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Donald Trump Presidency Megathread
Topic Started: 9th November 2016 - 06:31 AM (395 Views)
Gadshack
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This is for level discussion about the Trump Presidency, predictions, opinions, etc.

Several rules to establish:

- Be respectful, you can disagree with someone but do not launch personal attacks
- Civil debate, don't all out attack eachother in a hateful way
- No dank memes or any other memes

So, discuss, circlejerk, debate, whatever.

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For Fuck Sake Merica, you really this stupid?
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Tytor
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Please no. Please, please, no. I don't want to have to listen to that idiot for the next four years. The American people have failed me. Crossing my fingers that exit polls are wrong.
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Gadshack
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Whether you like Bernie Sanders or not, or preferred another candidate, the fact is that he was cheated from the nomination and the DNC have themselves to blame as well as democratic voters. Whether you like socialist Bernie, he would have beat Donald by miles and been an excellent president.

I think Hilary would have been good too. I know she's corrupt like any other politician(Trump as well). It sort of feels like a 'typical' vote, an evil that was necessary for the sake of sustainability or sane mind. Voting for Clinton was no different than normally voting and I was regretfully content with that. However, I didn't find solice in voting thrid party in an election this close. Those wasted votes going to third parties could easily go toward preventing Trump, third party votes is not making a 'statement' or 'helping' its not doing anything, it's only displaying non-pragmatic stubbornness. When people vote third party you're not 'one uping' the system, you're acting as an irrelevant spec that the system has been saying "that's cute" to for the vast majority of this countries existence. But it's not entirely third party voting fault, the DNC royally screwed itself as well, but we can't change the past.

I had issues with some of Bernie's proposals sure, didn't think some of them would necessarily work or even pass but he would have been decent president, able to make social strides internally and externally for the better...

all us Bernie Sanders supporters have to say is: We told you so.






On a side note, congrats to Trumpets... you won! Man am I trying hard to hold back my tongue! :D
Edited by Gadshack, 9th November 2016 - 07:15 AM.
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Tytor
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Logistically speaking, you cannot cheat in US elections and have it make any difference. The country's just too big and the system has too many checks in place for that to work. Sanders lost fair and square. Clinton seems to have done the same. I'm going to deal with it, and I hope all y'all do the same.

By the way, and this is completely unrelated, any of you know how much it would cost to cryogenically freeze myself for the next four to eight years?
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Gadshack
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Tytor
9th November 2016 - 07:23 AM
Logistically speaking, you cannot cheat in US elections and have it make any difference. The country's just too big and the system has too many checks in place for that to work. Sanders lost fair and square. Clinton seems to have done the same. I'm going to deal with it, and I hope all y'all do the same.

By the way, and this is completely unrelated, any of you know how much it would cost to cryogenically freeze myself for the next four to eight years?
That's not true when there's evidence that the DNC worked for Hilary and against Sanders in order to secure the nomination for her. Sure, they didn't directly tamper, you're right the country is too big, but they definitely worked against him to skew the primary, unfairly.

Also, that tech doesn't exist yet. A viable option may be investment in SpaceX and Boeing, they're going to mars :) nice place if you like brown and reds
Edited by Gadshack, 9th November 2016 - 07:27 AM.
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Magilan
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Well first off. Called it.
Second off. Hell yea.
To be fair however, anyone BUT shillary would have won against Trump. Seriously. If not for her illegal and frankly, stupid stunts, well. I think it is fair to say that Sanders vs T would have been a very different story. But here? Here we had one stupid buisnessman with an ego the size of the moon, against a corrupt cog in the machine.

Also, investing in SpaceX and Boeing for them to do something that NASA have had the capability, but not the funding to do, for years, is just silly.
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Tytor
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Well, Wisconsin's been called for Trump and America is now royally screwed. I can only hope Congress has the sense to keep the man contained before he really sends us off the deep end.

Donald Trump 1-0 My faith in the American people.
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Gadshack
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9th November 2016 - 07:42 AM


Also, investing in SpaceX and Boeing for them to do something that NASA have had the capability, but not the funding to do, for years, is just silly.
errr was joking :P but they closely cooperate with NASA ^^. Where do you think NASA gets the manufacturing and design to build their ships? From companies like Boeing, so it's a rather mutual relationship.

Now lets get back on topic...
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^ pretty much sums up my reaction.

