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If Trump Became President
Topic Started: 25th January 2016 - 11:32 PM (3,119 Views)
Gadshack
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What are your predictions if this unruly psychotic man obtains the most powerful position as a world leader?

For advance: #ImpeachTrump2017

Edited by Gadshack, 25th January 2016 - 11:32 PM.
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#Darxit
Gadshack
29th February 2016 - 11:52 PM
Look, I don't care if any of you don't support Bernie or not, but hope he get's off well on super tuesday, Because Hilary vs Trump, makes Trump looks like a holy passionate god while Hilary looks like an emotionless, computing, plotting drone. Hilary would have a chance...but Bernie is nearly guaranteeing a victory against Trump :P
Don't forget there's more Republican candidates than Trump. There's the canadian and the mexican and that sleepy black guy
http://web.archive.org/web/20161002195809/http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8432594&t=11644836
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Sparta
1st March 2016 - 12:24 AM
Gadshack
29th February 2016 - 11:52 PM
Look, I don't care if any of you don't support Bernie or not, but hope he get's off well on super tuesday, Because Hilary vs Trump, makes Trump looks like a holy passionate god while Hilary looks like an emotionless, computing, plotting drone. Hilary would have a chance...but Bernie is nearly guaranteeing a victory against Trump :P
Don't forget there's more Republican candidates than Trump. There's the canadian and the mexican and that sleepy black guy
If any of them get it then the Dems more than likely have it.
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Rhodes
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From A Canadian POV:

I have already mentions our deep cover agent, CODENAME: CRUZ.
Heres the rest of them:

Trump: The cartoon version of Bush. In an effort to differentiate himself from Bush, he has to be dumber, crazier and more intolerant. Scary in a "USA self destructs" kinda way. The reality TV version of US government. Will undoubtedly contribute to the further polarization of american politics and the elimination of moderate and centralist views.

Clinton: Frightening woman. Basically a cyborg that hates canadians. Probably only running to regain the upper hand in her marriage. Prepare for continuous "Bitch Anthem" moments and general unsanity. This woman will burn down her own house to prove a point that doesnt exist or is just plain wrong.

Sanders: Vote for this guy.
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Just curious, as a Canadian, what would your view of Jill Stein be? :P
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Well there is always Canada
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
Rhodes
 
Clinton: Frightening woman. Basically a cyborg that hates canadians. Probably only running to regain the upper hand in her marriage. Prepare for continuous "Bitch Anthem" moments and general unsanity. This woman will burn down her own house to prove a point that doesnt exist or is just plain wrong.


I wonder if Hilary makes Bill dress up in drag and call himself the First Lady every time they have an argument...
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1st March 2016 - 09:21 AM
Rhodes
 
Clinton: Frightening woman. Basically a cyborg that hates canadians. Probably only running to regain the upper hand in her marriage. Prepare for continuous "Bitch Anthem" moments and general unsanity. This woman will burn down her own house to prove a point that doesnt exist or is just plain wrong.


I wonder if Hilary makes Bill dress up in drag and call himself the First Lady every time they have an argument...
That sounds very sexy actually
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...All right, it's official. You guys are all weird.
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#Darxit
Been on IRC much, Tytor?
http://web.archive.org/web/20161002195809/http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8432594&t=11644836
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I'll put it simply as far as the Republicans go- the sooner that party does what the UK Labour party failed to do the better. (though I would love to see Trump lose Alaska)

In terms of the democrats considering the lead Hillary has going into Super Tuesday in terms of delegates (I believe she's almost 400 or 500 ahead), I get the impression that if Sanders is going to prize the nomination from her he's got to do something unexpected. If he doesn't carry a majority of the states then it's just one step closer to this being what it has long been touted as.
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@Beatrice. No idea who Jill Stein is so I cant comment yet. I wil read up on her when I can and let you know though.
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I love Jill Stein, the issue is that when it comes down to it, for me casting a vote for her does not matter or is useless. I understand the whole viability thing but honestly, I have a life and I can't advocate for the candidate I want 24/7, which is what Jill Stein needs. I mean...everyone I've came across have asked me "Wait, what the fuck is a Jill Stein yo?" and I educate them on her position, policies, suck the green party's dick, etc, and then almost by magic their face says: "But is she Hilary Clinton?" :P So yeah, if Bernie get's the nomination, which isn't likely, then I'll vote for him, if not, screw Hilary and screw viability, I'm going Jill Stein, though at beast it will hardly be a futile effort...

