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| Chat - Saturday, March 17, 2012; Happy St. Patrick's Day | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 17 2012, 04:17 AM (504 Views) | |
| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 08:35 AM Post #16 |
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Eagle Guardian
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Penny, We really need it to rain all weekend, but this rain is nice the trees are starting to turn green with new leaves. I can't believe it will be spring in 3 days. I  Italian foods.   I'm ordering my breads for the baby shower from; I COOK YOU EAT OJAI Ben DiGregorio's About Ben DiGregorio "I come from a family of bakers and cooks, originating in Sicily. I worked with my father for many years in the family baking business in Brooklyn, NY, where he taught me the complexities of yeast-raised dough, sour-doughs, Danish, coffee cakes, puff paste, choux paste, etc., as well as an array of Italian, French and other European breads." Click to check out his website. 
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| Deleted User | Mar 17 2012, 08:35 AM Post #17 |
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 GOOD MORNING HAPPY ST PATRICK'S DAY! CAROLE - PENNY - TOPA - AND FROM YESTERDAY FandyCatnip - Carole - Penny - Topa - Kris - HeatherM - KLJinOZ - Elaine Ruth - FancyCatnip - Hope you feel better! Carole - You Lucked out to see the sandhill lay an egg ! Topa - What fun to have a baby shower! Happy for Rachel and John! Cute idea to decorate onesies. Penny - OH! That Pa Norfolk!! Phoebe sure is a busy one!! Kris - That fence looks ingenious KLJinOZ - So funny your kitty in the sink! ElaineRuth - Good luck to Dawson, that he will be successful! And petey too! Sunny and warm here today. HOpe I can get an outfit for the wedding that will please my daughter. |
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 08:38 AM Post #18 |
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Hi Sunnyland.  
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 08:41 AM Post #19 |
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Me too. 
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| Artsy Mom | Mar 17 2012, 09:00 AM Post #20 |
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I just found this today for anyone who is interested... Here is a link to Ed Clarks extensive post on the USFWS decision to grant the permits to the Arapaho's to kill two  His position may surprise you, it did for me, and so will some of the very interesting comments others have left.
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 09:05 AM Post #21 |
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Look who's back on this rainy lazy day. 
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 09:18 AM Post #22 |
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Eagle Guardian
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Thanks Artsy, I still have a difficult time excepting this. Why does the tribe have to kill something they worship? And it's a blessing for something to die? I don't think the Christians and Jews are still sacrificing lambs in any ceremonies in their religious practices of today. We're not living in the dark ages. I doubt "by allowing a very limited take to occur through permit, the motivation for illegal and unregulated killing of eagles will be reduced." I personally think it just perpetuates more killing. There are many good comments in the FB post from Ed against the tribe having the right to kill two BAEA. Ed said " Tread Lightly" Well, Killing, It's not in my religion. I've always held Native Americans on a pedestal for honoring wildlife. I've read that many Native Americans were our first farmers, planting corn and apple trees. This belief that they are the hunter culture is not completely true. |
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 09:20 AM Post #23 |
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I love your Sandhill crane shot Carole. |
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| Naturegal | Mar 17 2012, 10:20 AM Post #24 |
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Me three
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| Naturegal | Mar 17 2012, 10:22 AM Post #25 |
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Penny - Ed Clark's article is eloquently written and does give one "Food for Thought" but I still worry about the many religious fanatics out there that may take advantage of killing helpless animals and birds if this native practice is condoned. Eagle graphic snagged, thanks!  |
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 01:13 PM Post #26 |
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Eagle Guardian
