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DEBATE - Recogntion of Northern Borland
Topic Started: 30th November 2015 - 10:06 PM (1,743 Views)
NordicPeoples
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Formal Name of Submitting Nation(s): Zimalia
Nations involved: Principality of Northern Borland
Title of Submission: Recognition of Northern Borland
Draft Resolution:

Commonwealth Treaty Organisation
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Resolution [XXXX]

Adopted by the General Assembly on [Date]


The General Assembly

Recognizing that a sovereign nation may legally sell its own land to other nations

Aware that said land becomes the territory of the buying nation should an agreement exist between the two

Confirming that such an agreement exists between Zimalia and the Principality of Northern Borland

Informing The Commonwealth Treaty Organisation that the nation of Zimalia has granted the Principality of Northern Borland the rights of a sovereign nation

1. Desire that the people of the Principality of Northern Borland should be permitted to live in peace.

2. Establish formal recognition of the Principality of Northern Borland as a sovereign state.

3. Commit to integrating the nation into the international community

4. Require nations to recognise their signatures on the Uppsala Convention, Fair Seas Concordt and Mundus Convention of Univeral Rights
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"Odmony does not feel that now, nor ever, is a proper time to grant recognition to a terrorist organization. Meeting the demands of Kyle Barren and the Borlanders only legitimizes their pattern of politically motivated violence."




OOC: Odmony's not fond of terrorists, be they retired or not. And what reason does Odmony have to think he's actually changed? ;)
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OOC- Not sure if your aware Sekkanar or whether it would influence what you wrote, however in front of impartial international witnesses the Borlanders have destroyed significant amounts of offensive weapons such as missiles, improvised mortars etc.
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OOC: Orana wouldn't care, the Sorority event has made a hardliner of her.
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Cheryl Holmes, Minister for Commonwealth Affairs and Lead Achkaerin General Assembly Delegate

Cheryl sighed and shook her head, this motion was one the international community had probably been worried about for a while especially because it at least legally painted East Moreland as the bad guys so this was going to take some diplomatic wrangling.

"The resolution is in a legal sense correct and that is what we have to firstly accept whilst also separating legalities from morality. It is correct that the Government of Zimalia can sell land they own if they wish to do so, now we can advise them not to sell it to certain people but they are obliged to listen to us, therefore though it be ill conceived there is nothing wrong with the sale of land from Zimalia to Kyle Barren, it happened and there is probably a contract that can be produced if we want to see it- fact is that there's no accounting for foolish government ministers but it doesn't change the indisputable fact that legally that land belongs to Kyle Barren. We can't just bend international laws because we don't like it.

Let's be clear what the legal minefield is here firstly is this so called Principality of Northern Borland a sovereign nation- if you accept that the transfer of land and contract between Kyle Barren and the Zimalian Government as truth then yes on the international precedents we have for autonomous regions it could be considered sovereign, on the other hand if it isn't sovereign then it's still Zimalian territory.

We've all seen Kyle Barren and the Borlanders play this nice guy card before he signs the right documents, says the right things and then relapses back to his usual self. However those signatures on the MCUR, FSC and Uppsala Convention are all valid if you accept the sovereignty of the Principality and with that validity comes the enforcement mechanisms.

what is the purpose of this resolution? I believe having read it that it looks very much like a trap for us- and it's a trap we can't help but fall into either way our friends in East Moreland are going to get hurt by this- if we pass this resolution then East Moreland will have to answer for violations under the MCUR and Uppsala Convention, if we don't then the actions for which they would have to answer for would be considered as having happened on Zimalian soil and that in itself brings about a massive problem of its own since Zimalia could then move for a condemnation of East Moreland in this very room and legally that is a motion which this organization would have to support, because to resist such a motion would set a very poor precedent."
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Harald Harofsson - UNP delegate (and to try and stir this a little)



"While I agree that the Borlanders are morally bankrupt in many respects there are many examples of other nations out there that have been formally recognised who are just as reprehensible, the former USR, before it collapse sat amongst the nations who were members of this groups predecessors, yet I am pushed to find someone who would speak in their defence, meanwhile we currently have Zachachevania fighting wars purely for economic gain, yet they would not be kept out of this organisation should they wish to join. Sadly I believe Ms.Holmes has it correct in a legal sense this is correct, however law and morality are often separated. Should this land sale be legal, and I see no reason why Zimalia would say it is if it were not, and that the "Principality" have been given rights to govern themselves, which again if Zimalia are saying so then we must assume is correct, then I see how we can ignore this resolution.

As for East Moreland being the victim of a resolution of condemnation, well any nation, even non members can propose a resolution, should they wish to have us condemn East Moreland they could easily have brought that before us."
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"Quite simply the Borland Separatists are recognized as a terrorist enterprise by an overwhelming majority of the international community, having committed acts of violence and carnage against many of the states sitting in this Assembly today. Zimalia's sale of land to the Separatists is irrelevant as the land in question was transferred to a terrorist organisation, with funds which, let's be honest, we can almost be certain were acquired through criminal activity. The entire sale therefore stands on dubious grounds both legally and morally, with any 'legitimacy' sought by the Separatists serving as a continued mockery of the international community."

"As for a 'trap' I feel we can quite easily avoid that situation as well by recognizing the circumstances for what they actually are: Zimalia harbouring some of the most wanted men and women throughout Mundus, including a man whom is wanted first by East Moreland and by Rokkenjima for a series of crimes committed against our Peoples. Zimalia, in its decision to grant safe harbour to the Separatists has become an accomplice in the several acts of terrorism carried out by the Separatists and should be recognized as such. Granting any level of recognition to a terrorist enterprise as a sovereign state, or entertaining the idea that Zimalia has a case against East Moreland do little to solve the problem before us."

Stacey paused, "Granting terrorist enterprises any avenues towards legitimacy is a precedent the international community cannot afford to put into place. We must address terrorists, and those who harbour them, as common threats to the very values this Organisation is based upon, tackling directly the threat they pose to international peace and stability. Thus, the First Empire shall not lend its support to any measure which would grant even a shred of legitimacy to a terrorist enterprise. The only recognition this Assembly should confer upon the Borland Separatists is one which a majority of nations have: as a terrorist enterprise which must be wholly destroyed."
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"And there you have the problem" Cheryl said looking at the Rokkenjiman delegation "No one here is morally speaking even likely to confer the rights of a sovereign nation to what is a terrorist organisation but even in that instance if we do not place on record our disapproval as an organisation of East Moreland's actions then we're creating a very dangerous precedent.

The point is that if we don't register this, then I have to ask what's to stop let's say Achkaerin operating a military operation in let's say Rokkenjima without the consent of the Rokkenjiman government? If we do nothing here then absolutely nothing prevents that because the precedent established is one of tolerance as opposed to disapproval.

We are not here to pass judgement on the foolishness or otherwise of the Zimalian government, the fact is they sold the land to Kyle Barren and even if we don't recognize that as sovereign territory of Borland then East Moreland has effectively carried out a military incursion into the territory of another sovereign state- that is an act of war and as a member of this organisation East Moreland is answerable to this Assembly for their actions.

The fact is that a condemnation resolution would likely be brought if we decide not to pass this resolution because in not passing it we effectively say that in the eyes of this organisation the land in question is the sovereign territory of Zimalia."
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OOC: For the record, Tytor's official representative is Ambassador Horatio Appleby

"What I would like to know is this," Appleby said, "Since when has the CTO been in the business of dictating international relations at all? Isn't that something that should be left to the nations in question? I don't think we should even be discussing this, as it's quite outside the CTO's authority to enforce."
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"Not necessarily Mr Appleby" Cheryl said "Let's be clear what this resolution is about- it concerns at the lowest common denominator a request for the recognition of a new country as sovereign. Such recognition by this organisation considering the nations that comprise the membership would legitimize what legal foundation there already is. Now before we get into the issue that this resolution if passed would give in the eyes of this organisation recognition to a terrorist organisation let's revisit the legal points-

firstly does a contract of sale and purchase exist between the two parties? Yes clearly one does otherwise this isn't brought

secondly in such a circumstance would it be internationally considered as a new nation? Potentially yes in a similar way that Nya Aland is considered independent of the UNP or Floodwater is considered an autonomous region of Tytor- referendum result not withstanding of course.

So applying all of that to the resolution presented to us including the bestowing of sovereign rights by Zimalia, we have a situation where the 'Principality of Northern Borland' meets all the legal criteria to be a sovereign state now if you don't mind I'd very much like to wash the foul taste those words have out of my mouth."

Cheryl proceeded to pick up her glass of water and gulp down about a third of it before taking a breath and continuing her statement

"There is no other forum where this could be presented and whether we like it or not it is here in front of us and we need to consider how we act on this very carefully."
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"I don't think you quite understand what I'm saying, Ms. Holmes," Appleby replied, "These, er, 'Borlanders' have made a claim for sovereign status. Recognition of this falls into the field of international relations. Unless I am much mistaken, every nation here has a governmental department focused on international relations. This body is not intended to be a replacement for those departments, and thus should not be imposing its will on whether or not one nation recognizes another as legitimate and/or independent. That, ma'am, falls to the individual nations that make up this body. To have this body decide otherwise would be to infringe upon the sovereignty of its members. On those grounds, I have half a mind to move for the immediate dismissal of this resolution here and now."
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"And to not have this body decide would be to infringe on the sovereignty and benefits thereof of the 'Borlanders'" Cheryl said "You are correct in that it is within the remit of each governments international relations or foreign affairs office to advise on such an issue as this but if left solely to them in this instance you will get a division of opinion as we've said morally it is unacceptable but legally it is correct. If for example Achkaerin were to recognize this as sovereign but obviously East Moreland does not then does that clear this up? Does that one nation's recognition amount to giving the Principality of Northern Borland the right to sign the CTO Charter and send representatives here?

