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Debate: The Constitutional Act of 2015
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Topic Started: 25th July 2015 - 08:42 PM (1,506 Views)
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Verover
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25th July 2015 - 08:42 PM
Post #1
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I Joined Feb. 6, 2014
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This bill was submitted by Senator Genstatum. It will be up for debate until at 08-10-2015.
- Quote:
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The Constitutional Act of 2015 (2015)
An Act to create a system would intend to reduce the number of people directly involved in government while simplifying the divisions between branches of government, and making it easier for the rank and file to participate in debates.
Whereas the Citizens of the Independent Order have requested and consented to the creation of an Act of the Senate of the Independent Order to give effect to the provisions hereinafter set forth that the Senate may graciously be pleased to debate this Bill in the Senate of the Independent Order:
Be it therefore enacted by Her Excellency the Grand Chancellor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and by the authority of the same, as follows:
Short Title
(1) This Act may be referred to as Government Reconstruction Act (2015).
Executive Branch
(2) The Executive Branch will be headed by Grand Chancellor, with an appointed Vice Chancellor directly below. They are in charge of Forum administration and moderating OCC actions.
(3) They will be directly above the ministers which can be for yet to be determined departments, such as the Ministry of Culture, Home Affairs, Foreign Affairs, Defense and Accountability.
(4) Each minister will be nominated by Grand Chancellor and the nominations will be voted upon by referendum.
(5) Each minister will serve for an indefinite period of time until they step down, are removed by the Chancellor, or if following a review by the Office of Accountability are found to be lacking in their performance of their duties.
(6) The Premier position will be eliminated.
(7) Office of Accountability will be responsible for fielding all complaints about the government, can recommend the removal of member of government, or in the event of an extreme case move to have them dismissed by referendum. Forum rules will also be maintained by this branch, and any changes to them will be voted on by referendum.
(8) Office of Accountability, which will be fielding suggestions about rule changes from the general public as well as hosting debates on the subject if there is enough interest, will also have the ability to institute a referendum to changes the rules if they believe that there is enough public opinion to warrant it.
Legislative Branch (9) This will be the RP council and will be responsible for the rules and moderation of all IC actions. Each member will be nominated by the Grand Chancellor and approved by referendum.
(10) They will serve for an indefinite period of time, until they step down from the position, are voted off by a majority of their peers or the Office of Accountability institutes a reelection for the council. Accountability can do this if there are enough valid complaints of favoritism, unfair dealings in general, or inactivity.
(11) All discussions by the RP council will be open to all members of the IO for discussion, but only the Councilors can officially change a draft, institute new legislation, or vote.
(12) The Senate and Citizens Assembly will be eliminated in favor of referendum voting and open access to discussion of topics.
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Federal Republic of Verover Est. 2015

Legislation
Curriculum Vitae Senator (1 Term) Speaker (1 Term)
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Achkaerin
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25th July 2015 - 08:46 PM
Post #2
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Hate to say it but since the Constitutional Settlement Act debate is still in progress (and yes it's on my to do list) this debate is moot especially since provisions of this legislation contradict the provisions of that piece of legislation.
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El Presidente
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26th July 2015 - 10:22 AM
Post #3
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I just want to say that, no matter what will come out on top, I endorse two main points about this, that seem very important to me. Firstly, the thinning of the government, so that less positions need to be filled and secondly the focus on Roleplay decisions.
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Glorious Vendosian Factbook
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Achkaerin
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29th July 2015 - 09:07 PM
Post #4
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I see no point in having two Acts before the Senate that seek to do the same thing but go about it in marked different ways. I suggest that we suspend discussions on both this Act and the Constitutional Settlement Act while myself and Genstatum try to negotiate a Bill that includes the aims of both implied Acts, if we can achieve that then the compromise should be submitted and the other withdrawn if we can't put something together then the two already submitted need to be weighed up and compared.
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Genstatum
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29th July 2015 - 11:10 PM
Post #5
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While I agree that two bills are unnecessary, I would prefer to keep all discussions about the merits of the bills in the public forum. That way any member of the Independent Order can comment and contribute to the advancement of the entire process.
To simplify things though, either one of us can begin by perhaps suggesting points of compromise between the two bills.
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Genstatum
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1st August 2015 - 11:01 PM
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Does anyone have anything that they wish to discuss pertaining to this legislation? I know some people wanted to propose changes.
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Achkaerin
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2nd August 2015 - 12:40 PM
Post #7
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Let's deal with this one area at a time- first the legislature
Gen you need to lay out a more precise process of what you're proposing in terms of passing legislation so I can weigh it against the CSA and consider what might be the best way forward.
Specifically any system needs to identify eligible membership, how the process works and what the safeguarding measures are.
Edited by Achkaerin, 2nd August 2015 - 12:56 PM.
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Genstatum
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3rd August 2015 - 10:56 PM
Post #8
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Well, in my proposed system there really isn't a legislature per say. This system would be moving the forum more towards a moderator system. Things pertaining to the RP would be passed in the manner currently used by the RP council and changes to OOC things would be organized by the Office of Accountability.
Currently anyone can propose something to the RP council, and it would stay the same as now with respect to proposals. If someone wanted something changed on the OOC side they would bring it up to the Office of Accountability who would organize a public discussion and then later move it to a referendum vote if warranted.
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Gadshack
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4th August 2015 - 02:03 AM
Post #9
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Jesus christ, does it really need to be any more obvious? We don't even need a traditional process for this because the government is so inactive and disenchanted with, notice you two are the only one's talking about this while most have lost interest completely and are busy roleplaying. There doesn't need to be a precise process or complicated anything for the new government because it's new function accommodates the regions general attitude and needs. We hardly need anything of a government.