In short: People don't want a President but a mascot and/or entertainer. Hell, many people support someone like Donald Trump because they think it would be funny.
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#Darxit
^courtesy of our rigged two party system
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Voting for Trump as a joke? Surely that's only funny if the image of a coldly calculating Russian walking all over a bombastic, but ultimately inept, white supremacist amuses you.

Long story short, I'd find this whole thing a great deal more hilarious if this were a less influential country we were talking about :P

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American democracy is so rigged because the lack of participation and care from the people themselves, at it's core democracy leans on active participation and caring for your country but we've grown so comfortable no decision matters because we believe, we'll always have our quality of life no matter what because that is how it's always been. This lack of participation has resulted in a rigged system, an incompetent government, etc. In this case, you get what you vote or not vote for, the Government is made of people, and when you vote for shitty people or don't care, you'll get a shitty government.

this video explains it well talking about the debt issue :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSHI9PDh6GM&ab_channel=yetidynamics
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Ok, so in short I mostly like Jill Stein. She's personable, speaks well and is basically everything Hillay is not. She also has more than a few ideas that are right at home in Canada. Universal healthcare is the only way to go. Basically any healthcare system comes down to a choice. You can either suffer from long wait times or people in your nation will die because they cannot afford it. Full stop. End of story. Canadians chose that their citizens will wait (for ELECTIVE TREATMENTS) and no one dies cause they are poor. No one in Canada waits for emergency or life saving treatment. I seriously question the intelligence and moral integrity of anyone who's against universal healh care.

Minimum wage: 15/hour s good. Everyone that puts in 40 hrs a week should make enough to support themselves wi a reasonable standard of living. That brig said, minimum wage is designed to support the one working it. It is not designed to support a family.

Universal education, abolish student debt.: universal education I assume is k-12. This is the same as universal healthcare. It's merits stand alone and need not be discussed. Student debt: universities need to make money and pay professors. Bottom barrel universities should be affordable to alll and a way for anyone to earn a degree if they are so inclined. You want a science degree from Utah State? Come on in! You want he same degree from Harvard? It's gonna cost a bit more sonny.

Banks: breaking them up isn't what's needed. Prudent and reasonable regulation is. There is a reason canadian banks are the best in the world and we didn't have a meltdown in the 2008 crash.

Personally, I am a centralist, slightly right of center, and I believe that any kind of extremism is harmful. Right wing, left wing, ultra patriot, a anti-establishment...whatever. Where Sten loses me is on the environment. Do human impact the world? Of course! Are we on the verge of some kinda endgame. No. I'm not even sure if "climate change" is a thing, the earth is friggin old, with a day that's less than 24 hrs, an orbit that's not exactly 365 days and what have you. Will the earth experience some kind of hearng and cooling trend over its lifespan? Hell yes. Oil is easy to hate on. People call the oil sands "tar sands" to be scary. Basically, people dig a pit, grab the oil sand and fill it back up. Then they plant trees and shit. I know, I have been there. Do we need to renewable energy? Yes. Should we shut off he pipeline? No. What we should be looking at s an oil tax. Tax those corporations and use the funds for renewable energy development. Frankly, drilling for oil is exactly the same as drilling in a geothermal acess vent.

Jill stein has two major problems. If she truly wants to effect change in the environment she has to look at what is really happening in regards to what impacts the environment. Then she has to work towards that goal in small, sure steps. People hate change and the bigger he change he more they hate it.

They other major problem is the American electoral process. It completely fucked up. Choosing republican or democrat is like saying choose coke or Pepsi. And there is ONLY coke or Pepsi and no you can't have fucking water cause this is America. Plus the presidential debate people only invite Democrats and Republicans. That lawsuit seriously needs to be won. You need more parties.

