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The Official You Suck Mark Andre Bergeron Thread
Topic Started: Nov 12 2007, 09:31 PM (2,167 Views)
fastymctalent55
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Yes, he added a new element to the team's overall roster, but is MAB the magic elixer that, single-handedly, advanced us toward the cup?


Where did someone claim this?
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Islander4cups
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stevedepot,Nov 14 2007
10:42 AM
fastymctalent55,Nov 14 2007
10:35 AM
Hardlee Playinoff,Nov 14 2007
10:16 AM
Islander4cups,Nov 13 2007
08:07 PM
However, only one goal was his fault and people are treating him like a leper in a nudist colony.

C'mon now, I4C... would you really pick this guy if you had other options?

He's not the worst player, and he's effective occasionally... OK. But if you could turn back the hands on the clock, would you choose this guy again?

He's got certain assets, no doubt, but his general play is undependable. And that represents a consistent weak spot that can determine a hard-fought contest's outcome.

And as far as his faboulous slap shot goes, it's so "telegraphed" in advance that it's anticipated and relatively ineffective. The thrill is gone.

Let's not discount that this guy was a HUGE reason we made the playoffs last year.

fasty, why try and talk some sense?
;)

If GM's had the same knee jerk reactions fans did on message boards,
then Trent Hunter would have been traded a couple of years ago,
DiPietro wouldn't be here, Campoli would be gone, etc etc


Just because a player is struggling, doesn't mean they are a bust.
Poti struggled in NY with the Rags and then after having his best year with them,
their idiot fans never forgot so he came to us and had an EVEN BETTER year.

Players can learn, can adjust. The talent is there.
Unfortunately for itchy fans with no time for reasoning, the patience is not.

Good to see I'm not alone.

Let him sit and practice hard and get back to being an asset, which he is.

I can only imagine what the posts would be like if we were 5-9 instead of 9-5.

STEVE---- YOU ARE A GOD WHO I NOW BOW DOWN TO...

:WORSHIP: :WORSHIP: :WORSHIP: :WORSHIP: :WORSHIP:

Thank goodness there are some rational people here like you and fasty.

Your post basically summed up the points I've been trying to make since the MAB bashing started this season.

Kudos to you sir. :blueribbon: :thumbsup:
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puckhead,Nov 14 2007
10:49 AM

I'll just throw in my two cents on the issue and say.....

Depot you are totally correct.

MAB is still young and has talent which means you stick with him. To me, since we're playing well we have more reason to be patient with him. Patience I bet will pay off big time with this kid.

:thumbsup:

Didn't we go the impatient route with Mike Milbury?

Seems to me people have a short memory...and no patience.
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lifirefighter
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How long do you wait for someone to develop good play? Poti is a poor example because he had an OFF year with the rangers, he was considered a good defensmen before the ranjerk debacle and he's a good defensmen now.

Bergeron was NEVER considered a good defenseman and was riding the pine continually until he wore out his welcome in Edmonton. Was he the main reason we made the playoffs last year? nope. Was he a reason why our powerplay got better last year? Sure. but he's a one-trick pony and once teams figured out that one trick, the powerplay suffered. With berard in there the powerplay got better. Now that MAB is running it our powerplay is down again.

Taking this wait and see approach with him is far different then with a goalie. Goalies take far longer to develop then forwards or defensmen. the isles keep DP because he plays well to begin with, and shows promise.

MAB plays poorly to begin with (remember he is a defenseman) and shows what? promise of a good shot?

He has problems turning over the puck, getting back into position, once in position keep forwards away from the front of the net, stick handling, getting off a shot, running a powerplay and breaking up a pass in the neutral zone.

Tell me again why we need to keep this project? He's been in the league for 6 freaking years! He's not going to develop good play all of a sudden. He's like Scott Lachance, eventually people are going to wake up and realize he sucks.
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Hardlee Playinoff,Nov 14 2007
10:16 AM
Islander4cups,Nov 13 2007
08:07 PM
However, only one goal was his fault and people are treating him like a leper in a nudist colony.

C'mon now, I4C... would you really pick this guy if you had other options?

He's not the worst player, and he's effective occasionally... OK. But if you could turn back the hands on the clock, would you choose this guy again?

