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DEBATE - Condemnation of Achkaerin
Topic Started: 17th June 2015 - 02:18 PM (2,699 Views)
DaveIronside
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General Assembly Resolution


Resolution #0001

Adopted by the General Assembly on [Date]


The General Assembly,

Deeply Concerned at the use of direct military intervention by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin's within Nueva Ardia's Sovereign Borders, including the attack of military personnel by Holy Empire military personnel,

Concerned further at the attack of a civilian vessel by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin

Taking into account that such an attack is contrary to the Uppsala Convention,

1. Condemns these acts of terror by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin,

2. Orders the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to withdraw all military personnel and weaponry from Nueva Ardia,

3. Refers the actions of the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to the Convention Advisory Committee for the Uppsala Conventions,

4. Demands that the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin be prosecuted if found to be in breach of the Uppsala Convention by the Convention Advisory Committee.
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Ooc - May I suggest that Gadshack give us an ic opening statement to help bring those who have not followed Gran Cambio up to speed after which Ach be permitted to respond
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OOC- sounds like the best approach to me.
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The Nueva Ardian speaker took the stand, shuffling through papers and reports, handing around to assistants to pass to the various General Assembly delegations. He cleared his throat deeply before speaking, "Good Morning all, I am Ambassador Barosa representing the Principality of Nueva Ardia along with the rest of my staff sitting among you." he said, everyone with earpieces translating his foreign language in their dialect. "We are here today to convene on the troubling situation which has brought about the requested actions in Resolution #0001 in the General Assembly. As you will read in the reports, early morning of [date - timeline not fully established and the way time moves in the RP i'm not sure what day or month it is] Nueva Ardian Naval Command detected several abnormal pings in the Lacuna Strait, these were later written off when dissipated and monitored by a small team. These incidents happen all the time and Naval Command usually co-operates with the Coast Guard, who manages the intense sea trade traffic through the Matilda Canals and Lacuna Strait. However, later that morning Central Military command ordered the deployment of Special Forces to detain foreign agents who had infiltrated the country, Command was informed of this infiltration by local villagers and tribesmen who claimed to have a visual on agents who came into a cove North of Lacuna by jetski armed with weapons. Tribesmen who were recruited as army scouts tracked and followed them."

"After getting visual confirmation by deployed Army Conquistador scouts, the images put together gave us assurance that the VIP with the agents was Maki Hamer, the second child of Claudio Penultimo to long lost pretender to the throne. In a private meeting with Maki and Abran months earlier, it was clear that the two were opposed to eachother, though there are no official recording of the meeting Maki's current actions prove she wanted Abran Penultimo off the throne and wanted it for herself or her Half-sister Janelle Penultimo. After the group met Pelita Vasquez, the former Grand Chancellor and now leader of an insurgency that opposed Abran Penultimo. After the meeting, Pelita Vasquez was deceased though the cause of death is unknown. Nueva Ardian Special Forces dispatched to apprehend the group but Pelita's rebels supports the Achkaerinese Justicar's escape. The Conquistadors were overwhlemed and killed by rebels, supported by the Achkaerinese Special Forces operating in the area."

"Afterward, a South Hills Naval assets within the immediate area were relayed an explosion and the destruction of a civilian fishing vessel, Nueva Ardian command was also informed. The Achkserinese stealth vessel was being pinged and during a hasty escape the stealth vessel was sighted by South Hillian fighters who scrambled in the area. After the South Hills navy attempted to make contact with vessels, only to be met with the coy of a 'broken radio' Nueva Ardian naval forces rushed quickly to create a temporary blockade around the area to intercept and capture the speeding stealth vessel. However the vessel beat South Hills and Nueva Ardian vessels in the chase, safely escaping to Antares naval base in the sea of Kyne."

"Later that night, Justicars infiltrated Nueva Ardia again, their package being Maki Hamer. This time they were detected and led into an ambush at Abelle Palace to apprehend them. However royal guardsmen were too late to the scene and an un-identified shooter kille Abran Penultimo from within the Palace, leading us to believe it was an Achkaerinese backed rebel or a Justicar agent themself. Whether it was or not, these hostile soldiers infiltrated our country, killed our troops, sunk a civilian vessel and infiltrated a Head of State's residence. This is not only a massive violation in the Uppsala Convention but a declaration of war against the Nueva Ardian people. We call for these barbaric actions to be condemned, for the CTO and Uppsala Convention Advisory Committee to take action in assuring this rogue state does not get away with these obscene acts of terror."




OOC: to clarify not all of this if true, Gran Cambio will have more details
Edited by Gadshack, 17th June 2015 - 07:46 PM.
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Cheryl Holmes took a sip of water and then stood, this wasn't quite how she'd imagined her first speech to the General Assembly, normally such circumstances would be worrying but she was well armed for battle, the Nueva Ardians thought they'd called Achkaerin's bluff? Well they were in for a surprise.

"Let's deal with this one issue at a time shall we? Firstly the issue of infiltration, there's a difference between a military infiltration and accepting an invitation. Since the Nueva Ardian representative has brought up the matter of the meeting between Abran Penultimo and Maki Hamer perhaps he would also be advised to consider footage of that meeting that shows Abran effectively inviting Maki to talk with Pelita, thus implying a visit to Nueva Ardia, however considering implied threats made by Abran in the course of that conversation it was felt that more unconventional measures were required.

Now anyone who knows anything about the security measures Achkaerin takes in relation to royalty will know that we assign Justicars, and that it is the Justicars who are responsible for all aspects of that security including means of arrival, weapons precautions and degree of risk. Now considering recent events in Nueva Ardia at the time Maki Hamer was accompanied in search of Pelita Vasquez by four Justicars known as the Justicar Fox team, which brings us to the charge of murdering Pelita. Now anyone who knows anything about Justicars will know that they excel not just in the military field but the intelligence field as well therefore I present a visual and audio recording (continued here) of that meeting between Maki and Pelita which shows she committed suicide therefore that accusation is false. This recording was made by one of the Justicars for the purposes of review at a later time.

Now as for the Conquistadores I would ask how they died, I presume the Nueva Ardian authorities have conducted examinations and have as a result concluded gunshot wounds as cause of death despite logbooks from the time showing the only logged out Justicar weapons were five SG-1 stun guns, non lethal weapons that deliver an electrical discharge. We have satellite images from the time which we can overlay with our tracker displays to prove that our people were not responsible for the deaths of those soldiers.

The 'civilian' boat was not a civilian boat. It was a smuggling vessel that was used to traffic drugs, weapons, cigars and most notably a captured Maki Hamer, during the escape from the cave where the meeting with Pelita had taken place Maki became separated from the Justicars.

Now on this ship information was disclosed to Maki by a Nueva Ardian group called the Persuasion. They made Maki an offer of the throne, an offer that was refused, they also outlined a plan to remove Abran from power and replace him with Janelle Richardson or Maki, an operation they named Operation Cobalt. As for the actual sinking of that vessel, considering the situation which was at sea, in a hostage scenario and no knowledge of what might happen if only monitored the decision to act was logical, The ship was sunk but since it was not civilian or military operated but rather terrorist operated we would contend that it be regarded in the same manner as one would regard a pirate ship. Therefore the Uppsala Convention does not apply.

Now we come to the matter of Abran Penultimo's death, it would be pointless to deny that Maki and Justicars were there however the suggestion that Maki would seek his death is absurd as evidenced by this conversation following her rescue. There was clear intent to side with the late Prince and defeat the Persuasion. Now as for what actually happened satellite imaging shows a series of events that led to the explosion at Abelle Palace, we also have radio logs of that operation. Consider that this is one military operation we are admitting to, because the referenced logs and images give us a strong foundation to be there.

This is not a case of Achkaerin terrorism, the very thought of that is offensive considering Achkaerin's history of combating the likes of the Borlanders, the Enlightenment and now the Sorority. This is an opening, ill advised and ill thought out gamble of coup plottrs trying to retain some semblance of order and control in Nueva Ardia in the wake of losing their puppet which was the one thing that gave them legitimacy. Now they don't even have that, what they do have are four Achkaerin Justicars and an Achkaerin citizen who also happens to be a Princess and with Abran dead second in line to the throne. We demand the immediate release of Maki Hamer and should the Assembly find in our favor we demand the release of the four Justicars being held.

We will make available to the CTO all our cited evidence for independent verification as to its authenticity. The Holy Empire of Achkaerin once more refutes the Nueva Ardian allegations and levies the charges of terrorism, kidnapping Maki Hamer, attempted murder of Maki Hamer et al and the murder of Abran Penultimo at the Nueva Ardian government."



OOC- I'm hoping Gad is now going to give a brief OOC explanation of some factors so that there aren't any misconceptions.
Edited by Achkaerin, 17th June 2015 - 10:23 PM.
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now considering this, everything Ach is saying is mostly true, the only thing that is debatable is the fishing vessel and the fact that Achkaerin impeded on the situation and infiltrated the country without notice, coming off as rather hostile to Nueva Ardia. Now what Achkaerin did was highly illegal, they infiltrated a country with weapons and without their men wearing patches they are subject to being classified as spies which under Uppsala convention is totally cool to execute.

Definition of Armed Forces:
"A member of the Armed Forces is defined as someone who has received formal military training and is under the direct control of national government, they must be wearing a military uniform that consists of a recognition of rank, unit, nationality and section of the Armed Forces (E.g Must have rank slides, regimental emblem, nations flag or other recognised symbol and Army/Navy/AF emblem or words). This term applies to both voulenteers, conscripts and those undertaking national service." (ty Dave)

But while what Achkaerin did was highly illegal on so many levels breaking every international law in the book(over-exgeration a bit) everything they are saying holds a significant amount of truth and tangible evidence backed behind it.

