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2016
Topic Started: 10th April 2015 - 02:01 AM (1,368 Views)
Great Jonathania
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So recently, in the past few weeks, several candidates have announced that they are running for the American Presidential office in 2016. For people living in the US, who would you like to see run?

Personally, I would like to see Rand Paul be nominated. I feel like he is able to stand up to media bias pretty well. His libertarian ideology I'd say is rather close to mine as well as many others who don't feel like either of the two major parties represent them perfectly. He is popular with both Republicans and even a decent number of Democrats as well due to his ideology that tends to combine certain values of both parties.

This is just my opinion. Who do you think would be a good candidate and President?
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CGJ
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Not from the US but...

*clears throat*

HILARY 2016!

Edit: Grr, page stretching!
Edited by Beatrice, 12th April 2015 - 03:41 AM.
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Gadshack
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Hilary is our only hope.
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Okay, i'm gonna go Wikipedia each Presidential candidate's political views as they come along.

First up, Rand Paul:

The pros:
- Accepts the Iraq War as a significant contributory factor to the unrest in the Middle East today
- Opposed to the NSA's mass surveillance
- Supports a Kurdish state

Cons:
- 100% 'pro-life'
- Anti-progressive tax
- Says same-sex marriage "offends myself and a lot of people"
- Received a 'perfect score' from the Gun Owners of America group
- Anti-mandatory vaccination
- Against any form of healthcare reform
- Supports 'money = free speech' and the awful state of American election financing
- Anti-foreign aid.

Conclusion: Wouldn't even consider voting for this guy.
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Beatrice
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The only Republican I would support for President is Colin Powell. It's a pity he was used by the Bush administration and then thrown under the bus, but that's politics I guess. Since it's unlikely we'll see Powell consider seeking the Presidency, it's also unlikely I'll support a Republican for President in this lifetime.

I would support Gore considering another run or, failing that, would support Hillary. I think Bill Clinton would make a fantastic First Gentleman, too. :P
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Great Jonathania
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The Bush administration was a pretty bad fail. I'll admit. I really don't like his presidency.
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Great Jonathania
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12th April 2015 - 12:20 AM
Okay, i'm gonna go Wikipedia each Presidential candidate's political views as they come along.

First up, Rand Paul:

The pros:
- Accepts the Iraq War as a significant contributory factor to the unrest in the Middle East today
- Opposed to the NSA's mass surveillance
- Supports a Kurdish state

Cons:
- 100% 'pro-life'
- Anti-progressive tax
- Says same-sex marriage "offends myself and a lot of people"
- Received a 'perfect score' from the Gun Owners of America group
- Anti-mandatory vaccination
- Against any form of healthcare reform
- Supports 'money = free speech' and the awful state of American election financing
- Anti-foreign aid.

Conclusion: Wouldn't even consider voting for this guy.
It annoys me a lot that so many otherwise great candidates are anti gay marriage. I'll give you that. And anti-vaccination views are stupid. I think 100% pro-life is a bit much. I am pro-life, but even I follow the "brain-wave rule" instead of the "conception rule".
The thing about election financing is that, ironically, the biggest donors are unions, and the biggest receivers tend to be the Democratic Party and other Parties: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
And the thing about foreign aid. I saw some stuff about his opinion. While he dislikes foreign aid in general, his main concern as of now is just to stop funding certain nations that chant "Death to America".
Also, you left out another major pro: His views on marijuana, which he expresses pretty well here:
Edited by Great Jonathania, 12th April 2015 - 04:39 AM.
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CGJ
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My point wasn't about who is more responsible for financing, it was about financing as a whole. In UK general elections you can only spend a maximum of £19.5 million if you stand in all 650 constituencies (that's £30,000 per constituency). All parties combined in 2010 spent £31.1m. In contrast, US political parties spent $6,285,557,223 in 2012, that's about £4.3 billion. Or, putting it another way, in the 2010 general election, parties in the UK spent 99.3% less than what was spent in the 2012 US Congressional/Presidential election.

