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| If Trump Became President | ||||
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| Topic Started: 25th January 2016 - 11:32 PM (3,120 Views) | ||||
| Gadshack | 25th January 2016 - 11:32 PM Post #1 | |||
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What are your predictions if this unruly psychotic man obtains the most powerful position as a world leader? For advance: #ImpeachTrump2017 Edited by Gadshack, 25th January 2016 - 11:32 PM.
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Factbook of Tokulel Ahkabnil Wiki | ||||
| Tytor | 25th January 2016 - 11:46 PM Post #2 | |||
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I would lose faith in the American people, for starters. After that, he would end up having to go back on most, if not all, his campaign promises, as Congress and the Supreme Court would likely block his attempts to institute state-sponsored discrimination, Mexico would merely laugh at his trying to force them to pay for American construction projects, and he'd probably end up impeached and removed from office by the end of 2018. In short, he would be the second-most ineffective president ever (only being beat out by William Henry Harrison), not even managing to force long-term changes onto the Republican Party, of which he claims to be a member despite not acting like one. Ultimately, Trump couldn't possibly remain in office long enough to do much damage. What would truly be worse would be a win by Sanders, as he might actually manage to remain in office for the full four years if his age doesn't get him first. |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 25th January 2016 - 11:55 PM Post #3 | |||
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With intentions to join the airforce i don't think I'd be comfortable calling that man Commander-in-Chief, though believing he'd be able to pass anything is absurd and agree with you in that regard. But I think Sanders becoming president would be the best thing, though that's just my opinion, his age is worrying. | |||
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| Tytor | 26th January 2016 - 03:27 AM Post #4 | |||
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I don't particularly like anyone on the field right now, actually. I mean, if it comes right down to it I'd vote for most of the Republican candidates, but the president I really want is Romney. Pity he isn't running again. That said, in the extremely unlikely event that Trump somehow gets the Republican nomination, I'm voting Democrat. Well, unless Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee, in which case I'm voting Libertarian. |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 26th January 2016 - 03:39 AM Post #5 | |||
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Shhhh be careful, you'll attract angry super liberals as the only conservative here...at the moment
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| Sparta | 26th January 2016 - 03:39 AM Post #6 | |||
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#Darxit
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Vote libertarian. #standforrand Anyway, most conservatives and liberals will definitely agree that Trump becoming president will be a disaster. |
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http://web.archive.org/web/20161002195809/http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8432594&t=11644836
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| Sparta | 26th January 2016 - 03:40 AM Post #7 | |||
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#Darxit
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There's Cool and President Pete, although both lean libertarian. |
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| Gadshack | 26th January 2016 - 03:41 AM Post #8 | |||
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Ah...well y'know me...a borderline Socialist. | |||
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| Sparta | 26th January 2016 - 03:43 AM Post #9 | |||
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#Darxit
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Actually, I think Cool101jr supported Trump. It would be nice to see his point of view on this thread. | |||
http://web.archive.org/web/20161002195809/http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8432594&t=11644836
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| Gadshack | 26th January 2016 - 03:50 AM Post #10 | |||
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The typical reason is that he is an outsider, which i understand, he's not Washington....but that's exactly the problem, he has no idea what he's doing. The best he can do is insult everyone and mention vague impossible, unrealistic policy that has nothing to do with the problems in this country. It's all about vote buying, he's just saying things to appease to the anger of many, i highly doubt he's genuine. In fact I think he's rather smart for his strategy, the manipulation of people's misguided feelings about several issues. At least when someone like Clinton is trying to appease to everyone, she's talking about actual issues, though it may just be non-genuine politics. Edited by Gadshack, 26th January 2016 - 03:55 AM.
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| Tytor | 26th January 2016 - 05:52 AM Post #11 | |||
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That is what is known as an occupational hazard.
