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New Permanent Member for Security Council
Topic Started: 11th July 2016 - 11:08 PM (918 Views)
Achkaerin
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Following the resignation of Achkaerin from the Security Council we have a permanent seat available the following nations comprise the nominee's to fill that seat:

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The Federation of the Dijel
The Dominion of Veduro
The South Hills Council of Governments (Conditional)
The Republic of Lakhzovia
The First Empire of Rokkenjima


South Hills only goes on the ballot if the South Hills delegation can provide an assurance that South Hills military forces committed to CTO operations will respect the CTO chain of command.
Edited by Achkaerin, 12th July 2016 - 07:51 PM.
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hobbes
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South Hills withdrew its intention to withdraw from CTO command after Achkaerin resigned its Security Council Seat.
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Beatrice
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"The First Empire believes that the nomination process, indeed the selection process of a new Permanent Member, should have been sourced from the General Assembly instead of the Secretariat as the Secretary-General's judgement has been proven to be compromised on this matter before."
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Achkaerin
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With all due respect no it hasn't, the general assembly passed a resolution that gave the Secretary General the authority to appoint the permanent members. This she did and based on the criteria designated the three nations appointed were more than appropriate they were correct. The fact is this if the General Assembly determines the nominees then this will go on longer than necessary. The simple fact is that Rokkenjima is throwing a hissy fit because it doesn't make the list. Second with this being a permanent seat the Secretary General has the right to determine the process since no process presently exists for such a situation.
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SatanLord
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OOC: Not sure if I'm allowed to post it here but I will please tell me otherwise.

"The Dominion of Veduro strongly advises that the South Hills Council of Governments is appointed as the new permanent member however we do not withdraw our name from the pool of potential members".
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
OOC: Sorry Ach, but it's simply bullshit that Rokkenjima isn't even nominated for this role.
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Astetoth
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"Lakhzovia would like to register our protest at the leaving of Rokkenjima off of any ballot for this position.

We feel that the permanent members of the Security Council should be representative of, and command the respect of all the worlds regions. That we have a nomination list which contains only one Ardian nation, and at that one which Achkaerin admits is conditional due to their lack of military cooperation with the CTO, an infraction that raises concerns as to their suitability for a permanent seat on the organisations military council.

We feel the exclusion of Rokkenjima has more to do with the diplomatic dispute between them and Achkaerin than it does with what is best for this organisation. The fact is that Rokkenjima is a prominent Ardian nation with a diplomatic and military reach that extends across the entire globe. As a core global power it seems beyond irrational that they should not be considered.

Lakhzovia requests that the General Assembly be allowed to vote on whether to add Rokkenjima to the list of nominations. We believe that the position, which by its nature will have a long lasting impact on all CTO nations, should be filled by the nation best placed to fulfill the mandate it grants. We also feel that given the importance of the decision that the General Assembly should be free to nominate their preferred candidate. A vote of the General Assembly will put the issue to rest once and for all, the organisation can then begin to move beyond this impasse."
Edited by Astetoth, 12th July 2016 - 05:42 PM.

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Achkaerin
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"Rokkenjima's exclusion has nothing to do with any political spat it has more to do with a certain matter everyone here should be aware of." Serenity said slowly "Or has everyone forgotten the resolution this assembly passed on the Andean Genocide? It would be completely untenable to have a nation presently accused at the highest level of a role in the Andean Genocide on the ballot paper. The very second that happens the precedent you set is dangerous, and while it would undoubtedly prove useful for some in the room the embarrassment for this organisation would be crippling.

Even discounting the Genocide Rokkenjima's commitment to this organisation is questionable especially in the matters the Security Council should be discussing they pledge in the region of 30,000 troops for deployment in Marseilles and yet not one Rokkenjiman boot touches Marseilles soil, not one Rokkenjiman fighter flew a mission, not one ship was in the fleet. They pledge aid to the UNP yet leave it to East Moreland, Achkaerin, Dijel and South Hills when push comes to shove.