All we need, is the RP council to assimilate into the legislature, removal of the Premier, reduction of some Ministries *looks at Defence* boom, done. It can be done and NO one will complain. Why? Because no one is participating in this debate beside you two xD
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CGJ
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4th August 2015 - 02:18 AM
Post #10
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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Gad does...admittedly...make a very good point.
I think we need to introduce a very simple system broken down into maybe 2-3 elements (forum admin, Roleplay, 'etc.'), but this is something that has dragged on for a ridiculously long period of time.
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 | The Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC Vice Chancellor
Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.
Submitted Legislation The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office) Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC). Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO). Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention. |
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Achkaerin
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4th August 2015 - 02:35 PM
Post #11
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Problem is that what Gen's proposing is and I'm sorry to say it naive at least in terms of the legislature.
So what would I do?- take the Regional Assembly section of the CSA and apply it, thus creating a legislature that anyone can join should they meet the minimum criteria (this allows for the regulation of said body by the office of accountability, AG etc.) we also have a handle on the membership number. We'd also avoid time consuming referendum's (the problem being that a referendum on an internet forum would require all sorts of caveats) keep it simple motion goes to a vote simple majority wins.
Executive- Removal of the Premier- this is either a good idea or a bad idea it just depends on how the legislature is to be protected, if we employ third party intervention whether it be from the Privy Council or those who hold ministerial portfolio's then the Premier removal works but if you don't want third party intervention then the only way to adequately protect is to make the Grand Chancellor's signature a mandatory criteria for legislation this then causes a problem because without a Premier the GC effectively becomes Premier by proxy in the same way that the VC becomes the VP by proxy so to give them the last say in that situation wouldn't be helpful in my view.
Now if the Premier position is abolished I would support the GC being able to appoint those people best suited to the existing positions of Culture, Foreign Affairs, Attorney General, Armed Forces. The reason is simple those are key positions and would be needed to handle the check and balance element. Plus if anyone ever does have a complaint about something best to have a body that can be independent to do the job. My point is that these are the positions best placed to handle OOC changes, the office of Accountability is best thought of as a body similar to that of the police, FBI or other law enforcement agency its purpose as far as I'm aware is the investigation of complaints not to organize things.
RP council into legislation- YES, I've been arguing for this from day one fairly certain I stated categorically the exact points Gen has made in a PM to Beatrice, we need to incorporate the Order that governs the RP council into a piece of legislation (with a few changes) that we then entrench and we need to vote on who should be on that council.
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Dijel
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4th August 2015 - 04:36 PM
Post #12
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Just realised this was in the public gallery 
I'm no expert, but I'd say the simpler the system we have in place, the better. Some regions do seem to get very caught up over the whole governance thing, but that doesn't really do much for me, and from what I can see, this seems to be a fairly widespread theme.
At current, it seems that the Roleplay council is far more important to the Order than any other branch of government. Logistically, we need admins and moderators, though I'd fancy a meritocratic system for this as far as possible, and the culture Ministry has got a decent track record, but otherwise most of out apparatus of government simply exists because we have decided that it should.
Case in point - the Defence Portfolio. Do we need it? Not as such, so long as we have an active founder nation. Has it done anything? One op, as far as I can remember, involving a handful of personnel going off somewhere to do something for some reason, with no tangible effect on the wider Order.
TL;DR - I pretty much agree with Gad and C.
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Old Sig, for Posterity
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Genstatum
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5th August 2015 - 11:09 AM
Post #13
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I submit the following updated draft for consideration (Thanks to CGJ for the formatting and suggestions):
- Quote:
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Constitution Act (2015)
An Act to counter the increasing disenfranchisement and disengagement by the members of the Independent Order towards the regional government by amending the Constitution of the Independent Order to abolish the Senate, Citizens’ Assembly, Judiciary and Premier, and incorporate Roleplay into the Constitution, and other such matters to allow for effective governance of the region.
Whereas an increasing number of members have become disenfranchised and disengaged with the political system of the Independent Order,
And whereas following said election period the Grand Chancellor and incumbent Premier ordered a review of the regional political system,
Be it therefore enacted by Her Excellency the Grand Chancellor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and by the authority of the same, as follows:
Short Title and Enactment
(1) This Act may be referred to as the Constitution Act (2015).
(2) This Act shall be enacted at the end of the term of the present Senate assembled.
(3) This Act shall be considered, for the purposes of the Constitution as enacted, as an Act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.
New Constitution
(4) The present Constitution of the Independent Order, and all subsequent amendments, shall be repealed and, in future legislation, be referred to as the ‘2013 Constitution’.
(5) The new Constitution of the Independent Order shall be included in Annex I of this Act.
Changes to Institutions
(6) The Senate, Premier’s Office, Citizens’ Assembly and Judiciary shall be abolished.
(7) The Roleplay Council shall become a Constitutional organisation.
(8) The role of the ‘Founder’ shall be abolished and merged into the position of Grand Chancellor.
Legislation
(9) A list of repealed Acts shall be included in Annex II.
(10) All Acts not listed in Section (9) shall be considered and referred to as Acts of the Chancellory.
(11) All Directives of the Roleplay Council shall be referred to as Acts of the Roleplay Council.
(12) A subsequent Act may be passed to provide amendments for existing Acts to ensure a smooth transition from the 2013 Constitution.
Annex I
The Constitution of the Independent Order
Preamble
The members of the Independent Order do adopt and ordain the following Constitution.
Article I: Chancellory
(1) The Grand Chancellor shall be the head of state of The Independent Order.
(2) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for forum administration and moderation, and safety of the declared assets of The Independent Order.
(3) The Grand Chancellor shall also be responsible for the creation, implementation and enforcement of the rules of the forum and IRC channel, in compliance with relevant Terms and Conditions.