Funnily enough, there's a video called '7 Illegal Things To Do In A British Election', which really should be called '7 Reasons British Elections Are Better Than American Ones.'
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Gadshack
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Sorry but no Republicans, just no. As said before, Hilary is our only hope.
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She is, indeed.


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El Presidente
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Mhh... this 7 Illegal Things in British Elections video is really good. I can remember seeing one about the dangers of electronic voting from the same guy a while ago.

If I was forced to vote in an american election, I would find myself deeply depressed. "Uh, should I vote the far right party, or the right-conservative party?" Even if I would ignore the fact that both parties don't represent my political orientation (I guess all americans are the same in these matters, since melting pot and red scares and what not?) I couldn't even really vote for any oppositional party to protest against the major ones, because they are so insignificant. (Are other parties even allowed for voting these days? I heard there was one independent guy in one of the chambers a few years ago.) And on top of that with all the gerrymandering and the really, REALLY fucked up voting system I couldn't even be sure if my vote counts at all, or even for the party I voted for.
Edited by El Presidente, 14th April 2015 - 11:45 AM.
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Ndambia
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Well, US presidential elections are decided in a few states anyway, isn't it? So it's not very different if you're a Democrat in a super-Republican state, or a Republican in a super-Democrat state, I suppose. Personally, I don't like majority system like the US or British ones. It does not look fair to me that one party could obtain a million of votes and still have no representation in the parliament. Still, I found interesting some of the laws of that video (specially the third one, considering that our ruling party does not even openly deny that used illegal funding for elections in the last decade or so).


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Tytor
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Gosh, practically everyone in this region is either left-wing, highly cynical, or both. I personally would prefer a Republican, but even I'd vote for Mrs. Clinton over some of the jerks the party's got to offer.
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Great Jonathania
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Some Republicans running this time are exceptionally bad, I'll admit.
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Gadshack
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Voting system is Shite anyway, not like you can depend on your voice truly being heard anyway.

Yes, this region is too left-wing for my taste :P though I don't like the right any much more either, but if I had to choose to sit next to one of them...I'd choose the left guy,
Edited by Gadshack, 15th April 2015 - 11:40 PM.
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Tytor
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Case in point.
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hobbes
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old thread but worthy of bump for this:

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MikeRaven
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I like Bernie Sanders simply because he doesn't run attack ads. I don't agree 100% with his political doctrine, but that little thing stands out to me about him. (Or maybe I'm just weird.)
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CGJ
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Okay, I may as well analyse the policies of another Presidential candidate: Donald Trump

Advantages
- Seems to have...altered his views on abortion: now pro-choice except where it's lat
- Seems pretty liberal on drugs
- Has supported universal healthcare
- 14% one-off tax on the wealthy

Disadvantages
- Believing climate change is a hoax. Come on...only idiots and oil company executives hold this view
- Racist knob – 'Mexico & Latin America send us drugs, crime, and rapists'
- On top of that, he wants a Mexican-paid Berlin Wall. WAT?!
- Seems like he'd support war for oil
- 0% corporate tax rate? WHAT?! How would this end crony capitalism?!
- Support for capital punishment
- Too anti-union
- Way too pro-Israeli
- Pro-human rights in China, anti-human rights in USA?
- 35% import tax on the American border?
- Too pro-guns
- Believes marital rape does not exist
- Wants to increase spending on the US Military, while also reducing the deficit by billions? WHAT?!
- "USA is the greatest force for freedom world has ever known" hahahahahahaha
- HIS COMMENTS TOWARDS JOHN MCCAIN, JESUS H CHRIST
- Anti-humanitarian efforts

Have I missed anything?