And Mr Hohk let's consider for a moment that South Hill's capability to cooperate with the CTO militarily is not in question they have worked as part of both the CTOMM and CTOURT under that command."
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Achkaerin
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OOC- So just going to float the sentiment of a discussion that was floated on Discord, considering how many people contribute regularly to the CTO debates and such would it be better just to simple abolish the SC and roll it's mandate into the GA as per what happens under the treaty when the minimum number of nations criteria isn't met?
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hobbes
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"We ask that Mr Hohk reminds himself of the facts before blatantly slandering our involvement in this organization,

South Hills contributed the most troops to Mairseilles.

South Hills contributed a sizeable force to CTOURT

South Hills contributed solely under CTO mandate forcing to bring a peaceful resolution to the Nya Aland whaling crisis, a incident in which Rokkenjima itself was a belligerent in.


I will not contest nor endorse the inclusion of Rokkenjima but I will not allow our contributions to this body to be slandered."
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DaveIronside
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Jacob Longe stood up and slowly clapped. "Well done, I must congratulate you once more, here we are debating the constant school yard bickering between Rokkenjima and Achkaerin rather than assembling an actual Security Council." He sighed, "Need a remind you that while various nations look to stroke their ego and prove that they are right and their rival wrong there are several situations around the world requiring attention, be it the genocide in Mercia, the piracy in the Illumic, a war in Vaimeria or even perhaps the issue of the Ionians, but of course these pale into insignificance between the petty arguements between Achkaerin and Rokkenjima. Now this is the only statement I will make on this matter, should Rokkenjima be on the ballot, yes, the reason being whether they are accused of being indirectly or directly linked with the Andean Genocide they are yet to be proven of anything, I believe we live in a society where a person faces punishment only once found guilty. Should a tribunal, and by that I mean a fair and impartial one, actually find Rokkenjima to have any involvement in the genocide in any way I would expect them to resign their seat, should they not East Moreland will push for their removal. In the meantime this matter needs to be settled now and not beaten around the bush. Rokkenjima is in our view living on its past diplomatic glories, it has contributed nothing physical to any CTO intervention or operation and I would hope that would be enough to persuade people to not vote for them."
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Achkaerin
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"If only that were true." Cheryl Holmes said standing "I seem to recall making that exact same statement of 'innocent until proven guilty.' when this Assembly condemned Achkaerin. Now let me make this clear I agree with Sir Jacob's point, if we're going to pursue innocent until proven guilty then yes we put Rokkenjima on the ballot. I also agree that Rokkenjima's lack of contribution to this organisation has been abysmal and to elect them against a nation like South Hills that has done all mentioned would be a travesty. The Secretary General's reasons have merits from the point of view of her responsibilities to the organisation but the point stands so logically we should proceed with the vote Mr Hohk requested.

But I will also make this clear if Rokkenjima is to be given the due process of an impartial investigation then it is about time Achkaerin was given the same courtesy strike out the condemnation out in favor of an impartial investigation to determine whether it should be reinstated or not."
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Beatrice
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"I would remind Mr. Longe that Rokkenjima has stationed forces in regions, such as in the Kyne near Merica, and has awaited the word of East Moreland so that our forces may be properly integrated into presently ongoing operations. The challenges the Security Council faces are often times delicate, and to rush into any operation without prior steps being taken to ensure proper integration and placement would be irresponsible. Our hand has been offered in coordination and cooperation, and upon that being utilized by our partners we shall certainly see our assets put to work. The contributions Rokkenjima has made to international security and ensuring stability stand as a record of dedication to the principles of the Commonwealth, while Rokkenjiman initiatives have formed several of the treaties and norms which guide the international system to this day."

