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Debate: Treaty with the Rejected Realms (2015); Formerly titled "Potential Treaty"
Topic Started: 30th January 2015 - 08:15 PM (1,123 Views)
DaveIronside
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
In recent days the Privvy Council has been undertaking negotiations with The Rejected Realms regarding a treaty between our two regions. This is as a result of a relationship that was struck up during the World Fair.

The original treaty is included below.

Quote:
 


We the sovereign regions of The Rejected Realms and The Independent Order

ENCOURAGED by our correspondence at the NS World Fair III,

RECOGNISING the commons bonds between our two regions,

DESIRING to formalise relations and strengthen the bonds between our two regions,

CONFIRMING our commitment to independence and sovereignty,

UNDERSTANDING that formal relations would help foster a mutually beneficial, constructive diplomatic relationship,

HAVE AGREED as follows:

Article I - Sovereignty and Legitimacy

1 § The parties to this treaty recognize the government of each region, based upon its constitutions and laws, as legitimate, and will not extend that recognition to any government that comes to power through means not prescribed by law, which shall be determined by the legitimate government in question.

2 § Both signatories agree to recognize each other as sovereign entities with the sovereign authority to govern themselves.

Article II - Non-Aggression

1 § The signatories vow neither to attack the home region of the other party nor participate in any action with the intent to overthrow their legitimate government.

2 § The signatories will refrain from conspiring, either directly or through a third party, to destabilize or overthrow the legitimate government of either party.

3 § The signatories will refrain from conducting clandestine operations, espionage, or other forms of spying against either party.

4 § Both signatories will, in good faith, report any known threat or concern related to the other party's security, to the appropriate security organs.

Article III - Mutual Defense

1 § Both signatories agree to provide military aid to defend the security and sovereignty of the other party’s region. They will provide this military aid at the request of the other party, or if the signatory believes that a state of emergency exists in which the other party is unable to request military aid.

2 § Both signatories also agree to defend each others' delegacies in times of war.

3 § A signatory is always at liberty to refuse receiving military aid.

Article IV - Cultural, Military and Intelligence Cooperation

1 § Both signatories agree to promote cultural diffusion and exchange between their two regions, such as through interregional conferences, discussions, or ventures, at the discretion of their governments.

2 § Both signatories agree to miltiary cooperation on joint missions, as the discretion of their respective military commands.

3 § In pursuing cooperation in military operations, both signatories agree that participation on the opposite sides of a military engagement does not automatically constitute hostility or an attack on either signatory.

4 § Both signatories agree to provide intelligence information at the request of the other party, as long as this information does not harm their own security or jeopardize ongoing intelligence gathering operations.

5 § Both signatories are obliged to provide intelligence information to the other party if it refers to an immediate security concern to said signatory.

Article V - Diplomacy

1 § Both signatories shall maintain open embassies (in-game and out-of-game) with one another.

2 § This treaty shall be deposited in a publicly accessible area of the community forums of both parties.

Article VI. Suspension of Terms and Termination of the Treaty

1 § Either signatory may terminate the treaty with five days' notice, posted publicly in the forum of deposit in both regions, after which the terms of treaty are no longer binding on either party.

2 § Both signatories agree to attempt to seek a diplomatic solution before the termination of this treaty.


(Sadly I misplaced the coded version so its not nicely formatted.)

After negotiations we made the decisions to amend the Mutual Defence clause with something CGJ drew up which was

"Both signatories agree to provide military aid to defend the security and sovereignty of the other party’s region. They will provide this military aid at the request of the other party, or if the signatory believes that a state of emergency exists in which the other party is unable to request military aid, and if the signatory believes that the request comes following a first strike attack against the other party’s region."


The Privvy Council has therefore concluded that we would be happy to sign a Treaty but require the approval of the Senate.

I therefore wish to open this to debate and if people are happy a vote.
Edited by DaveIronside, 30th January 2015 - 08:28 PM.
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Cool101jr
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I completely agree with this and look forward to relations between the regions so Aye.
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Major_Thom
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I'm very happy with this. It improves our relationship without committing to anything too much - the exception being the mutual defence clause, but I think it has been worded well enough to prevent us being dragged into anything we don't really want a part of.
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James_Ed
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It looks very well written, aye
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Major_Thom
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I don't think that this has been brought to a vote yet, but I motion that it is
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DaveIronside
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Seconded
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Tytor
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Mm. As I don't know much about the politics of the Rejected Realms, I'm more inclined to be wary of entering into a treaty with them. What do we know about them?
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DaveIronside
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Essentially a region made up of nations made homeless, full of people who are more into socialisation aspect of the game, big numbers, very active, have lots of projects which see them running things we can tap into like carnivals, their members helped run World Fair etc.

I personally believe the treaty offers us some good oppurtunities to work with them on a few cultural things while giving us very little concern about issues like the military aspect. Their regions biggest concern is that they don't have a Ban/Eject button so are worried that at some point in the future someone may raid them but if tied into treaties that makes them more secure therefore less likely. We also have the treaty written so that if they instigate something we are not obliged to support them. Hope that helps.
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Tytor
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All right. I'll probably abstain from the vote when it comes down to it, but I'm not adamantly opposed to it either.
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DaveIronside
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Folks we could really do with moving forward with this sooner rather than later one way or another.
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Cool101jr
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I motion for it to go to a vote.
If it's already at that point then Aye.
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Tytor
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I think the correct phrase is something along the lines of "I second Major_Thom's earlier motion". Which brings the total number of seconds given to that motion to two (DaveIronside and Cool101jr). One more such second is required for the motion to carry, at which point I'll put this thing up for vote.