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| CGJ | 26th January 2016 - 09:45 AM Post #12 | |||
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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See I'm holding out hope Trump is about to play the best card in international political history: being elected Republican nominee and, the day after the deadline passes for submitting candidates, withdraws from the election. Alternatively, he gets elected and just pushed ahead with Universal Healthcare ![]() But in all seriousness the only Republican candidate I'd consider voting for is Rand Paul, but even he's too far to the social and economic right. Hilary I'd vote for, I don't really know what the guy named after the cool one from Aristocats stands for, and would prefer, though think his election unlikely, Sanders. The wackiest stuff would get locked down by Congress...but maybe some important reforms (overturning Citizens United and UHC) would be able to get somewhere. |
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| Gadshack | 26th January 2016 - 01:28 PM Post #13 | |||
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Good luck...most Americans are under the misguided conception that UHC sucks and private healthcare is higher quality...which is false in most regards considering the healthcare systems in countries with UHC have a higher quality of healthcare but hey, we're Americans, we live in our tiny bubble not realizing many other's have been there done that. We'll catch up eventually.Citizens United, yes, please, kill it with fire. The good thing about Sanders is that he's bringing up the most important issues and awareness, it doesn't matter if he get's elected or not, he might just have an impact. Socialism is friend... |
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| Jeziel | 26th January 2016 - 07:43 PM Post #14 | |||
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Ron Paul 2016 | |||
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| Sparta | 27th January 2016 - 03:16 AM Post #15 | |||
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#Darxit
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^ thank you | |||
http://web.archive.org/web/20161002195809/http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8432594&t=11644836
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| CGJ | 27th January 2016 - 06:51 AM Post #16 | |||
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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| Beatrice | 27th January 2016 - 11:07 AM Post #17 | |||
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If Trump became President, I'd be booking a flight to the UK after asking C if he had a couch I could sleep on until I get established across the pond. Seriously, the thought of a Trump presidency is frightening, although I suppose I'd be exchanging my complaints for American politics for the complaints I've seen many times regarding British politics, but it'd be worth it. As for my preferred candidate, and who I will be voting for:
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| Sparta | 28th January 2016 - 12:49 AM Post #18 | |||
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#Darxit
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DgwPG7mAA
Edited by Sparta, 28th January 2016 - 01:14 AM.
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| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 11:20 AM Post #19 | |||
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Ron Paul is nuts (cue angry libertarians) |
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| Jeziel | 28th January 2016 - 03:11 PM Post #20 | |||
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Ron Paul is adorable though | |||
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| Beatrice | 28th January 2016 - 04:55 PM Post #21 | |||
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| Sparta | 28th January 2016 - 05:39 PM Post #22 | |||
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#Darxit
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Bernie Sanders is nuts. *cue angry socialists* |
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| Tytor | 28th January 2016 - 06:08 PM Post #23 | |||
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This. ^ |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 06:20 PM Post #24 | |||
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Someone is salty
Edited by Gadshack, 28th January 2016 - 06:28 PM.
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| Dijel | 28th January 2016 - 06:34 PM Post #25 | |||
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No idea who this guy is or what it stands for... but I did find this...
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Old Sig, for Posterity
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| Tytor | 28th January 2016 - 06:36 PM Post #26 | |||
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Do you happen to mean that someone here is a pretzel? Oh, and by the way, Donald Trump is nuts too. Edited by Tytor, 28th January 2016 - 06:37 PM.
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 06:37 PM Post #27 | |||
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Not exactly, I meant more like a bag of saltine crackers but a Pretzel will do, and is tastier depending on your preference. Edited by Gadshack, 28th January 2016 - 06:38 PM.
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| Tytor | 28th January 2016 - 07:03 PM Post #28 | |||
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Preference, and the type of pretzel in question. |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 07:21 PM Post #29 | |||
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He only mentions around 2 on average, that's Universal Healthcare and Education. So, it would be a rather boring game, you could get a light buzz. Edited by Gadshack, 28th January 2016 - 07:22 PM.
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| Sparta | 28th January 2016 - 07:51 PM Post #30 | |||
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#Darxit
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How about every time he refers to Trump |
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| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 07:57 PM Post #31 | |||
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3 times, he hardly mentions trump unless asked, which is on average once... It would be a good game with CNN and Fox news, and just about every Republican. |
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| Sparta | 28th January 2016 - 08:19 PM Post #32 | |||
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#Darxit
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Imagine what would happen if we drank a beer every time they mention "Hillary", "Obama", "Democrats", and "Middle East". The whole Independent Order's gonna be out for a while. |
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| Tytor | 28th January 2016 - 08:21 PM Post #33 | |||
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Good thing some of us don't drink, then, huh? |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 08:22 PM Post #34 | |||
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I second this, drinking is bad xD |
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| Sparta | 28th January 2016 - 09:21 PM Post #35 | |||
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#Darxit
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Quoteception |
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| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 09:32 PM Post #36 | |||
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the impossible staircase |
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Factbook of Tokulel Ahkabnil Wiki | ||||
| CGJ | 28th January 2016 - 11:01 PM Post #37 | |||
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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But weed is cool, ya?