He's got certain assets, no doubt, but his general play is undependable. And that represents a consistent weak spot that can determine a hard-fought contest's outcome.

And as far as his faboulous slap shot goes, it's so "telegraphed" in advance that it's anticipated and relatively ineffective. The thrill is gone.

Do we have other options???? HE IS OUR 7TH DEFENSEMEN. Which means one of our top options isn't there, is he.

He's been wildly inconsistent. He's had flashes of brilliance ( reg season games with Isles last year) and had poor games (Sabres series) and lousy game (first 5 games this year and the Philly game).

However, don't be Milbury. Criticize on WHAT HE ACTUALLY DOES or doesn't do, that's fine. But trading him after less than 40 games as an Islander??? That is just idiotic beyond belief. I'm sorry if that insults people, but it is.

Pat LaFontaine had a weak first full season with the Isles-- guess we should have traded him too.

MAB definitely is too lax at times with the puck and gets out of position, but he's also shown he can play well. Give Nolan TIME to work with the guy...and a half season is not TIME. If by the end of the year or even this year's trading deadline approaches and he isn't getting it, then maybe you look to move him.

Anytime prior is just idiotic.

And yes, I would choose him. What exactly did we give up for him again?

JMO and I'm sticking to it.
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lifirefighter,Nov 14 2007
11:44 AM
How long do you wait for someone to develop good play? Poti is a poor example because he had an OFF year with the rangers, he was considered a good defensmen before the ranjerk debacle and he's a good defensmen now.

Bergeron was NEVER considered a good defenseman and was riding the pine continually until he wore out his welcome in Edmonton. Was he the main reason we made the playoffs last year? nope. Was he a reason why our powerplay got better last year? Sure. but he's a one-trick pony and once teams figured out that one trick, the powerplay suffered. With berard in there the powerplay got better. Now that MAB is running it our powerplay is down again.

Taking this wait and see approach with him is far different then with a goalie. Goalies take far longer to develop then forwards or defensmen. the isles keep DP because he plays well to begin with, and shows promise.

MAB plays poorly to begin with (remember he is a defenseman) and shows what? promise of a good shot?

He has problems turning over the puck, getting back into position, once in position keep forwards away from the front of the net, stick handling, getting off a shot, running a powerplay and breaking up a pass in the neutral zone.

Tell me again why we need to keep this project? He's been in the league for 6 freaking years! He's not going to develop good play all of a sudden. He's like Scott Lachance, eventually people are going to wake up and realize he sucks.

Berard was NEVER considered good defensively either and look at him so far this season...so I guess a decade?
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lifirefighter,Nov 14 2007
11:44 AM
How long do you wait for someone to develop good play? Poti is a poor example because he had an OFF year with the rangers, he was considered a good defensmen before the ranjerk debacle and he's a good defensmen now.

Bergeron was NEVER considered a good defenseman and was riding the pine continually until he wore out his welcome in Edmonton. Was he the main reason we made the playoffs last year? nope. Was he a reason why our powerplay got better last year? Sure. but he's a one-trick pony and once teams figured out that one trick, the powerplay suffered. With berard in there the powerplay got better. Now that MAB is running it our powerplay is down again.

Taking this wait and see approach with him is far different then with a goalie. Goalies take far longer to develop then forwards or defensmen. the isles keep DP because he plays well to begin with, and shows promise.

MAB plays poorly to begin with (remember he is a defenseman) and shows what? promise of a good shot?

He has problems turning over the puck, getting back into position, once in position keep forwards away from the front of the net, stick handling, getting off a shot, running a powerplay and breaking up a pass in the neutral zone.

Tell me again why we need to keep this project? He's been in the league for 6 freaking years! He's not going to develop good play all of a sudden. He's like Scott Lachance, eventually people are going to wake up and realize he sucks.

Actually, MAB played well for us from Feb-April last year. to think otherwise would be changing history.

And Berard was a bum defensively for a long time. So was Poti. Some defensemen do take longer to develop. I'm not saying MAB will, but dumping him on a 30 game look is a Milbury move.
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lifirefighter
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Islander4cups,Nov 14 2007
11:47 AM

Pat LaFontaine had a weak first full season with the Isles-- guess we should have traded him too.

Patty was a rookie, MAB has been around the league for 6 years. You want to make that arguement make it with someone whose been around for as long as MAB has.