No on this a consensus is required such is the volatility of the issue and as the leading organisation on Mundus with the largest membership that is a consensus that can most easily be achieved here."
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"Divisions of opinion are wholly acceptable, morally or otherwise," Appleby said, "Without them, there would be no such thing as debate or democracy. The resolution we are debating right now is about whether or not the CTO should require all of its members to recognize the sovereignty of what amounts to a small city completely surrounded by Zimalia. It has absolutely nothing to do with admittance to this body, which may well not even be in the cards for the 'Borlanders'. If what we are supposed to be debating is whether or not the 'Borlanders' should be admitted to the CTO, then maybe we should amend the resolution to that effect. A nation can, in fact, be a member of this organization, even if some other members do not recognize its existence.[1] In the mean time, I do not think we should be imposing recognition on anyone, no matter how noble Kyle Barren's intentions may be."
[1] OOC: For a real-world example, see North and South Korea within the United Nations.
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"So we're supposed to accept that the CTO should trump members national sovereignty when it is convenient simply because this organisation currently lacks a suitable mechanism for the determining whether a state meets the requirements to be recognised?

Let us not fool ourselves here. Nations which do not wish to recognise the Borlander state will not do so simply because of a resolution, and in what way would it be at all enforceable other than allowing them membership of the organisation? There is potential for such an event to cause a rift in the CTO that would undermine its core mission of promoting cooperation between the nations of the world.

We suggest a more pragmatic solution. We abandon this foolish endeavor and focus our attention on developing criteria for recognition in contentious cases. We would propose for example that a nation becomes eligible for membership at the point a threshold number of existing members recognises them is reached. This way we will not only avoid the potentially damaging fallout that this contentious resolution will bring but turn it in to an opportunity to strengthen this organisation and improve its resilience.

However we understand if some here may be reluctant to walk away without any practical resolution to the Borlander issue. We would suggest perhaps allowing them to become non-member signatories to the various treaties that would obligate them to behave according to international norms. This would allow a compromise situation that would facilitate the eventual normalisation of relations with the state and with membership as a possibility in the future."
Edited by Astetoth, 3rd December 2015 - 06:28 PM.

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"The point Mr Appleby is that to all intents and purposes this resolution is a resolution about the Principality being admitted being admitted, remember that any recognized sovereign state may sign the charter and join the organization, given that Kyle Barren's signature is on the MCUR, FSC and Uppsala Convention I believe it's quite likely that his next step would be signing the Commonwealth treaty the only obstacle he has in this is the significant difference of opinion that exists in this room between the various delegations as to whether or not the Principality is a nation in its own right. So Zimalia brings the resolution before us to test the waters as to the sovereignty of the Principality aware that our response will impact the potential future of how the Principality is viewed by this organisation."
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"Let the resolution say that, then," Appleby retorted, "If the intention is to decide whether 'Northern Borland' can be admitted to the CTO, let that be what the resolution says, rather than attempting to infringe upon the sovereign rights of already established nations. We can have a resolution explicitly opening the door to 'Borlander' CTO membership, which, by the way, has the potential of actually passing, or we can go with what we have here, which does no such things and will likely be completely ignored by the majority of the international community."
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"Madam Secretary General." Cheryl said "If the Zimalian ambassador and their government are content that we do so, then I move that the resolution before the Assembly be so amended and that the process as outlined in Article 4(2) of the Commonwealth Treaty be initiated, since such a process will touch on the main issue that we have debated here so far."
Edited by Achkaerin, 1st December 2015 - 09:44 PM.
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Zuko Dyanawa had been listening, "A prospect of CTO membership for Northern Borland is acceptable. We happen to agree with Tytor and Lahkzovia, which their points have been justly taken into consideration as I'm sure more of the quiet delegations here feel the same." Zuko flipped through his notes and cleared his throat. "I'd like to further advocate for Borland membership in the CTO as this provision may be added to the resolution."

"Borland has shown to be bipolar in it's actions and attitude towards the world, but it does not exclude them from being a part of the CTO. Issues pertaining to Borland, as they so commonly do, could be treated with steadfast effeciency by sensible, collective and logical resolutions formed here on the World Stage in the CTO. Whether it be in the General Assembly or the Security Council. "

"While we do advocate for Borland membership, we recognize the issue of admitting their membership. Borland being accepted into the CTO could be recognized as forcing a recognition of their independence anyway. Being that, by the definition of many they're still viewed rather than a sovreignty and more like an organization. It still all comes back to the Tytorian and Lahkzovian point of view."
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Cheryl had been rapidly typing away on her tablet while Zuko had been speaking, this was not the best circumstance and she knew it. The thought of Borland being able to put five people into the General Assembly was almost intolerable but the key word there was almost there was no way Borland representation would go any further than that right? Well not with the present group of nations that made up the CTO.

"IF we're going to do this then as has been said the first thing we need is an updated resolution" Cheryl said "Perhaps something along the lines of this"

Quote:
 

Commonwealth Treaty Organisation
General Assembly Resolution


Resolution [XXXX]
Adopted by the General Assembly on [Date]


The General Assembly

Recognizing that a sovereign nation may legally sell its own land to other nations

Aware that said land becomes the territory of the buying nation should an agreement exist between the two

Confirming that such an agreement exists between Zimalia and the Principality of Northern Borland

Informing The Commonwealth Treaty Organisation that the nation of Zimalia has granted the Principality of Northern Borland the rights of a sovereign nation

Understanding That such criteria qualifies the Principality of Northern Borland for membership of the Commonwealth Treaty Organisation

Upholding the Obligations of Article 4 of the Commonwealth Treaty in respect of this hereby:

1. Request the Security Council to consider the issue of the Principality of Northern Borland's membership and make a recommendation to the General Assembly[1]

2. Reserves the final decision on the matter for itself to be determined by majority vote.

3. Authorizes Nation to speak on behalf of the Principality of Northern Borland[2]

4. Authorizes the Secretary-General to nominate a delegate to articulate the argument against the Principality of Northern Borland's admission if they so wish.

5. Declares that a majority vote will admit The Principality of Northern Borland to the Commonwealth Treaty Organisation.

[1] OOC- Under Article 4 they're supposed to though I doubt an SC discussion thread will actually be necessary. Since me, Gad and Sekk can probably establish this over IRC or by PM
[2] OOC- On the basis that Rokkenjima's never going to let anyone from Borland in and I don't think we want to get into spy games.
Edited by Achkaerin, 5th December 2015 - 06:45 PM.
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"While the First Empire has no intentions of voting in favour of this Resolution, it would approve of the nomination of the UNP to speak on behalf of the Borland Separatists. The UNP has proven, time and again, their steadfast commitment to neutrality in all affairs, thus we could be certain there is no bias or ulterior motivations should such an arrangement be put into place."

"Furthermore, the First Empire takes issue with phrases which refer to the Borland Separatists and the territory which they hold as a nation. A nation did not buy that territory, a terrorist organisation did. An organisation responsible for countless deaths, injuries and acts of terrorism across Mundus. If the General Assembly is to entertain this motion a process should be in place before granting full membership. For example, the Separatists could be 'recognized' first as a 'non-member observer' before conferring upon the Separatists the full rights of a CTO member state. While Rokkenjima opposes any recognition of the Separatists as anything but the murderous terrorists that they are, this would allow at least some time for the international community to fully consider the precedent this Resolution is establishing."
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"Hate to break it to you." Cheryl said "But as has been clearly established they meet all legal criteria for full membership and to deny them what they are legally entitled to is a much more dangerous precedent and would run counter to the ethos of this organisation. It does matter that they were an organisation when they bought the land from Zimalia, what matters is how that land is operated now- we see them making their own laws, setting up their own education program, even disarming themselves. The point is that ever since they got that land they have behaved as a nation.

Now if you wish to argue on morality then that is a different matter, but that must not change the requirement that the resolution be legally correct as it presently is."
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"So you are advocating that all a terrorist organisation would have to do is acquire some territory, establish their own laws, domestic and foreign programs and they should be entitled to membership in the CTO? You wish to see criminals and murderers shielded by the laws and institutions of this Organisation protect them? I'm sorry, but there are countless families across Mundus who have lost loved ones due to the actions of the Separatists, communitites which bear the scars of Borland attacks to this day, and I can't help but wonder what they think of the CTO extending membership to one of Mundus' prime terrorist organisations."

"As for positions of a legal and moral nature I have already stated Rokkenjima's position on both. Another factor absent from this discussion is your Crown Princess' time with the Borlanders and the impact it has had upon her judgement towards Borland, a factor which has raised questions in prior international situations involving Achkaerin and the Separatists. We all know that Mr. Barren seeks greater legitimacy, both for himself and his 'nation', two motives which would certainly be that much closer to being accomplished through CTO membership. Hopefully that doesn't prove to be the case, however, these are factors which need to be considered given Achkaerin's keen interests in securing membership in the CTO for the Borland Separatists."
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Moments ago, as Charles and Yuriko walked into the Palace of Nations

"The Empress has every intention of formally appointing you to replace Mrs. Sanders, however, salvaging the debate from this point forward will be your first test," Charles said. "I understand, it's quite hard to believe Stacey would think such an argument would be a wise idea, however, following her performance with the CTOMM debate I wasn't surprised. I won't disappoint the Empress Charles, after all, she's the only one who's believed in me following the Succession controversy." Charles smiled, "With that said I won't keep you from your task any longer."


Moments after Stacey had surrendered the floor a familiar face emerged at the door. "I apologize for this disruption to the affairs of the General Assembly, however, I have a matter of business to discuss with Mrs. Sanders," Charles said, finding it somewhat awkward to be back at the Palace of Nations so shortly after the end of his tenure as Secretary General. Stacey soon joined the Lord High Steward just outside of the General Assembly's chambers, handing her a piece of paper which outlined her dismissal. "You have got to be kidding me," Stacey said, "I'm being dismissed?!"

"Your services are no longer required by the Empress, Stacey," Charles said calmly, "thus you are to follow the instructions of this Letter with haste. You've been given until the end of the day to clear your office out and hand in your passes and keys." Stacey was becoming visibly angry, "I have always served the best interests of Rokkenjima and the Empress and this is how I am repaid? How dare you..." "No," Charles interrupted, "how dare you? You did this, not the Empress, the moment you spoke those words against the Crown Princess of Achkaerin. You should be counting your blessings that the worst the Empress is doing is barring you from further service in the Imperial Government."