I mean to be honest I called it for Clinton months ago and right up to around what was it? A week or ten days ago I was confident and then of course we know what happened- the FBI decided to put their hand up and say 'we want to have another look at these emails' (thus costing Hillary the election in my view). Now I've got a lot of friends in the states (I haven't talked to all of them yet) but seriously Hillary had a ten point lead before that despite all the Trump mudslinging and only starts losing it when there's the suggestion of legitimacy, four years ago some friends of mine who are Republican's said 'Obama won because of a hurricane' well today I'll say to them (when they crow over this) 'Trump won because of the FBI'

I'd also say America just about deserves this result for letting Trump get this far- the Republican's should have stopped him early, they had the opportunity to and they didn't but even so to elect a man with no prior political experience, a loose mouth and no (in my view) credible foreign policy? Makes me keep hoping that I'm asleep and this hasn't happened. It also makes me hope that the Republican establishment has a plan, though hilariously this result may be what gets Congress functional when you think about it- we don't yet know what Trump's administration is going to put on the Congress floor but I'll bet on a lot of Democrat filibustering and if the proposals are what everyone fears they could be then we can only hope for common sense among Republican's to vote them down.

Finally I'm just going to throw this out there Trump has won the equation under first past the post but may yet actually lose the popular vote and that might be the biggest warning shot to him that he doesn't have the support in terms of number of votes.

If anything this result and the circumstances around it demonstrate the need for the USA to sort out the laws around its elections because if they don't you can say goodbye to mainstream politicians forever and these elections will become a once every four years popularity contest between stars of reality TV.
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I'd also say America just about deserves this result for letting Trump get this far- the Republican's should have stopped him early, they had the opportunity to and they didn't but even so to elect a man with no prior political experience, a loose mouth and no (in my view) credible foreign policy? Makes me keep hoping that I'm asleep and this hasn't happened. It also makes me hope that the Republican establishment has a plan, though hilariously this result may be what gets Congress functional when you think about it- we don't yet know what Trump's administration is going to put on the Congress floor but I'll bet on a lot of Democrat filibustering and if the proposals are what everyone fears they could be then we can only hope for common sense among Republican's to vote them down.


Populists do not just pop up without any reason. The Republican and Democrat party are both to blame for having plowed and fertilized the field that Trump now reaps.
Just what should they have done to stop him? He had POPULAR support, you know, the support of the PEOPLE, or enough of it that he had to be heard if one wishes to maintain the idea of a "Free and just" "democracy".

As it is right now, I suspect the Republican party have understood that they have been so fucking out of touch with the people, that they hopefully will go along with his administration, for better or worse. As for the Democrats. The fact that they even allowed Hillary to run after the way the fucking rigged the primary nominations....

And electing someone without political experience might just be what we need. After all, the world have NOT gotten better under the last presidents that had political experience. It might not change anything, but betting on random instead of "Just the same slow decline" is always preferable.

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If anything this result and the circumstances around it demonstrate the need for the USA to sort out the laws around its elections because if they don't you can say goodbye to mainstream politicians forever and these elections will become a once every four years popularity contest between stars of reality TV.

Yes. But getting rid of politicians and replace them with people who are answerable to the public might just be what we need. We need less fucking politicians who lie, and more of the kind of people who, if nothing else, try.
But frankly, the US needs to go for a Swiss style. Give the states back their power, and let federal law and such be subject to the public vote. And for gods sake, KILL the electronic voting systems.
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CGJ
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A few points:

1) Thanks, Obama. Seriously...

2)
me in the betting thread
 
Not to rely too heavily on polls but, the guys at FiveThirtyEight have put in a pretty decent effort in to calculating Clinton's chance of winning. She'll win (hopefully).


Fml.

3)
Magilan
 
He had POPULAR support, you know, the support of the PEOPLE, or enough of it that he had to be heard if one wishes to maintain the idea of a "Free and just" "democracy".


He did actually lose the popular vote, but won on the Electoral College system which really needs scrapping.

4) Hurry the fuck up Michigan, Arizona and New Hampshire...

5) I'm not entirely sure Bernie Sanders would have fared much better against Trump. The mood is decisively swinging to the right – towards protectionism, anti-immigration and other populist policies that appeal to the non-university/college educated masses. Bernie didn't represent that, a bit like Corbyn in the UK.

6) I am going to assume the Republicans in Congress will likely block much of Trump's tax and spend policies, most are of course small 'c' conservatives. However, I am deeply worried now about Pence and the the direction towards abortion and LGBT+ rights. With a vacancy in the Supreme Court (and another one likely), a heavily Republican dominated Supreme Court[1] could spell the end for same-sex marriage, trans rights, and the rights for women to get voluntary abortions. I am also worried about Trump and most Republicans being in sync over climate change. It's real, it's happening, but they're plugging their ears.

7) Harambe got 15,000 votes, apparently.

8) On the bright side:

a) Katie Hopkins has promised to move to the States
b) Britain has regained the right to call the Americans the dumb ones.