In my opinion Stein and Sanders are both good. It just depends on your preferred "flavour"....oh and stein should go by Dr. Jill Stein, not just Jill Stein. It might remind people she had a real job once (and that she's not a fucking lawyer) and that she may...just may....have some idea about the U S healthcare system and possible how to fix it. Obamacare is not universal healthcare, it's a shitty half measure.

Anyway, just my observations...and it's not like I'm voting.

PS

Plus, if "climate change" advocates tell people hey have experienced the horrors of climate change and don't know what a fucking Chinook is....well that kinda says all you need to know about the "climate change" people. Im looking at you DiCaprio...you retard.


Edited by Rhodes, 1st March 2016 - 09:55 PM.
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Climate change is real....alot of science points to it. The Earth will naturally heat, the issue is that Human's are speeding this process with undue pollution. And if not for climate change, then pollution, example: Flint. We fail to realize that sources like natural gas are also harming our health. Now do I believe that the sky is falling? No, on those terms I agree to you. But I believe our way of life will change from the usual now, due to our foolish exploitation of resources for short term profit will bite us in some way in the future. Surprising to some I'm very moderate on politics, though I do subscribe to Marxist ideals I know what's practical in the here and now, socialism and all the left ideologies are good for critiquing the capitalist machine to improve and regulate it rather than implement an anti-cap system.

I mean I'm not saying I'm experiencing the horror of climate change but never in my short years of being on Earth have I experienced summer and spring temperature in winter... :P it's like snowed....TWICE here where it normally snows for half of the damn year. Then again I'm not an expert on this weather stuff, so I try not to assume :P
Edited by Gadshack, 1st March 2016 - 10:11 PM.
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Yeah, I get that. I guess what I wanted to stress was its good we are heading to renewable energy now, but we need to do slow in a constant, moderate pregression towards our end goal. We can't just turn everything off.of course humans impact the environment. I'm just pointing out hat breathing negatively impacts the environment, but no one talks abou overpopulation and the many OTHER ways we affect the world...it's all oil oil oil.
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Oh yeah, overpopulation is the bigger issue next to it for me, in the end I think environmental impacts and growing unsustainable population, coupled with a system designed for short term prosperity and profit will change things, and not entirely for the better, but not at such a dramatic caliber like some Orwellian stuff =P
Edited by Gadshack, 1st March 2016 - 10:58 PM.
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#Darxit
It's official. Democracy doesn't work.
https://www.google.com/search?q=super+tuesday
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Yeah, because not enough people care, if more cared about our system it would work.
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America's political system = too perfect a separation of powers model.
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Anyone else think Trump making his supporters take a oath...a little bit strange? =P Pledging loyalty to trump sounds like the equivalent of pledging to a particular dictator...considering Donald Trump's rise has been eerily similar...
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#Darxit
I pledge allegiance to Supreme Leader Trump of the United States of Trumpia, and to the dictatorship on which he stands, one nation, under Trump, heavily divisible, with tyranny and injustice for all.
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I have not made the afford of reading all the previous posts in this thread. First let me say this: I don't think Sanders will get around the democratic party establishment, meaning I think he will fail by not getting enough Super-Delegates. I'm however more than content that millions of young americans are brave enough to stand up and rally behind an out-spoken socialist. Even if Sanders doesn't succeed, if his candidature leads to a America where the word socialism can be more than a mere swear word that would be worth it.

If Trump becomes US-president the United States loose all their freedom-fuck-yeah-america-bragging-rights forever. Doing terrible things and undermining the own principles while saying you're great is one thing. But relishing and celebrating these terrible things and electing this absurd rich man masculinity cult leader... you might as well adopt the swastika right away.