Stacey stood there for a moment, "If that is Her Majesty's wishes, I will be forced to comply." With a simple nod Charles acknowledged this, as Stacey departed to gather her belongings. Joined by Yuriko Faust Charles returned to the General Assembly, "If it would please the Secretary-General and this Assembly the First Empire wishes for Ms. Yuriko Faust to be recognized as Imperial Liaison to the Commonwealth Treaty Organisation. She shall serve on an interim basis until a permanent replacement for Mrs. Sanders is announced."
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The UNP's representative stood, "Should it make the process easier then yes I will speak on behalf of the Borland cause, however I will be asking Nya Åland's Minister of Defence Marita Kjeldsen to aid me, she has visited their territory and is one of the few people to have toured the Principality and spoken to its residents, I believe her insight would be valuable as we reach this decision." With that said they sat down

Birgit was next to speak, "With regards to the Rokkenjiman situation, I am happy to recognise whoever the Empress wishes to have their nations voice, Ms.Faust please feel free to make yourself comfortable." Strand gestured to one of the empty chairs.

"Now while I do not technically represent a nation I do wish to just voice a thought, if I may." she continued, "There have often been calls for Borland, and other terrorist organisations, to cease their activities, these groups have grievances, either real or perceived, that they feel strongly about and this leads them to their actions. There have always been legal means to voice these grievances, what we see currently with the Borlanders is a desire, at least for this moment, to try and follow one of these legal, peaceful means. Now I would like to ask a question, at what point do we sit here and permit groups to change their nature, is it 6 months, a year, ten years, twenty, my point being things change, every nation sat at this table knows that, be in Rokkenjima throwing off its former rulers in favour of the Anselmo family or even my own beloved Union being split with the exit of Åland. If nations are saying at the moment they will not support the Principality then the question should be asked when, if the reports I hear from Marita Kjeldsen are accurate then the Principality is making a go of it, when and on what conditions should we recognise them, that needs to be as much of the debate as a simple in or out. With that said I surrender the floor to you, the nominated delegates of the world."
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"Lakhzovia fundamentally disagrees with the basis of the resolution. As our Rokkenjiman counterpart has already stated the sale of the territory was to a terror group and not an already existing sovereign nation. That Zimalia has granted the Borlanders administrative autonomy at the very most would constitute only their own private recognition of a Borlander state.

The unilateral decision of Zimalia to recognise the Borlanders is no basis for the automatic right to recognition by the entire CTO, and thus we do not believe that the article of the Charter which is being invoked to try to push their recognition applies in this circumstance.

The most Lakhzovia is willing to extend in way of recognition to the Borlanders is the status of an autonomous zone. As we have stated before we believe that allowing them to sign treaties that obligate them to operate according to international norms is an acceptable move but we will not vote in favour of any motion which seeks to give them recognition as a sovereign national entity."
Edited by Astetoth, 4th December 2015 - 03:24 PM.

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The second Stacey had dared to insult Serenity the entire Achkaerinese delegation- all five General Assembly representatives had stood none of them looking happy, fortunately the swift removal and replacement in the form of Yuriko Faust was a welcome development.

"Before I say anything further, I will place on record my personal disgust at the remarks of the former Rokkenjiman delegate and also make known that I will be advising the Marble Palace to seek advice regarding possible action that may be taken in light of such comments. I further add that the former Rokkenjiman delegate should refer to one of her Empress's favorite quotes when she considers her words in hindsight- 'Na' ni sare vu nala-svitan vu ahkh'[1]" Cheryl said, speaking the quote in her native tongue.

"Now let's try and move forward- this is a resolution that will set the precedent for each and every future application to join this organisation, so the resolution as amended reflects a debate that we are not presently having- the time and provision to debate the matter of the so called Principality of Northern Borland's membership is laid out in the resolution, that is the purpose of the resolution. But it must be understood that if at such a vote this Assembly votes to admit Northern Borland then we admit them as a sovereign state with equal rights to our own. To attempt to change that would run counter to the Commonwealth's ethos and also compromise the organisation in the future by tagging it with the stigma of prejudice.

Now the basis of the resolution is sound, because the key point is when did the Borlanders legally go from land owners to nation? The answer is that they became a nation at least legally a nation when Zimalia granted them sovereignty over their land, therefore any resolution pertaining to their admittance must by definition alone go through the process stated in article four of our charter, if we attempt to change the process then we have to use the modified process for each and every future admission to this organisation otherwise we do nothing except openly admit to prejudice.

Legally they meet the criteria therefore they must go through the process so I propose that the Assembly passes this legally acceptable resolution, recesses and then sits to consider the matter of the suitability of Borland to be admitted, then we can have the debate as to morality but not before, not now. I further suggest that the Security Council representatives get together and form their recommendation to be presented at the start of the proposed subsequent session."
[1] For by ruses thou shalt make thy war
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Zuko then spoke, "With Borland's own efforts combined with bringing them within International governance brings change to their own idealogy and standing. It can also bring unruly activity in the eyes of a more effective international prosecution and control. Toshikawa vows that under this resolution as a Security Council member we will not faulted in assuring the safety of the international community in the face of this formerly violent state. If not this, then what? Many nation's have waged war against Borland countlessly, ineffectively to the point we're at today. If not this resolution then what resolution? More bombs? That resolution has been in action for years not stopping Borland from continuing it's terror."
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Yuriko smiled, taking her seat as she listened to the progression of discussions. "Recognizing the territory held by Borland as an autonomous zone is, perhaps, the least controversial way forward and should accomplish the aims set forth by the Resolution. As an autonomous region it would still have the ability to sign binding international treaties while removing language Rokkenjima and other states view as unacceptable. I think we can all agree that having a common policy towards Borland in place is preferable to a disjointed approach which would, ultimately, see no progress on an issue which continues to prove a challenge to the international community. We must move beyond our own divisions regarding Borland before addressing the issue at hand, something which the language proposed by our Lakhzovian colleague moves towards."
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"No." Cheryl said "This resolution is not about what we regard Borland as. This resolution may have originally have started as an attempt by Zimalia to have us recognize Borland's sovereignty but we are already beyond that- as Mr Appleby has stated what Borland is regarded as is a matter for individual national governments.

This resolution now concerns the potential admittance of Borland to this organisation and for that the criteria given in the resolution must be that of a sovereign state, because that is the terminology used and implied by the CTO Charter."
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"May I?" Zuko said as he once again spoke. "I suggest perhaps a probational period for Borland, a specified amount of time in which Borland will be looked at as a prospect for CTO membership. Once this time has passed and the right conditions are met on Borland's behalf for good behaviour then admission into the CTO can be granted. In addition, Borland suspect's of terror activity across Mundus be handed over to international court for prosecution for their crimes, which does include leading officials."
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"That ship Mr Zuko has already sailed." Cheryl said "The CTO Charter is clear admittance of members is a simple yes or no decision effected by a General Assembly vote following the recommendation of the Security Council. The complication is that this is the first such vote, whatever we decide here must then be used in all future admission debates because if we don't then we are as an organisation behaving in a very discriminatory way.

If we are to pursue any form of probationary membership as a condition of Borland membership then it should be within the CTO itself, admit them first allow them to sit in the General Assembly, allow them to present resolutions to the General Assembly, remember that this organisation's key positions are very well safeguarded. After a period of time we can then vote on whether to upgrade them to full membership. The conditions can form part of the Security Council recommendation but remember this is a nation we're talking about not individuals.

Let me make this clear the only way to give the Borlanders a fair crack of the whip which we are required to do by the standards we hold dear is to give them the opportunity to change our minds and the best way to do that is to have them here in this room participating in debates constructively."
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"Yes the criteria is that a nation must be sovereign, but so far the sovereignty of Borland is a construct of Zimalia recognised only by them. If the basis of membership to this organisation is on the basis of sovereignty then we require a standard by which to determine whether a state is truly a sovereign nation.

As the CTO appears not to have such a set criteria for this that leaves us with two options; first that we allow the General Assembly debate to determine the sovereignty status of Borland or to dismiss this resolution and revisit it at a later date once the organisation has drafted an amendment to the Charter to set out the process for recognition for cases of complex or questionable sovereignty.

I should hope that it need not require stating, however given the position of some here..." the Lakzhov representative glared at Cheryl "...perhaps it should be pointed out that when the CTO Charter was written it was never intended to deal with cases of admitting terrorist organisations or recognising their sovereignty by the back door. To admit the Borlanders in such a way, not only sets an extremely dangerous precedent, but undermines the CTO's underlying mission of promoting peace and cooperation; to admit a terrorist pseudo-state into the organisation is a farce, and one which cause Lakhzovia to seriously reconsider our continued engagement.

Lakhzovia along with other nations here have expressed our willingness to reach a compromise and have been fairly generous to this end. We find it perplexing that Achkaerin appears so committed to the admittance of a terror state, it had been our political assessment from our past dealings with them that their country was one of the more sensible when it comes to foreign affairs, we are therefore at a loss to understand their motive in pushing so hard for what is clearly a destabilising and ill-regarded resolution."

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"Forget that it is the Borlanders for a moment." Cheryl said "Treat this resolution as a resolution to admit any state, which lets be clear is the reality here because the rules of precedent will apply to it and whatever wording we choose to use in the resolution will have to be used in all subsequent membership resolutions therefore this body has little choice other than to draft a resolution using the terminology of sovereign state because that is the criteria for admission.

Now compromise is something I support on this but if there is to be compromise it must come from the subjective element of the process which is the recommendation of the Security Council, that is where the opportunity to caveat Borland's admission not in the wording of the resolution because if we start saying 'autonomous zone' in membership admission resolutions then we lock ourselves into that. To use the term 'autonomous zone' in the resolution with the treaty that this resolution is accountable to would render the resolution legally void because only sovereign nations may sit and the resolution must therefore acknowledge that by using the appropriate terminology.

