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| Security Council Debate: Vienra Situation | ||||
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| Topic Started: 4th July 2016 - 09:47 PM (783 Views) | ||||
| Achkaerin | 4th July 2016 - 09:47 PM Post #1 | |||
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SECURITY COUNCIL SUBMISSION FORM Formal Name of Submitting Nation(s): Ionia Confederacy & Dominion of Veduro Nations involved: Ionia Confederacy and the Nova Ardian Imperium Title of Submission: Vienra Situation Draft Resolution:
Any other details: Was submitted as a GA submission but this is clearly a Security Council matter. Also I've cobbled the two relevant resolutions together. Also not sure if Ionia's a member so if Hel wants he can have a diplomat present, as can the Imperium. |
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| DaveIronside | 9th July 2016 - 01:05 PM Post #2 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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I assumed we'd have someone from their kick.this off | |||
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| Helgara | 10th July 2016 - 12:32 PM Post #3 | |||
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Before anyone else could speak, the Nova Ardian diplomat stood, getting the attention of the room. "This resolution is a travesty. It is another attempt by the Ionians to keep what is rightfully Ardian. Already a number of nations have fallen for the lies of Premier Vaju, issuing warnings against Ardia. This is unfair. Vienra is rightfully ours, we built the city, we ruled it for hundreds of years. We reached out to the Confederacy to resolve this issue, and they refused to even sit down for negotiations. In the resolution is says, 'Hoping for decisive action to return the land to it's rightful owner' its rightful owner is the latin people. I ask the security council to vote no, return the city to its historical owners." |
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Roleplayer Khala Factbook (WIP) | ||||
| DaveIronside | 11th July 2016 - 07:43 PM Post #4 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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Sir Jacob Longe stood to speak, "I am yet to see any evidence that the people of that area would support your statement sir." he said matter of factly. "Regardless the facts as far as I know them are that your forces have marched almost unopposed into the city, declared it now belongs to you. Should we be provided with clear and significant evidence that the people of this city wish to belong to your nation then you'd find East Moreland in support of you annexing the city. We have after all supported several other self-determination causes, but each of these have been supported with a referendum organised and maintained by a neutral faction. I would expect that until that time your nation would withdraw." | |||
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| Achkaerin | 14th July 2016 - 09:10 PM Post #5 | |||
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OOC- Given that we're still at the start of this debate are people content that we move this to be accordance with Article 22.5 situation as noted by Hobbes and open this up to all the membership? | |||
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| Beatrice | 14th July 2016 - 09:32 PM Post #6 | |||
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OOC: No objections here. |
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| Achkaerin | 15th July 2016 - 05:53 PM Post #7 | |||
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OOC- This is now a GA debate so everyone may contribute. Serenity Azurewind, CTO Secretary General Serenity, the Security Council representatives and the representatives from Nova Ardia and Ionia walked the length of the Palace of Nations from the Security Council chambers to the General Assembly chamber, as they approached Serenity's aide for the moment Aliona appeared. "Everyone's been issued with minutes of what's already been said in Security Council session and a copy of the resolution." Aliona said "Good." Serenity said A few seconds later they were in the General Assembly chamber and the delegates were taking their seats "Ladies and Gentlemen with Article 22.5 in effect it falls to the General Assembly to assume the responsibility's of the Security Council. Before you now you have a resolution concerning the Nova Ardian invasion of Ionian territory that has culminated in the capture or annexation of the city of Vienra. In order to discuss this correctly the Nova Ardian government has been granted representation for the duration of the debate[1]. I am further in the cause of sensible and constructive debate granting special dispensation to the CTO members to bring their Security Council representatives into this and other such debates for the period of time that Article 22.5 is in effect." [1] I note that Ionia is actually a CTO member. |
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| Helgara | 20th July 2016 - 02:56 PM Post #8 | |||
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OOC: Sorry, completely missed this post "By a neutral faction? And what faction would that be? How many nations in Mundus can honestly claim to harbor no ill will towards the old Ardian Empire? And besides, the situation in Vienra has gone well past that of a referendum. Vienran terrorists have taken the lives of a number of our peaceful occupation forces, and they are wrecking chaos further in the Republic. The terrorists are trying to sponsor a revolution to topple our current and legitimate regime. This is no longer a just matter of reuniting the latin people, or returning what is rightfully ours. This is a matter of national security. Perhaps once the terrors are defeated, and Nova Ardia is safe again, we can submit to a referendum, but until then, our government has a duty to protect its people." |
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Roleplayer Khala Factbook (WIP) | ||||
| DaveIronside | 9th August 2016 - 10:46 AM Post #9 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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Sorry this died but I would have expected other to contribute to it otherwise we just end up with a two sided going in circles arguement. | |||
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| Achkaerin | 9th August 2016 - 03:57 PM Post #10 | |||
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OOC- I think to be fair that the issue may be that most of this thread pre-dates 'Peace in our Time' Edit: I'm waiting on something from Helgara (an answer to a question) once I've got that this will move forwards. Edited by Achkaerin, 9th August 2016 - 04:36 PM.
