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Debate: Constitutional Amendment Act – Fifth Amendment (2014); Senators Only
Topic Started: 19th April 2014 - 03:39 PM (1,061 Views)
Elpidia
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The Rt. Hon.
The following bill, proposed by Senator DaveIronside and Premier Beatrice, shall be up for debate at least until 4/22/14.

Quote:
 
Constitutional Amendment Act – Fifth Amendment (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Short Title

(1)This act may be referred to as the Constitutional Amendment Act – Fifth Amendment (2014).

Amendments

(2) Section (10) shall be amended thusly:

"(10) The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order and that they have made a minimum of six (6) posts in the forum. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third(43th) through the forty-fifth (45th) days."

(3) Section (22) shall be amended thusly:

"(22) To run for Premier, the candidate must be able to demonstrate that they have had a nation in The Independent Order and have taken an active role in the community for a period no less than forty-five (45) days. This requirement shall be fulfilled by a minimum of twenty (20) non-spam posts to the forums. Furthermore, Premier candidates shall be required to introduce themselves to the members of the Independent Order and take an active role in the conduct of their campaign beyond their initial nomination."
Edited by Elpidia, 30th April 2014 - 10:43 PM.
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CGJ
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Quote:
 
"(22) To run for Premier, the candidate must be able to demonstrate that they have had a nation in The Independent Order and have taken an active role in the community for a period no less than forty-five (45) days. This requirement shall be fulfilled by a minimum of twenty (20) non-spam posts to the forums. Furthermore, Premier candidates shall be required to introduce themselves to the members of the Independent Order and take an active role in the conduct of their campaign beyond their initial nomination."


I support this in principle, but my only concern is how one would enforce the latter part of the rule? I think it may require a clearer definition.

Quote:
 
The following bill, proposed by Senator DaveIronside, shall be up for debate at least until 4/22/14.


Just to add here that the merged version is by both DaveIronside and Beatrice (*cough* and edited by CGJ *cough*) :P
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
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DaveIronside
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In terms of "take an active role in the conduct of their campaign beyond their initial nomination". We could say that means they post a statement of some kind about what they would do if elected, kind of like a manifesto.
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Elpidia
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CGJ
20th April 2014 - 07:44 PM
Just to add here that the merged version is by both DaveIronside and Beatrice (*cough* and edited by CGJ *cough*) :P
Thank you Senator ^_^
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CGJ
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DaveIronside
20th April 2014 - 07:52 PM
In terms of "take an active role in the conduct of their campaign beyond their initial nomination". We could say that means they post a statement of some kind about what they would do if elected, kind of like a manifesto.
Perhaps:

Quote:
 
"(22) To run for Premier, the candidate must be able to demonstrate that they have had a nation in The Independent Order and have taken an active role in the community for a period no less than forty-five (45) days. This requirement shall be fulfilled by a minimum of twenty (20) non-spam posts to the forums. Furthermore, Premier candidates shall be required to create a separate topic introducing themselves to the members of the Independent Order and respond to any questions or queries by Independent Order members."
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
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DaveIronside
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
That'd work for me.
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Elpidia
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The Rt. Hon.
"Any questions or queries"? Seems a bit lax, perhaps we should require the GC to hold a debate of sorts using questions submitted by the public, and allow him to filter out frivolous questions.
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Elpidia
21st April 2014 - 12:29 AM
"Any questions or queries"? Seems a bit lax, perhaps we should require the GC to hold a debate of sorts using questions submitted by the public, and allow him to filter out frivolous questions.
Perhaps we should just remove that last part altogether? But the GC (or other non-standing member) holding debates sounds like a good idea.
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
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Elpidia
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The Rt. Hon.
On second thought it could be hilarious. Perhaps we should leave it in :P
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
"Mr Potential Premier, what would you prefer to have on your toast: Olive Oil or hand sanitiser?"
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Beatrice
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Glad to see this up for debate!

I think the proposals which answer the initial shortcomings of the requirements are good, and agree that we should leave it as-is. I mean, you can tell a lot about a person from their sense of humour, and frivolous questions which catch someone off-guard can offer honest, naked moments which wouldn't be entirely possible with 'sterile' questions.
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Elpidia
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Well, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree Madame Premier. I was being facetious in suggesting that it be left as is. Obviously candidates should not be required to answer any question.
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Beatrice
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Either way I encourage people to be creative in their questions to gain as great an understanding as they can of the candidates before them, although the questions should indeed be within reason. ^^
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CGJ
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I find myself sitting on the fence here: while I would support a candidate being required to answer questions, ho does one judge it? By the number of question marks?