But hey, maybe Canada and the EU will accept you as a refugee. Better bring a diploma, though...
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If it's thought that Hilary will get the nod without cringe, with her projected to lose against most republicans and her having major trust issues, coupled with the majority of Americans hating her, well then no one is paying attention to the amount of momentum and support is rising for Sanders. I highly doubt when it comes down to it, the DNC would risk all the baggage that potentially comes with Clinton, she's losing traction and definitely after this recent debate(Sanders got a standing ovation yo) And a super delegate is just that, a super delegate, one who is free to support any candidate, and well...the tide has been turning for a while against her. Hilary can very well get it, but Bernie's impact can't be denied...
Edited by Gadshack, 10th March 2016 - 07:23 PM.
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this video is spot on: https://youtu.be/_aFo_BV-UzI
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Lol, mostly likely the reason why some of my friends and relatives in New York and New Jersey who keep asking me about Australian and Finnish Immigration law, lol.
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Please vote for Trump, I want to watch the world burn.

But seriously, VOTE 1 for not Trump.
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If Trump is elected... WWIII will occur and it just shows that Americans still cannot choose an appropriate leader..

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROBTDSK46aU

#TRUMP
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Honestly if he wins I already have a backup plan

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#Darxit
Hold your horses kids, because Trump has just beat Cruz, and all that's left is probably Hillary, so all of America has to go on a crazy ride on the Trump Train! And it's gonna be HUUUUUGGGEE!
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Europe is preparing: https://www.neweurope.eu/article/germany-launch-initiative-european-army/
(I had seen this on national news website, but when I tried to find it, I had all kind of websites of brexit supporters who really seem to hate this idea. If the brexit referendum comes after the American elections, the British might be safer within the union than having to deal with the USA on themselves.)
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Brexit referendum is in June, and I fully intend voting to remain though I have a bad feeling that because the general public don't fully grasp the intricacies of the eu they will vote to leave. Though this is a discussion for a separate thread.

Let me put it this way assuming it's Hillary vs Trump, that is on paper for any objective person outside the states a Clinton victory. She's the one every western leader wants, she has experience as a senator, she has experience as a Secretary of State, she should kick Trump's backside in the presidential debates in fact she has to beat him because if she doesn't then America's credibility, integrity and reputation can be introduced to the nearest toilet.
Edited by Achkaerin, 5th May 2016 - 08:10 AM.
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Since corruption isn't a problem in the US of A, then I would say that the winner would be Hillary (but I support Bernie Sanders). Not that I'm saying that Trump isn't good enough of a choice (well, he really isn't good enough of a choice) but Hillary already had experiences in the political world, while Trump is just a billionaire who decided to run for the presidency. Trump may be good at managing business, but a country? It's totally different. But who cares, I'm not a citizen of the US of 'Murica!
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Speaking of Trump, if any of you are interested, a couple of political analysts in the Philippines described one presidential candidate named Rodrigo Duterte as the "Donald Trump of the Philippines". Below is a statement that somehow summarizes him. After reading that, do you agree that he is really like Donald Trump?


From PH Daily Inquirer
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Epsilon facepalms

Guys. I understand there's a meme going around about trump being the worst thing since cancer. I noticed this thread, and after sparta's little neo-nazi comment, i'd like to offer a splash of cold water on what seems to be an open season on American republicans and/or conservatism.

In Israel, supposedly they have a rule in the executive cabinet, called the "11th man rule"[1]. The principle of the 11th man rule is that, if 10 people in the decision making body agree, it is the 11th man's job to disagree, and try to convince everyone of his case. This prevents bad decisions being hastily made on the fallacy of consensus.

As such, i'm going to present an 11th man argument here, only because this got stuck in my craw and i couldn't let it go, not because i think you guys are wrong or I want to convince you to change your minds. I just want to present a contrary opinion to what appears to be the consensus.




1- Trump is going to win because Fear resonates with people far better than pragmatism.

For this argument, i'm assuming a Hillary vs. Trump general election. Hillary's campaign seems to rely almost exclusively on her prior political experience. She knows the ins and outs of domestic and international politics.

Trump's campaign is using Fear. Here's what I mean by that.

I believe great leaders present a moral case for taking action. Look at Reagan's A Time for Choosing speech[2][3], or JFK's speech declaring his intent to go to the moon[4]. Great leaders present a moral case. Because doing the right thing resonates more than fear. If JFK's reason for going to the moon was, "THE RUSSIANS WILL BEAT US AND THEN NUKE US FROM SPACE" then it would be silly and probably wouldn't have rallied the country.