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| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 11:24 PM Post #38 | |||
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Yes, in moderation
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| Tytor | 28th January 2016 - 11:28 PM Post #39 | |||
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Depends on who you ask. In my opinion, no. |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 11:52 PM Post #40 | |||
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The basis that weed is bad for you is based off of old preconceived notions. Ofoucrse when you see your typical pothead, their slowness and unintelligible baffling can make out the belief that it is bad for you and that is solidifies the claim that it kills neurons. The fact is, weed can become bad if done in excess just like drinking, the only difference is that even in excess marijuana will not kill you, though that does not justify potheads. When done in excess, it doesn't necessarily make you stupid but weird without it. The study of it killing neurons isn't really accurate, those who have smoked weed and have low IQs just, either happen to have low IQs or more likely, have poverty stricken upbringings with little or low quality of education. It's illogical to point to someone, and blame their actions and personality based off the simple fact they happen to or have done marijuana, while someone who has not done the drug can very well be the same way. Get what I'm saying? ![]() Marijuana is a great medical tool and I've even used it to deal with pain and depression. In my opinion, if people want to do it they can, legalization doesn't make a lick of difference of who does it or not. And if someone thinks it's bad for you, then fine, don't do it...but it's hard to dismiss the science. Edited by Gadshack, 28th January 2016 - 11:54 PM.
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| Tytor | 28th January 2016 - 11:55 PM Post #41 | |||
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For the record, I'm not trying to force anything on anyone, but I have religious reasons to avoid marijuana use. That, and I don't happen to want to form addictions. |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 28th January 2016 - 11:59 PM Post #42 | |||
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Reasonable enough |
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| DaveIronside | 29th January 2016 - 12:21 AM Post #43 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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Screw the politics........a light buzz off two beers????? You should see Nottingham on a Friday night..... if two beers is a light buzz you'd be horrified, two beers is like the first bar. |
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| Gadshack | 29th January 2016 - 01:00 AM Post #44 | |||
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meh...american beer. I've seen some crazy things as far as drinking
Edited by Gadshack, 29th January 2016 - 01:04 AM.
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| CGJ | 29th January 2016 - 10:19 AM Post #45 | |||
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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It's okay. I got high the other night. Sadly weed makes me very sleepy
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| Gadshack | 29th January 2016 - 11:09 AM Post #46 | |||
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It's quite overrated for doing it in recreation ![]() edit: meant overrated not underrated Edited by Gadshack, 29th January 2016 - 11:56 AM.
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| Jeziel | 29th January 2016 - 02:39 PM Post #47 | |||
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Can confirm |
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| Great Jonathania | 30th January 2016 - 08:52 PM Post #48 | |||
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I am glad I still have two years until I become a voter, because this election is going to quickly turn into a disastrous orgy of bad candidates. The Democratic nomination will probably go to either Clinton or Sanders (I won't discuss O'Malley because he has no chance of being nominated). Clinton is as corrupt as they come (not on Trumps level of course). She covered up many of her husbands sexual assaults last time she was in the White House and her charity takes in its funds from nations known for major women's rights violations, both of which are things that are extremely anti-feminist and not something that I feel we should remember our first female President by. As for Sanders, I really do like him. He is a people's man, unlike the elitist Clinton, and I love his vision for America as well as his ideals, but that's the problem. They are only ideals. Most of his ideas would be too financially implausible. For example, while I feel that it would be a good idea to cut down on tuition gradually, making state and public colleges and universities tuition free would be very costly. the fact is that he is too radical. While opposition from Congress might slow him down and cause the situation to work out well, I also don't really agree with him on his foreign policy (which I guess is more of a personal opinion, so I will not get into that here). He would never win the election anyway if nominated due to the fact that many so people view him as a major socialist and see socialist as a dirty word. As for the Republican candidates, Trump is obviously horrible. While I usually don't look to much at the social issues, as it is unlikely that any President would actually be able to overturn marriage equality, Trumps bigger problem is harmful internal and foreign policies that can easily be enacted simply through executive orders. I like a lot of Rand Paul's internal policies, but with Daesh committing genocide in the Middle East, he is unlikely to do anything to stop it. As for Jeb Bush, I do not like the idea of political dynasties. Even though he is the "good" Bush, that is only because he does not stand for anything. Chris Christie is not that great. As a New Jersey resident, I will say for him that he was better than the previous governor and handled the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy pretty well, but he still has numerous scandals on his belt. I am also not too keen on any of the candidates in general that want to deport all immigrants, hate Muslims, or go around saying that "America is a Christian nation". At the end of the day, my favorite candidate would probably have to be Marco Rubio. Unlike many of the elitists, he was raised from poverty by two, poor, hardworking immigrants who did not give up on letting their son achieve the American dream until he himself then worked the rest of the way to make a name for himself. In this respect, he can relate to regular people, unlike elitists like Clinton, who felt the need to dress goth in an attempt to appeal to millennials. Of course, a candidate should not be judged just by their story, but by their policies. As far as policies go, he is not an extremist. I am happy with his foreign and domestic policies, and compared to other candidates, he seems like a more reasonable choice. That's just my opinion though. I just hope I will be able to get out of the country in time if Sanders or Clinton run against Trump. | |||