Who did Berard have to learn from when he was here the first go around?
Bergeron had Pronger.
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fastymctalent55
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Islander4cups,Nov 14 2007
11:48 AM
lifirefighter,Nov 14 2007
11:44 AM
How long do you wait for someone to develop good play? Poti is a poor example because he had an OFF year with the rangers, he was considered a good defensmen before the ranjerk debacle and he's a good defensmen now.

Bergeron was NEVER considered a good defenseman and was riding the pine continually until he wore out his welcome in Edmonton. Was he the main reason we made the playoffs last year? nope. Was he a reason why our powerplay got better last year? Sure. but he's a one-trick pony and once teams figured out that one trick, the powerplay suffered. With berard in there the powerplay got better. Now that MAB is running it our powerplay is down again.

Taking this wait and see approach with him is far different then with a goalie. Goalies take far longer to develop then forwards or defensmen. the isles keep DP because he plays well to begin with, and shows promise.

MAB plays poorly to begin with (remember he is a defenseman) and shows what? promise of a good shot?

He has problems turning over the puck, getting back into position, once in position keep forwards away from the front of the net, stick handling, getting off a shot, running a powerplay and breaking up a pass in the neutral zone.

Tell me again why we need to keep this project? He's been in the league for 6 freaking years! He's not going to develop good play all of a sudden. He's like Scott Lachance, eventually people are going to wake up and realize he sucks.

Berard was NEVER considered good defensively either and look at him so far this season...so I guess a decade?

Yeah, Berard is NOT a good defenseman, let's not overstate what we have here. He's an offensive force, but he's not a defensive player by any stretch of the imagination.

Hopefully since Berard is older, he'll have the maturity to take the coaching staff's directive to attend to his defensive game, (He was told in no uncertain terms when he was signed that he MUST play defense to stick around) because it has been severely lacking in his previous seasons.

MAB and Berard are Power Play guys, to expect more will only lead to dissapointment. If either of these guys had defensive skills to match their offensive skill set, they'd be Nicklas Lidstrom, not Bryan Berard and Marc-Andre Bergeron.
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lifirefighter,Nov 14 2007
12:36 PM
Islander4cups,Nov 14 2007
11:47 AM

Pat LaFontaine had a weak first full season with the Isles-- guess we should have traded him too.

Patty was a rookie, MAB has been around the league for 6 years. You want to make that arguement make it with someone whose been around for as long as MAB has.

Who did Berard have to learn from when he was here the first go around?
Bergeron had Pronger.

LOL.....MAB had Pronger for ONE SEASON and Pronger was too busy bedding female tv reporters so his wife demanded he be traded.

MAB and Pronger play completely different styles.

BTW..wasn't Kenny J an Islander in Berard's first go round?
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lifirefighter
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One year of learning from a pro will go a long way, unless your a jerk and don't take peoples advice. Look at Pronger and MacInnis. Pronger was a bust in hartford. He gets moved to St. Louis and gets some help from Al (who in addition to having the 100 mph shot knew how to play his position) and pronger turned into a stud almost overnight. Right training from the right people.

And at least it was a TV reporter and not his wife's sister.

KJ was in his second year, hardly a pro and we got him pretty late into the season. No, our defensive wizs (is that even a word?) bryan's first year were Scott Lachance, Bob Beers, Chris Luongo, Brent Severyn and bryan mccabe.
I don't think there is a top pairing anywhere in there, that bunch of losers are 5-7 dmen. In all honesty Berard is only a top d-man if he's got someone reliable paired with him.

You want to compare MAB with someone compare him to Pronger, which is a good assessment. All shot no d-skill. (well pronger can hit like a truck--which MAB will never do). How did pronger get better? he shut his mouth and learned from one of the best.

MAB won't be able to do that here, so...what are his other options?
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Hardlee Playinoff
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Islander4cups,Nov 14 2007
11:47 AM
However, don't be Milbury.