"Rokkenjima's positions have been explained previously, including our hesitance towards engaging in military actions, so I will not go over those again at this time. I will state, clearly, that Rokkenjima has stood as a ready and willing partner and is prepared to work with our partners in Merica, as well as other regions of Mundus, upon the acceptance of our forces and integrations into already existing command structures and operations. As Rokkenjima's record is being brought into question, with all due respect to my colleague from South Hills, their record of diplomatic silence and absence for great periods of time is something which should also be considered. Rokkenjima does not need to rest upon past glories to show that its dedication and contributions to this Organisation are substantial and warrant her place upon the Security Council."
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CGJ
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Franz Kaufmann (1886-1944)
"It is worth remembering that we are not talking about the past, and discussing Achkaerin's inclusion in a previous resolution is nothing but irrelevant," the Dartfordian delegate, who's name I've forgotten again, looked visibly agitated. "The current bickering between the Holy Empire, the Secretary-General and the First Empire must cease. This is nothing more than a geopolitical snub to ensure Rokkenjima cannot take Achkaerin's place – a position given to it by the Achkaerinese Secretary-General." The man took a sip of water. "However, do not take this as a note of our unconditional support for Rokkenjima. We are yet to take a position on who should take the third place, yet it is essential that we are at least given the choice to elect one of the world's most forefront great powers. It is little wonder opinion polls in Dartfordia are swinging against both CTO and the Cross-Straits Union, because all you two ever fucking do is fight like children. Now if you all please I do not wish this to remain the Commonwealth Treaty Nursery. Calm your tits and get on with it, the lot of ya."
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Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
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DaveIronside
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Bendix Landau (1880-1939)
"This again illustrates my point perfectly. Achkaerin was asked to produce evidence it had entered another nation legally and it couldn't, it had no mandate from the CTO for military action that endangered a minor. Now rather than discuss the matter at hand they drag up their own past which has nothing to do with this issue"

Jacob turned to the Rokkenjiman." Perhaps you'd like to ask Ui Cenneslaig or Achkaerin about the chain or command in Mercia. To put it bluntly there is none. We have three nations operating on the very edge of their logistical capability and Rokkenjima sits on its arse on the side lines expecting someone to roll out a welcome matt for them. If they want to claim to be a valued member of the international community it's time to be one. Instead of talking about being involved in many key international treaties. Well I'm sorry we've heard it before and just as many nations sat around this table can make similar claims but also claim to have taken direct action when required by the organisation they wish to represent. East Moreland supports Rokkenjima being added to the ballot as it's democratic the right thing to.do, however I do.not think I'll be instructed to give them my vote"
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Beatrice
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"Then I do believe the actions of our Nation and Government shall, in the coming hours and days, have to re-instill faith and show that Rokkenjima is the best possible candidate to fill the seat vacated by the Holy Empire."
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Achkaerin
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"I think the point you missed Sir Jacob is that I as Achkaerin's representative was forced by this Assembly to answer questions that I was under no obligation to answer, that renders the condemnation unsafe. The point however is that we now have such evidence and a resolution is pending discussion." Cheryl said

"Anyway we have a consensus or seem to on the inclusion of Rokkenjima on the ballot so if that's satisfactory may we now move this to a vote?" Serenity asked
Edited by Achkaerin, 12th July 2016 - 07:50 PM.
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DaveIronside
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Achkaerin
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The following is the final ballot


Quote:
 


The Federation of the Dijel
The Dominion of Veduro
The South Hills Council of Governments
The Republic of Lakhzovia
The First Empire of Rokkenjima


Simple enough 48 hours voting period majority rule.
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DaveIronside
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East Moreland casts its vote for South Hills
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Achkaerin
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Achkaerin agrees with East Moreland and votes for South Hills.
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CGJ
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(OOC: I presume if there is a tie all other members will be eliminated and votes reopened for the 2-3 remaining?)
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The Kingdom of Dartfordia (Factbook - Vignettes - News - Press Office)
Founding member of the Cross-Straits Treaty Alliance (CSTO), Commonwealth Treaty Organisation (CTO) and Congress of Albion (PAC).
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Beatrice
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Rokkenjima casts its vote for Rokkenjima.
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Achkaerin
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OOC- yes C.
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SatanLord
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The Dominion of Veduro casts it's vote for South Hills
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Lakhzovia votes for Rokkenjima

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Malson votes for Rokkenjima
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The Heavenly-Dictatorship of KaiserAdolf votea for South Hills.

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CGJ
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Dartfordia votes for Rokkenjima.
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hobbes
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Since we're voting for ourselves, South Hills votes for South Hills
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Tytor
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"The Kingdom of Tytor registers its discomfort at having to choose between two nations it regards as allies, and votes for Rokkenjima."