(4) The Grand Chancellor shall, according to law, be responsible for the appointment of a Vice Chancellor. The Vice Chancellor shall, should the Grand Chancellor declare a leave of absence or in any other instance according to law, be responsible for carrying out the functions, duties and responsibilities of the Grand Chancellor, as regulated by law.
(5) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for the appointment and dismissal of members of the Privy Council. The Privy Council shall be responsible for advising the Grand Chancellor on all matters where sought.
(6) The Chancellory may initiate Acts of the Chancellory concerning the out of context operation of the forum, gameplay matters and all matters not covered by this Constitution. Such Acts must be opened to public consultation for a reasonable time, and may be rejected by Members of the Independent Order.
(7) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for appointing and dismissing Ministers, who shall be responsible for out of context operations and gameplay management. All Ministers shall sit on the Privy Council.
(8) The Grand Chancellor may not hold another office of the government of the Independent Order.
Article II: Roleplay Council
(9) The Roleplay Council shall be responsible for creating and implementing the Rules of Roleplay.
(10) Members of the Roleplay Council (Councillors) shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal or should they go inactive.
(11) Members of the Independent Order may submit Roleplay Rule amendments, motions and Acts, and may participate in Rolplay Council discussions. However, only Councillors may vote on such matters.
(12) Acts of the Roleplay Council may be vetoed by the Grand Chancellor, so long as such an Act does not receive more than two-thirds of votes in favour in the Roleplay Council. While amendments to the Roleplay Rules may be vetoed only if the Council has not voted unanimously in favour of such changes.
(13) The size, composition and procedures of the Roleplay Council may be determined by Acts of the Roleplay Council.
Article III: Accountability
(14) There shall be an Officer of Accountability, responsible for reviewing and investigating all complaints against the government.
(15) The Officer shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor, subject to a majority vote in the Roleplay Council, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal, vote of no confidence by the Roleplay Council or should they go inactive.
(16) The Officer may recommend to the Grand Chancellor, following an investigation, that a Minister or Councillor be dismissed. Should the Grand Chancellor reject such a recommendation, then the officer may call a referendum. Should members of the Independent Order vote in favour of the dismissal, then the Grand Chancellor shall be compelled to act.
(17) Should an Act of the Chancellory be initiated, then the Officer of Accountability shall manage a debate on the proposed Act, giving members sufficient time to consider the Act. If the proposed Act is supported by most members, then it shall be allowed to pass. However, should the Officer believe there to be significant opposition to a proposed Act, then they shall call a referendum on the matter. The result of the referendum shall be binding.
(18) Should a member be accused of breaching the Criminal Code, then the Officer shall, along with two members of the Privy Council, organise an investigation and trial of the accused member.
(19) Should a dispute arise regarding the interpretation of this Constitution, the Forum or IRC Chat Rules, the Roleplay Rules, the Criminal Code, an Act of the Roleplay Council or an Act of the Chancellory, then the Officer of Accountability shall, along with two members of the Privy Council, conduct a judicial review.
Article IV: Miscellaneous Provisions
(20) ‘Inactive’ shall be defined as a period exceeding seven (7) days whereby the member has not logged onto the forums, and has not declared leave of absence.
(21) Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed by any member of the Independent Order, but must receive at least two-thirds support from the Roleplay Council and the signature of the Grand Chancellor to come into effect. Should the Officer of Accountability believe there to be significant opposition to a proposed Act, then they shall call a referendum on the amendment. A referendum shall be regarded as being in lieu of the Roleplay Council’s vote.
Annex II
The list of repealed Acts is as follows: (1) The Representation of the People Act (2014). (2) The Representation of the People (Amendment) Act (2015). (3) Imperial Administration Act (2014) (4) Imperial Requisition Procedures Act (2014) (5) Senate Size Act (2014) (6) Senate Expansion Act (2014) (7) By-Election Procedures Act (2014) (8) The Order Prosecution Service Act (2015) (9) ZetaBoards Terms of Service Act (2015) (10) World Assembly Procedures Act (2014) (11) Judicial Procedures, Sentencing and Evidence Act (JPSE) (2014) (12) The Judiciary Act (2014)
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Achkaerin
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5th August 2015 - 12:38 PM
Post #14
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That's reckless, naive and severely full of holes. Expect a much better version when I get round to it.
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Achkaerin
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5th August 2015 - 01:38 PM
Post #15
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I see your draft and raise you this version.
- Quote:
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Eleventh Constitutional Amendment Act (2015)
An Act to counter the increasing disenfranchisement and disengagement by the members of the Independent Order towards the regional government by amending the Constitution of the Independent Order to abolish the Senate, Citizens’ Assembly, and Premier, to establish the Regional Assembly and incorporate the Roleplay Council into the Constitution, and other such matters to allow for effective governance of the region.
Whereas an increasing number of members have become disenfranchised and disengaged with the political system of the Independent Order,
And whereas following said election period the Grand Chancellor and incumbent Premier ordered a review of the regional political system,
Be it therefore enacted by Her Excellency the Grand Chancellor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and by the authority of the same, as follows:
Short Title and Enactment
(1) This Act may be referred to as the Eleventh Constitutional Amendment (2015).
(2) This Act shall be enacted at the end of the term of the present Senate assembled.
(3) This Act shall be considered, for the purposes of the Constitution as enacted, as an Act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.
New Constitution
(4) The present Constitution of the Independent Order, and all subsequent amendments, shall be repealed and, in future legislation, be referred to as the ‘2013 Constitution’.
(5) The new Constitution of the Independent Order shall be included in Annex I of this Act.
Changes to Institutions
(6) The Senate, Premier’s Office and Citizen’s Assembly shall be abolished.