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| Gadshack | 31st January 2016 - 06:16 PM Post #49 | |||
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ah yes, the typical american answer to Bernie Sanders: "it's impossible! It's too idealistic!" Not to be insulting to my fellow proud Americans but you do know another world exist outside this country exist right? And that everything Bernie Sanders is talking about, much of Europe has already done. It's why you'll hear him commonly reference Scandinavia and at times the UK for their social policies, because we need to follow by example instead of blindly lead by example for once. Every issue that we bring up, has been solved or combated by various Scandinavian countries with many other countries in Europe following their example, and no it's not a matter of 'this is the united states it doesn't work like that', we're not special. This is not untouched or new territory. The fact of the matter is that we're richest country on Earth yet there is about to be only two classes in our country: Rich and Poor. Something like education is a right, not a privilege, unfortunately because our country has it's ideals twisted I'm resorting to the military for an education because following what I really want to do through collage is impossible in this economic environment. collage education, today at least, is on par of what a high school diploma or GED use to get you, now it can hardly take you anywhere without pure luck, yet many are unable to go to collage and most of all, make something out of collage because of underemployment, so far I've only heard Berine Sanders out of everyone on both Republican and Democratic sides mention that underemplyment is an issue, and it's not just about creating jobs but the kind of jobs. Free collage won't burn a hole in anybody's pocket, the issue is that America is so steeped in 'everyone for themselves' that there is a lack of understanding, that if the guy next to cannot flourish, then neither will you. The standards of academics and jobs in the global economy is rising, to a point that a collage degree today is hardly worth what a high school diploma use to be. As far as healthcare, again there is no issue for paying for it. His single payer program is very well laid out and very well worth the result, which is overall a better healthcare system. Now, time to wait for Sparta, Tytor and others, to attack me. Don't worry, my hammer and sickle are ready. |
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| Sparta | 31st January 2016 - 08:32 PM Post #50 | |||
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#Darxit
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Stick to mocking Trump, Gad | |||
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| Sparta | 31st January 2016 - 09:39 PM Post #51 | |||
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#Darxit
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It seems as if defending our political position is attacking you. So much for this being an open-minded discussion. Before I continue my rebuttal, I'd like to ask those reading this to read this with an open mind, biases aside.
There's a reason Europe's economy is horrible, especially for Sparta's RL counterpart. They're running out of other people's money, courtesy of socialism. The United States is the most ethnically and religiously diverse countries in the world, founded on libertarian principles. We are special compared to the rest of the world. Is the solution really to tax the rich and middle class? To deprive the employer of the means to compensate their employees? Then free college for everyone will increase the value of college education, right? A republican candidate(Rubio I think) mentioned that jobs that are easily learned at technical colleges, such as being a plumber or electrician, can earn at least $80/hour. The point is, one cannot expect to have a good job if they major in something unprofitable, instead you need to be smart and look out for good opportunities. That's what you get when you have more and more government regulation. It's because of socialism's attack on free market. How are you supposed to expand(and as a result, hire more workers) if the government os regulating you at every turn? Taxes will definitely increase, especially for the middle class. Bernie Sanders himself has admitted it. So is the solution is to tax the rich? To take away money from people that want to hire more employees and lower the price of their goods for the layman? That's not how economics works. You cannot profit if the government constantly snatches away all your money, and hands it to someone else. As Margaret Thatcher said about the economic state of Greece, "They ran out of other people's money" Again, will everyone owning a public college degree increase the value of a college degree? Again, Bernie Sanders has admitted that he will have to tax the middle class in order to fund for the healthcare. There's also the problem of healthcare itself: The fact is, healthcare creates a government-dependent(and therefore controlled) class. Not only is this making our government even more totalitarian and an abuse of power, it does not resolve the issue of poverty. What is the solution then? Reducing regulations on businesses and education, and reducing taxes will result in far more pocket money for the people of America. The forces of competition will drive costs for everyday Americans lower and the quality of education higher, and the extra money employers could have lost from taxes will be put towards further employment. |
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| Gadshack | 31st January 2016 - 10:14 PM Post #52 | |||
