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Debate: Constitution of the Independent Order-First Amendment
Topic Started: 19th January 2014 - 02:41 AM (441 Views)
Elpidia
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The Rt. Hon.
I hereby open debate on the following bill. The debate will last until at least Jan. 25th, 2013 (9:40pm EST), unless closed earlier by majority vote.

Quote:
 
Constitutional Amendment Act (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Amendments

(1)The following section shall be added after section (5):

“(6)The Grand Chancellor shall have the right, with the advice and consent of the Premier and Senate, to delegate any power or authority, vested in Grand Chancellor to a devolved body or other member.”

(2)The following sections shall be added and/or amended after section (9):
“(10)To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order. If more than fifteen (15) members are nominated, or there are an even number of nominations, then elections shall take place using the Single Transferable Vote electoral system as defined by law.”

“(11)The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third(43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days. If there are both the required number of nominations, and an odd number of nominations, then the Senate term may commence on the forty-third(43rd) day.”

(3)The following section shall be added after section (16):
“(17)The Senate shall have the right to delegate any part of its legislative authority to a devolved body, excluding the ability to amend the Constitution or overturn a decision made by the Grand Chancellor.”

(4)The following sections shall be added/amended after section (20):
“(21)The term of the Premier shall be no less than forty-three (43) days, and no more than forty-seven (47) days. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate’s term, and elections for the Premier shall be held on the forty-third(43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days.”

“(22)The Premier shall be elected by the members of the Independent Order. If there are less than three candidates, a simple plurality system shall be used. If there are three or more candidates, then the Supplementary Vote electoral system shall be used, as defined by law. If there is only one nomination, then that member shall automatically become Premier without requiring elections.”

(5)The sections above shall be renumbered accordingly.

(6)All laws passed before the passage of this constitutional amendment, and not in conflict with the same, shall continue to be in effect.

(48)The amendment shall come into effect on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of the Senate’s term.
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Elpidia
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I'd like to suggest the following changes to grammar and style, understanding that CGJ was in a bit of a hurry when writing this. In addition to simply grammar and style, I removed the clause "All laws passed before the passage of this constitutional amendment, and not in conflict with the same, shall continue to be in effect." That is unnecessary in an amendment or law.

Quote:
 
Constitution - First Amendment (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Short Title

(1) This act may be cited as Constitution - First Amendment (2014)

Amendment

(2) The following section shall be added after section (5):

“(6)The Grand Chancellor shall have the right, with the advice and consent of the Premier and Senate, to delegate any power or authority, vested in Grand Chancellor to a devolved body or other member.”

(2)The following sections shall be added and/or amended after section (9):

“(10)To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order. If more than fifteen (15) members are nominated, or there are an even number of nominees, then elections shall take place using the Single Transferable Vote electoral system as defined by law.”

(11)The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third(43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days. If there are both the required number of nominations, and an odd number of nominations, then the Senate term may commence on the forty-third(43rd) day.”

(3)The following section shall be added after section (16):

“(17)The Senate shall have the right to delegate any part of its legislative authority to a devolved body, excluding the ability to amend the Constitution or overturn a decision made by the Grand Chancellor.”

(4)The following sections shall be added/amended after section (20):

“(21)The term of the Premier shall be no less than forty-three (43) days, and no more than forty-seven (47) days. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate’s term, and elections for the Premier shall be held on the forty-third(43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days.”

“(22)The Premier shall be elected by the members of the Independent Order. If there are less than three candidates, a simple plurality system shall be used. If there are three or more candidates, then the Supplementary Vote electoral system shall be used, as defined by law. If there is only one nominee, then that member shall automatically become Premier without requiring elections.”

(5)The remaining numbering in the Constitution shall be adjusted accordingly.

(6)This amendment shall come into effect on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of the current Senate’s term.



Now I'd like to address a few personal concerns with the amendment. I'd like to establish a permanent number of Senators, rather than continue with what happened in this election. I suggest 5 or 7.

Next, I don't support any other election method than plurality at this point. Especially with so few voting members.