[1] side note: I hate how politicised the American Supreme Court is
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To say I'm disappointed in the results of the election is an understatement. I didn't find Clinton exactly trustworthy, but I found Trump with all of his, err.... rhetoric towards women and minorities and potential to act on those evident prejudices rather frightening. In my mind, the greater of the two evils has won here.

Additionally, I echo CGJ's sixth item, and having LGBT family, I get to dread having that come down on people I know.

Further, healthcare's liable going to go out of reach for me (with my life-threatening neurological illness!), since the likelihood of me being able to pay for that as a student is rather low, and the odds of me getting a job can can pay for it in this economy are low (even with a 4.0 GPA I've worked my *** off to get and other such hard-earned advantages). Oh grad schools with student health plans, I'm coming after you! I've also got a friend/classmate who's in a similar boat but with cancer.

So... Not happy.
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Midst the tears and sorrow..excuse me for a moment *hugs Sekk* missed seeing you around

Now the one lesson all Brits will take from this (and we should have taken it from Brexit) is don't believe or trust a single political forecast the BBC now makes.

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To be fair, Ach, they're bound to get lucky once in a while.

Magilan
 
Populists do not just pop up without any reason. The Republican and Democrat party are both to blame for having plowed and fertilized the field that Trump now reaps.
Just what should they have done to stop him? He had POPULAR support, you know, the support of the PEOPLE, or enough of it that he had to be heard if one wishes to maintain the idea of a "Free and just" "democracy".
All right, look: every candidate in the race had popular support of some sort. They were all popular with at least one group of people. Does that mean that, say, Jill Stein should have become president? Well, no, Jill Stein lost. The fact remains that Trump rarely won more than a plurality in the primaries, and he didn't even manage that in the general. Based purely on those who voted, the plurality goes to Clinton. However, that is ignoring the fact that only around 55% of the country actually voted. The real plurality stayed home.

Magilan
 
As it is right now, I suspect the Republican party have understood that they have been so fucking out of touch with the people, that they hopefully will go along with his administration, for better or worse. As for the Democrats. The fact that they even allowed Hillary to run after the way the fucking rigged the primary nominations....
First off, Trump's more "out of touch" than just about any president ever, with the possible exception of William Henry Harrison, who lasted about a month before dying in office of pneumonia. Second, I want proof for this claim that the Democratic primaries were somehow "rigged"; that's twice now someone's put that conspiracy theory forward in this thread.

Magilan
 
And electing someone without political experience might just be what we need. After all, the world have NOT gotten better under the last presidents that had political experience. It might not change anything, but betting on random instead of "Just the same slow decline" is always preferable.
We've only had one president without either elective experience or military service prior to running. That was Herbert Hoover, possibly the unluckiest US president ever. I'm sure that's totally a group we want our presidents to belong to. Besides which, Trump's actually run for president before: the Reform Party didn't want him.

Magilan
 
Yes. But getting rid of politicians and replace them with people who are answerable to the public might just be what we need. We need less fucking politicians who lie, and more of the kind of people who, if nothing else, try.
Trump must really learn fast, because he's at least as much of a lying politician as I've ever seen.

Magilan
 
But frankly, the US needs to go for a Swiss style. Give the states back their power, and let federal law and such be subject to the public vote. And for gods sake, KILL the electronic voting systems.
Switzerland works because it's small, and because it's already got a pretty solid tradition of central government. Try that here, and there won't be a US.

And what do you have against electronic voting systems?
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OH AND I FORGOT TO ADD

9) RIP Climate. We've already seen Trump announcing that he's appointing a climate change denier as head of the EPA, wants to scrap the Paris Climate agreement, believes climate change itself is a hoax, supports major environmental deregulation and wished to provide tax breaks/government support to companies driving for shale gas and other natural resources.

Tytor
 
And what do you have against electronic voting systems?


Coming purely from a British perspective, where all votes are counted manually for every election, the general lack of transparency with voting machines. I'm not suggesting the system is rigged at all, just I don't entirely believe the benefits of electronic voting systems outweigh the cost in security.
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10th November 2016 - 06:38 PM
Coming purely from a British perspective, where all votes are counted manually for every election, the general lack of transparency with voting machines. I'm not suggesting the system is rigged at all, just I don't entirely believe the benefits of electronic voting systems outweigh the cost in security.
Fair enough. I suspect there will eventually be some scare that causes states to mostly do away with the systems, as that seems to be what happens around here.

Anyway, I'm honestly curious as to Magilan's reasons.
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His Excellency Juvenal Massaquoi, President of Ubakasa, Protector of the Revolution, and Father of His People

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