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Sorting out the Religions
Topic Started: 24th March 2016 - 11:53 PM (474 Views)
Luvonia
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+ Burn the Heretic. Kill the Mutant. Purge the Unclean. +
One thing that has always bugged me for a while is how does the lore of real life religions fit into the world of Mundus. I know this doesn't affect people who's nations have made their own, but what about the real ones like Christianity, Islam, etc. Like for example where was Jesus in Mundus? Or where Buddha was when he founded the ideals of Buddhism? It just came to me, and I hope we could integrate these into our lore.
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DaveIronside
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Someone tried this earlier, I think it was GJ.

We came to the conclusion that while the real life religions exist on Mundus we wouldn't allow anyone to claim to be the "Holy Land" as such. The reasoning behind it was that for example if Jesus was from a nation which then went inactive and was taken off the map then we'd have lost that. Also it would be impossible to deciede who gets to be "Jerusalem" for example. A few people have created off shoots of real world religions, or by default of having been the only ones using it (E.g. Odinism and UNP/Nya Aland) have kind of become it. Personally not being religious myself and having created my own RP Religion (All Praise Helus) its not an issue I have, however I understand it could be sensitive to others.
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Sparta
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#Darxit
all bow to the Destroyer
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Tytor
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It's been left intentionally vague, in order to avoid petty squabbles. Plus what Dave said.

Heck, we don't even technically have a pope, though we do have Catholics (and the occasional antipope). If we try to get too deeply entrenched, then the whole religious system will collapse the instant someone drops off the map. And I doubt many people who've created their own religious backstories would appreciate being forced to acknowledge another person's country as the source of the religion as a whole.
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Gadshack
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Honestly it's not a huge deal if someone drops off the map.

Do we roleplay worldwide economic destabilization each time a nation drops off the map?

Do we roleplay the mountains of refugees and issues stemming from a suddenly collapsed nation?(if not organized)

No, most of the time we simply pretend like that nation never existed and if it did, we never *realistically* or at least reasonably apply their loss for anything else, so I don't see why it would be any different for religion. Because according to the track record of nations who've collapsed and been taken off the map, the entire world should have collapsed 20x over.
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Achkaerin
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The issue was always to do with firstly a nation collapsing but also what may happen a couple of months later.

For example let's just say that for the sake of argument we decide that Mercia is where Christianity originates from, now let's say that for some reason Dave has to leave, Mercia would come off the map, but at that point the territory where Mercia was would still be considered the 'Christian home region' however if we then get a new nation taking those spots with their own religion the continuity is lost.

Now the last time we had this discussion this was the agreed view, however we have expanded the map since then we now have close to an additional 200 territories I think we could spare some to establish an NPC Holy Land nation couldn't we? It'd take me all of a day to do as well. We also kill a couple of other birds with that stone as well.

All I'm saying is if we're going to explore this concept then the best way to avoid the 'Jerusalem' argument is to establish an NPC nation and put it in that nation.
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Luvonia
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+ Burn the Heretic. Kill the Mutant. Purge the Unclean. +
I think Ach has got the right idea. But if you're gonna go ahead with it one thing I suggest you do is not to let have it take up an actual province. It should be like what you did with Aquitaine, just cutting out a chunk of province to use it as the borders for the country. I would called it 'Venisulam'. Also, would you agree with an NPC Vatican-ish nation?
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Achkaerin
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I would rather have it take up provinces on the map for the simple reason that we're not then tying its existence to an already existing nation. Let's be clear Marseilles and Aquitaine are tied together by something established in Materna's Wrath.

If we did this I'd rather it was an independent nation- this would mean it could be a permanent fixture on the map.

I'd also probably throw the Mundus equivalent of the Vatican into that nation.
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KaiserAdolf
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Is this vatican-like city really needed? If it will give advantages for Mundus RP, then it is fine I think.

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Tytor
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I don't think it should be done. The status quo is fine, thanks.