What if someone decides? To structure? Their bloody sentence? Like this? :D

Perhaps:

Quote:
 
"(22) To run for Premier, the candidate must be able to demonstrate that they have had a nation in The Independent Order and have taken an active role in the community for a period no less than forty-five (45) days. This requirement shall be fulfilled by a minimum of twenty (20) non-spam posts to the forums. Furthermore, Premier candidates shall be required to create a separate topic introducing themselves to the members of the Independent Order and be willing to respond to questions regarding or relating to their campaign or work within the region."
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

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The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
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Elpidia
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What about state secrets?
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CGJ
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Elpidia
21st April 2014 - 11:07 PM
What about state secrets?
A willingness to respond does not equate to the direct answering of a question :)
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Elpidia
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CGJ
21st April 2014 - 11:28 PM
Elpidia
21st April 2014 - 11:07 PM
What about state secrets?
A willingness to respond does not equate to the direct answering of a question :)
;) Gotcha. Although I've always wanted to not answer a question due to "state secrets."
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CGJ
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Elpidia
21st April 2014 - 11:40 PM
CGJ
21st April 2014 - 11:28 PM
Elpidia
21st April 2014 - 11:07 PM
What about state secrets?
A willingness to respond does not equate to the direct answering of a question :)
;) Gotcha. Although I've always wanted to not answer a question due to "state secrets."
Just brush it off lightly. "We can neither confirm nor deny whether we have nuclear weapons. Or that."
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Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Dijel
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Are we talking about a public questioning or a formal debate with other runners for Premier? Maybe a formal debate, with questions from a neutral host, could be easier to enforce - you could require at least one post in the debate to get a candidate's name on the ballot paper (unless they provide a legitimate reason i.e. they're on LOA at the time).

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DaveIronside
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My worry is that if we start insisting on things like debates etc and then having to check on various forums it makes the administration of the nominations tougher for Avakael to sort out for the elections. I agree we need some measure of ensuring that the person is active but it should be something simple. How about we simply PM someone (lets for this example say the speaker) and then the speaker posts a list of questions the region want answering. The people wishing to stand then have a set time period to post replies to them (we could maybe say they have to answer 25% of the questions asked)
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Since nobody has spoken here for a long time...I beg to move that this Bill be taken to a vote.
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Tytor
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Before that happens, I wish to point out the following mistake:
Quote:
 
(2) Section (10) shall be amended thusly:

"(10) The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order and that they have made a minimum of six (6) posts in the forum. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third (43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days."
Correction underlined.
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His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

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Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
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CGJ
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Tytor
30th April 2014 - 11:13 PM
Before that happens, I wish to point out the following mistake:
Quote:
 
(2) Section (10) shall be amended thusly:

"(10) The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order and that they have made a minimum of six (6) posts in the forum. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third (43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days."
Correction underlined.
What would we do without you?
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
Vice Chancellor


Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
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Tytor
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I now second CGJ's motion, incorporating that one correction.
Edited by Tytor, 1st May 2014 - 04:12 PM.
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Tytor
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*Ahem*
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Dijel
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I vote aye.

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Elpidia
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Dijel
7th May 2014 - 08:26 PM
I vote aye.
We aren't at vote, CGJ has moved that the bill be put to vote, and it is awaiting seconds.
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Tytor
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Not to be rude or anything, but there is this too, you know.
Tytor
30th April 2014 - 11:13 PM
Before that happens, I wish to point out the following mistake:
Quote:
 
(2) Section (10) shall be amended thusly:

"(10) The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order and that they have made a minimum of six (6) posts in the forum. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third (43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days."
Correction underlined.
Edited by Tytor, 7th May 2014 - 09:50 PM.
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Elpidia
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The Rt. Hon.
Done.

Quote:
 
Constitutional Amendment Act – Fifth Amendment (2014)

An act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.

Short Title

(1)This act may be referred to as the Constitutional Amendment Act – Fifth Amendment (2014).

Amendments

(2) Section (10) shall be amended thusly:

"(10) The term of the Senate shall be forty-five (45) days. To run for the position of Senator, the candidate must demonstrate that they have a nation in The Independent Order and that they have made a minimum of six (6) posts in the forum. Nominations shall be opened on the thirty-ninth (39th) day of a Senate term, and elections for the Senate shall be held on the forty-third (43rd) through the forty-fifth (45th) days."

(3) Section (22) shall be amended thusly:

"(22) To run for Premier, the candidate must be able to demonstrate that they have had a nation in The Independent Order and have taken an active role in the community for a period no less than forty-five (45) days. This requirement shall be fulfilled by a minimum of twenty (20) non-spam posts to the forums. Furthermore, Premier candidates shall be required to introduce themselves to the members of the Independent Order and take an active role in the conduct of their campaign beyond their initial nomination."
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Beatrice
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I second the move to vote, for the version in post #29.
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
As do I.
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
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Tytor
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CGJ
8th May 2014 - 12:14 AM
As do I.
You can't second your own motion...
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Elpidia
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The Rt. Hon.
Tytor
8th May 2014 - 12:21 PM
CGJ
8th May 2014 - 12:14 AM
As do I.
You can't second your own motion...
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I count the original motion, CGJ, and the seconds by Tytor and Beatrice. That means two more seconds are necessary.
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DaveIronside
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
Good with me.
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Tytor
8th May 2014 - 12:21 PM
CGJ
8th May 2014 - 12:14 AM
As do I.
You can't second your own motion...
I treated Beatrice's post as a new motion, by bad :D
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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Dijel
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Do we have an 'official' system for seconding, or are y'all just making it up on the hoof?

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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Dijel
8th May 2014 - 04:22 PM
Do we have an 'official' system for seconding, or are y'all just making it up on the hoof?
Someone makes a motion, and a majority of Senators must second it in order for it to pass.
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
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Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

Submitted Legislation

The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Assuming the following members have effectively seconded the motion:
CGJ
Elpidia
Beatrice
Tytor
Dijel
DaveIronside

I will move this bill to a vote within the next 24 hours.
Posted ImageThe Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC
Vice Chancellor


Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.

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The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO).
Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention.
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May the force be with you.