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Islanders way of "playing"; coaching or talent or WHAT?
Topic Started: Nov 13 2008, 09:04 AM (1,848 Views)
MNIslander13
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No I in team, but there is an "m,e".
So I taped the Flyers game and watched another crappy afternoon tilt. Then I watched the Pens v. Wings. :fear: Holy scoring Batman!!

Yesterday I went for and Islander pick me up and watched the '97 game off the Isles site. The 8-2 mashing of Boston with Ziggy's hat trick.

In these 2nd two games, the attitude to score was amazing. But what struck me the most was shots ON net. Not just shooting at the net (and missing, hitting the boards), but on net. And the passing, well, just better then this team is doing.

Kyle could have been in that '97 game and fit right in with how he's been playing. Hell, he might have even scored in that game.

It probably can't be narrowed down to one thing, but try here, what is the major reason this team is playing so poor? Coaching (the system)? Talent? Management? Owner?

I would have to say talent (to keep it at one thing).

Coaching seems to be aw-ight. Gordo can't play for them.

Management -- good time they are great, bad times they suck. It's kind of a crap shoot over all in picking guys.

Ownership -- not sure there. Just the man who signs the checks and another crap shoot in picking the management.

At this point in the season, I think I can handle whatever happens with wins-loses. But I can't take the poor play from the vets. 2 piss poor passes that BILLY made. DOUGGIE is just not a leader. MIKEY, well, that's already been talked about.

Back to the scoring. I don't know. It's hard to describe how I see it. Just the way the Pens, Wings, and even that '97 game, went at attacking with shots. Not just shooting at the net, but with more of an attitude of "I'm putting this sucker IN the net."

Anybody else see that? :dontknow:
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Way to start the season MSG.
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Bexlyspeed
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bexlyspeed- 3rd round draft pick
I would have to say poor coaching does have a hand in how bad this team is, just look at how they can not hold 3rd period leads, especially in that montreal game. he totally tried to sit on the 4-1 lead in the third and it crumbled to dust, instead of keeping the pressure on the habs, not saying your talent argument is invalid but the coaching is very poor as well.

say what you want about Nolan but he got every ounce and then some from his players, he definetly elevated the players he had because the players believed in him. who believes in gordon? what has the guy done? absolutly nothing at this level.
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Webb20
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MN you probably watched the best game of '97 so to compare it to the Flyers game is unjust. What if it was an 8-1 drubbing of our team that same year, would the comparision look the same to you?

I will say we do lack scoring talent and that's a big problem. We are not getting blown out by 4 or 5 goals a game. For the most part they are all close and if we had some guys that could find the back of the net, or collectively as a team average 1 more goal a game our record may be reversed.

I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
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puckhead
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For the reason Webby states----not getting blown out and staying in games-----I feel Gordon thus far has done a good job. What more can he do?

A coach can only get his team prepared and ready to play and this team thus far in this young season is prepared and ready.
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Hardlee Playinoff
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puckhead,Nov 13 2008
10:38 AM
For the reason Webby states----not getting blown out and staying in games-----I feel Gordon thus far has done a good job. What more can he do?

A coach can only get his team prepared and ready to play and this team thus far in this young season is prepared and ready.

I don't know about that, PH.

Does prepared and ready mean suited up and sticks properly taped?

For starters, there certainly is a characteristic about the Isles that would be daunting to any coach.... and that is meaningful shots on goal. We are expert in the "almost" department. So the stat is very qualified and, often, irrelevant. 30 "shots on goal" that are piss weak, bobbled, or accidents constitute an often misleading and a bogus stat.

For years now, the phrase "Shoots wide!" has been assailing my ears. I think Gordo should institute a mandatory 3 hours per day for ALL players to practice aiming at the goal. It's embarrassing at this point. This is the NHL!!! What the f#$k is going on? The goal isn't THAT small! Hit the FFkin thing! Hit it hard and often!

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aries44475
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Bexlyspeed,Nov 13 2008
09:18 AM
I would have to say poor coaching does have a hand in how bad this team is, just look at how they can not hold 3rd period leads, especially in that montreal game. he totally tried to sit on the 4-1 lead in the third and it crumbled to dust, instead of keeping the pressure on the habs, not saying your talent argument is invalid but the coaching is very poor as well.

say what you want about Nolan but he got every ounce and then some from his players, he definetly elevated the players he had because the players believed in him. who believes in gordon? what has the guy done? absolutly nothing at this level.