EDIT: I hope you don't mind, Dave, but I've pinned the topic and changed its name to something more formal.
Edited by Tytor, 3rd February 2015 - 10:16 PM.
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CGJ
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Also it may be worth amending the text Dave has provided in the quotes to include the amended defence clause?

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Achkaerin
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I could go into a legal rant on a technicality but I won't.

I second the motion for a vote.
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DaveIronside
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Ok, following amendments etc this is what we are voting for

Quote:
 

We the sovereign regions of The Rejected Realms and The Independent Order

ENCOURAGED by our correspondence at the NS World Fair III,

RECOGNISING the commons bonds between our two regions,

DESIRING to formalise relations and strengthen the bonds between our two regions,

UNDERSTANDING that formal relations would help foster a mutually beneficial, constructive diplomatic relationship,

HAVE AGREED as follows:

Article I - Sovereignty and Legitimacy

1 § The parties to this treaty recognize the government of each region, based upon its constitutions and laws, as legitimate, and will not extend that recognition to any government that comes to power through means not prescribed by law, which shall be determined by the legitimate government in question.

2 § Both signatories agree to recognize each other as sovereign entities with the sovereign authority to govern themselves.

Article II - Non-Aggression

1 § The signatories vow neither to attack the home region of the other party nor participate in any action with the intent to overthrow their legitimate government.

2 § The signatories will refrain from conspiring, either directly or through a third party, to destabilize or overthrow the legitimate government of either party.

3 § The signatories will refrain from conducting clandestine operations, espionage, or other forms of spying against either party.

4 § Both signatories will, in good faith, report any known threat or concern related to the other party's security, to the appropriate security organs.

Article III - Mutual Defense

1 § Both signatories agree to provide military aid to defend the security and sovereignty of the other party’s region. They will provide this military aid at the request of the other party, or if the signatory believes that a state of emergency exists in which the other party is unable to request military aid, and if the signatory believes that the request comes following a first strike attack against the other party’s region.which the other party is unable to request military aid.

2 § A signatory is always at liberty to refuse receiving military aid.

Article IV - Cultural, Military and Intelligence Cooperation

1 § Both signatories agree to promote cultural diffusion and exchange between their two regions, such as through interregional conferences, discussions, or ventures, at the discretion of their governments.

2 § Both signatories agree to miltiary cooperation on joint missions, as the discretion of their respective military commands.

3 § In pursuing cooperation in military operations, both signatories agree that participation on the opposite sides of a military engagement does not automatically constitute hostility or an attack on either signatory.

4 § Both signatories agree to provide intelligence information at the request of the other party, as long as this information does not harm their own security or jeopardize ongoing intelligence gathering operations.

5 § Both signatories are obliged to provide intelligence information to the other party if it refers to an immediate security concern to said signatory.

Article V - Diplomacy

1 § Both signatories shall maintain open embassies (in-game and out-of-game) with one another.

2 § This treaty shall be deposited in a publicly accessible area of the community forums of both parties.

Article VI. Suspension of Terms and Termination of the Treaty

1 § Either signatory may terminate the treaty with five days' notice, posted publicly in the forum of deposit in both regions, after which the terms of treaty are no longer binding on either party.

2 § Both signatories agree to attempt to seek a diplomatic solution before the termination of this treaty.



Sadly as I said I lost the code to the nicely formatted version but its the text that matters not how pretty it looks.
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Beatrice
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Mr. Speaker, if I may I wish to request a delay in bringing this Treaty to a vote.

It has come to my attention that there are some discrepancies in the wording between the versions of the Treaty our respective Legislatures are preparing to bring to a vote. We should ensure that the versions are in-line with each other before progressing further. I wish to highlight the following section:

Quote:
 
1 § Both signatories agree to provide military aid to defend the security and sovereignty of the other party’s region. They will provide this military aid at the request of the other party, or if the signatory believes that a state of emergency exists in which the other party is unable to request military aid, and if the signatory believes that the request comes following a first strike attack against the other party’s region.which the other party is unable to request military aid."


This should be amended to read:

Quote:
 
1 § Both signatories agree to provide military aid to defend the security and sovereignty of the other party’s region. They will provide this military aid at the request of the other party, or if the signatory believes that a state of emergency exists in which the other party is unable to request military aid, and if the signatory believes that the request comes following a first strike attack against the other party’s region."


Section 3.2 appears to be missing in the second posting of the Treaty in this topic:

Quote:
 
2 § Both signatories also agree to defend each others' delegacies in times of war.


Danke. ^^
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DaveIronside
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Good spot B I must have forgotten to copy and paste the relevant bit in. Thanks
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Beatrice
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Not a problem, Dave. ^^
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DaveIronside
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Please can senators get this moving
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Achkaerin
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I believe we have enough seconds for a vote to be put- so shall we have the vote?
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Tytor
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Right, so, with... hang on, let me count... three seconds, Thom's motion passes. Moving this to a vote.
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