((Vote suspended until matters below are resolved.))
Edited by Tytor, 14th July 2016 - 06:36 PM.
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hobbes
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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:15 PM
"The Kingdom of Tytor registers its discomfort at having to choose between two nations it regards as allies, and votes for Rokkenjima."
(( Let the record show Beatrice PM'd Tytor briefly before his vote with information unbeknownst to us. ))
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Tytor
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:17 PM
(( Let the record show Beatrice PM'd Tytor briefly before his vote with information unbeknownst to us. ))
((There were two PMs, and the text of those was as follows:
PM #1 - Sent 11:44 AM MDT
 
Heya T,

Presently there's a tie with the Security Council election, and with the way the votes presently are even the tie-breaking vote would still result in a tie. :P

If you'd like to vote there's something like 10 minutes remaining to do so. ^^

Also, while I have your attention, what was the inspiration for Ubakasa? :o

Talk later!

B
PM #2 - Sent 11:47 AM MDT
 
Also apparently I can't count time today, add another hour to that remaining time. :P
B didn't influence my vote in any way. And yes, hobbes, I almost voted for you.))
Edited by Tytor, 14th July 2016 - 06:24 PM.
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

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Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
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hobbes
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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:23 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:17 PM
(( Let the record show Beatrice PM'd Tytor briefly before his vote with information unbeknownst to us. ))
((There were two PMs, and the text of those was as follows:
PM #1 - Sent 11:44 AM MDT
 
Heya T,

Presently there's a tie with the Security Council election, and with the way the votes presently are even the tie-breaking vote would still result in a tie. :P

If you'd like to vote there's something like 10 minutes remaining to do so. ^^

Also, while I have your attention, what was the inspiration for Ubakasa? :o

Talk later!

B
PM #2 - Sent 11:47 AM MDT
 
Also apparently I can't count time today, add another hour to that remaining time. :P
B didn't influence my vote in any way. And yes, hobbes, I almost voted for you.))
(( I understand, but the question boils down to if you would had voted had Beatrice not contacted you OOCly about the vote.

And given it was a hour or so away, one can assume that answer would be no, and the question then is if B contacting you OOcly constitutes Metagaming. ))
Edited by hobbes, 14th July 2016 - 06:28 PM.
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Tytor
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:27 PM
(( I understand, but the question boils down to if you would had voted had Beatrice not contacted you OOCly about the vote.

And given it was a hour or so away, one can assume that answer would be no, and the question then is if B contacting you OOcly constitutes Metagaming. ))
((I see your point. If it would make things better, I could vote for Dijel instead.))
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(( It also has been indicated to me that Malson has been contacted OOCly about the vote as well. ))
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
<@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ;)
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:30 PM
(( It also has been indicated to me that Malson has been contacted OOCly about the vote as well. ))
((Perhaps everybody who can vote should be contacted, to make for the highest possible turnout.))
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
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hobbes
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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:33 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:30 PM
(( It also has been indicated to me that Malson has been contacted OOCly about the vote as well. ))
((Perhaps everybody who can vote should be contacted, to make for the highest possible turnout.))
(( Had I been told I was allowed to campaign OOCly for votes (as Malson was directly asked to vote for B Oocly), I could practically gaurentee a different outcome. ))
Edited by hobbes, 14th July 2016 - 06:35 PM.
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
<@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ;)
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:35 PM
(( Had I been told I was allowed to campaign OOCly for votes (as Malson was directly asked to vote for B Oocly), I could practically gaurentee a different outcome. ))
((There's actually still another 74 minutes until time runs out by my calculations, so you could still do some campaigning. Oh, and I've withdrawn my vote for the time being.))
Edited by Tytor, 14th July 2016 - 06:41 PM.
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:39 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:35 PM
(( Had I been told I was allowed to campaign OOCly for votes (as Malson was directly asked to vote for B Oocly), I could practically gaurentee a different outcome. ))
((There's actually still another 74 minutes until time runs out by my calculations, so you could still do some campaigning.))
((When a majority of my supporters are US timezoned and at work? Yeah, seems legitimate. ))