(7) The Roleplay Council shall become an accountable organisation subject to the laws of the Order.
(8) The Regional Assembly is hereby established in place of the Senate and Citizen's Assembly.
(9) The role of the ‘Founder’ shall be abolished and merged into the position of Grand Chancellor.
Legislation
(10) A list of repealed Acts shall be included in Annex II.
(11) All Directives of the Roleplay Council shall be referred to as Acts of the Roleplay Council.
(12) All legislation not covered by section (10) shall be referred to as Acts of the Regional Assembly
(13) Subsequent legislation may be passed to ensure a smooth transition from the 2013 Constitution.
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Annex I
The Constitution of the Independent Order
Preamble
The members of the Independent Order do adopt and ordain the following Constitution.
Article I: Chancellery
(1) The Grand Chancellor shall be both the head of state and head of government of The Independent Order.
(2) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for forum administration and moderation, and safety of the declared assets of The Independent Order.
(3) The Grand Chancellor shall also be responsible for the implementation and enforcement of the rules of the forum and IRC channel, in compliance with relevant Terms and Conditions.
(4) The Grand Chancellor shall, according to law, be responsible for the appointment of a Vice Chancellor. The Vice Chancellor shall, should the Grand Chancellor declare a leave of absence or in any other instance according to law, be responsible for carrying out the functions, duties and responsibilities of the Grand Chancellor, as regulated by law.
(5) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for the appointment and dismissal of members of the Privy Council. The Privy Council shall be responsible for advising the Grand Chancellor on all matters where sought.
(6) The Grand Chancellor may not hold another office of the government of the Independent Order.
(7) The Grand Chancellor shall be commander-in chief of the Independent Order’s military forces.
Article II: Government
(8) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for appointing and dismissing Ministers, who shall be responsible for out of context operations and gameplay management. All Ministers shall sit on the Privy Council.
(9) Ministers appointed by the Grand Chancellor shall be Minister of Culture, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Defence and the Attorney General. These ministers shall be appointed for a life term until they resign, are dismissed or go inactive.
Article III: Regional Assembly
(10) The power to initiate legislation shall be reserved by the Regional Assembly.
(11) The Regional Assembly shall be composed of qualifying members of the Independent Order.
(12) A qualifying member is one that has been a member of the Independent Order for no less than fourteen (14) days, has made more than ten (10) non-spam posts on forums, is not presently serving a ban or other conviction within the region, and has not been expelled from the Regional Assembly.
(13) Members of the Regional Assembly shall be known as such, and shall automatically be granted the suffix ‘AM’.
(14) The Regional Assembly may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behaviour, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds or more of its members, expel a member.
(15) The Regional Assembly shall vote for a Speaker from their own ranks. Should the Regional Assembly be unable to determine a Speaker, after a period of seven (7) days, the Grand Chancellor shall appoint a member of the Regional Assembly to serve as Speaker.
(16) The Speaker shall, upon taking office, appoint an Assembly Member to serve as Deputy Speaker. Should the Speaker declare a leave of absence, the Deputy Speaker shall be responsible for carrying out the functions, duties and responsibilities of the Speaker.
(17) Should the Speaker resign, cease to be an Assembly Member, lose the confidence of the Assembly, go inactive, defined as not having logged into the forum for five (5) days, or otherwise be disqualified from the position of Speaker, they shall be deemed to have vacated the office, and the Deputy Speaker shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor to serve as Speaker. If the Deputy Speaker is on leave, goes inactive, loses the confidence of the Assembly, is otherwise disqualified from the position of Speaker, or does not wish to be appointed to this position, then fresh elections shall be held to elect a new Speaker.
(18) The Vice Chancellor, upon the written consent of the Grand Chancellor, shall be entitled to present legislation and participate in debates in the Assembly, but may not vote, participate in motions or use the suffix ‘AM’.
(19) An Assembly Member shall be deemed to have vacated their seat, should they go inactive for seven (7) days.
Article IV: Roleplay Council
(20) The Roleplay Council shall be responsible for matters relevant to the Regional Roleplay, hereby defined as ‘Matters on Mundus’
(21) The Roleplay Council shall be responsible for creating and implementing the Rules of Roleplay.
(22) Members of the Roleplay Council (Councillors) shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor subject to a vote of the Regional Assembly, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal or should they go inactive.
(23) Members of the Independent Order may submit Roleplay Rule amendments, motions and Acts, and may participate in Roleplay Council discussions. However, only Councillors may vote on such matters.
(24) Acts of the Roleplay Council may be vetoed by the Grand Chancellor, so long as such an Act does not receive more than two-thirds of votes in favour in the Roleplay Council. While amendments to the Roleplay Rules may be vetoed only if the Council has not voted unanimously in favour of such changes.
(25) The size, composition and procedures of the Roleplay Council shall be determined by governing legislation of the Roleplay Council.
Article V: Accountability
(26) There shall be an Officer of Accountability, responsible for reviewing and investigating all complaints against members of the Independent Order.
(27) The Officer shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor, subject to a majority vote in the Regional Assembly, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal, vote of no confidence by the Regional Assembly or should they go inactive.
(28) The Officer may recommend to the Grand Chancellor, following an investigation, that a Minister or Councillor be dismissed. Should the Grand Chancellor reject such a recommendation, then the officer may make the motion to the Regional Assembly. Should members of the Independent Order vote in favour of the dismissal, then the Grand Chancellor shall be compelled to act.
(29) Should a member be accused of breaching the Criminal Code, then the Officer shall, along with two members of the Privy Council, investigate the matter following which the matter shall be handed over to the Judiciary for trial.