Obama has had numerous opportunities to present a moral case. Why should we fight ISIS? Why should we grant amnesty to illegal immigrants? He hasn't been able to even DEFINE the problems that face america, much less present solutions, much less present solutions in a way that makes a moral imperative for americans to act.

Trump has yet to prove himself a great leader, but he's taking the first step towards a moral case by, at a minimum, defining our problems. Americans are scared shitless of ISIS. So what does he say the problem is? Islam! Of COURSE the problem is NOT islam. But He'll say it and Obama won't. The American Masses--who already believed Islam was the problem--cling to this. They see Trump bucking political correctness to address the reality of a situation. The same goes for his Wall. If the problem is illegal immigrants coming INTO america, then we need to keep illegal immigrants OUT of america. Best way to keep people out is to build a wall. Amnesty is complicated, a wall is simple. The least common denominator will respond positively to trumps message.

"But Epsilon" you say. "None of this makes Trump sound like the best candidate!" You're right! He's certainly not the best candidate. This is just part of my bullet point number 1 in which i present the case for Trump gaining broad popular support. He's saying the things that people believe, he's behaving in a way that seems like he'll actually address--even if it won't solve--the problems that American's are MOST concerned about today.

2- Trump does not represent Republicanism, or even Conservatism, but Anti-Establishment.

People the world over are FED UP with establishment politicians. This is expressing itself in several ways. Donald Trump is part of the American expression against the establishment. Politicians seem to hem and haw and try to take both sides of an argument and see who supports them most. There's lobbyists corrupting the system, and no one seems to want to take a firm stance on any issue for fear of ruining their chances in the NEXT election cycle. It's an absurdity. Trump takes a firm position on issues, which other politicians will not do. When you take a firm position, people can argue for it or against it. When you don't, no one can argue at all becuase you haven't said anything.

Additionally, Bernie Sanders is part of the same anti-establishment movement. A survey of trump supporters asked who they would vote for if Trump weren't in the race. A plurality (60%?) said Bernie Sanders. The opposite is also true, a survey of Sanders supporters asked the same question and a similar plurality said Trump. Bernie Sanders is not supposed to be a successful candidate. Democrat establishment laughed at him, the same way GOP establishment laughed at trump. but Bernie won't go away, he keeps winning states. He similarly takes a strong stance: He's a Socialist. Deal with it.

The world is becoming polarized because people LONG for their national leaders to stand for something other than their next election. I asserted the nationalist movements are an international phenomenon. Here's what I mean:

  • Scottish Nationalists (Socialist)
  • Catalan Independence (Socialist)
  • French Front Nationale (Nationalist)
  • Dutch Nationalists
  • Israeli Conservative sweep
  • Polish conservative sweep
  • Canadian Justin Trudeau (Socialist)
  • UKIP/Brexit


The list truly goes on. People are becoming MORE polarized in their voting habits BECAUSE of this phenomenon. The world is getting more dangerous, and citizens everywhere need to know where their leaders stand.

3- Trump Winning is not the end of the world

Part of the anti-trump meme is that the world is going to have to learn to take care of itself without America for 4-8 years while trump is president. That couldn't be more false. Trump has no political experience--but he has more executive experience than many of the other republican candidates, many of whom were freshman senators (just like Obama). It's possible that he's fearful campaign is part of a savvy marketing strategy, that he would be a much more moderate administrator. You can't judge that until it happens. But without a doubt, if Trump won he would utilize Realpolitik--a principle invented by the germans, perfected by the russians, and useful in international politics.

There are enough staffers and advisors in the white house and other bureaucratic nonsense that nuclear war would be IMPOSSIBLE. i can't believe i even have to address that. I'm not sure anyone here said it, but it's something i've had to argue against in my personal life. It's just silly.

Realpolitik is just a continuation of point #2 in that, Trump would take hard stances but in international politics. It would be uncomfortable. It would make world leaders nervous. But Putin already does this--look at how he's fucked ukraine or georgia. look at how he holds Europe hostage with oil and natural gas. Trump would use realpolitik for american interests and for american good. Because, ultimately, American Good is all that matters to Americans. The same way British Good needs to be all that matters to Britons.