Hey, wait a minute.... this kind of language is unneccesary!
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LEDZEP
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Mark Andre Bergeron slap shot has been clocked at speeds over 200 miles per hour. :o

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LEDZEP,Nov 14 2007
02:21 PM
Mark Andre Bergeron slap shot has been clocked at speeds over 200 miles per hour. :o

Mark Andre Bergeron Rocks :punk: :punk: :punk:

200mph? yeah, I see the dents in the backboards. :rolleyes:
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fastymctalent55
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lifirefighter,Nov 14 2007
12:54 PM
One year of learning from a pro will go a long way, unless your a jerk and don't take peoples advice. Look at Pronger and MacInnis. Pronger was a bust in hartford. He gets moved to St. Louis and gets some help from Al (who in addition to having the 100 mph shot knew how to play his position) and pronger turned into a stud almost overnight. Right training from the right people.

And at least it was a TV reporter and not his wife's sister.

KJ was in his second year, hardly a pro and we got him pretty late into the season. No, our defensive wizs (is that even a word?) bryan's first year were Scott Lachance, Bob Beers, Chris Luongo, Brent Severyn and bryan mccabe.
I don't think there is a top pairing anywhere in there, that bunch of losers are 5-7 dmen. In all honesty Berard is only a top d-man if he's got someone reliable paired with him.

You want to compare MAB with someone compare him to Pronger, which is a good assessment. All shot no d-skill. (well pronger can hit like a truck--which MAB will never do). How did pronger get better? he shut his mouth and learned from one of the best.

MAB won't be able to do that here, so...what are his other options?

This may be at the heart of the matter here.

LIfire says that Pronger was a bust in Hartford. Islander4Cups may say that he just hadn't developed yet at that time. If we were Whaler fans at that time and Pronger was on the team, would we be having a similar debate about cutting Pronger lose? If so, I'd really hope that Islander4Cups got his way and not LIfire.

The point being that to consider him a bust would have been a misinterpretation of his ceiling.

(Btw-Pronger wasn't neccessarily a bust in Hartford, he was traded for Brendan Shanahan, he had tremendous value when he was moved.)

And yes, I know that Bergeron doesn't have the ceiling of Chris Pronger! :D

Also keep in mind it wasn't really until his injury shortened fourth year in St Louis that he really broke out, and in a major way--it was definitely not an overnight transformation.
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lifirefighter
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I would say pronger's d play improved dramatically his first season or two there. By season three (10 points in 10 playoff games) he was pretty much there on both ends.

the flip side of the arguement is this: was pronger going to be pronger if he stayed in harford/carolina?

I'd say probably not. It wasn't until he got to Stl and had people like Mac and steve duchesne show him the ropes.

What more can we expect out of bergeron after 6 years? Pronger had two in hartford, and say another 2 or 3 in STL before he really matured...and we're talking about serious learning curve there. it will be 6 for MAB with him still getting benched and no end in sight.

I am not sure about the arguement in harford, except that they got screwed in that deal ala kirk muller. yes i know at least shanny showed up and played and scored at over a point a game, but he made it very apparent he didn't want to be there and demanded a trade right away. ahh good times with the whalers.
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brafft
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3POTI,Nov 13 2007
12:11 PM

isn't this his second team...how much time does he need to fully comprhend DEFENSE?

3POTI ranger fans were saying the same thing about Tom Poti when we signed him. And again MAB might have more upside.....
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brafft,Nov 14 2007
03:16 PM
3POTI,Nov 13 2007
12:11 PM

isn't this his second team...how much time does he need to fully comprhend DEFENSE?

3POTI ranger fans were saying the same thing about Tom Poti when we signed him. And again MAB might have more upside.....

more upside...where are they then?




I'm more than willing to be patient with mab. But if the he is going to stay on this team any longer, than the Islanders need to trade for another reliable dman. Someone who mab can learn from, as mentioned in other peoples posts.
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brafft
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By upside I mean his speed and his shot......he has both and he is a D-man....And he is still young.....All I'm asking for is give Nolan and staff some time with him...The guy has not even had a full year here....I think confidence goes a long way to making smart decisions on the ice....I'm just asking people to take a step back and wait a bit....I've watched the Islanders for years give guys away because they did not develop fast enough only to see them flourish under a better coaching staff, and system ....Now we have a great staff, with the right players....allow him some time to develop with both.....Sutton is a great player to team him up with.....just give him some time....I understand the complaints, I see what your saying....the only difference is I see a player who could be worth keeping given the right guidence. -Brafft
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