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| Achkaerin | 11th August 2016 - 10:39 PM Post #11 | |||
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![]() Lisa Saunders, General Assembly Delegate Lisa stood up and took a deep breath she had to choose her words very carefully, there was a lot of anger in the room, the Ardian Empire always invoked that. "In 1918 the guns of war fell silent as Mundus's bloodiest war came to an end. Many of the nations represented here saw their brave men and women make the ultimate sacrifice to bring down the two greatest Empire's that Mundus has known- the Rus Empire and the Ardian Empire. When the Sunset Concordat[1] was signed it marked the beginning of a new era for Mundus, the Concordat guaranteed the territory of new nations as provinces seceded from the one time Empire's. The treaty also harshly punished both Empire's to the point where one fell into revolution and the other became a shell of its former self. Now whatever we think of the punishment is irrelevant, the Concordat drew the borders of Ionia and it put Vienra within them, this is a fact that has gone without any form of challenge for 98 years. So is it the will of the people or is it the will of an aggressive Nova Ardian Republic? I now urge this assembly to remember the principles on which this organisation is founded, we talk of peace, mercy, justice etc. Now let's be clear we are not a military organisation we are a diplomatic forum, we strive to solve problems by talking, with our fists open to shake hands, we only close that fist when talking proves fruitless- as was the case in Marseilles. It is clear that the situation in Vienra can be solved by talking provided both sides can be brought to the negotiation table and given a fair chance to talk, but first just as 98 years ago the guns must stop firing and that is our first priority whilst remaining true to the principles of this organisation. So I present the following:
Lisa took a sip of water before continuing "I'll be crystal clear, this is the action that Achkaerin intends to take and while support of our allies would be appreciated we are not ignorant of recent history so we are more than prepared to do this alone and we will. Right now the one question for this organisation is simple are you prepared to get off your backsides for once and help or will you continued to wallow in self interest while Achkaerin takes the proposal to the Cross Mundus Agency who won't act like cowards. The ball is very much in your court but rest assured in very much the same way as East Moreland did in regards to the Mercian situation, we will not stand by and do nothing while this organisation agonizes over it. So for once I implore the representatives to live up to their responsibilities and support this proposal." [1] improv name for our Versailles (Couldn't think of anything else) |
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| DaveIronside | 11th August 2016 - 10:52 PM Post #12 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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"I think you will recall it was East Moreland who initially spoke on this matter in the Security Council and while not identical this new proposition shares much of what we suggested. We would call on this being a two stage process, the first being what has once again been presented before us, and the second a measure to put this matter to bed, and that being a referendum amongst the people of the disputed territory once fighting has been stopped." | |||
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| Achkaerin | 11th August 2016 - 11:16 PM Post #13 | |||
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"I think the point being made Sir Jacob is that historically we've seen the same four nations bearing the brunt of CTO interventions specifically Achkaerin, Dijel, East Moreland and South Hills." Serenity said "Ms Saunders is I'm sure you'll agree perfectly within her rights to have a go at the other nations represented here who have over Marseilles and Uppsala talked the talk but not backed that up when push came to shove. I presume you would wish provision for a referendum facilitated by the CTO to be included as a sixth point in this resolution?" |
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| CGJ | 11th August 2016 - 11:29 PM Post #14 | |||
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
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Thomas Moore listened to the debates. "The Kingdom of Dartfordia fully supports the resolutions written. We are currently engaged in military actions in Vienra, and from what we have discovered on the ground – any proposal for a referendum is, at least at the moment, impossible. We believe thousands, if not tens of thousands, of innocent people have been killed, arrested or fled Vienra, so any referendum would automatically be skewed towards Nova Ardians." | |||
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| Beatrice | 12th August 2016 - 05:37 AM Post #15 | |||