4- The Only Way to Stop Trump is to Prove his Message is Unpopular

I'e said this since day 1 when the republican field still had 17 people in it. Trump is fueled by his poll numbers. No one will argue against him because that requires taking a firm stance. That's why Jeb Bush failed--he was supposed to be coronated this election cycle but Trump is The Mule.

Anyone combating Trump needs to meet Trump on the field of ideology, prove that their ideas are MORE popular and that Trump's are unpopular, and take the extra step to present a moral argument for their ideology, versus trumps.

In Conclusion
I support Trump because, I believe he's barking up the right tree, even if his solutions are ham-handed fear-populism. He's destroying the GOP establishment, which is a good thing. He's making the Media Elite extremely uncomfortable, which is a good thing. The Democrat Establishment will look foolish at the end, i'm confident.

To me, Trump represents a return to Ideological politics. Standing for something, in other words. I would much rather Trump, who stands for things and who i can argue for or against, than Hillary who, in my opinion, stands for nothing, and who will say or do anything to get elected[5].

I just wanted to present a counter argument. I will try my hardest to ignore this topic. I hope i have given everyone something to think about an an intelligent counter argument to your preconceived notions of a trump presidency.

Best,
-Epsilon
[1] i got this from a fictional book so i'm not sure if it's real, but i liked it as a concept and think it's a good example in this case, real or not.
[2] Long
[3] Short
[4] Take what you get
[5] And whom i sincerely believe has committed treason, waiting for this email/Clinton foundation stuff to be resolved
Edited by Epsilon, 5th May 2016 - 12:19 PM.


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Gadshack
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The only way a Trump presidency would be good is only driving the Progressive movement harder.

Hilary, would just stagnate progressive policy for the long term.




But sorry Epilson, still not swayed. I can't get with a man that talks about nuclear policy and generally all other world affairs like it's his personal grand strategy game, and one who seems to be a fan of reagonomics that have only damaged us this far. I can outline many other reason that personally resonate with me, and yes, I have taken a step back and looked at all in a more objective view, which is why I've been more reserved with Bernie Sanders. However as this point I don't see myself voting for anyone and I won't, not Trump of Hilary. I'll likely abstain, seeing that this is one of the many reasons I believe democracy is terrible(I support it but ffs man, populism is the death of reason). It's absolutely foolish to vote for the leader of the 'free world' based off principle and not clear defined pragmatic policy. It's gotten us into trouble. "Principle" is good to have, but pure principle doesn't drive a country, policy-making does. If you can't have a policy to define how you want to achieve your principle, then that bothers me. On the other you have Hilary, no principle, all calculating policy. The two are extremes, that I would rather not do.

Too me, it would make me so resistant that I would literally put my life on hold from joining the usaf, I will NOT ever call Trump my Commander-in-chief or have the slightest confidence in him as a civilian. I'd all out support a coup if that was to happen.(this is partially joke)
Edited by Gadshack, 5th May 2016 - 02:07 PM.
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An interesting take, Epsilon. I actually agree with a lot of your points: Trump appeals to people because he's seen as anti-establishment, uses fear, is able to (very effectively) divide his opponents, stirs hella attention in the media and talks 'common sense' in the eyes of the people.

Whether that's a good reason to support Trump, however, I think I would disagree with that assessment. One of the biggest issues Trump will face is a hostile Congress – on the part of both Democrats AND Republicans, an issue I fear Bernie would also face if he were to win the Presidential nomination – but only on the issues that Trump and normal Republican Party representative disagree with. But there are areas where Republicans in Congress won't be so quick to disagree...like defunding Planned Parenthood, repealing Obamacare, cutting social security, banning abortion, etc. These are policies that would be adopted regardless of which Republican waltzed into the Oval office.

On the other hand, there is Hilary. Now, she's a...bit of a flip-flop policymaker that basically auctions her beliefs to the highest bidder, but I do believe she has some actual backbone on some issues, and so while her Presidency isn't an ideal situation, it's better than a Republican Presidency and Congress.