edit: Actually i'm pretty confident there are 10 minutes left not 70.
Edited by hobbes, 14th July 2016 - 06:41 PM.
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:40 PM
((When a majority of my supporters are US timezoned and at work? Yeah, seems legitimate. ))


edit: Actually i'm pretty confident there are 10 minutes left not 70.
((Voting was opened at 1:52 PM, MDT, on July 12, with a 48-hour time limit. It is currently 12:44 PM, MDT, on July 14. That is 46 hours and 52 minutes later. 68 minutes remain.))
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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OOC- And this is precisely why I wanted to keep Rokkenjima off the ballot paper because the result is on the basis of relevant criteria perverse though the result itself rather predictable. Not that this is now remotely relevant- though we've just effectively ICly buried this organisation if Rokk wins. The only good thing is that we've got six weeks to straighten it out.
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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:44 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:40 PM
((When a majority of my supporters are US timezoned and at work? Yeah, seems legitimate. ))


edit: Actually i'm pretty confident there are 10 minutes left not 70.
((Voting was opened at 1:52 PM, MDT, on July 12, with a 48-hour time limit. It is currently 12:44 PM, MDT, on July 14. That is 46 hours and 52 minutes later. 68 minutes remain.))
((I asked Ach and yes, 10 (Now 5) minutes remain ))
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
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(( For me voting was opened at 2:52 PM EST on the 12th, it is now 2:47 EST on the 14th ))
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
<@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ;)
Sparta: (hobbes is) the god the Independent Order deserves, but not the one anyone cares about right now.
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Tytor
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:45 PM
((I asked Ach and yes, 10 (Now 5) minutes remain ))
((All right, fine. 47 hours it is. I've withdrawn my vote.))

((EDIT: Took the attached screenshot two minutes ago. Relevant bits circled in red.))
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Edited by Tytor, 14th July 2016 - 06:50 PM.
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:48 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:45 PM
((I asked Ach and yes, 10 (Now 5) minutes remain ))
((All right, fine. 47 hours it is. I've withdrawn my vote.))
((Did you have some timezone change recently because It's 48 for me. Weird. ))
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
<@CGJ> He creates enough burn victims in a day to effectively keep himself paid ;)
Sparta: (hobbes is) the god the Independent Order deserves, but not the one anyone cares about right now.
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Academicia
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Academicia votes for South Hills.
[rainbow]Academicia[/rainbow]
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hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:48 PM
Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:48 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:45 PM
((I asked Ach and yes, 10 (Now 5) minutes remain ))
((All right, fine. 47 hours it is. I've withdrawn my vote.))
((Did you have some timezone change recently because It's 48 for me. Weird. ))
((No idea why the discrepancy.))
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:51 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:48 PM
Tytor
14th July 2016 - 06:48 PM
hobbes
14th July 2016 - 06:45 PM
((I asked Ach and yes, 10 (Now 5) minutes remain ))
((All right, fine. 47 hours it is. I've withdrawn my vote.))
((Did you have some timezone change recently because It's 48 for me. Weird. ))
((No idea why the discrepancy.))
OOC -
Weird


And I won't hide that Academicia is a vote I riled Oocly at the last minute because apparently we're allowed to do that lol.
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<@CGJ> Hobbes wants to save lives, not end them
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((Eh. Doesn't matter much to me. As I see it, both main candidates are worthy of the post.))
His Majesty Michael the First, by the Grace of God, King of Tytor and her Colonies, and Lord Protector of Floodwater

His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

Factbook -- News -- Press Office

Former Governor-General of The Infinite Alliance
Former Ambassador to Albion and the Global Right Alliance
Former Vice Premier and Speaker of the Senate of the Independent Order
Professional Procrastinator

In firm opposition to Donald Trump's inevitable reelection campaign in 2020

Non-partisan and proud of it

"A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
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Beatrice
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"The First Empire formally withdraws its interest in the Permanent Seat vacated by the Holy Empire."


OOC: Ach....y'know, it's not worth it. ^_^
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With Rokkenjima's withdrawal the seat goes to South Hills.
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