Let's be clear Kyle Barren has a history of making political capital and successful propaganda out of a lot of actions of the international community, it is therefore of critical importance that we do not give him the oxygen to rail against this organisation regardless of the outcome of the vote to admit which is why I push to ensure that the resolution is legally correct within the terms of the Commonwealth Treaty, if you wish to amend the treaty then you have to understand two things a) you will give Barren the oxygen that we seek to deny him and b) however you amend the treaty will result in a process that must be followed by all, you cannot create an exception procedure for a 'state' like Borland because to do so is to run counter to the ethos of this organisation and will lead to loud voices and concerns in nations that are not currently members of this organisation.

So let us ensure that the resolution is correct within the letter of the Commonwealth Treaty, that is our responsibility then let the Security Council present their recommendation and then and only then let us debate the admission of Borland. Don't confuse my desire to protect the integrity of this organisation with sympathy for the Borland cause."

OOC- I will add that having spoken to both Gad and Sekk via PM I am aware of the Security Council's opinion and what the recommendation and reasoning is.
Edited by Achkaerin, 5th December 2015 - 04:20 PM.
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"As a Security Council member, I still support the probationary period." Zuko said. "I suggest an amount of 4 years before they can join, in that time CTO representatives can be assigned to observe, investigate and report of Borland officials and ongoing policy, It doesn't recognize them as anything, as even recognizing them as some sort of autonomous zone is against Rokkenjima's and Lahkzovia's own arguements. This merely assigns Borland as a prospect, not a commitment and is well within the Commonwealth Treaty."
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OOC- in an attempt to move this forwards, in a more formal way

"Madam Secretary General I request that Achkaerin's Security Council Representative, Colonel Steven Ayanami be allowed to present the Security Council Recommendation at this time. Doing so will not only allow the debate to move to the critical matter but will ensure that the resolution is legally correct."
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"I believe that seems the logical approach, otherwise I fear we'll make no progress on this issue"
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It wasn't much of a walk from the Security Council Chamber to the General Assembly Chamber, just go down one floor in the lift and take a right and you went from the elected chamber to the law making chamber. Steven typically was walking with a military air about him, adjusting his tie as he went. He carried his electronic tablet in his other hand- this wasn't something he'd ever expected to be speaking about but here it was. He entered the General Assembly Chamber and walked down the steps to the front to where Birgit was stood with a nod to the Secretary General he took position at the frontal podium.

"General Assembly members" Steven began "I am electronically circulating to you now the full version of the Security Council's recommendation on this matter. I will ask delegates to refrain from using some of what is contained in this recommendation in the debate that will shortly be had since some of the reasoning of the Security Council should in this case remain privileged information. I will simply proceed to give the headlines with as much explanation as I can." he checked where he was on the screen of his tablet before continuing

"The Security Council by a two to one majority recommends the admission of the Principality of Northern Borland." Steven held up his hand as the murmurs started, an expected reaction to the statement "If you want to make peace you don't talk to your friends, you talk to your enemies. We do not however recommend the immediate bestowing of all the benefits of CTO membership being given to the Principality. We do not take the train of thought proposed by the idea of an 'autonomous zone' Ms Holmes has made the case there very strongly, however equally as strong have been the arguments calling for probationary membership and that is an argument we accept, the Security Council therefore proposes the following conditions concerning the probationary period:

1) The Probationary period shall last through one election cycle. In short if admitted the matter of the Principality's upgrading to full membership will not be debated until after the next Security Council elections. That debate will however be a matter solely for the General Assembly.

2) The Principality of Northern Borland shall be entitled to appoint the five General Assembly representatives that other member states are and shall be permitted to nominate a Judge to the International Court of Justice with full participation on both counts- these are the most basic of rights within this organisation, if they are to prove themselves to us then it is incumbent on us to bring them into the fold at least as far as this chamber is concerned.

3) During the probationary period the Principality of Northern Borland shall not be entitled to nominate for the Security Council or nominate a Borland citizen for the position of Secretary General- this is common sense if they're on probation it's relatively speaking a bad idea to hand over the keys to the castle.

4) The Principality of Northern Borland will understand that any action in contravention of international law that it makes during the period may invalidate its probationary period at which point the General Assembly may vote to end the probation early thus dismissing the membership admission in full- let's be clear if they are to be admitted then the best way to do it is to say 'yeah we're giving you a chance but if you squander it we'll cut you off.'

This is the Security Council's recommendation.

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Poll: 2-1 in favor (Achkaerin and Toshikawa - Odmony)

Proposal: Probationary Membership for the Principality of Northern Borland through one election cycle followed by mandatory review.

Conditions:

  • The Principality of Northern Borland shall be entitled to appoint the five General Assembly representatives that other member states are and shall be permitted to nominate a Judge to the International Court of Justice with full participation on both counts- they may submit resolutions, participate in debates and vote.

  • During the probationary period the Principality of Northern Borland shall not be entitled to nominate for the Security Council or nominate a Borland citizen for the position of Secretary General. The only exception shall be if they are an affected party by a Security Council resolution.

  • Any action in contravention of international law that Borland makes during the period may invalidate its probationary period at which point the General Assembly may vote to end the probation early thus dismissing the membership admission in full since Article 4(1) of the Commonwealth Treaty may have been breached.



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The Security Council recognizes that military campaigns against the Borlanders in recent times have proven to be mostly ineffective, that they have risen to the level of legally being a sovereign nation is an embarrassment. Therefore due to the difficulties faced when combating an insurgent terrorist organisation we suggest that this is a suitable change of approach and may lead to further success further down the line- if you can show an enemy that you are not what they perceive you to be then you may gain a friend.

The Security Council also notes that from a legal point of view it is far better for recent actions of East Moreland's military to be considered as having been against a sovereign Borland state rather than against Zimalia- thus diminishing the charges against East Moreland somewhat at present.
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"Should the Separatists be represented before the General Assembly the First Empire would request certain provisions to be in place to ensure the security of the Palace of Nations, as well as that of Rokkenjima itself. Representatives from the Separatists, at least during the probationary period, should be represented in this chamber via real-time video links. Given Borland's history of attacks which have claimed Rokkenjiman lives, as well as their outspoken support for the man responsible for the Dollhouse Attempt against Crown Princess Adriana, who was barely a year old at the time, the security implications cannot be ignored. If they wish to earn trust then these provisions should not be controversial as, after all, Mr. Barren is certainly capable of understanding the reasons behind these measures."

Yuriko paused before continuing, "After this probationary period the Imperial Government would then be willing to review the situation and issue visas for Borland representatives, not before. Until then, however, a measure of trust and faith has to be earned by the Separatists before we put the safety and security of the Palace of Nations, and Rokkenjima itself, at risk."
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"With all due respect Ms Faust." Steven said "Rokkenjima does not sit on the Security Council, the Security Council has made it's recommendation and has no intention of changing it at this time. The Council believes that Borland has the same right as every other represented state here to be represented in person to deny that right is to give Kyle Barren something to complain about and that is something to be avoided. Remember video links can be manipulated, in person cannot be thanks to the subtleties of body language, facial expression and other things like tells. Now I'm not a General Assembly Delegate but surely Rokkenjima could be shall we say less obstructive? A more proportionate step than simply refusing them entry visas and thus give Kyle Barren another stick to rage against the world with would be for Rokkenjima's security officials in this building to act as a sort of probation officer group around the Borlanders. It's a reasonable method that could be employed and surely something that the Borlanders would expect therefore making it less controversial.

I will also say this the Security Council's recommendation is designed to do two things- firstly it presents the opportunity to the Borlanders to earn the trust of this organisation and the nations that comprise it by constructive contribution to proceedings in this chamber. But it also sends a clear message, that this is their final chance. We know from recent times that Kyle Barren likes to play to the gallery so this time we beat him to it, if he wants to rage about an 'oppressive international community' then he's welcome to but can he rage like that in the event of his nation breaching the conditions that the Security Council has recommended? I think not. I will with the Secretary General's leave remain for the duration of the debate you are about to have to answer questions as to the recommendation and anything that the Security Council may have considered when composing it."

As Steven stood back slightly from the podium Cheryl stood up

"I believe we've reached the point where the debate as to the membership of the Principality can be had, I would remind everyone that this is now not about the resolution, it is what it needs to be which is legally correct. So the discussion should now be a simple one. Does the UNP wish to retain it's nomination to speak for the Borlanders?"
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OOC: In case I miss it consider this preemptive approval for the measures Ach and I discussed regarding security measures for Borland reps. Thus, visas will in fact be issued. An IC post will reflect this when I get home.
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"The Security Council's recommendation is only that, a recommendation, the General Assembly has complete freedom to reject their recommendation. If it were not so then why does the power lie with the General Assembly to make the decision to accept it? Unless the General Assembly is simply here to rubber stamp the decisions of the Security Council?

We disagree fundamentally with the reasoning presented that the CTO members must pander to a terrorist in order to 'not give him something to complain about' such a validation of terrorist tactics will signal to every disaffected grouping in the world that terrorism gets results, it will open the floodgates for an increase in terrorist atrocity at a time the stability of much of the world is threatened by extremist groups.

Lakhzovia will never vote in favour of this resolution, should it pass regardless we will refuse to recognise the validity of the resolution and we call upon all nations with sufficient principle and honour to refuse to bow down before terrorists and their sympathisers to join us."
Edited by Astetoth, 7th December 2015 - 07:05 PM.

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Yuriko smiled, "Likewise, I believe you should heed the words of my colleague from Lakhzovia; the Security Council has made a recommendation, not a dictation which the General Assembly is forced to accept without question. Rokkenjima does not need to sit upon the Security Council to take a proactive approach to maintaining international peace and stability, nor does it need to sit upon the Security Council to know that trusting Borland is a foolish endeavour. To question these recommendations is not obstruction, nor is stating very real concerns about the prospects of handing Borlanders access to this building and Rokkenjima. In the future I would suggest that, when a representative of the Security Council joins us in this Chamber, that they not adopt such a condescending tone, for it is not conductive to cooperation or progress."