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1: That was a joke, no need to get offended. No one is open minded no matter how they put it. 2: Sources exactly? This is your opinion. The fact is that European economic fluctuation is politically based and hardly has anything to do with socialist policies. Noticed how I outlined Scandanavia because they're relatively doing better than everyone else with socialist policies. 3: No, we are not. This is blatant American arrogance stating that "we're unique" Yes, we are very diverse...on paper. As one of the ethnically diverse people of this country my experience hasn't been great. From what I've seen, we're such a melting pot that there is no diversity. 4: Ah yes, because taxing rich people will destroy our economy. I would like to point out that the middle class was at it's strongest under socialist policies in the 50s, where the rich were taxed up to 90% I believe 5: Do you understand what good opportunities are now a days? I can tell you just about the majority of people I know are struggling to find opportunity and end up working dead end jobs. And could I even afford tech collage? Not really, I'm not privileged as well as many these days. 6: Explain 7: And the government has been regulating companies and every turn how? Sources. 8: Again, it's not as simple as 'tax rich guys and economy collapses and everyone is poor' 9: This was geared at more of the ideological view of the U.S, I wasn't explaining the economics of anything. 10: Um, yes. As job standards increase, become more complex and demand for those jobs increase so will academic standards to train people to fill those jobs. 11: Right, because every nation who has universal healthcare is a dictatorship? right? and lastly: an open minded discussion? Who told you those existed because they don't. No one is open-minded, discussions turn into debates for a reason and the fact that you took a joke so hard ignited this 'close-minded' discussion in the first place. |
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| Sparta | 31st January 2016 - 10:20 PM Post #53 | |||
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1. Sorry for taking the joke seriously. Dont forget people tend to do that on this site.(Example: Say "imperialism" on irc) 2. Please provide evidence and/or logic to back up all your points. I'd be very interested to see your point of view from more detail. 3. When I say open-minded, I meant that people put aside biases as much as possible, and to instead use logic and evidence, not to let this devolve into a flame war. Edited by Sparta, 31st January 2016 - 10:25 PM.
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| Sparta | 31st January 2016 - 10:27 PM Post #54 | |||
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Also:![]() MERICA |
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| Jeziel | 31st January 2016 - 10:43 PM Post #55 | |||
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Tbf though if I had to choose between Sanders or Ron Paul to have round to tea idk I feel like Bernie wouldn't be as fun to be with. I just like Ron Paul even if we disregard politics. | |||
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| Sparta | 31st January 2016 - 10:46 PM Post #56 | |||
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I don't know about that, bernie has an awesome accent and is pro-dank memes. |
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| Jeziel | 31st January 2016 - 10:52 PM Post #57 | |||
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I mean to be honest I'd have Trump round that'd be a laugh. Just not Hillary. | |||
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| Sparta | 31st January 2016 - 11:45 PM Post #58 | |||
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Rand Paul is great at roasting other candidates on his twitter, so he would be fun to have around. | |||
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| Beatrice | 1st February 2016 - 10:17 AM Post #59 | |||
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![]() You can thank FDR for the modern American middle class, a class which is quite the aberration in capitalist societies. Socialism isn't some great evil, and there are several ways which Americans experience a level of socialism every day. The problem, I feel, arises from the assosciation between socialism and Stalinism which has persevered since the days of the red scare, thus they quite quickly lose their relevance. Anyway, let's look at some facts:
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| CGJ | 1st February 2016 - 12:23 PM Post #60 | |||
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I didn't intend on getting directly involved in the debate but...
The reason for Europe's (and in particular, southern Europe's) poor economic performance goes much deeper than 'They're running out of other people's money.' Successive governments increased expenditure, yes. But they also failed to account for the single most destructive economic crisis since the 1930s Great Depression. This is compounded with countries like Italy and Greece who had (and, at least in the case of the latter, still has) a very laissez faire approach to the collection of taxes, lied about their financial position before joining the Euro and have subsequently put a huge strain on the continent's economy. Otherwise much of northern Europe is (slowly) growing, much like the United States.
This is silly. While I'm not justifying 90% tax rates, taxing massive earners more than you tax lower classes does not prevent an employer paying their employees. Regulation serves a purpose to protect consumers, employees and members of the public – as well as the wider economy. It was the massive deregulation of the banking sector that allowed the financial collapse in 2007-09 to happen. There seems to be this odd idea that the government waves its regulations at employers and companies in order to spite them, it doesn't. And often this 'regulation' is a lot less stringent or evil than it is made out to be.
I don't think anyone here is suggesting a 100% tax rate so this point is null.
He has, and that's what happens. People pay taxes. But nobody seems to have an issue with $600 billion going to the military every year?
You know what? You're right! Healthcare creates a government-dependent class. Why? Because healthcare is expensive! Because when you allow a hospital to operate like a for-profit corporation, the interests of the patients will always end up secondary to the needs of the shareholders. In the pharmaceuticals industry, this is essential as it drives the desire to develop new drugs, but in general healthcare, is there that same incentive? Healthcare is ultimately a monopoly. If you have a heart attack, you're taking to the closest hospital. You don't get a choice. The first priority of that hospital should be your welfare, and not whether you can afford the treatment.