So there are two sides, Achkaerin did something highly illegal but yet they have a significant amount of dirt on Nueva Ardia, yet Nueva Ardia's claim of what Achkaerin did such as infiltrate the country illegally with weapons and invade a Head of State's residence(Abelle Palace) is also valid.

BUT, I do not want people to base their decisions off of OOC interpretations, while the answer may be clear OOC'ly with everything explained IC'ly your characters are not superhumans who can predict the future so judge the situation realistic in a IC sense.
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"While there are many questions which must be answered concerning this situation the First Empire is wholly opposed to a CTO condemnation of the Holy Empire. As we've seen the present situation in Nueva Ardia is unstable, and with the statements made by the Achkaerin representative one must wonder whether the Nueva Ardian story is true, or if we're seeing the opening stages of a coup. Instead of a blind condemnation of the Holy Empire the First Empire would call for a CTO investigation of the situation to establish facts before determining a course of action. Until questions regarding the legitimacy of the present Nueva Ardian government are resolved any such motion should be viewed with an air of suspicion, as such measures could be used to cover the tracks of those parties responsible for the death of Prince Abran."

Stacey paused, "Let us all remember that the purpose of the CTO is to foster international cooperation and safeguard international peace and stability. A war between Nueva Ardia and Achkaerin benefits none involved, and would only undermine the present international situation. Until proof is presented against the present claims of Achkaerin the First Empire will be prepared to uphold its defense commitments to the Holy Empire. We do not welcome the prospect of conflict returning to Ardia yet again, and will do all in our power to work with the CTO to prevent such a conflict from breaking out, and to establish the legitimacy of the Nueva Ardian government, an element which Rokkenjima feels must be included in any action the General Assembly or Security Council takes in response to this situation."
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"While I agree with my colleague from Rokkenjima that there is more than meets the eye to this, let me please start by reminding everyone that a referendum held in Neuva Ardia showed that Abran enjoyed the support of the majority of his nation. In regards to this attempt to condemn Achkaerin I believe much more investigation needs to be carried out, however let us remember that even if they felt "unconventional measures" were necessary for Mako to visit Neuva Ardia they still entered the nation illegally, furthermore by carrying weapons of any nature it could be argued, depending on local laws, was smuggling of weapons. Regardless of the outcome of this resolution, the nation of Achkaerin face some difficult questions and legal barriers.

Might I propose therefore that we allow a CTO investigation to view all the evidence before making a decision about what is clearly a heavily worded resolution."
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"I would remind the East Moreland delegation that it is not illegal to enter a country when invited to do so and we have provided evidence showing that Abran was more than happy for Maki to meet Pelita which by implication is an acceptance for Maki to travel to Nueva Ardia, secondly last I checked there is no law stating that a person cannot enter a nation by jet ski if they so wish. Thirdly by suggesting smuggling of weapons you imply that it's unreasonable to assign an armed escort to a VIP in a hostile area, I highly doubt such a move is unreasonable.

I will also point out that the referendum is not relevant to this resolution the contention is not whether Abran's reign was legitimate or not but whether what is now happening in Nueva Ardia amounts to a coup or not."
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"Yes, Abran invited Maki, but that does not mean you can freely break in the country when you feel like it because you were invited? Abran was proposing formal arrangements as, at the time there were sourced and more safer connections to Pelita that Maki could have taken, yet instead decided to illegally break into the country armed. And it's not illegal to come in by jetski? Last time we checked these are armed government agents illegally smuggling a VIP into the country without consent or notice to the Nueva Ardian government, and weapons such as those are illegal in accordance to the national gun ban. Your actions are based off the superstition that Nueva Ardia is a jungle of instability and that the government is untrustworthy. Yet we are attacked again and again because a nation such as Rokkenjima sees this as a coup? And there is still no proof whatsoever that Achkaerin has presented that the fishing boat was partaking in terror operations. As it stands, it is a civilian ship."
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"Indeed, the issue of legitimacy does not stem from the referendum, but from the actions presently at play in Nueva Ardia. Of particular concern is 'Persuasion', which the Delegate from Achkaerin touched upon in her response to the allegations against her nation. These allegations cast serious doubt over any claims presently presented by the Nueva Ardian delegation against the Holy Empire, thus the First Empire's insistence upon an independent CTO investigation into the present situation before even considering a condemnation of Achkaerin's actions. It would be all too simple to place the blame upon Achkaerin to provide cover for domestic-based operations against the Nueva Ardian government," Stacey said, offering a conciliatory look to Cheryl Holmes.

"As we've seen from the past conduct of Achkaerin the Holy Empire is a nation which has contributed to international peace and stability, selflessly acting in cases such as Safraen. We have never known Achkaerin to act dishonourably, nor has Achkaerin proven itself to act in manners which contravene accepted international norms and conventions. Thus, if this were a situation of one nations word versus the other the reputation of the Holy Empire certainly precedes itself, whereas Nueva Ardia has been mired in controversy, including a deployment of forces to Marseilles without sanction. We would urge our colleagues in the General Assembly to ask questions and consider these facts before making their decision."
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"Verover is a nation that understands the power of dictators and the issues that come with them. We also know that international support of one side or the other can make both sides even more passionate and violent towards each other. For these reasons, The Republic of Verover will not become involved in this debate and choose a side. We will support the side that is not committing violations to human rights, breaking international law, and is in support of a democratic election to see who/what should be the rightful choice of government for Nueva Ardia. The Republic of Verover will also support a trial for any violations to international law, by any side, if it is needed."
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"This is a matter that I believe does not require much attention from the General Assembly, the facts are simple enough to establish. Despite the Achkaerin delegation stating ""that it is not illegal to enter a country when invited to do so" there are protocols to go through, passports to be presented, visa's to be stamped etc. I suspect if an ordinary citizen of my nation jet skied into Neuva Ardia, even if invited, we'd expect them to be put on trial and deported. Therefore might I suggest we simply allow the Neueva Ardian judicial system to deal with those who have illegally entered the nation, in accordance with the MCUR and Uppsala convention protocols."
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Abran was proposing formal arrangements as, at the time there were sourced and more safer connections to Pelita that Maki could have taken


"I would like to point out that that this is not viable evidence as it stands since Abran Penultimo is now dead he cannot testify to that, second any written evidence of this would be suspect and ultimately dodgy, third any attempt to orally testify to this would be third party reporting and therefore hearsay. The only way witness testimony to this would be admissible is if Nueva Ardia produces Maki Hamer before a court, something that they won't dare do because it would dramatically backfire on them."

"Also let us consider that until there is clarity on the Nueva Ardian state the whole state is arguably compromised including the judicial system. Secondly under Uppsala I would remind the UNP delegate that Nueva Ardia is not permitted to deal with an Uppsala case itself.

Nothing can change the facts and the facts are that the Nueva Ardia case is full of smoke and mirrors with no foundation, if Nueva Ardia insists that this proceeds to trial in the ICJ it will only end one way and that is with the Nueva Ardian state's embarrassment as their protective cloak is ripped away.

Now if Nueva Ardia wishes to proceed with this then may I suggest the General Assembly hurries up and confirms the judge's bench of the ICJ."
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" I think we're jumping the gun a bit, there is enough in terms of Neuva Ardia's own criminal system to prosecute these men and women through their own system for crimes such as illegal entry, illegal possession of a firearm, espionage etc. These things do not require a ICJ or Uppsala court, and in terms of espionage could carry the death penalty for the Justicars held in captivity. I would think that rather than rush to legal proceedings it would be best for Achkaerin to allow a peaceful resolution to be reached, and attempt to safe guard the lives of their people."
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"The Persuasion, on the record is best at psychological manipulation and counter-intelligence but are an agency that works for the interest of the crown in assuring the prosperity of the country, while there has been political upheavel, so far the country has been stable in other domestic issues since the fall of the Chancelleries' rule. We detest that The Persuasion told anything to Maki of truth and that Pelita Vasquez was a woman crushed under the defeat of her regime and measly rebellion, there is proof that Pelita'a past regime was corrupt and did everything in it's power to manipulate Nueva Ardia's system to for personal profit and gain. Yet, we cannot even be too sure as to if The Persuasion exist, in fact both sides of the argument only have words but no proof that such an organization exist. Even with this operation cobalt, it's hardly enough for evidence, it's just a recording that we truly don't know the authenticity of and unlike Rokkenjima, Nueva Ardia does not vest it's belief of a state in it's history or past reputation but facts. How do we not know the Achkaerinese delegation is not manipulating this council so their reputation is not fouled, any world power would do it if it cost them any kind of credibility on the world stage."
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"I would remind the Nueva Ardian delegate that the onus is not on Achkaerin to prove anything in this matter. Nueva Ardia has to prove their accusations and right now they aren't doing that." Cheryl said "Now let's talk facts

1) It cannot be proven that entry into Nueva Ardia was illegal, firstly we have provided the evidence indicating that Abran extended the invitation to Maki to visit Nueva Ardia, the method of arrival is also not illegal, unusual but not illegal, therefore this does not constitute illegal entry. Further it cannot be proven that Abran was planning a means for Maki and Pelita to meet for reasons I made clear earlier.

2) I'd like to see this Nueva Ardian law on weapons before proceeding to comment there.