"Moving on," Yuriko continued, "if the measure passes and Borlanders are to be represented in this chamber they will be under guard and escort, their living quarters will be confined to the grounds of the Palace of Nations and they shall not be permitted to leave these grounds to travel freely in Rokkenjima. They shall be here strictly for the business of the Commonwealth, which does not require Rokkenjima to permit them the permission to leave these grounds. While Rokkenjima continues to note its opposition to this endeavour, to ensure we aren't too obstructionist, I'll pass along my recommendation that Rokkenjima abstains from this vote, however the Empress can always elect to vote 'no'."


Yuriko took a moment to pass a message along to the Lakhzovian representative:

"'It would seem our positions aren't so different. Perhaps by the end of this we can show leaders in both our countries that we could move beyond our differences?'
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"And I would suggest that the General Assembly remembers that it has the right to either take on board the recommendation or not. It does not have the right to change the recommendation which is what your previous remarks sought to do Ms Faust. The content of the recommendation is the Security Council's remit and you need to sit on that council to contribute to the recommendation." Steven said

Cheryl stood up

"Let's bear in mind the important thing here, we do not risk a flood gates scenario here, the Enlightenment does not own land, the Sorority of Marseilles whatever's left of it does not own land. The Borlanders do and that is the important point. I don't want to vote in favor of this but I can see a far less confrontational future in terms of international relations if they are admitted to the organisation, the reason should be fundamentally obvious because remember if we don't pass this resolution then we effectively say that we don't consider the Principality of Northern Borland to be a sovereign nation- which is fine but remember what that means in terms of certain actions on the international stage taken by a member of this organisation."
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Zuko respected the Rokkenjiman and Lahkzovian opinions. "It is just a recommendation but perhaps is the only progress or attempt towards statbility and cooperation. I would like to ask Rokkenjima and Lahkzovia, that in their rhetoric, where is their a solution to the Borland problem as a whole? What I have heard is just argument's against Borland but they are blinded by fundamental morality that doesn't see to pursue a solution to stop or eliminate such a terror organization. So, either we exile Borland, attacks proceed around the world their King's name, this time on new targets like Toshikawa. Everyone condemns them and so on. Then what? Opposition nations have done poorly in providing any viable solution, because this is what this resolution is falling back on, taming Borland."

"Or, we can be logical and consider the probationary period as a step forward instead of just escalating things further. Some things are bigger than mere grievances, we need to think long term. If not any of this. Then I challenge the Rokkenjima and Lahkzovia to form another resolution, one which they believe suits Borland, one which can tame or stop them or end them. If then, I will applaud them and join them. I do respect the honorable delegations, we just have a disagreement on this subject."
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"It should be added that such a resolution would be a matter for a separate debate." Cheryl said with a sideways smile in Zuko's direction.

OOC- In other words not in this thread, though I would guess since the only other option is a military one it would be an SC debate anyway.
Edited by Achkaerin, 7th December 2015 - 09:40 PM.
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"I can't believe we're even debating this" Sir Jacob Longe said standing up. "I've sat here biting my tongue hoping that this organisation would see sense, here we have a group that have time and time again vowed to take control of Northfort, my nations capital city. To achieve that aim they've killed our former Queen and the King's mother Lady Helene, they've several occasions attempted to murder my King, and now we will probably see some of those very people involved in those attacks around this table. I can no longer sit and listen to this insanity. If you'll forgive me I mist go and seek advice of the government." with that he gathered his papers and walked out.
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"We have already provided another solution. Allow them to sign the treaties obligating them to abide by international norms but without membership. Allow them then to prove themselves with a view to future admission. But perhaps my honourable friend does not understand solutions that are not black and white?"

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Yuriko smiled, "Very well then. I ask that I be granted the time to work with those interested in an alternative solution to draft a Resolution to be put to debate. Allow democracy to determine the response this Organisation takes in regards to Borland."
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"Oh we understand that. But we argue differently, Kyle Barren's signature is already on the MCUR, the FSC and the Uppsala Convention. These are the main international treaties." Cheryl said "Now let's remember the complication we have at the moment, normally we would dismiss this but these are not normal circumstances, everyone here needs to remember what dismissing this resolution would mean about actions East Moreland has taken and what it then becomes incumbent upon this organisation to do and if you understand that are you really content to do what we will be required to do?"
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"It is not black and white unless you make it so." Zuko responded. "Considering what you proposed has already been done by Borland for a long time, I don't see your point. We will wait until Rokkenjima presents an option, in which if it militaristic I will hand it over to Tue Security Council to view."
Edited by Gadshack, 7th December 2015 - 10:54 PM.
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"I quite agree." Cheryl said "We have two options the peaceful diplomatic option is embodied in the resolution presently before the only other alternatives are more militaristic now if such options are presented the Security Council will consider them but if they are dismissed as options then we will end up back here discussing this."
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"Where some would see two options Rokkenjima sees a third," Yuriko replied. "Moments ago Rokkenjima submitted a draft resolution which would seek to implement measures which should have been already considered in regards to the Borland Question. It also establishes what I feel the Security Council should have considered while drafting its recommendations: the status of Mr. Barren and those Borlanders involved in the planning and execution of terrorist attacks which have claimed countless lives across Mundus. The Draft, while requiring the input of my General Assembly colleagues to ensure a Resolution is drafted which presents a truly representative view of the international community and some refinement, establishes a path for a recognized sovereign Borland, a Borland which would be in a position for CTO admittance, while addressing the very real concerns which exist due to the present Draft Resolution."

Yuriko paused, "The facts remain clear that Kyle Barren is a terrorist, those who followed his orders share equally in this guilt, and the acquisition of land nor the destruction of choice weapons can wash the blood from Mr. Barren's hands of the lives he willingly ended, nor repair the countless more that were destroyed. Instead of appeasing his wishes in an attempt to remove the wind from his sails, so to say, the same can be accomplished through recognizing that if the interests really are a sovereign Borland then that is where the focus must be while moving forward the causes of justice against Mr. Barren and his subordinates who can have no place in a sovereign Borland. Pandering to Mr. Barren or Zimalia, which has willingly granted safe haven to terrorists, does not resolve the many concerns which continue to surround Borland and could very well move to undermine the safety, stability and legitimacy of the Commonwealth itself."

"Revisiting Mr. Barren's signatures upon those documents, if they are sincere he shall understand that he must face justice for his crimes, otherwise those signatures will prove most worthless. A peaceful alternative has been provided which acts to address the concerns members of this Assembly have stated with the Resolution presently under debate. I hope that those colleagues who have expressed their disdain for this Draft Resolution, including those who have supported this one due to the fact that an alternative was not in place, will work with us to bring this matter to a resolution which serves the interests of international stability and security, and allows for a Borland resolution which does not reward a career of murder and terrorism, setting a precedent which none of us can afford."
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"If I may interject" Birgit stood from her seat, "We now have two paths open to us and nations must determine which path the whole of this organisation is to take, its a difficult decision and its impacts will be far reaching. The delegation from Achkaerin is correct that this application may very likely determine much on future applications. However we must be seen to take action, so I purpose to place a time limit on debate and then allow nations to vote on which of the two resolutions we wish to follow." Birgit took out a pocket watch and wound it placing it down on the table. "When the watch alarm rings I will open a vote"




OOC - Purposely didn't put a time on the watch idea, but in terms of real life I'll look to move this on for a vote around 10pm Thursday UK time, however if the debate is still raging then I'll just wait for it to run out of steam. I just figure we need a way of making something happen rather than endless debate.
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Zuko spoke, "I would like to point out that while it is a sound peaceful alternative Borland is far from likely to openly accept this resolution and comply with it. As it is suppose to be a 'peaceful' alternative I don't see what it does other than proposing the impossible, which is a one-sided resolution in the eyes of Borland which only serve to escalate tensions. There has to be an amount of compromise, without we only create another more miltarisfic scenario, this is not total war. In fact we proposed a similar resolution like this earlier but soon realized this fault."
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Cheryl stood up and sighed this was spiraling out of hand faster with every passing second, the CTO's capability to control the situation was now being put at risk by Rokkenjima of all nations.

"The fact is that Borland is legally sovereign and they have a right to determine their own leadership. Now frankly there is no way this will be acceptable to Borland and all you do in proposing it is continue to pour fuel on the fire, for once can we not look at the bigger picture and respond in the way that is most viable not only to the 'state' in question but also this organisation? Rokkenjima clearly seems to feel the answer to that is no.

I would have thought Rokkenjima more anyone else here would recognize the complications to the situation and understand what admitting Borland in that context would mean.

Now if we are to debate which resolution we are to follow I suggest we hold this session in camera.[1]" Cheryl said
[1] OOC- Legal term for private which is to say that what's said would not be public record.
Edited by Achkaerin, 8th December 2015 - 05:39 PM.
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"The Resolution before us at present is rather one-sided, wouldn't you agree?" Yuriko replied. "Quite simply, as others have made clear, this situation is quite extraordinary, however, we must recognize as responsible members of the international community that we are dealing with a terrorist organisation which has acquired land. A terrorist organisation which has has committed acts of violence and terrorism against several nations represented in this very Assembly and has yet to offer even a shred of remorse, repudiation, or the means or interest to remediation for those attacks. It is as if Borland expects that their past actions should be cast off and forgotten about, that they should face no consequences for their actions, and that is a precedent which cannot be established. These interests are not pursued to 'pour fuel on the fire' or obstruct progress, but to preserve principles and values held in common by the international community."

"With this in mind the international community must negotiate from the position of strength that it possesses, not as if Borland has the upper hand which has, unfortunately, been the path initially presented and supported. Terrorists do not deserve to be respected as diplomats, nor do they deserve the protections which diplomatic recognition is often accompanied by. Rokkenjima has a responsibility to the families of those lost in a Borland attack against the Olive Branch, just as the Royal Government of East Moreland has a responsibility to the countless families who have lost loved ones or otherwise been harmed in countless Borland attacks against East Moreland. One cannot simply wash away this blood with a CTO Resolution which opens the doors for a legitimate Borland under the leadership of a man who has shown absolutely no regard for the lives of innocent civilians."