Quite seriously, though. I, for one, would kind of resent having to tie my country's religious history to another one that someone else controls, even if that someone else is the RP council. The RP in general doesn't gain a thing from adding a "holy land". Even if it did, it wouldn't gain enough to be worth the trouble of having to reset the religious setup. I think its best to leave the origins of real-world religions deliberately vague, no matter how many new territories the map has. To do otherwise, especially in the unilateral manner you're suggesting, risks resentment and loss of interest in RP by those who're affected.
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Gadshack
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It's not that complicated honestly...I have no idea why everyone has some instinct to complicate everything in the RP....

It's as simple as: If you don't like it, then simply do not participate in that particular RP, you can't bar people from doing something.

Also, I've had the world self-proclaimed leader of Buddhism for the longest and no one has said or opposed the idea...so bias much?
Edited by Gadshack, 25th March 2016 - 08:16 PM.
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Sparta
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#Darxit
It's sort like MT...you get away with a lot of stuff ;)
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Tytor
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Gadshack
25th March 2016 - 07:53 PM
It's not that complicated honestly...I have no idea why everyone has some instinct to complicate everything in the RP....

It's as simple as: If you don't like it, then simply do not participate in that particular RP, you can't bar people from doing something.

Also, I've had the world self-proclaimed leader of Buddhism for the longest and no one has said or opposed the idea...so bias much?
Well, actually, I was unaware of that. The point lies more with the term "self-proclaimed". So long as it's clear that your religious leader is leader only of the members of that real-life religion who reside within your own nation (plus any other nations whose creators might voluntarily link themselves to you), then it's fine. If you were to try and claim to be the undisputed leader of all members of that real-life religion, no matter what, or if you were to claim to be the place where that real-life religion was founded, then I have a problem with it, as it infringes on the rights of others to use that real-life religion without being forced to link themselves to you.

And by the way, it is complicated enough by default. Religion is one of those things that can't be solved with a simple hand-wave; it affects too many people for that to work.
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Gadshack
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Tytor
25th March 2016 - 09:35 PM
Gadshack
25th March 2016 - 07:53 PM
It's not that complicated honestly...I have no idea why everyone has some instinct to complicate everything in the RP....

It's as simple as: If you don't like it, then simply do not participate in that particular RP, you can't bar people from doing something.

Also, I've had the world self-proclaimed leader of Buddhism for the longest and no one has said or opposed the idea...so bias much?
Well, actually, I was unaware of that. The point lies more with the term "self-proclaimed". So long as it's clear that your religious leader is leader only of the members of that real-life religion who reside within your own nation (plus any other nations whose creators might voluntarily link themselves to you), then it's fine. If you were to try and claim to be the undisputed leader of all members of that real-life religion, no matter what, or if you were to claim to be the place where that real-life religion was founded, then I have a problem with it, as it infringes on the rights of others to use that real-life religion without being forced to link themselves to you.

And by the way, it is complicated enough by default. Religion is one of those things that can't be solved with a simple hand-wave; it affects too many people for that to work.
Eh, I understand, I mean I don't see the point in complicating it as this is a fictional world in the first place, so I feel rl based religion or not, there is free reign to sort of explore and do whatever with them.
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Astetoth
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This is why I created my own religion, so much simpler.

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Its always so much easier to simply copy 99% of a religion and change a few names here and there. Buddhism in the USR? I don't think so, but we do have a Kyrashi minority ect ect
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Beatrice
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And here I thought the USR's solution to sorting religions out would be "disappearances". :P
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Genstatum
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I can see both sides of the argument, but I would not be opposed to the creation of a "Holy Region" as I think it could inspire some interesting RP. I think the control of the region by the RP Council would have to be very subtle if we use real life religions.

However, I think it could be a fun event to create some new religions as a community for Mundus (perhaps based loosely on real life ones) and have some people adopt them if it doesn't disrupt their RP. We could then have the RP Holy Land be for entirely Mundus religions and help us flesh out the world and unique history of Mundus.
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Sparta
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What if we replaced all our RL religions with RP ones, such as replacing Christianity's roots with GJ's version of Israel?
Edited by Sparta, 29th March 2016 - 01:58 AM.
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Gadshack
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I don't have an issue with that^
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