3) Achkaerin's contention is that the fishing boat was not a civilian ship but a pirate ship as per the definition of piracy in the Fair Seas Concordat

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Article 101
Definition of piracy


Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of
depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the
passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:
(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or
against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

Article 103
Definition of a pirate ship or aircraft


A ship or aircraft is considered a pirate ship or aircraft if it is intended by
the persons in dominant control to be used for the purpose of committing one
of the acts referred to in article 101. The same applies if the ship or aircraft
has been used to commit any such act, so long as it remains under the control
of the persons guilty of that act.


4) Can Nueva Ardia prove that the Persuasion didn't tell Maki the truth? What evidence is there of that?

Now with the greatest of respect to the East Moreland delegation any attempt to try these people in Nueva Ardia will be met with an argument of right to fair trial under MCUR, a trial in Nueva Ardia will likely be a kangaroo court and therefore not a fair trial so this is a matter for the ICJ.

Additionally as I have previously stated Achkaerin will make available all its evidence for third party scrutiny[1]"
[1] OOC- and obviously this would be a formality since the evidence all of which was gathered in Gran Cambio hasn't been tampered with and is therefore authentic.
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"I do not wish to raise on the side of the entry to Nueva Ardia, besides stating that, like every other civilized nation, it could be inferred entry to the nation would only be legal through a registered Port of Entry (PoE), thus making the entry into Nueva Ardia illegal, by definition, but I will let the Neuva Ardian delegation speak to there laws.

However, we wish to raise concerns pertaining to the fishing boat, which was, in Achkaerin's eyes, a 'pirate' vessel. We re-state the definition of 'Piracy':

Quote:
 

Definition of piracy

Piracy consists of any of the following acts:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

(b) any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

(c) any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (b).


Achkaerin has, as stands, made no attempts to justify their claims that the ship involved was actively committing or had committed piracy, to the knowledge of this delegation.

Furthermore, we cite Article 100 of the Fair Seas Concordat
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Duty to cooperate in the repression of piracy

All States shall cooperate to the fullest possible extent in the repression of piracy on the high seas or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State.

Achkaerin has, not before or after the incident, made no attempts to state its intention to foreign warships, foreign civilian vessels, or make any communications whatsoever so as to the intentions of its warship nor as to the incident that had occurred, to any involved party.


Furthermore, we cite Article 98 of the Fair Seas Concordat:
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Duty to render assistance

1. Every State shall require the master of a ship flying its flag, in so far as he can do so without serious danger to the ship, the crew or the passengers:

(a) to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of being lost;

(b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress, if informed of their need of assistance, in so far as such action may reasonably be expected of him;

(c) after a collision, to render assistance to the other ship, its crew and its passengers and, where possible, to inform the other ship of the name of his own ship, its port of registry and the nearest port at which it will call.

2. Every coastal State shall promote the establishment, operation and maintenance of an adequate and effective search and rescue service regarding safety on and over the sea and, where circumstances so require, by way of mutual regional arrangements cooperate with neighbouring States for this purpose.

As radar logs, which we will be releasing to this chamber dictate, the Achkaerin warship that fired a missile at the vessel, identified as the INS Valiant, made no attempts to render assistance to the vessel, as is mandated in international law. The ship fired a missile at the vessel, and within minutes of the incident had reversed its course and was making flank speed away from the Nueva Ardian coastline, in a manor more equivalent with fleeing the scene of a crime than defeating a pirate vessel.

We furthermore, wish to note that once the SHS Keigan Sea, a Fast Response class of frigate, had reached within visual range of the Valiant, they attempted to make contact with the warship and failed, due to, as forwarded by the Valiant via morse code, 'faulty radio equipment'. With this in mind, the Valiant had previously made radio contact with another entity[1]. The Keigan Sea responded with signal flags which the Valiant proceeded to ignore and continue at flank speed into it had reached its home port of Naval Base Antares.

Given the circumstances, violation of both a mandate to render assistance to the strucken vessel, and a violation of a lawful stop order, the story presented by Achkaerin that 'It was a pirate vessel' seems less and less like a plausible scenario.

It is the fear of this delegation, that the pretenses and stereotypes established by the histories of both nations involved in this incident may be used as a mechanism from which to ignore the facts of the situation because of who is presenting them. This will be a fatal error on the CTO's half that should not be pursued.
[1] We'd know they made contact (with the Achkaerin senators/ect oocly), but not with whom or what was discussed as it would obviously be encrypted
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"Let's adress all these, 'fact-based' points.

1) The South Hills delegation is correct, Nueva Ardia is a civilized nation with a very large system in place to ensure that. Without inserting through a Point of Entry as South Hills put it, your insertion, no matter how justified you feel in it is illegal and put the entire Nueva Ardian military on alert as well as South Hills, trade was affected by your actions effectively losing millions of revenue that runs through the straits and canals.

2) (OOC: I never thought to write down the laws on it, but I have always thought and made IRC comments on how guns are illegal in Nueva Ardia)

If you look in your report, it's also on public record, you'll see the constituted Gun-ban signed by Princes Laura and the Chancellery in 1968. This includes your non-lethal weapons you've brought into Nueva Ardia. This subjects your agents to trial in Nueva Ardia for this action as well as breaking into the country.

3) Well, thank you for the definition of piracy, but you still haven't justified your reasons, you only have mere superstition on your side saying 'perhaps it was pirates?' That does not justify your actions and as it stands the vessel is civilian. Now there have been incidents where vessels unknowingly smuggled substances across the straits or a single member of a crew smuggled substances with his or her own luggage, in these cases the Nueva Ardian Strait Coast Guard(NASCG) and Nueva Ardian Canal Coast Guard(NACCG) have put in extensive investigations. Despite this, the Achkaerinese didn't co-operate with the Nueva Ardian government in anti-piracy operations nor did they notify NASCG authorities of the vessels presence, to date the Coast Guard has never sunk suspected vessels but seized them, as sinking a vessel that is simply 'suspected' of piracy or smuggling doesn't make it so. Even if it was involved in illegal operations, you were far out of your jurisdiction and put the entire Military on alert.

4) And what evidence do you have that they are telling her truth? It's convenient, that these Achkaerinese justicars all seemed in the right place at the right time, everywhere they went it seemed a major figure died under mysterious circumstances. Yet, on both sides of the argument we have no evidence as to intention on both sides and can only throw around speculation. As stated, the Persuasion is a government agency under completely authority of the crown and in this case, the Royal Tribunal and Chancellery.

This entire debate as the South Hills delegation has point out is based on stereotypes, both sides of the argument perhaps but it seems history is in fact being used a mechanism for justification instead of present facts, like Rokkenjima blindly leaning it's support for Achkaerin because it's past actions that represent their similar agenda."
Edited by Gadshack, 20th June 2015 - 09:02 AM.
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"Ignorance of history has brought about some of the worst crises humanity has faced," Stacey retorted. "The fact of the matter is we have seen in Achkaerin a responsible partner who has contributed to international interests consistently, as well as a nation which has a deep respect for the rule of law. Likewise, in Nueva Ardia, we have seen consistent governmental instability and questions in regards to its legitimacy which have become even greater since the events which brought us to this condemnation resolution. Present facts, which we believe will be proven as such with an independent CTO investigation, will show that your words, much like your 'governments' policy, are being used as distractions, a smokescreen for your people that you are now attempting to fool the international community with."

"Rokkenjima shall be putting forth a Resolution calling for an independent CTO investigation regarding the claims Achkaerin has made concerning the situation in Nueva Ardia. We must seek the truth of this situation, and we must also consider the very real possibility of a coup in Nueva Ardia and the implications that has for the Security Council. Rokkenjima is confident that the independent investigation will prove previously stated concerns, including those of the Holy Empire, are indeed factual and accurate. From there the CTO may take the necessary steps to rectify the situation."
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"Regardless of a resolution for an investigation, something we would support, the fact of the matter is an illegal entry of Nueva Ardia was made prior to any coup taking place and as no records appear apparent of the Achkaerin forces taking any measure to apprehend the fishing boat despite clearly having a speed advantage as they outran a South Hills vessel , and a firepower advantage. This resolution was brought by a nation on the pretence of its sovereignty being interfered with by an example of unilateral military action, something this organisation was established to avoid. Had Achkaerin concerns about the situation surely they would have been bound to bring them before the organisation before ordering operatives to break local law. Let us not allow a few nations dislike of each other to blind us about the simple facts.

First , did these Justicars enter Nueva Ardia legally. The answer is no, no official point of entry was used and therefore a crime was committed. Secondly these operatives brought weaponary with them which was classed as illegal in the nation, this is the second crime that was committed. Everything beyond that is in doubt clearly and this is what the investigation should also focus on. Let us not forget we have Achkaerin armed forces committing at least two crimes here, and those will have been, unless the Ackhaerin ambassador wishes to correct us, authorised by the Emperor or his representatives.

Therefore on the matters stating

2. Orders the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to withdraw all military personnel and weaponry from Nueva Ardia,

3. Refers the actions of the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to the Convention Advisory Committee for the Uppsala Conventions,

4. Demands that the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin be prosecuted if found to be in breach of the Uppsala Convention by the Convention Advisory Committee.

I see no reason why we would not support these. 2) Merely rights the crime that has been committed and would see the Justicars, who presently face a potential death penalty, returned home, meanwhile 3) gives the CAC the go ahead to investigate, something which many nations here have called for, meanwhile 4) Is a natural progression should 3 find in favour of Nueva Ardia's claims.

Should nations believe that the Neuva Ardian government is up to no good, so to speak, that should be the focus of a separate resolution and does not excuse what are two clear breeches of law before the assassination of the Prince and any coup took place.
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OOC- ok since I run off for 10 days tomorrow thought I'd better establish this.