While universal healthcare doesn't resolve the issue of poverty, it doesn't aim to. It aims to reduce poverty, and to ensure those in poverty have the same access to basic treatment as the multi-millionaire down the road.
Hmm. The issue is, while yes you could cut education and health budgets so that ordinary people don't subsidise them, and yes employees will have higher net salaries, much (if not all) of it would be made redundant by the private costs of insurance, or private education. Deregulation of industry is not always the best solution. Sometimes, as much as it's hated, regulation is absolutely necessary. Put simply, the healthcare systems in the world are not private, free-market ones. They are ones that are either fully universal (like the NHS in the UK and the Canadian health system) or involve a mix of private insurance and government protection (Germany, France and the Netherlands). The American health system ranks far below these systems, and I fail to see how 'deregulation' (and thus allowing for more profit to be extracted from healthcare) would either improve the state of American health, or make it any cheaper for middle class families. Sidenote on higher education: I actually believe people should pay to go to college/university, but the current American system is broken and genuinely excludes hundreds of thousands of able people from attending. A solution that the UK has, is where you take a loan from the government to pay for your college/university tuition, which you pay back dependent on your earnings. This prevents people from being excluded from higher and further education, but also means they ultimately take responsibility for paying it. |
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| Gadshack | 1st February 2016 - 03:15 PM Post #61 | |||
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Also, to erase misconceptions about socialism. first off: socialism =/= communism From wikipedia: "Socialism is a variety of social and economic systems characterized by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production" notice the 'democratic'. Now this is not saying that Socialism itself is democratic, it's outlining that there are a wide range of socialist ideologies. Various other defining interruptions: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism Modern socialism is changing, you'll hear almost every socialist advocate promote democracy alongside it. Now I could go in to the root of Marxism and how communism and socialism originally does promote democracy, but was misinterpreted, but that it s rant for another time. Off Point Anti-Capitalist Ranting Now my point, is that socialism is not what you make it out to be, it ranges in a very diverse set of ideals. It doesn't mean you have to like it but understand that socialism does not equate to stalinism, which is a far cry from socialism in the first place. Now I'm pretty sure you can observe various types of capitalism and see you cannot agree with all of them. In fact most of them are quite destructive... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Types_of_capitalism |
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 04:36 PM Post #62 | |||
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I wont have the time to continue with the debate/anti-capitalist clusterfuck, got too much going on with life and RP. | |||
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| Gadshack | 1st February 2016 - 04:50 PM Post #63 | |||
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Why so salty? Never said I was anti-capitalist directly nor did anyone else, simply critiquing an ideology and system doesn't make it a clusterfuck. If you're truly confident in your belief then you should be able to justly defend it when you engage in a debate, not lash out.Remember, you chose to engage and then everyone else jumped in, you should've expected it. Edited by Gadshack, 1st February 2016 - 04:51 PM.
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 06:32 PM Post #64 | |||
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This wasn't a debate, it was a bunch of leftists mobbing me right after I made my points. Anyway, I don't really have the time for this, I have a lot of RL and RP stuff I need to catch up on. |
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| Gadshack | 1st February 2016 - 06:38 PM Post #65 | |||
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if you want it to be a debate, then debate back. It's that easy. | |||
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 06:39 PM Post #66 | |||
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I really don't have the time to respond to 36 points(give or take) by three different people. |
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| Jeziel | 1st February 2016 - 06:51 PM Post #67 | |||
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If Ron Paul were here he'd make everyone a nice cup of tea with a small cake and chat about general stuff and we'd all be happy. | |||
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| Gadshack | 1st February 2016 - 06:55 PM Post #68 | |||
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Then don't get angry about it. It just makes you seem like you have no backing for your initial claims in the first place. Ron Paul is a nice guy, what turns me off about him is libertarian-ism but most of all, his fan base. Alot of them are conspiratorial crazies who even go to the extent of believing in a new world order. |
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 06:58 PM Post #69 | |||
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Ugh...mondays Sorry about the blowing up part though, its my bad |
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 06:59 PM Post #70 | |||
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On a random note going drinking with donald trump would be hilarious | |||
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| Gadshack | 1st February 2016 - 07:02 PM Post #71 | |||
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Wouldn't be too sure Sparta, he is a pure heavenly angel gifted from the great american god in a basket, flown from the sky in fine linens by a bald eagle. So yeah, he prolly don't drink, it would corrupt his heavenly-ness. | |||
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| Beatrice | 1st February 2016 - 07:34 PM Post #72 | |||
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Mentioning libertarianism, I find Chomsky's remarks enlightening: |
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| Tytor | 1st February 2016 - 07:43 PM Post #73 | |||
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Want to know what my thoughts were as I caught up on this thread? "Pass the popcorn, please." Seriously, though. Why can't we, as human beings, respect the fact that not everyone sees things the same way? Some people (myself included) advocate for as little government intervention in economics as possible; others (including most of the active posters on this forum) believe in stronger government intervention in economics; still others (I can't think of any off the top of my head right now) even advocate for full government control of economics. There are differences of opinion between people. Can we agree on that? Yes? Good; let's get back to bashing Trump, shall we? |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Jeziel | 1st February 2016 - 07:45 PM Post #74 | |||
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I'm just trying to condition people with Ron Paul's adorableness. Headway thus far is insignificant. | |||
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 07:51 PM Post #75 | |||
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Thank you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJfH9O0w1WY |
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| Beatrice | 1st February 2016 - 07:52 PM Post #76 | |||
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The debate everyone's wished for: Trump vs Trump!