"We have seen Mr. Barren's application of the Treaties he has signed already: calling upon them when they serve his interests while ignoring the letter and spirit of them in the process. For example, as Mr. Barren cried injustice and referenced the MCUR he held in his custody a six year old child as a retaliatory measure. Videos were shown in which Archie Green had a bomb collar around his neck, one which we have no reason to believe Mr. Barren wouldn't have detonated had he been allowed the chance. These are not the actions of a leader and point very strongly to the character of Mr. Barren, his respect for life, as well as that for international law. Are the terms which Mr. Barren and the leadership of Borland wish to impose upon the international community those which we should accept? Are we to throw up our hands and simply accept the efforts of Mr. Barren and those who grant him haven, or should we recognize that Mr. Barren can have no place in a sovereign Borland, that he is in fact a terrorist, murderer and abductor while at the same time allowing a path to legitimacy for a Borland not ruled by a cabal of murderers and terrorists?"

Yuriko sat down, not wishing to allow emotion to overtake her.
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OOC- I'm assuming we're now having this in camera otherwise the debate will be ICly skewed because certain delegations won't be able to argue the case effectively.

Cheryl stood up shaking her head.

"Firstly the Rokkenjiman resolution is invalid as it runs contrary to Article 4 of the Commonwealth Treaty, we have established in this debate that the final decision on whether to admit a nation or not is the General Assembly's decision by majority vote, we have established that a resolution to admit should be such that it can be applied to any nation, we have established that the Security Council makes a recommendation prior to the General Assembly debate and most crucially of all we have established that the imposing of conditions on the prospective member states membership is the remit of the Security Council to consider in their recommendation. Rokkenjima does not sit on the Security Council therefore what can only be described as a blatant to circumvent the treaty provisions cannot possibly be allowed to stand.

Secondly even if passed the Rokkenjiman resolution is likely to achieve nothing positive simply because the conditions are wholly unacceptable, you give Kyle Barren the chance to rage in fact by proposing such a ridiculous resolution you already have or does no one here actually bother to read the International Borland News? And let me tell you quite a lot of what's in that article is one way or another legally correct including his statements about Rokkenjima's Empress. Ms Faust...No Rokkenjima needs to learn a little humility they are not always right though as has been evident time and again they believe they are, we have seen what could be argued as 'Rokkenjiman double standards' in both military operations and diplomatic circles time and time again and I for one will not have that happen here not when the stakes are this high."

She took a deep breath before continuing she was about to hit hard in fact harder than she ever had previously.

"The Rokkenjiman resolution amounts to nothing more than Rokkenjima throwing its toys out of the pram because it's not getting it's own way, it amounts to nothing more than the arrogance Rokkenjima believing that it knows better than than a collectively well thought out and reasoned argument. It also amounts to nothing more than Rokkenjiman ignorance of recent Ardian history, history that they now with this resolution could repeat on Alba Karinya. Rokkenjima has already surrendered the moral high ground on Ardia to President Fetu and Zachachevania, if this Rokkenjiman proposal passes and Borland accepts the conditions then we will repeating the same mistake that Rokkenjima pushed the Ardian Entente into, you will turn Kyle Barren into a hero 'the King that sacrificed himself so his nation could live' and then no one can touch the Borlanders.

To pass the Rokkenjiman resolution would also confirm President Fetu's suspicions that the CTO is nothing more than Rokkenjima's attack dog and frankly the transcript of this debate up to the point where we moved to a closed session would reflect that. Well that I will not have either."

Stopping to take a sip of water she glanced down at where Steven was standing at the podium

"We have a Security Council of three nations- Achkaerin, Toshikawa and Odmony. Not one of those three has any love for Borland and yet two of them have taken the view that Borland in the CTO on probation is the way forward with the conditions they make in their recommendation. Considering that not one nation on that council has any reason to support the Borlanders I am frankly astounded that not Ms Faust nor the Lakhzovian delegate or anyone else in this chamber has had the common sense to ask Colonel Ayanami the obvious question 'why?' and speaking bluntly if Ms Faust persists in a course that will pit Rokkenjima against the Security Council then she owes it to the Security Council to muster the courage and ask that question."

Cheryl sat down, her point well and truly made.
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"You forget that Rokkenjima does not stand alone in their opinion. For all the historical bad feeling between the government of Rokkenjima and Lakhzovia we are prepared to offer our full support to them regarding this matter. This is not throwing toys out of a pram, it is legitimate concern at the attempt to force through membership in the CTO for a terrorist group. We have expressed our concerns and feel that they are being disregarded, we are entitled as members of a democratic organisation to have our concerns given the regard they demand, we have the right to debate and the right to negotiate.

We are not being obstructive, if it appears so then perhaps it is you that should consider why you feel entitled to force through a resolution that a number of members have shown real misgivings about. Instead of dismissing us out of hand it may serve you well to remember that you are a diplomat at an organisation founded on the ideas of negotiation and cooperation, we in the opposing camp have repeatedly been told that we offer no other proposal only to have our, frankly generous, compromise proposals ignored or obstructed.

If we seem tireless in our efforts that should be an indication of just how important a matter we are dealing with...

If you wish to reject all our overtures of compromise then you may as well take us to a vote now. As it stands Lakhzovia will vote against this resolution and will refuse to recognise its validity should it pass. Lakhzovia will never bow to the tactics of terrorists, and look forward to the day that Achkaerin comes to realise what most rational nations already have, that you can not achieve security by appeasing terror."
Edited by Astetoth, 9th December 2015 - 03:52 PM.

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"It's not a compromise that you offer it is an ultimatum, one that does nothing because is there anyone in this room who seriously believes Kyle Barren would accede to the suggestions that such a resolution makes. I remind you that you have not allowed the full explanation to come from the Security Council and maybe if you understood that you would understand the situation better." Cheryl said "Secondly you fail to address the fact that the resolution you support circumvents the treaty. Thirdly yes I'm a diplomat but so are you so maybe you should ask the military man in the room why the Security Council would want to recommend sovereignty for Borland in this instance, because I'll tell you now there's a very good reason. Or maybe you're forgetting the first rule of diplomacy 'all is not always what it seems to be.'"
Edited by Achkaerin, 9th December 2015 - 04:14 PM.
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OOC - Just to clarify, my understanding is that the vote Nord proposes is not about whether to accept or reject the resolution, but rather which resolution should be taken forward. I would then assume their would be a vote on that resolution for reject or accept
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OOC- That's my understanding as well though I will point out that before we get to that vote that I hope someone will actually ask for a fuller explanation from the SC or I'll have to engineer it myself.

And technically since the Rokkenjiman resolution still concerns Borland's membership the SC would have to make another recommendation since it would be a different resolution.
Edited by Achkaerin, 9th December 2015 - 04:23 PM.
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Yuriko's respect for the Lakhzovian delegate[1] seemed to increase the more they spoke, 'It's good to see some ration still exists in this room,' she thought to herself. What had come as a shock, however, was the increasingly patronizing and dismissive tone coming from Ms. Holmes. "With all due respect Ms. Holmes a Resolution to establish precedent for the admittance of future member states of the CTO should have nothing to do with the Borland Question. Not only is such a motion irresponsible, it is doomed to fail as Borland is, despite the position of certain parties, a terrorist organisation, led by a fugitive from justice. I would also note that your continued dodging of valid points brought up by others, such as Mr. Barren's history of non-compliance and manipulation of international treaties to serve his own agenda, while wholly ignoring the murders, abductions, and waton destruction which has been wrought by his hand as well as those of his subordinates is either irresponsibility or utter incompetence."

"That Achkaerin does not agree with the content of the Rokkenjiman Draft does not render it invalid, nor does evoking Article Four of the Commonwealth Treaty, as I would argue it does not apply in this case. Simply because Borland has acquired some land and Zimalia has proclaimed it a state, does not make it so. The path to legitimate statehood put forth in the Rokkenjiman Draft is sensible, recognizing that not all Borlanders are criminals while calling for those responsible for some of the most violent acts of terrorism in recent history to be brought to justice. The Security Council have presented their recommendations on the Zimalia Draft Resolution, that they have not been greeted with outright acceptance is not the fault of Rokkenjima or any other nation in this Assembly."

"That Achkaerin feels that the Resolution is unlikely to achieve anything is also irrelevant, and I think you would find that the conditions are wholly acceptable to those who approach this situation rationally; only those who would face to lose from them, namely Mr. Barren and those involved in the planning and execution of Borland attacks, view them as 'wholly unacceptable'. In regards to Mr. Barren's statements about Empress Beatrice they hold little to no weight in actuality, as those responsible for that oversight were disciplined and are no longer in the employ of the Imperial Government. Furthermore, as Achkaerin has established time and again, as the Uppsala Convention did not exist at the time of the conflict the Treaty cannot be retroactively applied; thus another invalid point."

"Ms. Holmes, this is neither the time nor the place to employ resentment for Rokkenjima's rejection of the Ardian Diplomatic Convention or Achkaerin's participation in that Conference. We were presented with a Resolution which does nothing to solve the Borland Question, proposed by the very state granting safe haven to some of the most wanted individuals in the world, only to have a common-sense alternative which actually does something slammed by Achkaerin, which has also seen fit to use this debate as an opportunity to hurl empty rhetoric at Rokkenjima which does nothing to resolve the situation before us! This Resolution is not about Rokkenjima, it is about ensuring the principles the CTO was founded upon are not trampled upon while also avoiding a scenario where the international community panders to a spineless terrorist with the hopes that it will resolve the Borland Question."

As Ms. Holmes continued Yuriko couldn't help but to let out a chuckle, "And what, praytell, is Achkaerin doing at this very moment? You say that Rokkenjima has 'thrown its toys out of the pram' yet it is clear that Rokkenjima, joined by others upon the General Assembly, do not believe in the Security Council-endorsed approach proposed by Zimalia which grants Mr. Barren several of his goals. We also object to the continued disdainful and patronizing attitude which Achkaerin continues to show to members of the General Assembly who disagree with its positions, an attitude which can only serve to undermine the spirit of cooperation which is supposed to exist within this Assembly. The rest of your statements are groundless, ignorant vitriol which deserve neither retort nor recognition."