Overall, I wouldn't vote for this guy even if the alternative was anal sex with a cactus.
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Gadshack
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CGJ
30th July 2015 - 09:43 PM
Okay, I may as well analyse the policies of another Presidential candidate: Donald Trump

Advantages
- Seems to have...altered his views on abortion: now pro-choice except where it's lat
- Seems pretty liberal on drugs
- Has supported universal healthcare
- 14% one-off tax on the wealthy

Disadvantages
- Believing climate change is a hoax. Come on...only idiots and oil company executives hold this view
- Racist knob – 'Mexico & Latin America send us drugs, crime, and rapists'
- On top of that, he wants a Mexican-paid Berlin Wall. WAT?!
- Seems like he'd support war for oil
- 0% corporate tax rate? WHAT?! How would this end crony capitalism?!
- Support for capital punishment
- Too anti-union
- Way too pro-Israeli
- Pro-human rights in China, anti-human rights in USA?
- 35% import tax on the American border?
- Too pro-guns
- Believes marital rape does not exist
- Wants to increase spending on the US Military, while also reducing the deficit by billions? WHAT?!
- "USA is the greatest force for freedom world has ever known" hahahahahahaha
- HIS COMMENTS TOWARDS JOHN MCCAIN, JESUS H CHRIST
- Anti-humanitarian efforts

Have I missed anything?

Overall, I wouldn't vote for this guy even if the alternative was anal sex with a cactus.
Not sure why you took your time to do this...
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CGJ
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It took me about 5 minutes. :)
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Gadshack
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Exactly, Donald Trump isn't worth that much xD
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Janus
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For me its Bernie Sanders all the way

America needs him.
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Tytor
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Luckily for the country, he is not likely at all to be nominated, let alone elected. Even better: neither is Trump.

The biggest challenge the Republican Party has right now is Trump's popularity and his intention to go third-party and try to split the vote when he doesn't get the nomination (when, not if). Meanwhile, their best hope is Sanders potentially doing the same thing. As I see it, next year's race will be either: a three-way between Jeb Bush, Mrs. Clinton, and Trump; or Jeb Bush, Mrs. Clinton, Trump, and Sanders. In the first case, Clinton will win; in the second, it could really be either Clinton or Bush.
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Gadshack
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R.I.P Tytor
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Janus
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Tytor, I respect your opinion and I'm going to be civil about this and not shove my opinion down your throat uwu
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CGJ
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Tytor
 
a three-way between Jeb Bush, Mrs. Clinton, and Trump


CGJ shudders
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Gadshack
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I hate when people already call elections, even if they don't agree with the result. Because what people are doing is facilitating an outcome for the future even though they don't agree with it because it becomes the 'most rational' outcome. Just vote the way you want to, not the way you think it will go.

That said, cool Tytor :P I disagree but respect it like Janus said.
Edited by Gadshack, 31st July 2015 - 12:49 AM.
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hobbes
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Tytor
31st July 2015 - 12:42 AM
Luckily for the country, he is not likely at all to be nominated, let alone elected. Even better: neither is Trump.

The biggest challenge the Republican Party has right now is Trump's popularity and his intention to go third-party and try to split the vote when he doesn't get the nomination (when, not if). Meanwhile, their best hope is Sanders potentially doing the same thing. As I see it, next year's race will be either: a three-way between Jeb Bush, Mrs. Clinton, and Trump; or Jeb Bush, Mrs. Clinton, Trump, and Sanders. In the first case, Clinton will win; in the second, it could really be either Clinton or Bush.
I honestly didin't expect this to work so soon :P

Quote:
 

Meanwhile, their best hope is Sanders potentially doing the same thing.

Sanders has said he has no intention of going 3rd party when/if he looses the primary because he recognizes the spoiler effect would be real.

If Sanders doesn't get the nod (I was originally a doubter but his numbers are really impressive for what you'd be expecting) he will push Hitlary & company to the left, which is good. Trump is so far beyond comprehensible at this point that he has no real chance of doing that on the Republican Clown car (to be honest it's more representative of a Bus at this point)
Edited by hobbes, 31st July 2015 - 12:53 AM.
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Hobbes is a spoil sport :(
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Janus
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quietly chants 'bernie bernie bernie'
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Gadshack
31st July 2015 - 12:49 AM
I hate when people already call elections, even if they don't agree with the result. Because what people are doing is facilitating an outcome for the future even though they don't agree with it because it becomes the 'most rational' outcome. Just vote the way you want to, not the way you think it will go.