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| CGJ | 1st February 2016 - 08:13 PM Post #77 | |||
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So your points are challenged, quite reasonably, by myself and others. I won't speak on behalf of anyone else, but I certainly wasn't mobbing you. If you can't be bothered to defend what you say, then either so – or just don't reply. I don't have the time to RP much of the time here, anymore. But don't degrade others to a 'bunch of leftists' mobbing you or calling the chat an 'anti-capitalist clusterfuck'. I've tried debating you, but you obviously don't want to have a debate on it, since – by your logic – it goes against your corporate-loving right-wing capitalist utopian world. Dismissing people who believe differently to you as 'leftist mobs' is so entirely counterproductive, particularly as others like you accuse the 'loony left' of doing the same to right-wingers. |
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| Sparta | 1st February 2016 - 08:17 PM Post #78 | |||
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I didn't like it how all of you jumped in during me and Gad's debate. Also, there's a bunch of nutjobs on all sides. Doesn't matter if you're liberal/libertarian/conservative. |
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| Gadshack | 1st February 2016 - 08:26 PM Post #79 | |||
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I agree, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with a debate. In the end, people can think however they want and always think they're right, it's why debates exist. |
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| Sparta | 2nd February 2016 - 12:29 AM Post #80 | |||
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DgwPG7mAA Time for Donald Trump to be interviewed by his favorite person. |
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| Great Jonathania | 2nd February 2016 - 12:41 AM Post #81 | |||
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I feel like me two years ago would have a lot of fun in this discussion | |||
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| Gadshack | 2nd February 2016 - 12:49 AM Post #82 | |||
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Donald Trump is proof that anyone can run for President, as long as they preach hate speech that appeals to many uneducated
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| Sparta | 2nd February 2016 - 12:52 AM Post #83 | |||
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODlo1ifNwbI | |||
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| Great Jonathania | 2nd February 2016 - 03:20 AM Post #84 | |||
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Anyone following the Iowa caucus? It's pretty intense. | |||
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| Tytor | 2nd February 2016 - 05:37 AM Post #85 | |||
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And it's official: Trump's lost Iowa. Could this be the beginning of a trend? I certainly hope so. | |||
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Achkaerin | 2nd February 2016 - 09:25 AM Post #86 | |||
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Speaking as a Brit who |
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| CGJ | 2nd February 2016 - 12:15 PM Post #87 | |||
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Oddly Clinton seems to only have won Iowa due to coin tosses. What a weird idea. I mean, I get it for starting Quidditch games but...elections? On a coin toss? Surely rock, paper, scissors is fairer...:P |
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| Gadshack | 2nd February 2016 - 08:27 PM Post #88 | |||
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Don't think the coin toss really mattered. I mean I support Sanders all the way but it's also my opinion that who the president is hardly matters. If anything the make-up of Congress is of more importance as who is the president, who is essentially a figurehead in most cases anyway. Though, someone like Sander's wishes to bring attention to this. Our system is massively ineffective, it really blows my mind that it's conceived that the the election of the President matters more than anything, like it seriously changes everything. Good news is that Trump came in second, which hopefully means this is the beginning of his downfall. Some call Sander v Clinton a tie, some say clinton wins it, I say it's too close to really call entirely. All that matters to me, is that Ben Carson died off long ago and hopefully Trump is heading that route. Edited by Gadshack, 2nd February 2016 - 08:29 PM.