(30) The Judiciary shall be responsible for determining the culpability of members of the Independent Order with regards to breaches of the Criminal Code
(31) Members of the Judiciary of the Independent Order shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor upon the recommendation of the Attorney General
(32) Should a dispute arise regarding the interpretation of this Constitution, the Forum or IRC Chat Rules, the Roleplay Rules, the Criminal Code, an Act of the Roleplay Council or an Act of the Chancellory, then the Lord Chief Justice or Attorney General shall commission a Judicical enquiry on the matter.
Article IV: Miscellaneous Provisions
(33) ‘Inactive’ shall be defined as a period exceeding seven (7) days whereby the member has not logged onto the forums, and has not declared leave of absence. Unless otherwise specifically stated
(34) Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed by any member of the Regional Assembly, but must receive at least two-thirds support from that body and the signature of the Grand Chancellor to come into effect. Should the Officer of Accountability believe there to be significant opposition to a proposed Act, then they shall call a review on the amendment. A review shall be carried out by the appointed Ministers and shall be regarded as being in lieu of the Regional Assembly’s vote.
(35) For the purposes of legislation this Constitution shall be regarded as entrenched, requiring the signature of the Grand Chancellor to amend or repeal whether in part or as a whole.
Annex II
The list of repealed Acts is as follows: (1) The Representation of the People Act (2014). (2) The Representation of the People (Amendment) Act (2015). (3) Imperial Administration Act (2014) (4) Imperial Requisition Procedures Act (2014) (5) Senate Size Act (2014) (6) Senate Expansion Act (2014) (7) By-Election Procedures Act (2014) (8) World Assembly Procedures Act (2014)
Let the debate begin.
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CGJ
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5th August 2015 - 05:06 PM
Post #16
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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- Achkaerin
- 5th August 2015 - 12:38 PM
That's reckless, naive and severely full of holes. Expect a much better version when I get round to it. Alright, dude...no need to insult it :/
Essentially I've modelled the Act on a new and simplified constitution. It reduced the number of provisions from 55 to 21, making it easier to read and understand.
Ultimately the version Gen and I have presented represents the shift from gameplay/OOC style government to Roleplay-style government. Because, if we're honest, nobody here (besides perhaps...3 people?) really cares about gameplay, and it's obvious that many members would prefer simply abandoning the government-esc system and simply using the Roleplay Council. On top of that, many areas (Citizens' Assembly, Senate, Judiciary) are mostly (if not completely) inactive. And considering the CC will be downsized as many provisions will be replaced by forum rules, an independent Judiciary just seems relatively moot.
Of course this is open for debate, and I hope other members can get involved with this discussion as w move towards a final draft.
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 | The Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC Vice Chancellor
Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.
Submitted Legislation The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office) Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC). Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO). Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention. |
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Achkaerin
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5th August 2015 - 05:16 PM
Post #17
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Yes but the fact remains that whether we like it or not by simply existing we are tied into the gameplay aspect so you need the appointed ministers there and you need functions in place to protect against that aspect of NS. So even if we want to focus more on our RP we need to be able to handle the gameplay from a purely defensive point of view.
Secondly the idea that an un-elected and presently illegal body should be entitled to exceed its remit and nominate the people for positions outside the bounds of roleplay is frankly insulting and unfair, we have long maintained separation between the gameplay and RP and so it should continue. The RP Council's remit is RP matters such as GDP per capita in the RP it is not to determine this region's relations with other regions such as those we have embassies with- that is a matter for the GC, government and a legislative body that handles matters outside the RP.
Removal of the Judiciary is dangerous, I hope we never need to have a court case but should it be required we at least have legislation that can be used as a standard, we have a process where the Office of Accountability investigates, the judiciary makes a determination and the Chancellery then carries out sentence.
Added to this point who's going to carry out action against the Chancellery if the Chancellery (the govt) is also the Judiciary? Since I hardly think it appropriate for anyone in the executive to handle that- it needs to be an independent body and that is the Judiciary. You get rid of the JPSE, Judiciary Act and by implication Judiciary and you remove the protection that the members of this region have and their ability to see fairness prevail over what going by Gen's proposal equates to nothing short of a dictatorship.
And as for referendum's well serious problems there- we're talking voter registration, question negotiations, voting periods each and every time with a fluctuating membership essentially what can be done inside a week taking up to months with all the variables that would be in play, plus you severely increase the possibility of abuse via vote stack, so you need a body that controls this and that's simply accomplished by establishing the Regional Assembly.
What Gen is proposing is based on an assumption of who is specifically occupying certain positions which is a fundamental flaw of the entire thing. What I am proposing is a system with fail safes that simplifies the government, regulates the devolved bodies and keeps the RP and OOC separate, it's the more viable of the two from any objective standpoint a position further helped when coupled with an Entrenchment Act and Roleplay Council Act which would be where subsequent legislation comes into play.
Edited by Achkaerin, 5th August 2015 - 05:31 PM.
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Verover
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5th August 2015 - 05:35 PM
Post #18
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I Joined Feb. 6, 2014
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Personally, I believe that the additions made by Achkaerin add more unnecessary buerocracy. I also agree with the viewpoint that less government is better. So, I hereby motion to move Genstatum's proposal to vote in the Senate.
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Federal Republic of Verover Est. 2015

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Curriculum Vitae Senator (1 Term) Speaker (1 Term)
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Achkaerin
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5th August 2015 - 05:59 PM
Post #19
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For the record the only addition to my Bill that is any different to what we presently have is the incorporation of the Role Play Council, the rest is a simple formality of stuff that should have been done ages ago. And I'm sorry but this is not a matter for a Senate vote. Additionally since the proposed Bill has only been here a matter of hours as opposed to the minimum required three days it can't be moved to a vote yet anyway.