That said, cool Tytor :P I disagree but respect it like Janus said.
I am a conservative. I intend to vote Republican, unless certain people are nominated (looking at you, Christie). As I see it, though, a third-party Trump would split the Republican vote, securing victory for quite literally anyone the Democrats nominate. I don't plan to get worked up over this, and I'm fine with the fact that my opinions are in the minority (especially on the internet). Unless Trump either sees sense or at least get shocked hard enough to bow out (both unlikely due to his... personality), I really don't think the Republican Party has much of a chance. I will most likely still be voting for them, though.

Oh, and before I forget: CGJ, I like your rundown on Trump. Many, many more cons than pros. Suits him well.
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His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

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Janus
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at least we all can agree Trump sucks
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hobbes
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Tytor
31st July 2015 - 01:04 AM
Gadshack
31st July 2015 - 12:49 AM
I hate when people already call elections, even if they don't agree with the result. Because what people are doing is facilitating an outcome for the future even though they don't agree with it because it becomes the 'most rational' outcome. Just vote the way you want to, not the way you think it will go.

That said, cool Tytor :P I disagree but respect it like Janus said.
I am a conservative. I intend to vote Republican, unless certain people are nominated (looking at you, Christie). As I see it, though, a third-party Trump would split the Republican vote, securing victory for quite literally anyone the Democrats nominate. I don't plan to get worked up over this, and I'm fine with the fact that my opinions are in the minority (especially on the internet). Unless Trump either sees sense or at least get shocked hard enough to bow out (both unlikely due to his... personality), I really don't think the Republican Party has much of a chance. I will most likely still be voting for them, though.

Oh, and before I forget: CGJ, I like your rundown on Trump. Many, many more cons than pros. Suits him well.
I'm more centrist leaning on many issues - particularly a fan of guns - but the reason I hate Hitlary is she just sways to the center so easilly.

It's established that a majority of Americans are pro choice, a majority of americans are for campaign reform, a majority are for banking reform (though unlikely because her #1 donor is the banks). I will happily say I am liberal leaning on many economic issues that face the nation and most (could be wrong but i remember seeing polling on this) americans are in favor of more liberal economic policies, particularly after the 2008 crash, so why Hillary is drifting center and even somewhat to the right on these issues is completely beyond me.

I don't want to see a Clinton or a Bush (though in hinesight Bill again would be cool if not unconstitutional - we needs us the sax playing POTUS back), and I am looking for a end to the career celebrity politics (We're lookin' at you, Trump) which is where my issues are.

I honestly could be down with Rand or maybe even Walker if the dems go for Hitlary, but as it stands this early in the campaign i can be optimistic about feeling the Bern.
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Tytor
31st July 2015 - 01:04 AM
Gadshack
31st July 2015 - 12:49 AM
I hate when people already call elections, even if they don't agree with the result. Because what people are doing is facilitating an outcome for the future even though they don't agree with it because it becomes the 'most rational' outcome. Just vote the way you want to, not the way you think it will go.

That said, cool Tytor :P I disagree but respect it like Janus said.
I am a conservative. I intend to vote Republican, unless certain people are nominated (looking at you, Christie). As I see it, though, a third-party Trump would split the Republican vote, securing victory for quite literally anyone the Democrats nominate. I don't plan to get worked up over this, and I'm fine with the fact that my opinions are in the minority (especially on the internet). Unless Trump either sees sense or at least get shocked hard enough to bow out (both unlikely due to his... personality), I really don't think the Republican Party has much of a chance. I will most likely still be voting for them, though.

Oh, and before I forget: CGJ, I like your rundown on Trump. Many, many more cons than pros. Suits him well.
Fair enough, i intend to do the same, well vote for who I actually intend to vote for instead of following a predetermined outcome. Due to my political leaning I'm quite excited for Sanders and think he's the best chance for the country, if not he'll push Clinton further and further left. And seeing that is gaining a large amount of popularity(even some conservative friends really like him) I'd say he can make a major impact.

This election will be very interesting, but we all agree Trump needs to f*** off, or at least continue to mess up Republican chances :P
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