CON boosts happen in 1.18, I've seen quite a few guys go up (mostly young guys I've dealt no less). NHL examples of this include Viktor Lindgren and Alexander Berezin. |
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| alexstream | Jun 16 2011, 01:59 PM Post #3 |
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ok, maybe b/c historically we've had so few low con players that the sample was too small to notice. thanks for the heads up. HWL is the only 1.18 I've been in as a matter of fact. |
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| mhaydis | Jun 16 2011, 03:07 PM Post #4 |
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Overlord of Darkness
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I am not picky either way...it might be fun to throw something in that makes it a little more interesting. More than anything, I think we need to set this league up in a way to make it more appealing to people that may already play this game. We all know it's a hard game to get started at and if we can pick off members from other leagues, it might be worth making some adjustments to get more GMs |
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| alexstream | Jun 17 2011, 11:15 AM Post #5 |
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should we make a poll whether or not we start this shit this year? could be fun. |
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| jetsniper | Jun 17 2011, 01:18 PM Post #6 |
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For Asgard!
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No, not mid-season. I was going to start it at pre-season next year. |
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| alexstream | Jun 18 2011, 09:48 AM Post #7 |
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im not debating. im fine either way. i'll just say that i dont see the difference between mid season and pre-season. as long as it is clear before a given draft that it's 1.16 OR that it's 1.18 and hence "blacklisted" the biggest advantage is that no one is required to craft a draft last minute and try hard to have it done by the time of the draft. and I'd tend to say, as far as monitoring and grandfathering-ruling-bing-bing is concerned, the sooner the better... however, as i said, im fine either way. |
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| jetsniper | Jun 18 2011, 02:31 PM Post #8 |
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For Asgard!
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Nah, I know you're not debating. Some extra time for everyone to get used to the changes would be beneficial I think. Plus I'd like for this to be a full 1.18 season. We're not rushed for the draft yet, I was doing some planning the other day and I figure it won't be until mid September. The last possible playoff game I believe would be on August 24th. So I'm not that concerned about the draft, I only brought it up the other day to avoid what I had to do last February. That was brutal. |
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| dlbalr | Jun 18 2011, 04:04 PM Post #9 |
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My one main concern is that this basically devalues draft picks relative to the strength of the league now. For the rebuilding teams, this could be devastating as now Marek Homza-type players become a key part of the future? Sure, perhaps their true intended value will come to life once most of the current players retire but we're talking what, 15 seasons from now for some of the more recent picks to retire? Yes, there's the opportunity for random boosts but with half the league vacant at the present time, those players likely won't be signed, extending what already is starting to become a notable gap between the filled and unfilled teams. I don't think a switch in game version is really necessary here, just allow teams to actively control a 2nd team (those that want to) and start propping those squads up. That should attract more GM's before a long-term plan to make this player file more like other leagues does. As for making it easier to do the drafts in terms of not having to create the players manually, I remember Tony years ago had sent me the framework of an Excel based file that would generate players. I only saw the framework and I'm not sure it ever came to life, but if it did, could that perhaps be part of the solution to make the drafts simpler for Jets, House, whoever's helping out? I also know there's a draft class generator file on fhockey; though I don't get a whole lot of it since I don't know how to read the players.ehm file, apparently it works quite well and is fully customizable. We've been down this road before (this 1.16/1.18 discussion) and as we're seeing once again, the support for this is limited as evidenced by only a couple really posting in support. I get that the goal is to try and attract more GM's to the league but I'd rather see GM's control 2 teams than make a shift that probably won't have any real effect for many, many years to come given past draft classes. |
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| JoeLassister | Jun 18 2011, 04:22 PM Post #10 |
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The Atlantic Owner
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Probably cuz others , like me, never played 1.16 so are not really aware of what would happen. Just want to say that I'll follow in 1.16 just as much as I'd stay in 1.18. |
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| dlbalr | Jun 18 2011, 04:34 PM Post #11 |
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I only have 1.16 myself, when I play seasons offline I've seen some of these differences in play. Streamer has explained this quite succinctly actually. |
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| jetsniper | Jun 18 2011, 05:13 PM Post #12 |
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For Asgard!
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Pretty much this. This is most peoples first EHM league so most around here haven't played in a 1.16 league. I've only been in one but it wasn't for very long. Anyway, this isn't really a discussion since it was supposed to be implemented close to a year ago, we're just getting around to it now. Trying to attract GMs was never one of the reasons (and even now I think it will have a minimal impact). But the benefits to simming are so great that I've been for this for a really long time. I wouldn't really judge support by response either, just about anything lately only gets a couple posts in response. Edited by jetsniper, Jun 18 2011, 05:15 PM.
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| dlbalr | Jun 18 2011, 05:32 PM Post #13 |
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It was? This is news to me (sadly searching for 1.16 yields no results in case I just missed the note that said it was a done deal) and certainly would've changed my trading strategy over that time span. I'm sure I'm not the only one there either. This is more significant a change than most people realize; as much as Streamer did a good job explaining it as someone who knows a little of the background, for those who don't, it'll need to be simplified with regards to exactly what needs to be done (such as signing at 18/19 for boost attempts). I'd hope that any sort of further announcements are clearer in terms of when it will actually be implemented and what the effects are. Otherwise, I suspect there may be a lot of confusion when the draft class comes out. ![]() Good point on the lack of discussion presently though, I was thinking more back to the days on the old board where it came up from time to time. |
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| jetsniper | Jun 18 2011, 05:40 PM Post #14 |
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For Asgard!
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It was at the draft last August. I was going to make the switch to 1.16 but stream needed to make the guidelines for everyone to follow before we could continue which he never did, that's why there was never an actual topic. http://s11.zetaboards.com/HWL3/topic/868485/ Pages 7-9 are all on the switch |
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| dlbalr | Jun 18 2011, 05:48 PM Post #15 |
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That was 2 drafts ago, a lot has happened since then obviously. Even then, there's no real announcement saying that it was for sure going to happen at some point. That's what I was referring to when I said I had no idea it was official; until now, I assumed this was up for discussion. Look, it's certainly not the end of the world (heck, I've got enough present and future depth to probably be least affected by this anyway) but I personally would have preferred something a little more definitive than hypothetical speculation/debate from 2 seasons ago serving as notice of a change. |
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