"Furthermore I shall not stand by while you attempt to fear-monger the General Assembly in regards to the Rokkenjiman Draft Resolution. Is Rokkenjima, a member of the Commonwealth Treaty Organisation and of this Assembly, not entitled to submit drafts because President Fetu might pull some asinine assumption from his hat? Lakhzovia, a Zachachevanian ally and a state which certainly owes Rokkenjima no favours, shows that such concerns are ridiculous and do not bear any merit upon the Draft Resolution.

"This General Assembly, this Organisation, it is not about what you want or what you will or will not have; it is about fostering international cooperation, reacting to situations of a global scale with wise decisions which preserve both our values as a community of nations as well as the safety and security of that community. If you cannot deal with the fact that there are members of this Assembly who do not and will not support an approach they feel is not in the best interests of the international community perhaps you should explore an alternative career path. At this time, unfortunately, you're portraying that the official position of the Holy Empire is one of patronizing and dismissive obstruction of the alternative."

"In short, as the issue at hand is a process for the admittance of new member states it should be dealt with via a dedicated Resolution. The Draft Resolution submitted by Rokkenjima represents a common-sense compromise which does not play upon the field of a terrorist, murderer and abductor who has the blood of thousands upon his hands. All the patronizing and targeting of those who disagree with your positions, Ms. Holmes, accomplish nothing and detract from the real issues at hand." Pausing to sip her tea which had unfortunately grown cold, Yuriko shrugged. "Ms. Holmes, you are a General Assembly Delegate, certainly you are capable of asking for this explanation yourself?"
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"What this ultimately comes down to." Steven said "Is whether you want the CTO in control of the situation or not. If you do then you will vote for the resolution put forward by Ms. Holmes if you don't then you will vote for Ms Faust's resolution.

Now let's be clear the implications of the Rokkenjiman resolution, if passed and let's say there's no legal challenge to it the first question is 'will Kyle Barren accept and comply with it?' the answer is quite simply no and when that happens the Security Council will have to bring a motion to condemn East Moreland for their recent air strikes against Zimalia, because remember under the Rokkenjiman draft Borland does not acquire sovereignty therefore the areas that East Moreland have attacked are sovereign Zimalian territory, legally they have attacked in an unprovoked manner. If such a motion is brought then the General Assembly will have no alternative other than to pass it because to dismiss such a motion sets one heck of a very dangerous precedent make no mistake about it if you pursue the Rokkenjiman proposal and then subsequently fail to condemn East Moreland then you are leaving every nation on the planet wide open to attack from anyone else.

For example let's say there's an Enlightenment cell operating in Rokkenjima and Supreme Sovereignty takes it out with an air strike without informing the Rokkenjiman Government all Supreme Sovereignty would have to say is 'we were targeting terrorists' and it'd be fine that's the seriousness of the situation we as an organisation will find ourselves in if you do not subsequently condemn East Moreland should the Rokkenjiman option be pursued. I will also add two further points firstly the terrorists do not even need to exist I'm sure you all understand of that in this context 'counter terrorist operations' fast become prelude to all out war. The second point is deny the Borlanders sovereignty and you legally make them untouchable because Sovereignty is King, we already have a situation where we may have to condemn East Moreland and I will add that we would also have no choice but to bring subsequent resolutions against any nation that strikes the Borlanders in the present situation.

Also you would do well to remember that resolution or not the Principality of Northern Borland meets the legal requirement of being a sovereign state as such it has a right to decide its own leader, its own laws and its own constitution attempting to mess with this will prove counter productive and tarnish the names of the 'neutral' nations. In short you essentially don't end up granting them sovereignty because you have messed around with their most basic of rights as a country.

The Rokkenjiman proposal is like a hostage taker and Kyle Barren is the negotiator the thing is that he's going to say 'go ahead and kill the hostage' it relies too much on Kyle Barren's cooperation and given what the demands are and how it is worded which is clearly ultimatum not compromise there is no way that that cooperation will be forthcoming. Now by comparison the Achkaerin proposal backed by the Security Council is more like an experienced con artist.

The question as Ms Holmes has rightly said that you should have all asked before even suggesting an alternative resolution is 'why has the security council backed Borland Sovereignty?' Ms Holmes didn't need to ask the question because she a) knows the answer already and b) knows that it is the only viable option.

Well firstly the resolution that includes a probationary period is more likely to be accepted by the Borlanders meaning that the CTO retains control of the narrative, you retain control of that and you take away Kyle Barren's greatest weapon his 'hard luck story' this therefore means that the CTO and not Kyle Barren is in control of the situation.

Secondly in granting Borland Sovereignty though it be unpalatable to do so we avoid a situation where a condemnation of East Moreland is required.

And third though it may appear for all the world that we give a terrorist what he wants we actually aren't. Remember Sovereignty is King and a missile launched from outside Zimalian airspace that strikes a target in the Principality under the resolution proposed by Achkaerin does legally equate to an attack on the Principality and is far easier to explain and justify than the alternative. Remember Zimalia is guilty of no crime under international law, the Principality of Northern Borland is guilty of no crime under international law, the Borland Separatists are so is East Moreland or have we all forgotten the very poor cover up in Safraen?

The Security Council's recommendation is not based around pandering to a terrorist it is a sound strategy, we control the narrative and we open up the possibilities. We give them sovereignty but rather than playing into the Borlanders hands that granting of sovereignty actually works to our advantage because it sets the stage for us to deal with them once and for all at a time of our choosing. Remember you cannot presently attack the Borlanders without attacking Zimalia something which is unacceptable you give Borland sovereignty and you change that. So let Kyle Barren dig his own grave, let's do this the smart way not the reckless way."
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Having been quiet for a while, the Odmonian delegate spoke up. "Ms. Yuki Faust, understand Rokkenjima is not alone in their objections to the manner in which these current proceedings have been going. Granting recognition to a terrorist organization led by an international criminal like Kyle Barren is a mistake."

"This is not the first time the Borlanders have adopted a false facade of legitimacy in pursuit of their political goals. In the past, the international community wisely refused to play their games. When they signed documents such as the MCUR, they were ignored because of their terrorist status, a move later validated when the Borlanders violated that document. As a global community of actually legitimate nations, we need to hold the course and not grant them the immediate recognition they seek."

"Now, on the unlikely chance they have turned a new leaf, Rokkenjima's proposal gives them a path to gain recognition by actually acting as the peaceful, law-abiding state they are claiming to be."

"For these reasons, Odmony voices their support for the Rokkenjiman proposal."
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The Lakhzovian delegate had read and re-read the message that had been passed to him from Yuriko Faust. He had never imagined that such an opportunity would come. He sat engaged with the debate but giving the odd thought to a reply. Finally he scribbled down a note and had it conveyed to the Rokkenjiman

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It is an unexpected pleasure to find ourselves in the same camp. I will convey to the government upon the conclusion of this debate the favourable opinion I have developed of Rokkenjima's stance, perhaps misunderstandings of the past have a chance to be righted.

With High Regards

Berael Hokh


Berael waited for his next opportunity to speak.

"And so we seem to come to the core of the matter. The reason, it seems, that some feel such a desperation to pass an unacceptable resolution is in order to save East Moreland. This is truly an appalling admission, to be attempting to foist a resolution that grants CTO recognition and membership to a terrorist group so that the Morelanders avoid answering for their own actions is a hijacking of the CTO charter to serve the narrowest of interests and in bad faith.

The status of East Moreland's actions regarding the attack on the Borlanders is a separate issue entirely from whether or not the Borland terrorists deserve membership of this organisation and is worthy of its own debate. Let me state now it is Lakhzovia's feeling that if a state is incapable or unwilling to deal with terrorist organisations using their territory as a base of operations then there is a perfectly legitimate case for nations that are the target of that terror to launch strikes to neutralise the threat. This is common sense, and we believe that a strong case can be made for it under international law. In fact it could be argued that Zimalia in not only failing to deal with terrorists in their lands, but actually giving them territory and recognition have made themselves a state sponsor of terror and a legitimate military target.

Let's face facts, the resolution proposed by Ms. Holmes and this debate so far have been on the basis of the Borlanders narrative; since when did the CTO accept the narrative of terrorists as a basis for decision making? The debate has been cast by those with an interest in pushing it through, entirely in terms that accept as axiomatic that the purchase of land by terrorists and their recognition by a state is a legitimate basis to be considered sovereign. We do not and will not concede that this is so. Selling land to terrorists and giving them power of sovereignty in that land does not make them a nation or state, it make the seller a sponsor of terror.

Yet in the face of all of this we the opposing camp have attempted nothing but compromise, we are pleased to see that others here are moving towards voting to adopt the Rokkenjiman resolution, as we ourselves are planning to."
Edited by Astetoth, 10th December 2015 - 08:15 AM.

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"I do not believe I am hearing this." Cheryl said "A compromise? If you truly believe that's a compromise then you are not a diplomat. Let's consider the differences shall we?

The resolution that Achkaerin supports effectively says: We'll admit Borland but we're going to monitor their membership initially.' now that's a compromise we give ground by admitting Borland, something we clearly don't want to do, and Borland gives ground by allowing themselves to be monitored during the probation period, something they initially wouldn't have wanted.

The Rokkenjiman resolution says the following to Borland: 'You can be admitted if you do XYZ' now that sounds like a compromise but when you actually look at what the 'XYZ' conditions are, it's quite obviously not a compromise but an ultimatum do you honestly believe Kyle Barren is going to turn himself in? Do you seriously believe the Borlanders are going accept the international community stepping in and writing effectively a constitution? Do you not realize the problems that this resolution creates- you effectively forget when you impose these conditions that the man you are making these demands of is the very man who is the leader of the Principality. This is why you are proposing an ultimatum because the terms you put forward are unacceptable to Kyle Barren and if there's anyone in this room who seriously believes that Kyle Barren will not just give a two fingered salute to this Rokkenjiman resolution then they seriously need to take off their rose tinted glasses.