As I recall Gordon himself said the players were not doing what they were coached to do in that 3rd period. At this point I don't think you can blame the coach 12 games into the season, we need more scoring and a healthy defense to add to the evaluation.
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puckhead
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Hardlee Playinoff,Nov 13 2008
10:48 AM
puckhead,Nov 13 2008
10:38 AM
For the reason Webby states----not getting blown out and staying in games-----I feel Gordon thus far has done a good job.  What more can he do? 

A coach can only get his team prepared and ready to play and this team thus far in this young season is prepared and ready.

I don't know about that, PH.

Does prepared and ready mean suited up and sticks properly taped?

For starters, there certainly is a characteristic about the Isles that would be daunting to any coach.... and that is meaningful shots on goal. We are expert in the "almost" department. So the stat is very qualified and, often, irrelevant. 30 "shots on goal" that are piss weak, bobbled, or accidents constitute an often misleading and a bogus stat.

For years now, the phrase "Shoots wide!" has been assailing my ears. I think Gordo should institute a mandatory 3 hours per day for ALL players to practice aiming at the goal. It's embarrassing at this point. This is the NHL!!! What the f#$k is going on? The goal isn't THAT small! Hit the FFkin thing! Hit it hard and often!

Hardlee what you say is absolutely true. But that's more the case of being a lack of talent on this squad than coaching. Gordon can't get these guys to play harder.....and to me that's the main job of a coach.
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25yearfan
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You can call me Joe.
Hardlee Playinoff,Nov 13 2008
11:48 AM
puckhead,Nov 13 2008
10:38 AM
For the reason Webby states----not getting blown out and staying in games-----I feel Gordon thus far has done a good job.  What more can he do? 

A coach can only get his team prepared and ready to play and this team thus far in this young season is prepared and ready.

I don't know about that, PH.

Does prepared and ready mean suited up and sticks properly taped?

For starters, there certainly is a characteristic about the Isles that would be daunting to any coach.... and that is meaningful shots on goal. We are expert in the "almost" department. So the stat is very qualified and, often, irrelevant. 30 "shots on goal" that are piss weak, bobbled, or accidents constitute an often misleading and a bogus stat.

For years now, the phrase "Shoots wide!" has been assailing my ears. I think Gordo should institute a mandatory 3 hours per day for ALL players to practice aiming at the goal. It's embarrassing at this point. This is the NHL!!! What the f#$k is going on? The goal isn't THAT small! Hit the FFkin thing! Hit it hard and often!

Don't forget, there are 5 equally motivated guys wearing the opposite sweater trying to keep you from getting a shot off. Emphasizing speed *should* help, to get more open space / odd man chances off pressure, but this is still a work in progress.

That said, I think NYI need some scoring upgrades -- if a couple of guys on board don't rise to the challenge after another 8 or so games, I wouldn't be surprised to see a vet or two moved for MORE youth. That's more than enough of the season to see what you've got / if it's not working, bring in more future assets & continue to develop the young guys (bad for fans this year, good for 2010/2011).
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

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fastymctalent55
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This team has little to no talent, far less than most other NHL squads.

The losses and the ways they're losing games really isn't a surprise.



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John Tavares does it all...
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rifleman22
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I was actually going to start a new topic similar to this one, so here is my take:

ARE WE REALLY THAT BAD?

Let's see, we were without Campoli to start the season, our franchise goalie has played a few games while injured and is now out indefinitely, Witt, Martinek, Meyer, and Sillinger have been out for lengthy periods, with Sills seeing no action and probably a month away from returning. Comrie, who I personally beat up in this forum, has obviously been playing hurt. Bailey played one game. Nate Thompson is out. Sutton just returned. I think that covers it, but I may have missed someone, the list keeps growing.

We have a new coach.

We're learning a new system.

Our veterans, who we are depending on heavily, are on the downside of their careers (Weight and Guerin, include Sills if you like).

Now, our record sucks, make no mistake. But what would our record be if we had Rick in net every game? Ask the Devils, they're 1-4 without Brodeur. If Witt, Martinek and Meyer were playing every night would we be giving up the third periods leads like we are? I don't think so.

Point is, the expectations for this team are not and should not be high. We should be better than we are but it is not like we're losing 8-1 every night. We're getting to see some young talent in Kyle, Bailey (finally), Gervais, Thompson etc. At the very least we will get to see if they have what it takes. Tamby is being given a legitimate chance to play in the NHL. Same story- make or break.

And except for the Rags, nobody is running away with anything. They are, by the way, bascially injury free and they WILL have injuries, everybody does. If and when we get healthy I think we will be better than everyone thinks we are.

I'm not looking at the world through rose colored glasses, I'm as ticked as anyone about our record and the way we're losing. I just think it has a lot to do with many factors, a lot of which are fixable. Get the injured players back, continue to work on the sysytem, the coach is NOT an embarassment like Sterling was. The words I read from the players is that, at least at this point, they believe in the coach and the system and are willing to keep at it.