"With respect to the Nueva Ardian delegate I remind them that the burden of proof lies not with Achkaerin but with Rokkenjima there is such a thing as the presumption of innocence.

Now let's get this ironed out

1) Can Nueva Ardia prove that any port of entry would have been safe? considering Abran's attitude at the time we of course contest that no such entry port would have been safe.

2) (OOC- I need a word with Gad on the weapons point so I suggest that's left aside for the moment)

3) I would have thought in the context in which the FSC was cited that it was obvious that we were identifying the matter of Maki's illegal detention aboard the ship as the reason for designating it as a pirate ship.

4) In terms of the Persuasion I repeat the point- Nueva Ardia has the burden of proof they must prove that the Persuasion is not the threat that the gathered and submitted evidence says they are.

Now with the greatest of respect to the UNP delegate, the coup happened shortly after the death of Claudio Penultimo during which Abran took power, following Abran's assassination we now have a second coup on our hands.

I also dispute the idea that the Achkaerin defence should be confined to a separate debate."
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"Your excuse for point of entry is scrapping the bottom of the barrel, secondly Maki entered the country illegally and Achkaerin stationed a military vessel illegally within our waters. Maki was being transferred by a civilian vessel to avoid detection of your stealth vessel to facilities in Belleza, still if you perceived the vessel as a pirate vessel you had no permission to 'sink it', as said our Coast Guard has a policy against it unless it's absolutely necessary and it was not, the fishing vessel was hardly armed to fire a military-grade missile at it. What the Achkaerinese vessel should have done is inform the Coast Guard but they didn't because they were in our waters illegally. And you're not on grounds to argue whether the Persuasion is dangerous or not, Achkaerin infiltrated the country and was under interrogation and manipulation of the Persuasion because of that, using their technique they were able to successfully capture Achkaerinese forces that illegally infiltrated the country.

And there is no coup, what is the world's obsession with this? Our leader has assassinated yet you mock and insult us, Nueva Ardia is still considering war and the people would be more than happy to oblige. So far, we agree with the Nordic delegates and would fully agree to those terms as it outlines the main focus of this resolution."
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"With due respect to the Achkaerin delegate I find the evidence currently points towards your guilt, and your arguments merely attempts at justifying that guilt. May I also remind Rokkenjima that it is not the actions of Nueva Ardia that are in question here but rather Achkaerin's. All they are doing at present is muddying the waters, I agree that an investigation into what is and has happened internally within Nueva Ardia would be a benefit, however that should be addressed in a seperate resolution as this one exists to determine has Achkaerin acted in breach of several international treaties and laws.

At present we have a situation where a group of military personel, people who would have been given high authority orders entered a country illegally. While the Achkaerin delegate says can Nueva Ardia prove any port of entry was safe I find laughable. If a nation is not safe to enter by conventional means then surely entering via jet ski avoiding detection by naval patrols and then later by a military parachute jump is even more dangerous. If Achkaerin has a travel advisory against travel to Nueva Arida then the party shouldn't have gone at all. The fact of the matter is unless the Achkaerin government can produce some valid paperwork showing entry was made legally then we must determine that illegal entry was made.

As the delegate from Neuva Ardia stated the vessel was a civilian one, it was to my knowledge carrying no military grade equipment and posed no threat to a highly modern military vessel armed with photon torpedoes and phasers state of the art modern weapons. Radio frequencies are monitored and no log exists anywhere, including your nations records, of any attempt to communicate with the ship asking them to stop. A fishing vessel could have been stopped easily by trained military personnel and engaged with lighter weapons. The fact this happened inside another nations territorial water without contacting that nation first again is enough for me to say you are guilty of what you are accused, now I am more than willing to consider that should some radio logs, deck camera footage or any other such evidence come to light, however I believe if that existed it would have been presented before now.

We have heard from many nations around this table of the dangers of unilateral military action, may I remind the delegate from Rokkenjima that they themselves spoke before this body on the amendment to address Security Council concerns and said

"Situations which would warrant the removal of a Security Council member would include violating the Commonwealth Treaty, acting in ways which are contravening to maintaining international peace and security, unilateral military actions which not only undermine the Security Council itself but also act against the spirit of the peaceful resolution of disputes, state-sanctioned genocides and coups"

"Even had a coup taken place within Neuva Ardia then it would be expected that this organisation take action and that as a security council member Achkaerin should have brought a resolution before that body rather than act out of hand. We seem to be turning a blind eye to the many violations Achkaerin has committed because of who their allies seem to be. The mud slinging at the nation that legally speaking been invaded is preposterous.

I have one further concern of yet another breech of the Uppsala Convention, at 14 years of age Maki Hamer is clearly a child, to not just once but twice put her in harms way is in my view turning her into a child soldier. To have been able to jet ski from a military vessel into another nation, even as a passenger, and then parachute into the same nation, again even if in tandem, and effect an intrusion into the centre of a nations government, all these things require military skill and training. The Uppsala convention is clearly against child soldiers or placing minors into combat situations, this is just another in a long line of breeches Achkaerin has committed.

This whole situation has been caused either by the arrogance of Achkaerin military or the stupidity. Their delegate has not proven that they did not enter the country illegally, if it was not safe to do so why endanger a 14 year old girl with no military experience, if she had military experience then they have breeched the Uppsala Convention and deserve condemnation. Their delegate has not proven that Achkaerin was justified in carrying out military action without CTO support, something in another discussion Rokkenjima opposed and actively stated should lead to the removal of a security council member, we now face the prospect of seeing Rokkenjima change tact on that belief or a potential removal of a security council member. Their delegate has not proven to us that their navy acted in accordance with international recognised maritime intercept laws despite possessing a far superior vessel to the one they destroyed using not one but two missiles. This seems a little excessive. Perhaps the Achkaerin delegate could bring forth the evidence that proves my concerns wrong. Otherwise I have no choice but to support this resolution while also calling for a second resolution to be set up establishing a separate investigation into the current situation in Nueva Ardia."




OOCly - Most modern warships apparently have a version of a black box recording conversations on the bridge, I'd like to point out that this could potentially be called as evidence and has on it the following.

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"I would remind the UNP delegate one last time that the burden of proof is on Nueva Ardia NOT Achkaerin if you're going to dispute that principle then you fly in the face of the most sacred legal principle. Nueva Ardia have to prove that a point of entry was safe considering remarks made in the conversation Abran had with Maki in evidence we have provided (part 1 part 2 part 3 part 4 part 5 part 6 part 7 Part 8 Part 9) there is sufficient reason to believe that despite Abran's content to allow Maki to meet with Pelita that no point of entry would have been safe, Maki would have probably been arrested at those ports. Therefore since Maki was determined to meet with Pelita more unconventional means were used.

Furthermore the fact that it was Maki's decision to go herself makes your concerns about the Uppsala Convention moot in the first instance and it was her decision to join the operation over the capital so moot in the second instance.

Secondly the insertion over the capital was as previously stated and backed up by evidence done to save a life and prevent what has since been a coup. Now if you are seriously saying that we should have sat back and let them kill Abran before doing anything then you are not going to get anywhere, better to try to prevent the coup from happening in the first place than let it happen. We have also previously submitted evidence that explains the thought process that went into that decision.

Thirdly the matter of territorial waters is an interesting one[1] however I remind you that the ship was designated as a pirate and since the people operating that ship were also responsible for the deaths of the Nueva Ardian special forces unit[2] there is every reason to designate them as terrorists. And on that basis we can take action against them to save the life of an Achkaerinese citizen.

Now quoting Rokkenjima is all well and good but that particular quotation is not relevant, the principle of Dog's law being what it is. I would also point out that this chain of events was set into motion long before the CTO had a security council so the prospect of CTO military support did not exist."
[1] OOC- I would point out that nowhere have I stated precisely where the relevant incident occurred and there is a certain place that fits with the story but would be in international waters
[2] This would be known by Maki
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"I am satisfied then that the Achkaerin forces did enter illegally. If no port of entry was safe then entry shouldn't have been made. You yourself have admitted they did not enter through a normal port of entry and therefore that is at least one crime that has been committed.

While Maki may have wished to join in the operation it was your nation's high command who authorised it. Thus placing a 14 year old in harms way, something reckless and clearly in breech of the Uppsala convention. Stating that "Therefore since Maki was determined to meet with Pelita more unconventional means were used." seems to indicate that a 14 year old is able to dictate the military policy of your nation. If she has ordered what is in effect an invasion merely to quell her

No one is now debating whether the ship was a pirate or not, what is being debated is the process used to stop that ship. By firing missiles at a clearly unarmoured vessel without following recognised protocols for intercepting a vessel you acted recklessly, regardless of its location. By firing missiles you could not determine whether Maki would be killed in the blast therefore it is my conclusion your actions were reckless, clearly if saving Maki's life was such a concern you would have effected a rescue operation by stopping the vessel and boarding it not blowing it up.

Having heard the evidence I am afraid I believe you have committed crimes based on the evidence presented. I have asked numerous times for you to refute this, show us passport stamps, visas, show us the radio logs of the ships and their attempts to stop the vessel before blowing it up. In the absence of these things I believe we must believe they do not exist."
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OOC- I'm going to say this once OOCly- the burden of proof is on Nueva Ardia to submit evidence (which has not been submitted) to back their case, in the absence of such evidence Achkaerin cannot be condemned since Achkaerin does not have to prove anything.