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"The First Empire supports the Resolution and is presently undertaking measures to dispatch forces to support Commonwealth operations," Yuriko said, determining it would be best to ignore the bait. | |||
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| DaveIronside | 12th August 2016 - 05:21 PM Post #16 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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"Our original recommendation was that a CTO peacekeeping force be placed into the region, they would secure the area and bring back law and order while investigating the situation, only once that investigation was completed would a referendum be organised. No one is suggesting a referendum taking place any time in the next few months, we're talking perhaps several years down the road. We saw how with Marseille and the Ardean genocide what happens when there is no long term plan for what to do when fighting stops, at least no long term plan that takes a multi-national approach, this is a lesson we should learn and that is why we should include an article on a referendum on this debate, otherwise what strategy do we have for resolving this matter in the long term?" | |||
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| Achkaerin | 12th August 2016 - 06:15 PM Post #17 | |||
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"Then I believe we have the following as our resolution." Lisa said
"I believe this covers all our bases so unless anyone has anything to add I'd like to move that this be taken to vote." |
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| DaveIronside | 12th August 2016 - 06:50 PM Post #18 | |||
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
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"Well" Jacob added, "I'd like to see which nations are about to step in and offer the necessary peacekeeping forces and who shall command them. So for example I believe we should know who we are voting to co-ordinate this international force mentioned in Article 5" | |||
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| Beatrice | 12th August 2016 - 07:58 PM Post #19 | |||
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"The First Empire shall be dispatching elements of the Imperial Rokkenjiman Navy and Air Force, along with an initial deployment of 10,000 ground forces to assist with peacekeeping operations once the Commonwealth has established precisely how they will be making their entrance." | |||
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| Achkaerin | 12th August 2016 - 08:42 PM Post #20 | |||
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Lisa bit back the retort she would have loved to have given- no one was going to believe that Rokkenjiman statement until they saw those troops with the whites of their eyes- given recent history seeing would in this case have to be believing. "Achkaerin will contribute initially up to 15,000 troops though we would reserve the right to scale that number down dependent on who else contributes at this point. We will also mobilize air and naval assets out of Gowu and if required Antares. We also propose given his experience of similar circumstances and the tactics involved that General Kakashi Fuji be placed in command of the operation." |
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| hobbes | 12th August 2016 - 09:55 PM Post #21 | |||
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Memer-in-Chief
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OOC on phone still so can we postpone anything 24hr here so I can type a proper reply | |||
important message![]() <@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them <@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ![]() Sparta: (hobbes is) the god the Independent Order deserves, but not the one anyone cares about right now. | ||||
| Achkaerin | 14th August 2016 - 07:45 AM Post #22 | |||
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OOC- Hobbes whatever you're going to post can you do so quickly please? | |||
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| hobbes | 14th August 2016 - 07:42 PM Post #23 | |||
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Memer-in-Chief
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ooc - sorry to drop this bomb now but I was away when y'all decided to play world police South Hills has several issues with this resolution, namely the nature of 'peacekeeping' and the Organization's stance on this issue,
There is little base in terms of legality on Ionia's claim on Vienra aside from the (name of ww1 peace treaty here)[1], which was heavily stacked against Nova Ardia by several powers with....varying goals. Many of these powers who forced the treaty on Nova Ardia are now at this conference seeking to enforce it. South Hills refused to ratify the treaty on the basis of its imperialist goals.
Just the language of this clause is appalling; Does this council care purely for the government running the land and not the people living the land?
Sanctioning what in particular, if we may enquire?