So while I disagree with your conclusions, Epsilon, I agree with much of your analysis :P
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Gad:

I can't get with a man (...) who seems to be a fan of reagonomics that have only damaged us this far - Economics is a whole different can of worms for a different thread :)

"Principle" is good to have, but pure principle doesn't drive a country, policy-making does. If you can't have a policy to define how you want to achieve your principle, then that bothers me. - I wholeheartedly agree. I believe Trump will back his principles with actions, or policy, that's the whole Realpolitik bit. This is, of course, more a question of taste. If you don't like Trump's principles OR the policies those principles drive him towards, then you're not going to like Trump.

I will NOT ever call Trump my Commander-in-chief or have the slightest confidence in him as a civilian. - This is another matter of taste, but I will point out that it's still a continuation of the theme that Trump as president will be a warmongering hot head, which I thoroughly disagree with. War is not top of anyone's policy agenda. You could argue, sure, it never is, that Trump will blunder his way into war. But that's predicated on Trump being a blunderer, i think he's far more savvy than people give him credit for.

CGJ:

like defunding Planned Parenthood, repealing Obamacare, cutting social security, banning abortion, etc. These are policies that would be adopted regardless of which Republican waltzed into the Oval office. - I gotta disagree with you there. I will stipulate, this is hopefulness on my part. Those are the positions of the Establishment, and i Think (hope) Trump is savvy enough to see that it would be moronic to do those things. for repealing obamacare and cutting social security, you can't just DO those things, you have to REPLACE it with something. That's symptomatic of the republican party in general, they lost the Obamacare debate because they said NO instead of bringing a new, different, better proposal to the table. It was a moronic move on their part. As for Abortion and related things, i think there would be enough debate on that to stop those from happening. But that's my personal belief, Abortion is complicated and many politicians want to Legislate their morality, which i'm vehemently opposed to.

One of the biggest issues Trump will face is a hostile Congress - I always support a congress hostile to the executive. Rubber stamp congresses are the most dangerous thing for democracies. Debate allows--hopefully--the best ideas to win. Unless debate is suppressed, in Harry Reid style.


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- eh, economics is very much on par with the discussion imo *recites Bernie Sanders propaganda* "1/10th of something something own something one percent i need a new comb hey look a birdie socialism!"

- I think it's a combination of me generally not agreeing with many of Trump's principles. Though I do agree with you on one of your earlier points that he isn't conservative or any of the sort. I think he merely adopted the dark, Ted Cruz was born in it. xD

- I mean, I can wholly understand your point, but to me it's extremely dangerous to have a guy that talks about throwing nukes around so casually like it's a game of Defcon(great game btw). But if Trump is only presenting himself as a hot-head, I have no choice but to assume him that way, as that is a factual conclusion I can draw(based off reasonable observation from his current actions). I don't feel safe in what my eyes, is an assumption that he wouldn't do some of things he yells about.

Now, I agree generally that a Trump presidency wouldn't be that dramatic. I mean, it would be entertaining at most(for me at least). The government is a complex beast with many cogs and wheels running at the same time, one President doesn't simply dictate it, or destroy it. It annoys me that the vast majority of people believe the president to be a defining figure when Congress is just as important to participate in. However, I still think Trump is dangerous and as an American, would be embarrassed to call him the President.

But your points are well noted and sound. Though we have disagreement's.
Edited by Gadshack, 5th May 2016 - 03:18 PM.
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Trump hasn't made many friends here by declaring our capital 'a hell hole', before and after terrorists decided to take this to the test. But then again, we are used to politicians making the wildest claims when they're campaigning, while in practice their style is in no way different than those people before them. We've had this anti-establisment movement here with the N-VA (a nationalist, liberal party, both those words are considered swear words hear) and the Antwerp mayor Bart Dewever (jokingly often called Ward de Bever, Ward the beaver). His party has gained a lot of power, but many of the things they've promised have disappeared overnight from their agenda. Ofcourse, we are used to have coalitions of parties ruling us, so they have to compromise. The President of the USA holds much more power and influence. Obama had to rule with an opposing congress, and although they made it very hard, he still managed to rule the country.
So basically, this can go all ways: a storm in a teacup or the start of the apocalyps.
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It was mentioned earlier that Trump only knows how to run a business, and I have to dispute that because " Donald Trump has filed for corporate bankruptcy four times, in 1991, 1992, 2004 and 2009."