Secondly there was a means to determine that Maki survived the blast but unless you actually want to call the commanding officer of the Valiant to give evidence (which would shift the burden of proof unfairly) then you aren't going to find this out.

Also I suggest that any resolution calling for an investigation (and the investigation itself should it be passed) be handled before we resolve this matter.
Edited by Achkaerin, 23rd June 2015 - 09:17 AM.
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OOC-

The evidence is that the Justicars are in their custody and they have no paperwork. That equals an unlawful entry to a nation. I would therefore expect it to be reasonable that you show they did infact enter legally.

As for the sinking of the vessel it is commonly accepted intercept protocol to use international frequencies to issue an order to stop. That would be monitored by all and it is routine that these are recorded. As no message has been put forward by nations then it is logical to assume it doesn't exist. Therefore two conclusions can be reached, 1) It wasn't issued therefore you didn't use standard internationally recognised procedure which lands you in it 2) You used the boats own frequency which would not be monitored internationally and you would therefore be expected to produce it.

As for ensuring Maki could survive two missiles being launched I sorry but I call BS on that. You would have had no idea where on the boat she was , you can not predict the trajectory of the flying debris and anything could have hit her killing her. Any blast big enough to sink a boat could easily have killed her either directly or indirectly.
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OOC- As mentioned numerous times in the Gran Cambio thread Maki has been fitted with a subcutaneous transmitter therefore her location would have been known, and while it's true regarding the debris if I knew her location it's possible for me to target in such a way as to minimize the risk of injury i.e. if she was being held at the bow I'd hit the stern. Additionally without that transmitter that boat doesn't get sunk.

Edited by Achkaerin, 23rd June 2015 - 09:45 AM.
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23rd June 2015 - 09:44 AM
OOC- As mentioned numerous times in the Gran Cambio thread Maki has been fitted with a subcutaneous transmitter therefore her location would have been known, and while it's true regarding the debris if I knew her location it's possible for me to target in such a way as to minimize the risk of injury i.e. if she was being held at the bow I'd hit the stern. Additionally without that transmitter that boat doesn't get sunk.

OOC - I'm sorry but I'm going to call all kinds of Bullshite that you possess a (Directly ripped from stargate) kind of locator that lets you find out EXACTLY where someone is INSIDE a large-ish fishing vessel, Yeah, no.

Even military grade GPS will have a solid 10m innacuracy potential and then it won't give you a 3 dimensional idea of where they are INSIDE something.
Edited by hobbes, 23rd June 2015 - 09:50 AM.
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OOC - Therefore to say there was means to determine she could survive is not true. Once the missiles are fired you have minimal control over them. You may target one area however debris flies a long way especially on a non military vessel, also you have the issue of damage trapping her on a sinking vessel killing her. Frankly to try and argue that shooting a fishing boat with a missile was to save her life when you have a heavily armed war ship with various other less damaging means at your disposal is ridiculous.

I'm all occasionally suspending some disbelief in RP but frankly a military making a decision to sink a ship as some elaborate hostage rescue situation is well beyond belief.

PS....Hobbes sniped me
Edited by NordicPeoples, 23rd June 2015 - 09:51 AM.
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23rd June 2015 - 09:51 AM
OOC - Therefore to say there was means to determine she could survive is not true. Once the missiles are fired you have minimal control over them. You may target one area however debris flies a long way especially on a non military vessel, also you have the issue of damage trapping her on a sinking vessel killing her. Frankly to try and argue that shooting a fishing boat with a missile was to save her life when you have a heavily armed war ship with various other less damaging means at your disposal is ridiculous.

I'm all occasionally suspending some disbelief in RP but frankly a military making a decision to sink a ship as some elaborate hostage rescue situation is well beyond belief.

PS....Hobbes sniped me
OOC -
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I'm also not sure how accurate this is, but I've also been lead to believe that Maki was the only one that survived and or/ a majority of the ship was killed and she lived. Really also effects the realism here. But I do imagine Gad would've brought crewmembers here to testify had they lived.

That said, we only really can get so far nitpicking Ach's realism here, still need to handle it ICly, which leads to my question as to why his position is actually being supported by some (say, Rokkenjima) when even some of his closer allies (such as East Moreland) are openly opposing him.
Edited by hobbes, 23rd June 2015 - 09:58 AM.
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OOC- Maki was the only person I rescued, for all I know there are other survivors- people on the outside deck when the missiles hit could have survived likely as not most of the people below deck would have been killed. Now if you want the logs I will produce the logs showing that the FSC was upheld and that force was the last resort (I will point out this is where I blame Gad for not telling me this was coming)

Additionally let's clear this up Achkaerin is INNOCENT until proven guilty since Achkaerin has been thrown into the 'defendant' position therefore it is up to Nueva Ardia to prove a case and the General Assembly's responsibility to scrutinize that case and determine whether I have a case to answer or not until that point is reached Rokkenjima is taking the correct approach which is to look at the prosecution rather than the defence as it were.
Edited by Achkaerin, 23rd June 2015 - 10:02 AM.
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23rd June 2015 - 10:00 AM
Now if you want the logs I will produce the logs showing that the FSC was upheld and that force was the last resort (I will point out this is where I blame Gad for not telling me this was coming)
If you can produce logs verifying you rendered assistance to the vessel (which is mandated under international law by UNCLOS/FSC) when you actually didin't, I would be really impressed lol.
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OCC - We're beginning to see goalposts getting moved now. Had a call be made to ask the vessel to stop, and then set out an ultermatum, such as I did in the Whale Hunt thread. That would have been picked up by people in the area and as its usually done on an international frequency so would the South Hills vessel in the area.

Beside your people on the boat wouldn't have said ""But you know as well as I do that what we're about to do could be taken as an act of war" unless they knew they were in the wrong.

I get the feeling some kind of pre worked out RP has been agreed upon and anything we say is not going to influence things, if thats the case please tell us so my time is not wasted.
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23rd June 2015 - 10:14 AM
I get the feeling some kind of pre worked out RP has been agreed upon and anything we say is not going to influence things, if thats the case please tell us so my time is not wasted.
They've both more or less confirmed this is the case and a resolution is basically already worked out.

That's why I already left gran cambio because nothing I did seemed to result in anyone caring.
Edited by hobbes, 23rd June 2015 - 10:16 AM.
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OOC- The resolution in terms of getting the Justicars and Maki out of Nueva Ardia has been determined it's just been sped up due to one thing or another (were it not for various LOA's we'd still be playing fun and games over naval communication), whether that impacts this debate is another matter.
Edited by Achkaerin, 23rd June 2015 - 10:36 AM.
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OOC - So essentially then we're wasting our time as any recommendation we make has no impact on role play. Think I'll stop wasting my time then.
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OOC Have to say sadly beginning to agree. The simple point Maki and the Justiciar are in custody is evidence of their guilt. An " invite " is one thing but then you still would need to enter legally to be lawful. If it wasn't safe don't go. To then say there is still a burden of proof on this to NA makes me confused. How else did they get in other than illegally, it would now be up to the Achkarein government to prove that NA'S claim is false.

As for the boat radio thing there would be a log of every call made by the boat. rp wise you didn't make any communication with the boat, to now back track to produce one would in my opinion be highly unfair to Nord and Hobbes who have clearly done lots of research on this based on what is realistic.

I also have to agree, military GPS is accurate to within about 10 square meters and just shows a coordinate not a height etc.

I would ask that if there is a conclusion arranged for this then we should be told if we are wasting our time.
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OOC - Is everyone so hell-bent on pre-determined RP that non-predetermined is impossible here? I'm trying to do non-predetermined and actually trying to make this have an effect on Gran Cambio, I mean that was the whole the fucking point but this underlying competitive attitude that no one is willing to be fucked is getting ridiculous, I'm done. As soon as something doesn't swing someone's way they freak out, co-operative RP is impossible here unless you want to lose to a great power with a big stick or have a shitty predetermined ending.
Edited by Gadshack, 23rd June 2015 - 02:23 PM.
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23rd June 2015 - 02:20 PM
OOC - Is everyone so hell-bent on pre-determined RP that non-predetermined is impossible here? I'm trying to do non-predetermined and actually trying to make this have an effect on Gran Cambio, I mean that was the whole the fucking point but this underlying competitive attitude that no one is willing to be fucked is getting ridiculous, I'm done. As soon as something doesn't swing someone's way they freak out, co-operative RP is impossible here unless you want to lose to a great power with a big stick or have a shitty predetermined ending.
The point we're making is any effect we have is kind of pointless when the end result of the RP is already pre determined.

Hell, I recall you being one of the key people against doing it this way, Gad.
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23rd June 2015 - 02:24 PM
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23rd June 2015 - 02:20 PM
OOC - Is everyone so hell-bent on pre-determined RP that non-predetermined is impossible here? I'm trying to do non-predetermined and actually trying to make this have an effect on Gran Cambio, I mean that was the whole the fucking point but this underlying competitive attitude that no one is willing to be fucked is getting ridiculous, I'm done. As soon as something doesn't swing someone's way they freak out, co-operative RP is impossible here unless you want to lose to a great power with a big stick or have a shitty predetermined ending.
The point we're making is any effect we have is kind of pointless when the end result of the RP is already pre determined.

Hell, I recall you being one of the key people against doing it this way, Gad.
I am against it, and I don't have a predetermined mindset of how the RP is ending though I do plan on an upcoming event I have a very vague idea of it.

But it's hard to be undetermined with other's participating in the PR are pre-determined.

I can assure, I have no idea how the RP is will end, I mean I killed Abran out of the blue, I haven't developed the RP to any type of outcome at all.