And if it does go to a Senate vote then I as Attorney General will urge the Grand Chancellor in the strongest possible terms not to sign it into law until the major flaws are addressed.
Edited by Achkaerin, 5th August 2015 - 06:07 PM.
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Gadshack
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5th August 2015 - 07:58 PM
Post #20
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I motion for Genstatum's act.
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Genstatum
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5th August 2015 - 09:47 PM
Post #21
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Whether or not we wait the 3 days is merely a matter of formality at this point. Whether or not we wait, my vote on the matter remains the same. This bill will allow the new government to more effectively govern the forum and remove a lot of useless bureaucracy that has gotten in the way of progress in the past. In addition, the general approval of the central tenants of this bill, as show by the contributions of both senators and general members of the Independent Order, adds to the legitimacy of this bill. I have confidence that the new system will allow us to act in a manner more befitting what is needed and to adapt to any and all unexpected situations.
Assuming that we are voting for the amended version (show below), I vote AYE.
- Quote:
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Constitution Act (2015)
An Act to counter the increasing disenfranchisement and disengagement by the members of the Independent Order towards the regional government by amending the Constitution of the Independent Order to abolish the Senate, Citizens’ Assembly, Judiciary and Premier, and incorporate Roleplay into the Constitution, and other such matters to allow for effective governance of the region.
Whereas an increasing number of members have become disenfranchised and disengaged with the political system of the Independent Order,
And whereas following said election period the Grand Chancellor and incumbent Premier ordered a review of the regional political system,
Be it therefore enacted by Her Excellency the Grand Chancellor, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, and by the authority of the same, as follows:
Short Title and Enactment
(1) This Act may be referred to as the Constitution Act (2015).
(2) This Act shall be enacted at the end of the term of the present Senate assembled.
(3) This Act shall be considered, for the purposes of the Constitution as enacted, as an Act to amend the Constitution of the Independent Order.
New Constitution
(4) The present Constitution of the Independent Order, and all subsequent amendments, shall be repealed and, in future legislation, be referred to as the ‘2013 Constitution’.
(5) The new Constitution of the Independent Order shall be included in Annex I of this Act.
Changes to Institutions
(6) The Senate, Premier’s Office, Citizens’ Assembly and Judiciary shall be abolished.
(7) The Roleplay Council shall become a Constitutional organisation.
(8) The role of the ‘Founder’ shall be abolished and merged into the position of Grand Chancellor.
Legislation
(9) A list of repealed Acts shall be included in Annex II.
(10) All Acts not listed in Section (9) shall be considered and referred to as Acts of the Chancellory.
(11) All Directives of the Roleplay Council shall be referred to as Acts of the Roleplay Council.
(12) A subsequent Act may be passed to provide amendments for existing Acts to ensure a smooth transition from the 2013 Constitution.
Annex I
The Constitution of the Independent Order
Preamble
The members of the Independent Order do adopt and ordain the following Constitution.
Article I: Chancellory
(1) The Grand Chancellor shall be the head of state of The Independent Order.
(2) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for forum administration and moderation, and safety of the declared assets of The Independent Order.
(3) The Grand Chancellor shall also be responsible for the creation, implementation and enforcement of the rules of the forum and IRC channel, in compliance with relevant Terms and Conditions.
(4) The Grand Chancellor shall, according to law, be responsible for the appointment of a Vice Chancellor. The Vice Chancellor shall, should the Grand Chancellor declare a leave of absence or in any other instance according to law, be responsible for carrying out the functions, duties and responsibilities of the Grand Chancellor, as regulated by law.
(5) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for the appointment and dismissal of members of the Privy Council. The Privy Council shall be responsible for advising the Grand Chancellor on all matters where sought.
(6) The Chancellory may initiate Acts of the Chancellory concerning the out of context operation of the forum, gameplay matters and all matters not covered by this Constitution. Such Acts must be opened to public consultation for a reasonable time, and may be rejected by Members of the Independent Order.
(7) The Grand Chancellor shall be responsible for appointing and dismissing Ministers, who shall be responsible for out of context operations and gameplay management. All Ministers shall sit on the Privy Council.
(8) The Grand Chancellor may not hold another office of the government of the Independent Order.
Article II: Roleplay Council
(9) The Roleplay Council shall be responsible for creating and implementing the Rules of Roleplay.
(10) Members of the Roleplay Council (Councillors) shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal or should they go inactive.
(11) Members of the Independent Order may submit Roleplay Rule amendments, motions and Acts, and may participate in Rolplay Council discussions. However, only Councillors may vote on such matters.
(12) Acts of the Roleplay Council may be vetoed by the Grand Chancellor, so long as such an Act does not receive more than two-thirds of votes in favour in the Roleplay Council. While amendments to the Roleplay Rules may be vetoed only if the Council has not voted unanimously in favour of such changes.
(13) The size, composition and procedures of the Roleplay Council may be determined by Acts of the Roleplay Council.
Article III: Accountability
(14) There shall be an Officer of Accountability, responsible for reviewing and investigating all complaints against the government.
(15) The Officer shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor, subject to a majority vote in the Roleplay Council, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal, vote of no confidence by the Roleplay Council or should they go inactive.
(16) The Officer may recommend to the Grand Chancellor, following an investigation, that a Minister or Councillor be dismissed. Should the Grand Chancellor reject such a recommendation, then the officer may call a referendum. Should members of the Independent Order vote in favour of the dismissal, then the Grand Chancellor shall be compelled to act.
(17) Should an Act of the Chancellory be initiated, then the Officer of Accountability shall manage a debate on the proposed Act, giving members sufficient time to consider the Act. If the proposed Act is supported by most members, then it shall be allowed to pass. However, should the Officer believe there to be significant opposition to a proposed Act, then they shall call a referendum on the matter. The result of the referendum shall be binding.