I'd also like to have the Senate and Premier terms be absolutely simultaneous, with no possibility of going out of sync.
Edited by Elpidia, 19th January 2014 - 02:55 AM.
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CGJ
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Thank you for the amendments Elpidia. May I respond directly to each concern:
1) I agree completely.
2) Plurality is all well and good until you need to elect X amount of people and only have one vote each. STV just means that voters can rank candidates in order of preference. I would be willing to accept simple plurality for Premier elections, though.
3) Senate and Premier terms should always be in sync, that's what the system is designed to do. Although it should probably be added that Senate terms can last a minimum of 43 days and a maximum of 47. I haven't worked out the exact mathematics on this one, again I'll work it out in the morning.
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Elpidia
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Edited by Elpidia, 19th January 2014 - 03:31 AM.
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Elpidia
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CGJ
19th January 2014 - 03:17 AM
Thank you for the amendments Elpidia. May I respond directly to each concern:
1) I agree completely.
2) Plurality is all well and good until you need to elect X amount of people and only have one vote each. STV just means that voters can rank candidates in order of preference. I would be willing to accept simple plurality for Premier elections, though.
3) Senate and Premier terms should always be in sync, that's what the system is designed to do. Although it should probably be added that Senate terms can last a minimum of 43 days and a maximum of 47. I haven't worked out the exact mathematics on this one, again I'll work it out in the morning.


2 Perhaps if we limit the number of candidates we can give people that number of votes, ie 5 Senators 5 votes.

3 Great, I guess I misunderstood. Although if we follow the current wording strictly, I don't think there should be any problems. The only reason we had a bit of an issue is that Bruth ended the elections early for Senate, but that's taken care of, we just don't need to do it again.
Edited by Elpidia, 19th January 2014 - 03:31 AM.
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Chernobereg
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I can't see any difficulties with the proposed amendment. Consider me supported.
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Tytor
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I personally believe that seven would be a good permanent number for senators, and I'd like to suggest an alteration to the current proposal to incorporate such a permanent number.
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CGJ
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I have made a few changed to the Bill, and have highlighted them:

Quote:
 
Constitutional Amendment Act (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Amendments

(1)The following section shall be added after section (5):

“(6)The Grand Chancellor shall have the right, with the advice and consent of the Premier and Senate, to delegate any power or authority, vested in Grand Chancellor to a devolved body or other member.”

(2)The following sections shall be added and/or amended after section (8):
"(9)The Senate shall be made up of no more than seven (7) members, as determined by law."

“(10)To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order."

“(11)The term of the Senate shall be no less than forty-three days, and no more than forty-five (45) days. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third(43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days."

"(12)If there are seven (7) or less nominated members, then the new Senate term may commence on the forty-third(43rd) day. If there are more than seven (7) nominated members then elections shall take place using the Single Transferable Vote electoral system, as defined by law.

(3)The following section shall be added after section (16):
“(17)The Senate shall have the right to delegate any part of its legislative authority to a devolved body, excluding the ability to amend the Constitution or overturn a decision made by the Grand Chancellor.”

(4)The following sections shall be added/amended after section (20):
“(21)The term of the Premier shall be no less than forty-three (43) days, and no more than forty-seven (47) days. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate’s term, and elections for the Premier shall be held on the forty-third (43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days.”

“(22)The Premier shall be elected by the members of the Independent Order. If there is only a single candidate, then he/she will become Premier on the forty-third (43rd) day. If there are two candidates, then a simple plurality electoral system shall be used. If there are more than two candidates, then the Supplementary Vote electoral system shall be used, as defined by law.”

(5)The sections above shall be renumbered accordingly.

(6)The amendment shall come into effect on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of the Senate’s term.


May I also add here that, specifically referencing (3), that this will enable the Senate to establish another body (like a People's Assembly), without needing to amend the constitution.
Edited by CGJ, 19th January 2014 - 08:24 PM.
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Elpidia
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While I like the rest of the bill very much, I don't understand the need to add "No less than 43 no more than 47". I don't see the need to allow Senate and Premier terms to begin on the 43rd day, I think it adds a lot of confusion just to give the candidate two more days.

Also, we don't need to amend the constitution to change the number of Senators. The Senate already has the power to determine the number of Senators, as long as it's an odd number between 5-15. We should introduce a separate piece of legislation for that.

May I suggest the following? This revision allows the Grand Chancellor to end an election early, but the Senators-elect don't assume office till after the outgoing Senate's term.