I'm talking generally, you can't win over a big stick or everyone freaks out.
Edited by Gadshack, 23rd June 2015 - 02:31 PM.
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23rd June 2015 - 10:35 AM
OOC- The resolution in terms of getting the Justicars and Maki out of Nueva Ardia has been determined

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I can assure, I have no idea how the RP is will end, I mean I killed Abran out of the blue, I haven't developed the RP to any type of outcome at all.


There are some drastically different messages being passed to us here.
Edited by hobbes, 23rd June 2015 - 02:32 PM.
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It's been determined? How?

This is what I mean by having a player who predetermines everything with someone who doesn't, it's fucking impossible.
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23rd June 2015 - 02:32 PM
It's been determined? How?

This is what I mean by having a player who predetermines everything with someone who doesn't, it's fucking impossible.
Just running from what's been posted here, Gad.


I'm not really sure how to handle this lol.

Can you hop on IRC? We can talk there.
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To state to non-IRC people:

this is from a PM to Ach regarding the events:

Gran Cambio
 
Now, I threw in a major plot twist I guess....

This comes to a planning phase now since this will spin out of control without some structure at this point.

Essentially Nueva Ardia will hold the Justicars captive, threatening war and all that fun stuff while framing it that Maki went to Abelle palace weeks before to keep in touch with the family and learn the culture etc. As far as the Justicars are concerned, they infiltrated the country with the intention of helping Pelita Vasquez and so on. So far since the Penultimo's a spread out(after Dunwich they separated all over the world) it will be framed that Maki with aid of the Royal Tribunal will reign regency over the country until something with Janelle can be figured out.

Now I will give you leeway and not completely destroy your international image if you're worried about that. In the end Nueva Ardia will look so bad it would overshadow you, or so that's my plans.

now war....if it comes to that I don't mind...it would be a one on one battle anyway and as pointed out we are RPing in the war sections. Considering our distance from eachother(and your base would mainly be isolated sea-wise) it wouldn't be at such a massive scale.

I am down for re-scripting, it's no problem.


To clarify I did not have anything pre-determined, I only set a 'foundational' script and everything else is completely left in the air for a developing story, so this should have an effect on the events of Gran Cambio, otherwise I wouldn't have done this.
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OOC: It has been a long week or two for me, and I recognize that I have a lot to catch up on and get rolling. Anyway, apart from calls for an independent CTO-backed investigation into the CTO (which I'll work on at some point today) I'll be retconning my other contributions to this topic. There's clearly a lot at play here, and I wish to ensure continuity and consistency in Rokkenjiman policy. Therefore, to do that, only our arguments for the investigation should be considered as having taken place.
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OOC- Greetings from sunny Southport

Let me be clear about the 'resolution' to this I'm speaking purely short term, my mindset is fundamentally that there is going to be a rescue attempt (probably the next post I write in the Gran Cambio topic) Do I know what's going to happen in that? Yes I do because I'm writing it and they're my characters so their fate is my decision.

Now once the initial situation with these hostages is resolved I don't know what's going to happen, Gad doesn't know what's going to happen for all I know we could be looking at a cold war scenario or we might end up in a full blown conflict.
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23rd June 2015 - 08:29 PM

Let me be clear about the 'resolution' to this I'm speaking purely short term, my mindset is fundamentally that there is going to be a rescue attempt (probably the next post I write in the Gran Cambio topic) Do I know what's going to happen in that? Yes I do because I'm writing it and they're my characters so their fate is my decision.
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This REALLY needs said and i will place emphasis on the underlined.

The 'they're developed characters pls dont kill' shield works fine in normal RPs, but when you willingly and willfully place your characters into deadly and risky situations, you shouldn't be using this as a shield. It's really getting stupid and we all can name at least once you've used it with your characters to appear god-like and unkillable. Plane crashes, boats exploding, killing off numerous cops and grunts with teenagers comes to mind.

This is all fine on paper, but you should be willing to accept that your characters are entirely fair game to be killed off, just as any grunt. You're willingly putting them into stupidly dangerous situations and the expectation that 'they'll all live if I say they do' is down right getting stupid at this point.

</rant>
Edited by hobbes, 23rd June 2015 - 08:52 PM.
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OOC- Seems still intent on ignoring the facts its blindingly clear so many breeches of various treaties has taken place, regardless of if they are rescued it still doesn't account for their actions. But seems we're not bothering with that
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OOC - Yes, Achkaerin needs to face repercussion to their actions, it's all how nations perceive it IC'ly and right now there are consequences in store for how this situation is being perceived. Therefore there must be actions and influences or the entire event of Gran Cambio will ahve to never happen because it simply makes no sense.
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OOC: Just for clarity, and I apologise if it's been said before, but for the benefit of myself and others, can we have:
1) The facts of the case (either in OOC or IC format, and preferably bullet-pointed for simples)
2) The facts that would be known ICly – this is what I'll be basing my vote on. Just in case there's anything we'd know OOCly but not ICly.

Danke!


Edit: Was included here – thanks Gad :)
Edited by CGJ, 23rd June 2015 - 09:37 PM.
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OCC

1. Achkaerin Justicars have been caught inside Nueva Ardia with 14 year old Maki Hamer

2. Achakerin naval vessel was caught in the vicinity of a vessel which had been sunk, the vessel was a civilian fishing boat (OOCly - Possibly used by terrorists) , no radio log of an intercept attempt exists and instead two missiles were fired.

3. Justicars onboard Achkaerin naval vessel out ran (???) South Hills navy to Dauntel ignoring radio challenges

4. Justicars and 14 year old Maki Hamer parachute into Neuva Ardia and get caught inside Royal Palace.

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2. Achakerin naval vessel was caught in the vicinity of a vessel which had been sunk, the vessel was a civilian fishing boat (OOCly - Possibly used by terrorists) , no radio log of an intercept attempt exists and instead two missiles were fired.
OOC: South hills has released naval radar logs of the Achkaerin vessel firing missiles at the fishing boat.
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OOC - OOC opinions is interfering waaaaay too much in this
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OOCly- basically most of what this is about can be found in the opening statements towards the beginning of the thread OOCly Gad made it clear that most of the Achkaerin opening statement was accurate and that Nueva Ardia was essentially being manipulative.

ICly the four main charges I believe are

1) Achkaerin forces illegal entry- on this Achkaerin is by the letter of the law guilty, the defence is based on circumstances on the ground and a conversation involving Maki and Abran that any port would be unsafe to enter Nueva Ardia by. I would probably also try to run a defence based on them being kidnapped before having the opportunity to acquire such stamps.

2) the illegal carrying of weapons is a charge we haven't covered much due to the specifics there are issues of classification that we're waiting on. Most likely defence would be innocent mistake.

3) the sinking of a Nueva Ardian ship- South Hills radar logs etc make this impossible to deny so I'm basing a defence around the ship being a terrorist operated vessel (evidence for this being that the ships people i.e 'The Persuasion' killed the Nueva Ardia Conquistadores sent to apprehend Maki and the Justicars) the vessel being intent on carrying out further terrorist activity against Nueva Ardia was dealt with, Maki's survival would have been an unknown despite the desperate IC scrambling Cheryl's doing, basic application of standard Achkaerin counter terrorist protocols will be the argument there. Also the decision was that of the Valiant captain alone and not sanctioned higher up though this is not known ICly yet.

4) Party to the assassination of Abran Penultimo- Icly it's known that there was an insertion into the capital of Nueva Ardia because four Justicars and Maki are being held prisoner, soon to be executed which in the case of Maki would breach the Uppsala Convention (the attempted execution is to be submitted as evidence in the future) It's also been evidenced that Maki was not opposed to Abran at this point but rather she was being supportive of him against 'The Persuasion' the whole basis for the insertion being to make sure that 'Operation Cobalt' failed sadly it succeeded and Abran was killed.

Now on this point I would (if I haven't already) submit evidence using overlays of transmitter records and satellite imaging to show that the Justicars were nowhere near Abran when he was shot. The fact that Maki was stood right next to him is something Nueva Ardia may make the most out of but that would run contrary to the evidence provided concerning Operation Cobalt and therefore the notion of this part of the claim would be highly suspect.

Now with a legal head on there are three things that need to ICly be remembered if this is to continue

1, the burden of proof is on Nueva Ardia
2, Achkaerin is innocent until proven guilty
3, the principle of Dog's law gives Achkaerin a level of protection under these circumstances.

Also to bring up a point made by Rokkenjima- Achkaerin's record is relevant in that the actions Achkaerin is accused of are contrary to their international record and therefore out of character so it follows that this is either perceived to be a case of 'malicious prosecution' or there is a justifiable reason- the latter is what will be argued ICly after the current section of Gran Cambio concludes.

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Now with a legal head on there are three things that need to ICly be remembered if this is to continue

1, the burden of proof is on Nueva Ardia
2, Achkaerin is innocent until proven guilty
3, the principle of Dog's law gives Achkaerin a level of protection under these circumstances.


To clarify a point of law here: this is not a criminal tribunal. 'Innocent until proven guilty' therefore does not apply here. Members of the General Assembly are free to support or oppose this resolution, regardless of facts. Most, I suspect, will adhere both to their IC knowledge (and their interpretation of events), and apply any mitigating/aggravating factors accordingly.
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OOC - Much like the UN were being asked to say whether we believe you have done something worthy of condemnation in the international community. CTO is not a law court beside evidence has been presented and you must respond to that rather than just repeating "burden of proof is on Nueva Ardia"

1) Achkaerin forces illegal entry- on this Achkaerin is by the letter of the law guilty, the defence is based on circumstances on the ground and a conversation involving Maki and Abran that any port would be unsafe to enter Nueva Ardia by. I would probably also try to run a defence based on them being kidnapped before having the opportunity to acquire such stamps.