This clause is the most disturbing. This resolution spends - count them - 5 of its 10 clauses somehow denouncing the Nova Ardian government, and it then expects to inject itself into land currently occupied by Nova Ardia with no form of resistance or fighting. Should said fighting occur, which mind you, in the Nova Ardian's eyes they just regained a city they unfairly lost a hundred years ago, so it most definitively will given this resolution, I have little doubt that a "Peacekeeping" force will do little but multiply the loss of life and property substantially. South Hills will refuse to contribute any forces to this mission under its current language and objectives. [1] I think there's a name for our Versailles treaty but I dunno what it is |
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important message![]() <@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them <@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ![]() Sparta: (hobbes is) the god the Independent Order deserves, but not the one anyone cares about right now. | ||||
| Achkaerin | 14th August 2016 - 08:21 PM Post #24 | |||
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"Firstly." Lisa said "The language may need looking at but the points are accurate. Whatever nations think of the said treaty is not relevant it is enforceable, and I remind the South Hills representative that the long term goal of the resolution is to settle the matter by means of a referendum, however such a thing cannot take place until the fighting stops and that is the objective of establishing a DMZ with clear rules of engagement- we ensure the continuity of Ionia's existence and protect the integrity of the Republic. It is in the best interests of both nations to cooperate with this. We can lose the decisive action point from the preamble and as for sanctions we may need to specify as you've said, otherwise that to needs to be dropped." |
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| hobbes | 14th August 2016 - 09:05 PM Post #25 | |||
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Memer-in-Chief
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"I don't believe you've addressed my primary concern, Ambassador, but how exactly would you plan on securing the city in the first place? Does the CTO plan on engaging in armed conflict with Nova Ardians in a majority nova ardian city if they refuse to leave?" |
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important message![]() <@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them <@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ![]() Sparta: (hobbes is) the god the Independent Order deserves, but not the one anyone cares about right now. | ||||
| Achkaerin | 15th August 2016 - 01:27 PM Post #26 | |||
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"The question" Lisa said looking around the room "Is are we prepared to let what are war crimes committed by Nova Ardian forces go unanswered? We've seen too much of this lately. Majority Nova Ardian city is irrelevant that city is within the sovereign borders of Ionia which itself is a CTO member nation- the actions of Nova Ardia amount to nothing short of a military invasion or to put it another way an act of war. If this situation goes unchecked as we have proposed in the resolution then what you will have fundamentally is an escalation to the point where it becomes even harder to resolve, right now it is relatively straight forward to get troops on the ground, if we let Nova Ardia's claim on Vienra slide then how long before they do the same with the rest of Ionia? We need to take action- we can establish the DMZ, we have the soldiers trained in how to act in situations like the one in Vienra and there are plenty who are experienced in them as well, one only needs look at the troops that served in Marseilles post CTOMM, in Uppsala- there are other examples but let's dispel the seeming myth being perpetuated here- no one is suggesting funneling tens of thousands of troops into Vienra, we're talking about a reasonable presence to maintain law and order. The greater number is needed to make sure that Nova Ardia's military force respects Ionia's sovereign borders. Do we want to have to get into a fight with Nova Ardia? No, naturally various messages would be sent to Nova Ardia, requesting they pull their forces back so that we can ensure the safe establishment of the proposed DMZ to lessen tensions. If they refuse do we utilize military force? Given that the Nova Ardian's are apparently committing war crimes in Vienra I think we would do all that we can to protect the Ionian citizens being targeted And finally given the time critical factor I move the amended form following the South Hill's delegates points to vote." Edited by Achkaerin, 15th August 2016 - 01:30 PM.
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| Achkaerin | 16th August 2016 - 02:42 PM Post #27 | |||
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OOC- Ok I'm going to say that unless has anything to add that this goes to vote tomorrow (in the amended form factoring in the SH points) also to accommodate the point Dave made unless anyone else proposes different it will have to include a provision for the nominated General to be put in charge of the operation. | |||
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| hobbes | 16th August 2016 - 04:02 PM Post #28 | |||
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Memer-in-Chief
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"We'd also like to inquire under what similar circumstances said General Kakashi Fuji has operated." | |||
important message![]() <@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them <@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ![]() Sparta: (hobbes is) the god the Independent Order deserves, but not the one anyone cares about right now. | ||||
| Achkaerin | 16th August 2016 - 04:48 PM Post #29 | |||
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"He's commanded troops in both Toshindai civil wars firstly in the 1980's when leading the liberation of Gowu- this took many months so we can clearly see he has extensive experience leading troops in urban warfare so we would suggest this gives him more than enough capability secure Vienra should that become necessary rather than the preferred policing presence. Ultimately the victory over Su Mai Nekhaga at Gowu Pass was under his leadership and considering the way that battle unfolded tactically we would say he's capable for the possible developments that establishing such a DMZ would involve. In the more recent Toshindai civil war[1] he established an Achkaerinese perimeter protecting what is now Snow Flower Hold, this perimeter allowed for the safe passage of displaced people out of the conflict zone- thus saving lives in effect the perimeter acted similar to a DMZ both in presence and purpose. I would suggest that gives General Fuji enough experience of the implied circumstances as they stand and probable developments of the situation. His command experience is seen in a very distinguished career and overall he has the leadership qualities combined with the situational experience to do the job we're suggesting be done." [1] Shogun Total War |
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| Achkaerin | 17th August 2016 - 05:08 PM Post #30 | |||
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OOC- for reference this is the said amended version
[1] equivalent of Versailles, possibly a placeholder, depends if we already have one |
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| Achkaerin | 18th August 2016 - 09:54 PM Post #31 | |||
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OOC- ok since this is time sensitive I'm going to put it to vote. | |||
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^ 7:01 PM Jul 11
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May the force be with you.
