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Maybe I will post this on Ed's FB page. He might be worried about judging the most highly persecuted group in history. But I think he is stereotyping Native Americans and his information is inaccurate. He is romanticizing killing. We speak with Dr. Rita Laws. Rita Laws is Choctaw and Cherokee. She lives and writes in Oklahoma. Her Choctaw name, Hina Hanta, means Bright Path of Peace. Dr. Laws, will provide a historical analysis of hunting and colonialism, along with an examination of some Native American traditional views on non-human animals. By Rita Laws, Ph.D. How well we know the stereotype of the rugged Plains Indian: killer of buffalo, dressed in quill-decorated buckskin, elaborately feathered eaddress, and leather moccasins, living in an animal skin teepee, master of the dog and horse, and stranger to vegetables. But this lifestyle, once limited almost exclusively to the Apaches, flourished no more than a couple hundred years. It is not representative of most Native Americans of today or yesterday. Indeed, the "buffalo-as-lifestyle" phenomenon is a direct result of European influence, as we shall see. It is ironic that Indians are strongly associated with hunting and fishing when, in fact, "nearly half of all the plant foods grown in the world today were first cultivated by the American Indians, and were unknown elsewhere until the discovery of the Americas." Can you imagine Italian food without tomato paste, Ireland without white potatoes, or Hungarian goulash without paprika? All these foods have Indian origins. In fact modern day agriculture owes its heart and soul to Indian-taught methods of seed development, hybridization, planting, growing, irrigating, storing, utilizing and cooking. And the spirit of Squanto survives to this day. One example is a Peruvian government research station tucked away in a remote Amazon Indian village called Genaro Herrera. University trained botanists, agronomists and foresters work there, scientifically studying all the ways the local Indians grow and prepare food. They are also learning how to utilize forests without destroying them, and how to combat pests without chemicals. The trend that moved some North American Indian tribes away from plant food-based diets can be traced to Coronado, a sixteenth century Spanish explorer. Prior to his time, hunting was a hobby among most Indians, not a vocation. The Apaches were one of the few tribes who relied heavily on animal killing for survival. But it was not always so. Big celebrations such as Fall Festivals centered around the harvest, especially the gathering of the corn. The Choctaws are not the only ones who continue to dance the Corn Dance. A Cherokee legend describes humans, plants, and animals as having lived in the beginning in "equality and mutual helpfulness". For example, the Osage, Pawnee, Arikaras, Mandans, Wichitas, and Caddoans remained in permanent farming settlements. Even surrounded by buffalo, they built their homes of timber and earth. And among some of the Indians of the Southwest, cotton, basketry, and pottery were preferred over animal-based substitutes like leather pouches. Corn is so important to us it is considered divine. Our corn legend says that is was a gift from Hashtali, the Great Spirit. Corn was given in gratitude because Choctaws had fed the daughter of the Great Spirit when she was hungry. (Hashtali is literally "Noon Day Sun". Choctaws believe the Great Spirit resides within the sun, for it is the sun that allows the corn to grow!) We must again embrace our brothers and sisters, the animals, and "return to the corn" once and for all. |
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 01:40 PM Post #27 |
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I posted my letter on FB. |
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| ElaineRuth | Mar 17 2012, 01:40 PM Post #28 |
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Killing Eagles |
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| Topa Topa Hikers | Mar 17 2012, 02:05 PM Post #29 |
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No Comment. 
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| Artsy Mom | Mar 17 2012, 09:28 PM Post #30 |
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Topa I'm glad you posted that information on Ed's FB page. I know that in his position he has to 'be careful' how he couches his words, but I find this time I DO NOT agree with him either, and that's a first for me. Some of the commenters really had opposing views also. I also was surprised that the offer of two frozen eagles from Alaska was unacceptable to the Arapaho tribe because, I'm guessing, they weren't 'taken' by members of their own tribe. As I stated before, the Indigenous tribes of North America did not use large amounts of eagle feathers in ceremonial items such as fans and bustles or on costumes in early times. The plains Indians were following buffalo herds and quite nomadic so they had to be practical in their dress used housing (teepee's) that were easily transportable; unlike the Indians in the coastal rain forests who had more time to develop their arts because they settled in permanent villages living off plentiful fish and animals in their geographical area. The natives on the West Coast used shells and carved cedar items in their ceremonies and even though eagles were so plentiful in that area they did not have feathered headresses or outfits decorated with feathers. This whole 'ceremonial' use excuse is just that...an excuse  I don't think that Ed's analogy of other religious groups in ancient and modern times was very well thought out either...it smacked of racial overtones to me
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