Admission of guilt. Your defence is frankly ridicoulous as if a countries point of entry was unsafe you wouldn't travel there, especially a dangerous form of entry where you may get picked up by Naval forces with a 14 year old kid. Are we to assume NA allows people to travel there without visas? Were the Justicars carrying their passports when stopped? I think they wouldn't be if we're being realistic. This ones a slam dunk.

2) the illegal carrying of weapons is a charge we haven't covered much due to the specifics there are issues of classification that we're waiting on. Most likely defence would be innocent mistake.


Ignorance of the law is no defence. Should Gad say NA doesn't allow firearms to be brought into the country then your guilty, end of.

3) the sinking of a Nueva Ardian ship- South Hills radar logs etc make this impossible to deny so I'm basing a defence around the ship being a terrorist operated vessel (evidence for this being that the ships people i.e 'The Persuasion' killed the Nueva Ardia Conquistadores sent to apprehend Maki and the Justicars) the vessel being intent on carrying out further terrorist activity against Nueva Ardia was dealt with, Maki's survival would have been an unknown despite the desperate IC scrambling Cheryl's doing, basic application of standard Achkaerin counter terrorist protocols will be the argument there. Also the decision was that of the Valiant captain alone and not sanctioned higher up though this is not known ICly yet.

Again guilty, everyone knows you've done it and you have not and can not justify it, so again its now up to you to prove it either wasn't you (impossible) or you followed international norms (impossible)

4) Party to the assassination of Abran Penultimo- Icly it's known that there was an insertion into the capital of Nueva Ardia because four Justicars and Maki are being held prisoner, soon to be executed which in the case of Maki would breach the Uppsala Convention (the attempted execution is to be submitted as evidence in the future) It's also been evidenced that Maki was not opposed to Abran at this point but rather she was being supportive of him against 'The Persuasion' the whole basis for the insertion being to make sure that 'Operation Cobalt' failed sadly it succeeded and Abran was killed.

The resolution mentions nothing of the assassination. It asks us to focus on the attacks on military personnel and the fishing boat.




IC

"As a member of the Security Council you should be aware that it is your duty to " act in accordance with the Purposes and Principles of the Commonwealth Treaty Organisation" therefore you are bound to "take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace" Achkaerin's actions in Neuva Ardia were neither collective nor effective, hence the situation we are in here. I am yet to hear of any justifiable reason as to first of all why a 14 year old was permitted to enter a nation with a special operations team illegally. Had Achkaerin concerns about the situation inside Neuva Ardia they were bound by the Charter to take action through this organisation, something they did not.

That action has lead to a fishing boat being sunk which even if it was terrorists as Achkaerin claim was not given a warning, was not instructed to heave to and no warning shots were fired. All this would have been verified long before now by radio logs should they exist.

Finally we have a situation where Achkaerin did knowingly place a 14 year old child in a potential armed conflict, either by their suspicions about Nueva Ardia being correct or by effecting illegal entry into the nation.

I therefore propose that unless Achkaerin brings before this council evidence that none of the things I have outlined happened that they must be condemned for their actions. I am more than willing to change my opinion should items such as the Justicar's visas for Neuva Ardia, radio logs clearly showing a warning given to the fishing vessel or any other such evidence. I feel however should such things exist they would have been brought to our attention already.

Perhaps bearing this in mind this whole sorry process has been dragged out long enough, Achkaerin has a previously unblemished record internationally and I am surprised as any that such a resolution is necessary, however let us not allow previous conduct to allow us to permit what could be seen as many as a cause for retaliation, to go unanswered. I would like to also offer my praise to Neuva Ardia for not retaliating despite I suspect many of us believing they have just reason to. Instead they have taken their concerns to us and I believe we can reach a situation where peace is ensured."




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OOC- ok how about we establish whether I need to worry or not?

This isn't a tribunal fair enough however the next question is this- is anything said in this debate admissible in a court of law- in this case the ICJ? If so then this debate effectively is an extension of such a trial and I'd be within my rights to raise the burden of proof and such, however if you want to take that presumption out of the equation fine but you do so with the implication that what is said in this debate is not admissible in a future trial. On the basis that MCUR 'right to fair trial' etc would all become relevant in the contrary.
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"That is for a judge to deciede not us, so far all we have asked you to do is produce the following, passports and visa's showing entry to Neuva Ardia was lawful, and radio logs. How these are interpreted and questioned during any Uppsala or MCUR trial is for their judges to determine. As we have nations who are signatories of these organisations and not of CTO that is something for those bodies to deceide. A resolution must be reached here and I personally believe that if you can not produce the documents we ask for, because after all we all know they do not exist, then it is the duty of this body to pass the resolution condemning your actions."
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"As Secretary General it is my responsibility to minute and publish the records of our organisation. If Achkarein is concerned that this resolution hearing may influence any future trial I propose the following. The press and public galleries be cleared, the minutes if this session will continue but will not be made public until after a court case or twelve months, whichever is sooner. The outcome may be reported in the media however. This way the resolution can proceed and we do not face a unstable Mundus while we wait for courts to do their work, and as our rules on burden of proof are vastly different a court case is not prejudiced. "
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"The point is that the UNP by asking for evidence is effectively attempting to hold a court case by proxy. Secondly I'm not prepared to give the defence or submit further evidence with the Nueva Ardian delegate in this room since doing so will prejudice any future court action. So I suggest we go about this in a fair manner, obviously the assembly needs to consider the evidence but any future action is prejudiced with both myself and the Nueva Ardian delegate in the room at the same time.

I therefore suggest that we sort this out like adults rather than children, I suggest the General Assembly question first the Nueva Ardian delegate since they brought this resolution and then following that question myself. Such questioning would occur with the other party's delegation out of the room."
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"I believe first we should consider if anyone actually has any questions" The East Moreland delegate spoke. "I know I for one do not as you clearly have stated several times your views about how the Justicars ended up in Neuva Ardia. I don't think by questioning either one of you the facts will change, you have been asked by several members to show paperwork that the Justicars were there legally, we both know such a thing does not exist otherwise it would have been produced by now. Secondly you have been asked to show logs of calls made by your vessel to the fishing boat, again we know that does not exist otherwise it would have been produced by now."
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"At present I firmly believe that the members of the Achkaerin armed forces and a 14year old girl entered Neuva Ardia illegally, then at a later time an Achkaerin naval vessel engaged a fishing boat in the belief it was terrorist ignoring every rational norm of anti-piracy operations, I believe enough is known to be sure of these facts. I have no desire to see a nation that I have always seen as being a the forefront of international co-operation condemned, however a constant attempt to deflect questions and derail this process means that rather than addressing our concerns they only give greater credibility to the criticisms they face. I think I have given them ample time and opportunity to change my opinion therefore I have no questions to ask and stand ready, should I be permitted to vote."
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The Dartfordian delegate, sensing that the discussions would not really progress any further, picked up on the Nordic's motion to vote. "If that is a motion," he began, "then I second it. I believe it's time the General Assembly simply voted on the matter. I will consult with my government before casting a vote."
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OOC- if this goes to vote may I suggest that myself and Gad be allowed closing statements before the vote is cast?
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The East Moreland delegate stood, "We too believe we have heard enough to move this to a vote."

As his compatriot sat down the Secretary General looked around the room "Very well I'll invite Neuva Ardia and Achkaerin to make any last statements before I open the voting."
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OOC- Can't we just move this to a vote, its dragged on and on and frankly I don't think anything news going to be brought to the table other than the ad nausium burden of proof thing. At the very least give the pair of them a deadline.
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27th June 2015 - 12:07 AM
OOC- Can't we just move this to a vote, its dragged on and on and frankly I don't think anything news going to be brought to the table other than the ad nausium burden of proof thing. At the very least give the pair of them a deadline.
OOC - Agreed, I would seek a deadline to post the final arguments - maybe at the start of this Sunday to give them all day today - to move this along.
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Sounds a plan
Edited by NordicPeoples, 27th June 2015 - 12:27 AM.
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OOC - i have no closing statements
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OOC- I do but I'm presently on diminished activity, so it's probably going to have to be Monday due to the fact that this conference's longest day and latest night is tomorrow. So if you can bear with me please.
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OOC- And now the closing statement as promised

"Let's be clear about a few things, you have heard the accusations and you've heard the justifications, now ask yourselves does it add up? Would a ruler who has made clear his intent to rule seriously allow a credible threat into his nation through the usual means? Is it realistically acceptable to send someone who is effectively a dignitary into what is effectively a war zone unprotected? Is it right to stand by and not make attempts to rescue a civilian? Is it right to then not try and help a friend you have yet to meet?

The answer to all is no- it's quite clear in my mind at this point that it doesn't matter what I say, certain nations in this room have already made up their mind, but remember this condemnation does not equal guilt, not in this setting- to establish guilt or innocence an independent investigation is needed and that investigation has been mooted by the Rokkenjiman delegate. Let's have the truth of the circumstances first, let's have it all out in the open, let's have the investigation. I have already stated Achkaerin's willingness to submit all our evidence including evidence yet to be submitted to such an investigation for independent analysis as to the authenticity of the evidence. Is Nueva Ardia prepared to do the same, or will they continue to howl like an old toothless wolf?