Quote:
 
Constitutional Amendment Act (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Amendments

(1)The following section shall be added after section (5):

“(6)The Grand Chancellor shall have the right, with the advice and consent of the Premier and Senate, to delegate any power or authority, vested in Grand Chancellor to a devolved body or other member.”

(2)The following section shall be added after section (9):

“(9)To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order."

(3) The following section shall be added after Section (10):

"(12)If there are more nominated members than the total number of Senate seats available, then elections shall take place using the Single Transferable Vote electoral system, as defined by law.

(13)If there are equal or fewer nominees than there are Senate seats available, the Grand Chancellor may dispense with elections. The Senators-elect shall assume office immediately after the forty-fifth (45th) day of the outgoing Senate's term.”

(3)The following section shall be added after section (16):

“(17)The Senate shall have the right to delegate any part of its legislative authority to a devolved body, excluding the ability to amend the Constitution or overturn a decision made by the Grand Chancellor.”

(4)The following sections shall be added after section (21):

“(22)If there is only a single candidate for Premier, then he/she will become Premier immediately after the forty-fifth (45th) day of the outgoing Premier's term. If there are two candidates, then a simple plurality electoral system shall be used. If there are more than two candidates, then the Supplementary Vote electoral system shall be used, as defined by law.”

(5)The remaining sections shall be renumbered accordingly.

(6)The amendment shall come into effect on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of the current Senate’s term.
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CGJ
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I would support this version of the text, it works well. Will the section discussing the number of Senators be removed?
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Elpidia
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CGJ
19th January 2014 - 11:40 PM
I would support this version of the text, it works well. Will the section discussing the number of Senators be removed?
Do you mean in the original constitution? If so then no, that will remain.
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Great Jonathania
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My Vote:YAY!
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Tytor
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Two things:

First, it's "aye" or "yea", not "yay".
Second, this is not up for vote yet. We're still debating. When it moves into voting, a separate thread title "Voting: Constitution of the Independent Order-First Amendment" will be created. Feel free to vote then.
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His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
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Elpidia
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Edited to add in what I proposed as a second amendment, before CGJ smartly pointed out we could bundle them.

Quote:
 
Constitutional Amendment Act (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Amendments

(1)The following section shall be added after section (5):

“(6)The Grand Chancellor shall have the right, with the advice and consent of the Premier and Senate, to delegate any power or authority, vested in Grand Chancellor to a devolved body or other member.”

(2)The following section shall be added after section (9):

“(9)To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order."

(3) The following section shall be added after Section (10):

"(12)If there are more nominated members than the total number of Senate seats available, then elections shall take place using the Single Transferable Vote electoral system, as defined by law.

(13)If there are equal or fewer nominees than there are Senate seats available, the Grand Chancellor may dispense with elections. The Senators-elect shall assume office immediately after the forty-fifth (45th) day of the outgoing Senate's term.”

(4)Section (16) shall be amended thusly:

"(16)The Senate may may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds of its members, expel a member."

(5)The following section shall be added after section (16):

“(17)The Senate shall have the right to delegate any part of its legislative authority to a devolved body, excluding the ability to amend the Constitution or overturn a decision made by the Grand Chancellor.”

(6)The following sections shall be added after section (21):

“(22)If there is only a single candidate for Premier, then he/she will become Premier immediately after the forty-fifth (45th) day of the outgoing Premier's term. If there are two candidates, then a simple plurality electoral system shall be used. If there are more than two candidates, then the Supplementary Vote electoral system shall be used, as defined by law.”

(7)The remaining sections shall be renumbered accordingly.

(8)The amendment shall come into effect on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of the current Senate’s term.
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Elpidia
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So if there are no objections I motion for a vote.
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Chernobereg
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I agree to the motion that this be put to vote.
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Mavei
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Motioned, indeed.
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Tytor
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Chernobereg
21st January 2014 - 09:42 PM
I agree to the motion that this be put to vote.
I second this. The agreement, I mean.
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His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
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Non-partisan and proud of it

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theatom117
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I Second the mortion to move this to a vote.
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Elpidia
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With four seconds I declare the motion to vote to have passed, the vote will be posted momentarily.
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