(18) Should a member be accused of breaching the Criminal Code, then the Officer shall, along with two members of the Privy Council, organise an investigation and trial of the accused member.
(19) Should a dispute arise regarding the interpretation of this Constitution, the Forum or IRC Chat Rules, the Roleplay Rules, the Criminal Code, an Act of the Roleplay Council or an Act of the Chancellory, then the Officer of Accountability shall, along with two members of the Privy Council, conduct a judicial review.
Article IV: Miscellaneous Provisions
(20) ‘Inactive’ shall be defined as a period exceeding seven (7) days whereby the member has not logged onto the forums, and has not declared leave of absence.
(21) Amendments to this Constitution may be proposed by any member of the Independent Order, but must receive at least two-thirds support from the Roleplay Council and the signature of the Grand Chancellor to come into effect. Should the Officer of Accountability believe there to be significant opposition to a proposed Act, then they shall call a referendum on the amendment. A referendum shall be regarded as being in lieu of the Roleplay Council’s vote.
Annex II
The list of repealed Acts is as follows: (1) The Representation of the People Act (2014). (2) The Representation of the People (Amendment) Act (2015). (3) Imperial Administration Act (2014) (4) Imperial Requisition Procedures Act (2014) (5) Senate Size Act (2014) (6) Senate Expansion Act (2014) (7) By-Election Procedures Act (2014) (8) The Order Prosecution Service Act (2015) (9) ZetaBoards Terms of Service Act (2015) (10) World Assembly Procedures Act (2014) (11) Judicial Procedures, Sentencing and Evidence Act (JPSE) (2014) (12) The Judiciary Act (2014)
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Achkaerin
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5th August 2015 - 10:06 PM
Post #22
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Ok bear minimum changes to make this work:
On the basis that I'm seeing references to trials and Judicial Reviews in the proposal:
Remove JPSE and Judiciary Act from Annex II and add them under an Annex III which amends existing legislation
Amendment to the Judiciary Act- Sections 1-10 and sections 19-20 are repealed
This eliminates everything except the article relevant to Judicial Inquiry which is effectively the same as a Judicial review, more precise amendments to that article could be done following the passage of the Act.
Amendments to JPSE- repeal the following sections
- Section 13-22 (this is the trial process and bail which will need redrafting in a more simplistic way)
- Section 30-36
- Section 63-65
Essentially these amendments eliminate the case at first instance process (the one everyone calls lengthy but I call fair an thorough) thus allowing the Chancellery and PC to act as the court if required. While retaining what should be the transparency of the submission of the indictment, the recording of a case report in the precedent archive, the right of the accused to have someone speak on their behalf use witness's etc.
Essentially we retain the guidelines for the crucial factors while eliminating those we don't need thus ensuring that there is a uniform set of rules for such matters that everyone has access to.
And we don't repeal legislation that outlines process's we would need to know about and therefore we don't waste time actually having to re-pass existing legislation further down the line.
Now to address my big concern with the current draft
Role Play Council by its very name implies governance of Role Play matters now if I'm reading this draft correctly we have that council being put in possession of powers that exceed it's mandate therefore making it cease to exist as a Role Play Council and more akin to something like the present Senate.
So separate the Acts relevant to the OOC legislation and put them in the Privy Council domain and let that be the OOC legislative body which can discuss OOC legislation that's bound to be initiated by the Chancellery - the PC already exists and this is essentially the function it is used to performing. Meanwhile the RP Council can stick to its remit and not need to be subjected a striking of its membership and reappointing due to an expanded remit.
Common sense would also suggest the following as other amendments: (changes highlighted in gold)
(15) The Officer shall be appointed by the Grand Chancellor, subject to a majority vote in the Privy Council, and shall serve an indefinite term until their resignation, dismissal, vote of no confidence by the Privy Council or should they go inactive.
Section 17- needs clarity on what 'significant opposition to a proposed Act' is
Additionally the most likely legislation we would need to pass to transition would include the amendments alluded to above as well as a Roleplay Council Act, Entrenchment Act, Referendum Act- and that's just what I can think of now.
Edited by Achkaerin, 5th August 2015 - 10:28 PM.
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Gadshack
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19th August 2015 - 03:39 PM
Post #23
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How about we pull our balls out the beans and push this through the Senate's proverbial rectum aye? AYE? AYE!
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Achkaerin
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19th August 2015 - 08:08 PM
Post #24
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Unfortunately due process is due process- we don't have the requisite number of Senators to push anything like this through at the moment and I wouldn't want to push through something that brings about negative rather than positive change anyway. Address the problems with this and we get somewhere.
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CGJ
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20th August 2015 - 12:39 AM
Post #25
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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I mean maybe we could just go with this (it took me about 2 minutes to write, Gad can attest):
- Quote:
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Charter of the Independent Order
The Government of the Independent Order consists of three parts: The Chancellory The Roleplay Council The Regional Assembly
The Chancellor shall consist of the Grand Chancellor, Vice Chancellor, and any other such members appointed to it.
The Chancellory is responsible for establishing rules for and maintaining the forum, and dealing with gameplay aspects of the region, including the management of the founder account on Nation States.
The Roleplay Council is responsible for the creation and implementation of Roleplay Rules. The details of the RP Council shall be outlined in a separate charter. All changes to the RP rules must be approved by the Grand Chancellor.
The Regional Assembly shall be an open forum for all members of the Independent Order. They can use this forum to question the work of the Chancellory or Roleplay Council, to discuss changes to the RP rules, respond to consultations from the Chancellory or Roleplay Council, or discuss any other such matter.