The choice before you is one between a nation that has played a very poor hand very well and a nation that has played a strong hand in an average way. The evidence is all on one side and should a proper investigation be authorized and carried out, exonerate Achkaerin's actions, as previously stated all is justified.

Mr Secretary-General that concludes my statement and I move that you put the matter to a vote."
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The Secretary General began, "The time has come to put the following resolution to a vote. May I first remind you all that this vote is purely on Achkaerin's actions regarding Neuva Ardia and should be based on the resolution outlined."

Commonwealth Treaty Organisation
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Resolution #0001

Adopted by the General Assembly on [Date]


The General Assembly,

Deeply Concerned at the use of direct military intervention by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin's within Nueva Ardia's Sovereign Borders, including the attack of military personnel by Holy Empire military personnel,

Concerned further at the attack of a civilian vessel by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin

Taking into account that such an attack is contrary to the Uppsala Convention,

1. Condemns these acts of terror by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin,

2. Orders the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to withdraw all military personnel and weaponry from Nueva Ardia,

3. Refers the actions of the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to the Convention Advisory Committee for the Uppsala Conventions,

4. Demands that the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin be prosecuted if found to be in breach of the Uppsala Convention by the Convention Advisory Committee.




The East Moreland ambassador was first to speak. "It is with a heavy heart that I must vote for the resolution. I consider the nation of Achkaerin to be a friend, yet in this case I believe they have acted unwisely and in some ways recklessly and for me this is very out of charecter. I would urge once this resolution has been dealt with that a full investigation into exactly what has happened in Neuva Ardia took place, as so far the only things we can be certain of are that the Achkaerin military have on numerous occasions illegally entered the nation and acted recklessly in their acts towards the vessel that was sank."
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If I may respond to Achkaerin's questions and thereby explain why we vote in favour of this resolution, First they asked, would a ruler who has made clear his intent to rule seriously allow a credible threat into his nation through the usual means? If he was a threat why enter his nation, surely Maki would have been much safer in Achkaerin than participating as a child soldier in a military operation. Next you asked, is it realistically acceptable to send someone who is effectively a dignitary into what is effectively a war zone unprotected? The question needs to be asked is it sensible to send a dignitary into a war zone at all, especially when that dignitary is a 14 year old child. The you ask , Is it right to stand by and not make attempts to rescue a civilian? Frankly this attempt is laughable, if Achkaerin hostage rescue methods involve blowing up vessels having made no attempt to use superior force and technology to effect a rescue, for all your nation knew other civilians could have been on the vessel, what actions were taken to protect them? Is it right to then not try and help a friend you have yet to meet? There are several ways of providing help, your nation must have had credible intelligence or you would not have authorised an operation, at what point was that placed before the Security Council. You failed in that duty. It is my firm belief that as Achkaerin can provide or refuse to provide any reassurance that they have followed internationally accepted norms of documents their Imperial family have signed then they are in this case, and I stress only in this case, deserving of condemnation.

I echo my colleagues view that an investigation is required, but I believe this should take place regardless of outcome so lessons may be learnt to avoid a repeat of such an incident in future."
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After having listened intently to all words that had been spoken by the other ambassadors, ambassador Duskh of Cohdinia rose from his seat, adjusting his necktie before he spoke up. "Even though I do believe that an independent investigation should be carried out, to remove all doubt from our minds whether the Holy Empire in fact is guilty or not of what it is accused of .." he coughed, clearing his throat soon after. "I, on behalf of the Principality of Cohdinia, on behalf of my Emperor, Daryen Rhys the fifth .. vote aye, to condemn the Holy Empire of Achkaerin." he said, before he went on to sit down in his chair again and would wait for the other members of the General Assembly to cast their vote.
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OOC as Nord has pointed out I have put no closing for voting. Voting will close Friday at 9pm.
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"The Federation of the Dijel votes nay, on principal"

((OOC: Shite, typo :P ))
Edited by Dijel, 30th June 2015 - 04:22 PM.

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"The Federation of the Dijel votes may, on principal"


And we vote June! Or maybe August....

Sorry, where was I?

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The Dartfordian delegate stood up. "We have considered all the evidence presented to us, and the arguments made by both Nueva Ardia and the Holy Empire. We believe this is a matter that should be handled by an international tribunal, but we are also in no doubt that the Holy Empire have wronged, on a number of occasions, in this situation. We believe these actions to be very inconsistent and out of character for the Holy Empire, and therefore believe it would be unfair to join the bandwagon against them. Yet we cannot ignore the facts, Achkaerin did do wrong – so it would be unwise for us to vote against the resolution.

"Taking this all into account, I have been instructed by His Majesty's Government to abstain from this vote."
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Having listened to the statement made by the Achkaerin delegation and the votes and abstentions which followed Stacey stood to issue Rokkenjima's vote, or lack thereof.

"With the evidence presently available to us it is clear that both parties have contributed to the situation presently before us. Without an independent investigation, which Rokkenjima called for before this Resolution went to vote, the First Empire finds this Resolution biased and flawed. However, we recognize that the Holy Empire may have acted in such a manner which has breached standing international laws, conventions and norms. Therefore, on behalf of Her Imperial Majesty the Empress Beatrice the First Empire hereby abstains from this vote."

"Furthermore, the First Empire wishes to point out the hypocrisy, as Nueva Ardian forces utilized "direct military intervention within the Duchy of Marseille's Sovereign Borders", a matter which the First Empire has brought to the attention of the General Assembly. That Nueva Ardia has come before the General Assembly to condemn the Holy Empire for some of the same actions they, themselves have committed against a sovereign nation reeks of the highest levels of hypocrisy. Rokkenjima hopes that the General Assembly will wisely see that this discrepancy is rectified in the near future. Thank you."
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"Naturally Achkaerin votes nay but reminds the General Assembly once more that the investigation this Assembly has requested from numerous directions including my own, may impact the decision made here in the future. You may condemn a nation for seeming to do wrong today only to find out tomorrow that they acted with good intentions and reasons.

And if I may make a point to the UNP delegate- how do you present evidence to a body or organisation that does not exist?"
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The Seaforthian delegate stood up and cleared his throat. As he started his preamble, some small commotion could be heard outside the room.


"The Seaforth Confederation of Clans votes..."


The doors burst open and Admiral McKenna strode into the room.


"BELAY THAT! I will be making the statement on behalf of Seaforth."


The Seaforthian delegate's hand drifted up to rub the naval pin oh his lapel. Smiling slightly at the Admiral, the delegate gave a short, subtle bow, and offered the admiral his position. Returning the nod, Admiral McKenna addressed the general assembly, though it sounded like he was speaking directly to Nueva Ardia and Achkaerin, as though those nations were in fact people.


"The only question I have is...what the hell are you two thinking? Trading live fire now? Jesus Christ! You two sit on the damn SECURITY COUNCIL! You are supposed to be leaders! You are supposed to be setting an example for the rest of MUNDUS! You are supposed to be promoting and supporting the peace and stability of the world through strength, compassion and mercy! Not shooting up the Sea of Kyne like a couple of rednecks on fucking payday!"

Admiral McKenna raised a hand to forestall any argument and reached behind him for a sheaf of papers. Grabbing hold he tossed the sheaf onto the central floor of the general assembly.

"I have read the evidence and it's horse Shite. Horse Shite from both sides. I don't care who said what, I don't care who started it or how many times they violated this or that. I don't care what idiot sent a 14 year old into a conflict zone, let alone let one act as government representative. It doesn't matter and I don't care. That fact remains that your nations, both of them, have failed. As elected members of the security council you have failed in your duty to promote and support the peace and stability of the world, you have failed to uphold the tenants of the CTO, you have failed to find a means besides armed conflict to resolve your differences, you have failed in your roles as world leaders. People are dead due to your international dick measuring contest and your setting the stage for more to follow. Like I said, you idiots got yourselves here...you fix your Shite or someone will do it for you. Your people in leadership roles, the ones that got you here...if they have swords, falling on them might be a good start."

McKenna gave one final look of disgust at the delegates from Nueva Ardia and Achkaerin before tuning on his heel and marching out of the General Assembly. The Seaforthian Delegate cleared his throat and continued.

"Well,...I am simply unable to top that. The Seaforth Delegation abstains from this vote."
Edited by Rhodes, 2nd July 2015 - 03:01 PM.
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Voting is closed as the results are as follows.

Votes for the condemnation: 5 (EM, UNP, Cohdinia, South Hills, Vendosia)

Votes against the condemnation:- 2 (Dijel, Achkaerin)

Abstentiaons:- 4 (Dartfordia, Verover, Rokenjima, Seaforth)

Therefore the resolution to condemn Achkaerin has passed.
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Resolution #0001
Adopted by the General Assembly on 03/07/2015


The General Assembly,

Deeply Concerned at the use of direct military intervention by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin's within Nueva Ardia's Sovereign Borders, including the attack of military personnel by Holy Empire military personnel,

Concerned further at the attack of a civilian vessel by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin

Taking into account that such an attack is contrary to the Uppsala Convention,

1. Condemns these acts of terror by the Holy Empire of Achkaerin,

2. Orders the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to withdraw all military personnel and weaponry from Nueva Ardia,

3. Refers the actions of the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin to the Convention Advisory Committee for the Uppsala Conventions,

4. Demands that the Government of the Holy Empire of Achkaerin be prosecuted if found to be in breach of the Uppsala Convention by the Convention Advisory Committee.


Edited by DaveIronside, 3rd July 2015 - 10:10 PM.
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far be it from me to be pedantic but abstention wise it's four declared and eleven assumed due to lack of vote.
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