That's just my take on it. I don't think we're really that bad and I do believe that we have begun a path back. True, it will hurt this year but as long as I see progress I'm fine with that. As long as we have a direction and we seem to have one, I'm good with that, too. It wasn't too long ago that neither was true.

Now, fire away.
THE RIFLE

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sometimes you're the bug.
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clebo99
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I think the problem is consistency with the team......We have had a revolving door for the last few years both with coaches and players. Now, I understand FA does make players move much more often than say 20 years ago, but we really have had almost a complete turnover of players in a pretty short time.

I would have much rather seen the core of players 3-4 years ago still here and grown together as a team instead of seeing them "voted off the Island". And, yes, that means some of the most hated on this board.

Injuries haven't been good for us either.....Ricky did keep us in a lot of games last year.

"When you've loved and lost like Frank has, you know what life's all about".
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fastymctalent55
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I just don't know why fans are looking at this team from a win/loss perspective (mentioned above at being ticked off at their record).

This is a completely REBUILD. This IS what we signed up for at the beginning of the year.

When you're in the first season of a Rebuild you WANT TO BE BAD. You want to get a game changing pick.

What, we'd rather finished with the 8th worst record in the league? Where does that get you?
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MNIslander13
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No I in team, but there is an "m,e".
Webb20,Nov 13 2008
08:31 AM
MN you probably watched the best game of '97 so to compare it to the Flyers game is unjust. What if it was an 8-1 drubbing of our team that same year, would the comparision look the same to you?

I will say we do lack scoring talent and that's a big problem. We are not getting blown out by 4 or 5 goals a game. For the most part they are all close and if we had some guys that could find the back of the net, or collectively as a team average 1 more goal a game our record may be reversed.

Webby,

I'm not saying I'm comparing the games. It just struck me in 'that' game, the intensity of that '97 team played with a purpose. Something I don't really remember (alot) in say the last 3 seasons that I've been able follow. Maybe a game here or there, but not consistently. Too many long losing streaks. I think if the passing improved, that might help with more goals as well.


Another thing I was thinking watching 97, was the loss of talent. Hind sight is always :blah: . But we seem to have good building block to work on, then :doh: good young talent gets traded away. Loosing Ziggy still blows.

I'm just wondering (now) if that is going to happen to what's going on now? K.O. I'd say is the top "young'n" we have. I'd hate to see 2 or 3 more years, then :doh: :rant: :finger: he gets traded.

Do think there will some stability to this youth movement? Or will the trade trigger get pulled on someone that will blow up for another team?

I hope this stays the coarse. :unsure:
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MCIVOR16
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i was a big nolan fan, but i like the flash system, all we need now is healthy d, sound goaltending (dubie), and more leadership from our captain and his buddy dougie.
IT'S A LONG WAY TO THE TOP (IF YOU WANNA ROCK N ROLL)

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Shooter
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MCIVOR16,Nov 13 2008
03:20 PM
i was a big nolan fan, but i like the flash system, all we need now is healthy d, sound goaltending (dubie), and more leadership from our captain and his buddy dougie.

Is Dubie even getting paid?
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Hardlee Playinoff
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puckhead,Nov 13 2008
11:54 AM
Hardlee Playinoff,Nov 13 2008
10:48 AM
puckhead,Nov 13 2008
10:38 AM
For the reason Webby states----not getting blown out and staying in games-----I feel Gordon thus far has done a good job.  What more can he do? 

A coach can only get his team prepared and ready to play and this team thus far in this young season is prepared and ready.

I don't know about that, PH.

Does prepared and ready mean suited up and sticks properly taped?

For starters, there certainly is a characteristic about the Isles that would be daunting to any coach.... and that is meaningful shots on goal. We are expert in the "almost" department. So the stat is very qualified and, often, irrelevant. 30 "shots on goal" that are piss weak, bobbled, or accidents constitute an often misleading and a bogus stat.

For years now, the phrase "Shoots wide!" has been assailing my ears. I think Gordo should institute a mandatory 3 hours per day for ALL players to practice aiming at the goal. It's embarrassing at this point. This is the NHL!!! What the f#$k is going on? The goal isn't THAT small! Hit the FFkin thing! Hit it hard and often!

Hardlee what you say is absolutely true. But that's more the case of being a lack of talent on this squad than coaching. Gordon can't get these guys to play harder.....and to me that's the main job of a coach.

I may agree conditionally on that one, PH..... it certainly is the coach's responsibility to a great degree... but the "talent" excuse is very, very qualified.