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| Epanastasia | 3rd February 2016 - 02:01 PM Post #89 | |||
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http://youtu.be/XQs-XA3X2bE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Check out this vid, it's got some interesting theories. |
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| CGJ | 9th February 2016 - 08:35 PM Post #90 | |||
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I didn't really know who Marco Rubio was (although I'm familiar with Christ Christie), but this made me laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0WUtNJAo9k | |||
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| Gadshack | 10th February 2016 - 03:48 AM Post #91 | |||
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4tP7ogWIA i'm calling it: Bernie v Trump, this election will live in infamy no matter who gets elected xD Despite that, i doubt any awareness will be raised on how important congress is.... Edited by Gadshack, 10th February 2016 - 03:50 AM.
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| Sparta | 10th February 2016 - 04:12 AM Post #92 | |||
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Fuck libertarianism, I'm voting for Vermin Supreme. http://www.verminsupreme.com/ Edited by Sparta, 10th February 2016 - 04:13 AM.
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| Tytor | 10th February 2016 - 04:29 AM Post #93 | |||
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Sanders and Trump both need to win more than just New Hampshire to be nominated. It is difficult (to say the least) to call an election based on just two states, each of which had a different result. |
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His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People Factbook -- News -- Press Office Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order Professional Procrastinator In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020 Non-partisan and proud of it "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire | ||||
| Gadshack | 10th February 2016 - 05:34 AM Post #94 | |||
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I know, just throwing stuff around. Pondering the idea is exciting yet frightening. Though alot more frightening. Trump wins, he'll surely be impeached but it'll be hell, perhaps he might not start world war 3 in the mean time. Sanders wins, still better than Hilary and any other Republican(imo) but nothing will get accomplished. His first three years he will be criticized widely and his presidency will be considered a failure. I can hear it now, the ranting about foreign policy and strives for healthcare and education, Berniecare and Edusanders will be downed for every single flaw. Either way I think, though a sanders supporter, we're on some level 'screwed'. Just please no..no trump. I shall pray to the sun gods.... Edited by Gadshack, 10th February 2016 - 05:43 AM.
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| Gadshack | 26th February 2016 - 02:37 AM Post #95 | |||
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I find it funny that Republicans will use religious freedom as a cause against gay Marriage. Sure, the Constitution protects everyone's freedom to practice any religion they want, but that doesn't make religion the authority over everyone. The Constitution protects your right, not your feelings, Two men or women getting married is not infringing on anybody's religious freedom, only their beliefs and feelings, but is it stopping them from believing that way? No. EDIT:- States are not excluded from the constitution because of 'states rights' Edited by Gadshack, 26th February 2016 - 02:43 AM.
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| CGJ | 26th February 2016 - 02:51 AM Post #96 | |||
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This GOP debate is bizarre. I mean how dare a government provide healthcare for its people | |||
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| Gadshack | 26th February 2016 - 03:01 AM Post #97 | |||
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Yes C, but if the constitution doesn't have it in writing, then we don't do it. Bill of Rights safeguards human rights to everyone basically, but doesn't mention marriage. So obviously that not a right? Right? Funny how history has repeated itself, there's always a group of people striving for equality...women's voting, jim crow, etc. Oh but Jim Crow were just state's rights...same justification used then is used now, only against a different minority. It's funny that Ben Carson sounded like Bernie Sanders for a second, "Other countries have a higher standard and better access to healthcare than us." then goes on to layout a plan to tear down Obamacare. Now I don't think Obamacare is great, is a step in the direct to UHC? Sure. But is it a good direction? No. All those other countries Carson talks about that have better healthcare, and other's would agree...have UHC xD This is comedic but has absolute truth to it ![]() Edited by Gadshack, 26th February 2016 - 05:19 AM.
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| Sparta | 29th February 2016 - 11:28 PM Post #98 | |||
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Looks like Autarch's pulling off a Donald Trump. http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8354173&t=11138991 |
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| Gadshack | 29th February 2016 - 11:52 PM Post #99 | |||
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Look, I don't care if any of you don't support Bernie or not, but hope he get's off well on super tuesday, Because Hilary vs Trump, makes Trump looks like a holy passionate god while Hilary looks like an emotionless, computing, plotting drone. Hilary would have a chance...but Bernie is nearly guaranteeing a victory against Trump
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| Beatrice | 1st March 2016 - 12:19 AM Post #100 | |||
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Trump Will Become President, Says Extremely Accurate Statistician
Apparently the model has only been wrong one time since 1912, which was the election of 1960. Hopefully it will be proven wrong a second time should Trump indeed win the Republican nomination. |
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^ 2:05 PM Jul 11
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May the force be with you.






