Anyone appointed to serve within the Chancellory or on the Roleplay Council, with the exception of the Grand Chancellor and owner of the forum’s founding administrator account, may be removed from office following a vote of no confidence in the Regional Assembly.
Changes to this Charter must be approved by a referendum of members in the Regional Council, and by the Grand Chancellor.
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 | The Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC Vice Chancellor
Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.
Submitted Legislation The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office) Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC). Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO). Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention. |
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Achkaerin
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20th August 2015 - 08:20 AM
Post #26
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So we'd have an RP council and a Regional Assembly that presumably must be responsible for OOC legislation... didn't I suggest this?
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Gadshack
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21st August 2015 - 05:14 AM
Post #27
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Well then you can consider your suggestion taken? No need to be offended.
Anyway, let's get this though, please.
Edited by Gadshack, 21st August 2015 - 05:15 AM.
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Achkaerin
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21st August 2015 - 08:40 AM
Post #28
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I think this is probably the right thing to do in terms of making a positive progressive change. But let's just be clear what we're suggesting with this now-
The Regional Assembly would be the OOC legislature where anyone doesn't matter if your the GC, minister or an ordinary citizen can submit legislation, debate legislation and vote on legislation. I would also suggest that any statute governing the Regional Assembly be a modified version of the relevant article from the Constitutional Settlement Act. But that's probably a matter for secondary legislation following passage of this Act.
The RP Council remains as is- the only difference appears to be that the GC has been granted a veto over RP matters which is understandable. I do think again we're talking secondary legislation to ensure accountability of the RP Council probably in some form of Roleplay Governance Act.
Now the query I have is 'those appointed to serve within the Chancellery' since we're presumably still abolishing the position of Premier with this I assume that should ministerial portfolio's remain that these portfolio's would fall into this category.
And a final point- "Changes to this Charter must be approved by a referendum of members in the Regional Council, and by the Grand Chancellor."
I'm assuming should read "Changes to this Charter must be approved by a referendum of members in the Regional Assembly, and by the Grand Chancellor."
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CGJ
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9th September 2015 - 10:29 PM
Post #29
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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Let's give this a try:
- Quote:
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Charter of the Independent Order
In order to run the forum in an effective and democratic way, the members and staff of the Independent Order have adopted this Charter, which sets out the institutions and rules of government.Structure The government of the Independent Order is made up of the:
- Chancellory;
- Regional Assembly; and
- Roleplay Council
Chancellory
- The Chancellory shall consist of the Grand Chancellor, Vice Chancellor, the forum founder and any other such members appointed to it.
- The Chancellory is responsible for establishing rules for and maintaining the forum, and dealing with gameplay aspects of the region, including the management of the founder account on Nation States.
- The Grand Chancellor shall have the right to veto any change to this Charter, the Roleplay Rules, or any other regional Charter.
Regional Assembly
- The Regional Assembly shall be an open forum for all members of the Independent Order, regardless of their post count or length of membership, excluding banned members or diplomatic representatives from other regions.
- Members can use this forum to question the work of the Chancellory or Roleplay Council, to discuss changes to the Forum Rules, respond to consultations from the Chancellory or Roleplay Council, write and debate legislation regarding gameplay matters, and exercise any other power given to the Regional Assembly.
- The details of the Regional Assembly are outlined in a separate Charter, which can be found here.
Roleplay Council
- The Roleplay Council shall consist of members appointed by the Chancellory, and approved by the Regional Assembly.
- Councillors will be responsible for the creation, interpretation implementation of Roleplay Rules, and all related legislation.
- The details of the RP Council are outlined in a separate Charter, which can be found here.
Miscellaneous
- Anyone appointed to serve within the Chancellory or on the Roleplay Council, with the exception of the Grand Chancellor and owner of the forum’s founding administrator account, may be removed from office following a vote of no confidence in the Regional Assembly.
- Changes to this Charter must be approved by a vote of members in the Regional Assembly, and by the Grand Chancellor.
- The governing Charters of the Regional Assembly and Roleplay Council shall be considered as having the same legal authority as this Charter.
- The Zetaboards Terms of Service and Terms of Use must be abided by at all times, by all members. Should a member break either the ToS or ToU, the forum administrators reserve the right to ban them immediately and indefinitely.
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 | The Most Honourable Marquess CGJ PC Vice Chancellor
Coauthor of the Order's most viewed vignette series: Beaxander, as well as BeaXtra, 50 Shades of Chalk and Beaxotica.
Submitted Legislation The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office) Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC). Member of the Cultural Exchange Treaty Organisation (CETO). Signatory to the Mundus Convention on Universal Rights (MCUR), Fair Seas Concordat (FSC) and Uppsala Convention. |
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Morganus
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15th September 2015 - 07:44 AM
Post #30
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As we are in a new term of Senate... let's carry on with this, please!
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Achkaerin
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15th September 2015 - 08:09 AM
Post #31
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I don't see why not though there are certain administrative matters that need taking care of while we do so.
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Achkaerin
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16th September 2015 - 09:29 AM
Post #32
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Right I'm going to ask the new Senators (Dave, Morganus, Cool and Zach) are you happy with the charter C has proposed? If you are then I'd like you to indicate so that we can get around to putting this into a legislation format and also so that we can then start a discussion in the Senate on the two associated charters (once the maskings are sorted).
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Morganus
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16th September 2015 - 10:09 AM
Post #33
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Yes I am. Let's do this!
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DaveIronside
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16th September 2015 - 02:17 PM
Post #34
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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Can I suggest we start this in a new thread with the first post being what the current front runner in terms of legislation is
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Achkaerin
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16th September 2015 - 02:33 PM
Post #35
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Once the Chancellery sorts out the masking stuff that will be the plan.
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