I have a theory that what might be at the bottom of this is not a lack of talent or the potential thereof.... but something even more awful and pervasive. Now I know I'm going to catch it for saying this, but here goes:

THEORY: Our players would just rather not be here, period. I don't care what they say on camera.... in the back of their minds they have bought into the NHL pundits' prediction that the Isles will come in last, are not to be taken seriously, and are a dead-end for any player.... just a place to collect bucks while they put in a half-hearted effort, mostly to shop themselves to future teams while avoiding injury.

(Note: omit Park, Witt, Martinek, Hunter and, perhaps, Okposo and Sim from the above).

And that's why a great many players, when they leave the Isles, seem to have their talent mystically return as they play their asses off with, seemingly, a rebirth of determined work ethic (Satan, for instance).

Well.... there's my nightmare, for what it's worth. Sorry if I've bent anyone out of shape.
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Islander4cups
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fastymctalent55,Nov 13 2008
12:42 PM


When you're in the first season of a Rebuild you WANT TO BE BAD. You want to get a game changing pick.

What, we'd rather finished with the 8th worst record in the league? Where does that get you?

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I just don't know why fans are looking at this team from a win/loss perspective (mentioned above at being ticked off at their record). 

This is a completely REBUILD.  This IS what we signed up for at the beginning of the year.


That is an excellent point. All teams that go into a rebuild are bad teams...from a record standpoint.

Crosby's rookie year he missed the playoffs. Same with OV. Same with SuperMario's first 3 or 4 years. But those teams continued to add talent, keep what talent they had and cut the dead weight.

I'm looking for improvement and not repeating the same mistakes over and over. That is why I'm on Bruno's case so much. Gervais makes the same mistakes he makes 3 years ago. I hope he improves, but I haven't seen it over a 3 year span and that worries me.

I don't judge this team on wins and losses and young teams are going to blow games here and there. However, to do it consistantly like they did for a 2 week period is unacceptable at any level and any amount of experience. Hopefully, the kids learned from that.

This is what this season is about...learning, evaluating and developing. If that happens and we are a stronger team in the second half...great. Look at St.L, they added a ton of young talent and had the best record in the second half last year. It hasn't spelled success yet this season, but they have an improving young core. Same with Philadelphia. Two seasons ago they were the worst team in the league but they brought in a ton of youth and now they will be challenging for the playoffs and division for the next 5 seasons easily. those teams had to take lumps and learn from them. Hopefully this is what this season is for us...take lumps, LEARN AND DEVELOP.
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MNIslander13
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Islander4cups,Nov 13 2008
10:38 PM
Crosby's rookie year he missed the playoffs.  Same with OV.  Same with SuperMario's first 3 or 4 years.  But those teams continued to add talent, keep what talent they had and cut the dead weight. 


Hopefully the Isles. cut our "DEAD Weight", not our future players and ADD some better talent. Break away from the OLD traditions.

Loved the :score: that Kyle scored last night. Beautiful pass from J.B. quick quick BOOM!!

Just the way Kyle shot it was nice. He wasn't going to miss it.


More passing and shots (determination) like that, good things can happen to this team.
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Way to start the season MSG.
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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Aside from the third periods implosions, the Islanders are looking improved this year. Hopefully, the implosions end soon and we discover it was simply part of the learning period, but time will tell.

Are the Islanders lacking talent? Yes, but they have been relying on players to perform other roles to fill the void of the talent. One day it will come. One day when the damn Lighthouse is built, though.
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bumpkin
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And that's why a great many players, when they leave the Isles, seem to have their talent mystically return as they play their asses off with, seemingly, a rebirth of determined work ethic (Satan, for instance).

Okay, I have been following him, but unable to actually watch the games. He has spent limited time with Sid and Malkin, one goal I think he was just out of the box when they hit him on a breakaway, a few tip ins, and some fans are complaining that he is slow and lazy(although Nolan taught him something-he now back checks). The complaining is calming down, and because he is the leading goal scorer of their high scoring team. He is going to get points and goals, maybe bettering his highs of 40 goals or 75 points if he stays healthy. But, and I like him, he is the same player on a better team.

Feto did have a big goal this week, but he has not done much. I would not expect him to, 3rd line player.

The point is, they HAVE moved on to greener pastures.

We need to improve the roster-top to bottom, in order to get a decent base for the future. Get better, not just younger. Draft better, not just differently-last year seems to have been a start.

You have to wonder what life would have been like by now with Smith and Nolan together. Conflict is necessary between the coach and GM, yes men are not important. Gordon doe not want to be one, he just wants to coach. Does Garth read this forum?
Where in the World is Sebastian Collberg?
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