Ms Faust's resolution is directed at the people of the Principality, noble gesture, but it is flawed because it will never get to the people without going through the leadership first and the leadership which is subject to quite a lot of that resolution will simply dismiss it. And furthermore she forgets that the people have absolute trust in the said leadership.

If we could recognize the Principality as sovereign without admitting them we would but as Mr Appleby previously demonstrated that is a matter for national governments to work out independently- the flaw with that is a lack of consistency when attacks are carried out. Now East Moreland will have to answer for the attacks they have so far carried out but supporting the resolution that we propose simply means that they do not have to worry about future events.

Let's make this clear- have the Borland Separatists committed any terrorist related crimes since the Principality of Northern Borland came into existence? The answer is no they have not therefore the Principality of North Borland has not. The next question is then has Zimalia been complicit in terrorist activity? Answer no since no terrorist crimes have been committed. This indisputable fact means that military action is presently off the table and the only way you get it back on the table is to recognize the Principality as a sovereign state remember if the CTO does it then the ICJ has a solid foundation for inevitable legal matters coming out of Barren's mouth.

Supporting the Achkaerin resolution is supporting a viable and well thought through approach to dealing with the Borland threat once and for all, we control the narrative and we deal with Barren on our timetable and we do it in the appropriate way.

Supporting the Rokkenjiman resolution may seem like a good idea but it surrenders control of the narrative to Barren, it is nothing more than a PR statement that will go nowhere. The interesting thing is that Ms Faust has not addressed what the next step is in dealing with the Borland problem because let's be honest we all know that if the Rokkenjiman resolution is passed that Barren will not have it and we are then back at square one with no legal means to deal with them."



OOC- And I will point out that since this is presumed to be a closed session so this is kind of a no-no at this point.
Edited by Achkaerin, 10th December 2015 - 11:55 AM.
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Ooc...I'm working on the premise the Sec-gen hasn't said it's closed session, also the UN only does that when hearing information sensitive to national security, none of this is. the Security Council of the UN can meet under these conditions and only a resolution released, like what you did via PM otherwise all Un minutes are available online.
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OOC- Well given what's been said I think we have to operate on the assumption it is a closed session because otherwise we're looking at retconning a lot of what's been said here, because if it's public record and Kyle can get hold of it then there's no way the SC's going to explain to the GA that the Achkaerin resolution is a means of creating the premise to strike.
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Ooc...well seeing as the bit macgregor is on about is about the existence of two views that would be common knowledge and the EM team would be able to.pass on the Safraen comment without security risks.
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I am glad that we are in agreement then, Mr. Hokh. During my term as Premier the Empress highly valued my opinion on foreign affairs, and continues to value them as a friend. To quote an old Rokkenjiman saying (or a loose translation to English at least), may we one day break bread and share mead at the same table.

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Yuriko stood and bowed towards the Odmonian delegate, before addressing Ms. Holmes. "Ms. Holmes, is there a statute of limitation upon acts of murder, abduction and terrorism? Is there a legal precedent which invalidates the prosecution of such crimes after the metamorphosis of a terrorist organisation, for lack of a better term? Two facts remain clear in regards to the Borland Separatists: a history of terrorism and its associated crimes, and that Zimalia was aware of these facts when they allowed them within their borders. The points which Mr. Hokh has presented are sound, and are a legitimate manner in which one would expect terrorists and those who support them to be dealt with."

"Mr. Barren's approval of the Resolution is also inconsequential, as Rokkenjima and its allies have operated information campaigns utilizing a wide variety of communication medium to reach those behind iron curtains before. These operations saw success in the past when directed at former Warsaw states, and was recently employed to bring unfiltered content to the citizens of Zachachevania. Considering the wide proliferation of radio, which I'm sure is present even under Mr. Barren's rule, such methods could be employed again to bypass Mr. Barren and the Borland leadership. Even an absolute trust can be shattered when the veil is lifted just enough for the People to get a wider view of the world around them."

"The Draft Resolution submitted by Rokkenjima would do little to hamper East Moreland's options for self-defense as it recognizes that a Borland under Kyle Barren is a terrorist organisation. This is important, as the situation can thus be rightly viewed as a Zimalian offer of safe haven to a terrorist organisation which, as Mr. Barren has made painfully clear, is a direct threat to the safety of East Moreland. Regardless of whether Borland has not attacked East Moreland since proclaiming their 'state' the fact remains that Kyle Barren has called for the reclamation of Northfort while consistently calling East Moreland an illegitimate nation. That he has launched attacks against East Moreland to further his aims, which certainly Zimalia was aware of, adds great weight to this argument, thus invalidating the claim that the Draft Resolution submitted by Rokkenjima would somehow harm East Moreland in the process."

"I honestly cannot see what would be surrendered to Mr. Barren, as the Resolution clearly states what is expected of a sovereign Borland. If approved, the next logical step would be to initiate proceedings against Mr. Barren via the Uppsala Court, the MCUR, and any other Treaty he has signed; essentially we shall force him to prove the worth of his word on those documents he has made a commitment to. The evidence already exists to condemn him, and should he elect to not comply any value, however little there is, to his word would be swiftly proven hollow. Combined with an information campaign utilizing whatever communications everyday Borlanders have at their disposal we can effectively work to erode that trust, removing yet another leg which props up Mr. Barren."

"This accomplishes two goals: first it forces Mr. Barren to prove what his true motives are, self-preservation or the fate of his People, and allows us to remove any doubt as to what those motives are. Should Mr. Barren refuse to comply with the terms of the Resolution he would be proving that he is interested only in serving his interests, that he is not some mythical fighter of the Borland People. With a campaign to bring this information to the Borlanders they will see that a path to acceptance and legitimate statehood exists, that it could become a reality if Mr. Barren held their future above his own. The power of such a tool should not be underestimated."

"Make no mistake this will take effort and commitment, but it will be well worth it to bring about a lasting solution to the Borland Question. If we can work with people who had nothing to do with the actions of Mr. Barren and those in leading positions we can remove a threat to broader international stability as well as working to ease the concerns of East Moreland as well. A new, younger generation may be more willing to move beyond historic grievances, including the hopeful renouncement of claims upon Northfort and other East Moreland territory."

"We can allow Mr. Barren to tighten his own noose while granting the chance for a peaceful Borland to emerge from this situation. An approach which allows these two goals to co-exist is one I would hope my colleagues would see as a solution which has the chance to bring a peaceful resolution to this situation.
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OOC - On a note about Barren and the Borlanders, the Principality does not have much in the way of a reliable power grid but are certainly not cut off from the outside world. As for disinformation you should be aware that the people there are survivors of the Zimalian fever or born and bred Borlanders. As such the group there would see the Borlanders as life savers while the rest of the world watched so I believe a information campaign would fall on rather deaf ears.

As for the position of Kyle himself, he and King David would genetically be seen as very very distant cousins, they can trace their line back to King Robert (first King of East Moreland) in David's case, and Roberts older brother (King Niall of Borland) in Kyle's case. To those following the cult of Helus it is thought that the family are descended from the Cult's great human hero Raimond Unasson, so the bloodline would play an important role to them.
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"Point one" Cheryl said "Is that Zimalian foolishness does not equate to reason to attack them. Remember how the Borlanders first came into contact with Zimalia- to the Zimalian people the Borlanders aren't terrorists they're life savers. You therefore cannot know the Zimalian motivation in granting that land to the Borlanders.

Secondly I have to disagree over the consequential nature of Kyle Barren's acceptance of Ms Faust's proposal, it is of great consequence. Ms Faust is correct that normally Kyle's refusal would suggest he chooses himself over his people but with this resolution there is a real chance that Kyle's refusal could easily be spun into a positive for the Borlanders because there is a condition in the resolution that Kyle can use to justify such refusal.

Thirdly, what you surrender Ms Faust is control of the situation- in offering Kyle Barren a choice as you are doing in your proposed resolution you give him a chance to determine how it will go if he were to give himself up then I can see the news headline run by the International Borland News 'King Sacrifice's himself for his People' that's the legacy he would obtain and it's a legacy he does not deserve to have.

Forth you underestimate Kyle Barren substantially if you believe an information campaign like the one you have just outlined will actually work- Barren has not survived this long because of military fight or tactical ability. He has survived this long because he is a master of the Propaganda game, you take him on like that and you are playing him at his own game. There is a way to take that forward but you need to concede ground to do it."

"Ladies." Steven said his voice booming out from the front, it was hilarious really Yuriko and Cheryl were in the General Assembly practically next door neighbors and yet they were up and down like yo-yo's "May I suggest that before we vote on this that Ms Holmes takes Ms Faust down to her office in an attempt to form a resolution that embodies the basis of both proposals considering that both seek to do the same thing by different methods, the stakes are high we cannot afford a divided voice on this we need a unified voice."
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OOC- Wth regards to Dave's news article, the only issue is it should have come out AFTER the session had ended, having looked things up it seems how the UN works is "Closed" sessions stop reports being made during them and aren't televised, the minutes are issued after but any "security sources" are redacted.




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OOC- I'm guessing that the best place to deal with this would be a thread in the Palace of Nations Corridors sub-forum, I'd also suggest that people concerned are Achkaerin, Toshikawa, Rokkenjima, Lakhzovia and Odmony.
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Zuko's head was hurting from listening to all this petty fighting. Passive insults, emotion and arrogance were thrown around, something he hadn't seen anywhere but among Toshikawan school girls. No hono, dignity or respect do these people have for eachother, Zuko thought, visably exausted. Zuko sat in the small Toshikawan conference room where everyone caught their breath. "Progress?" The Shogun asked through the phone.

"No." Zuko sighed. "Sometimes I forget I'm not at home breaking a feud between my grandchildren. But each side is very stuck in place about what they want. I doubt the probationary period is acceptable now. Honestly, these proposals are simply drafts or dreams of Rokkenjima for 'when' they win an inevitable war against Borland and likely Zimalia."

"When the session begins, I trust you can defuse the situation." Sora hung up.
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