Okay and Epilson you say that Trump winning is not the end of the world, but thats from a privilege non-minority point of view. As a muslim how can I even remotely feel safe in a country run by an extremely islamophobic man as seen by the following:

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.." - Dec. 7, 2015

"tens of thousands of people" were entering America with "cell phones with Isis flags on them...I don't think so." (the telegraph.co.uk)

Watch the video

The fact that the likely Republican nominee for president openly is allowed to spread this message of hate in terrifying. I DONT CARE IF THIS IS OFFENDS YOU, the are all sorts of connections that can be made between things Trump has said/promised about Muslims (along with other groups) that is a repetition of Nazi Germany. The fact that what would eventually lead to the genocide of the Jewish people looks like America today is wrong. The stuff above I was able to find with a quick 5 minute google search, imagine if I actually tried to dig deep.

Calming minorities fear and ensuring their safety > making sure bigots and racists don't feeling bad
Edited by Helgara, 5th May 2016 - 06:18 PM.
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Okay and Epilson you say that Trump winning is not the end of the world, but thats from a privilege non-minority point of view. As a muslim how can I even remotely feel safe in a country run by an extremely islamophobic man as seen by the following:

THIS

I stated personal reasons, but didn't want to get into it as I've gotten into heated racial discussions. However, as a Chicano in the United States who feels very strongly about the past United States affairs in Latin America in general, I am offended by his many remarks on Mexico and being part black, I'm generally not fond of much of the conservative outlook of racial issues I've heard, from some. So, I very much feel the same in that regard as Helgara. While I do believe it is more of a strife to appease to larger uneducated masses, do we really know if he believes this? No. Am I going to take a chance? Nope. If he's a brilliant strategist and just using this rhetoric, then he's no different from Clinton anyway.

In short, I think Donald Trump is a privileged bigot with no grasp of the world. So yeah, what Hel said.
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I can't see it working out worse than the crap options we're given every four years, and it seems to work well for Canada. ^^
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Good game Madame B...good game...

I am a muslim as well Helgara and yes, Trump should not be a President or else he will just kick out all the muslims from the US of A. Whatever the reason is, Islam is not ISIS and ISIS is never the same with what Islam teaches me. This shows me that Trump is not a well educated person regarding religion but still talk about it like a genius. Sorry but he is a pure fool.

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interesting and quite frankly, correct video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPkufc_4GbQ
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#Darxit
Anyone who has actually read the Koran would know that ISIS have broken pretty much all of Islam's war rules.
http://web.archive.org/web/20161002195809/http://independentorder.net/single/?p=8432594&t=11644836
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Anyone who has actually read the Koran would know that ISIS have broken pretty much all of Islam's war rules.
And you've read the whole Quran? I mean, not trying to insult you but that's a slippery statement.
Edited by Gadshack, 7th May 2016 - 06:27 PM.
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#Darxit
There are passages in the Koran that specifically prohibit the things ISIS is doing, I could look specifics up if desired
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Not necessary, have a good understanding, this isn't a thread to discuss ISIS anyway. Plus my opinion about it is unpopular anyway so I'd rather not go down that road.
Edited by Gadshack, 7th May 2016 - 09:32 PM.
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I can't see it working out worse than the crap options we're given every four years, and it seems to work well for Canada. ^^
So 240 years after you boot us out, you want to come back? Cue the Last Night of the Proms for patriotism (hey we can all dream right?)

And the Queen is arguably the most respected world leader/Head of State there is so odds are she'd kick either candidate for America 2016 whether Trump or Hillary quite firmly in the integrity stakes.
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I support it, seriously.

I wanna be a brit ;-;
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#Darxit
Um...I like Doctor Who.
Does that count?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7O26NYXGYM

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Some fun for everyone TrumpDonald
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That was actually extremely entertaining, thank you
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No problem. I know when I am needed :P
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