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What's worse than a bad team?
Topic Started: Dec 8 2008, 09:58 PM (969 Views)
bumpkin
Member Avatar
1st line
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:10 AM
^ I was thinking that too but than I go look at the standings and see the paridy and realize that we are the SECOND worst team in the league. I know the record lies a little but we are 10-16.... through 26 games what did you think we were going to be? Probably right around there.

And not to knock you, but you can no longer say we are close to .500.

The second worst team in the league, but with a rookie goaltender who was supposed to carry DP's bag for him. If DP backstopped us to this record, that might have been suspected.
But at times the team shows more than that, which is why I still watch them. We have beaten some good teams, despite our 3rd period collapses. Factor those out and you have a .500 team.
If someone had told you after the first game what was going to happen with DP, what record would you have guessed at this point, 6-20?
Where in the World is Sebastian Collberg?
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LEDZEP
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The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
bumpkin,Dec 10 2008
04:00 AM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:10 AM
^ I was thinking that too but than I go look at the standings and see the paridy and realize that we are the SECOND worst team in the league.  I know the record lies a little but we are 10-16.... through 26 games what did you think we were going to be?  Probably right around there.

And not to knock you, but you can no longer say we are close to .500.

The second worst team in the league, but with a rookie goaltender who was supposed to carry DP's bag for him. If DP backstopped us to this record, that might have been suspected.
But at times the team shows more than that, which is why I still watch them. We have beaten some good teams, despite our 3rd period collapses. Factor those out and you have a .500 team.
If someone had told you after the first game what was going to happen with DP, what record would you have guessed at this point, 6-20?

DP not that good :disgraced:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
Posted Image
Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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LEDZEP
Member Avatar
The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
bumpkin,Dec 10 2008
04:00 AM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:10 AM
^ I was thinking that too but than I go look at the standings and see the paridy and realize that we are the SECOND worst team in the league.  I know the record lies a little but we are 10-16.... through 26 games what did you think we were going to be?  Probably right around there.

And not to knock you, but you can no longer say we are close to .500.

If someone had told you after the first game what was going to happen with DP, what record would you have guessed at this point, 6-20?

It would not matter he would break down after 3 games :disgraced:

6-20 if he was in net :disgraced:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
Posted Image
Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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rifleman22
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All Star
A reality check:

Let's take a look at a few things, not as excuses, but as reasons for where we are.

First, Nolan was fired on July 14. Scott Gordon was hired on August 12. Camp started on or about September 19. What I'm saying here is Gordon inherited last year's team, minus Simon, Fedetenko, Satan and Dubie; plus Streit and Weight. He then proceeded with his "system". I have to say, I understand and like the system, but he is trying to implement it with what we have, not with what he would deem players that fit.

Next, here is our injury list for this season, so far. It lists the orignal (if applicable) date and the retro date for IR if applicable.

12/07/2008 Kyle Okposo Day-to-day Sprained right wrist
11/26/2008 Bruno Gervais Injured Reserve Leg
11/23/2008 Frans Nielsen Day-to-day Multiple leg injuries
11/22/2008 Frans Nielsen Injured Reserve Multiple leg injuries
11/21/2008 Kyle Okposo Injured Reserve Arm
11/11/2008 Mike Comrie Injured Reserve Hip
11/08/2008 Nate Thompson Injured Reserve Strained groin
11/03/2008 Sean Bergenheim Day-to-day Illness
10/27/2008 Freddy Meyer Injured Reserve Sports hernia
10/27/2008 Rick DiPietro Day-to-day Undisclosed lower body injury
10/27/2008 Rick DiPietro Injured Reserve Knee surgery
10/27/2008 Freddy Meyer Injured Reserve Sports hernia
10/24/2008 Brendan Witt Injured Reserve Knee
10/12/2008 Radek Martinek Injured Reserve Right shoulder
10/10/2008 Josh Bailey Injured Reserve Lower body injury
10/05/2008 Andy Sutton Injured Reserve Hand surgery
09/30/2008 Chris Campoli Injured Reserve Shoulder
09/20/2008 Mike Sillinger Injured Reserve Hip surgery

My point? Let's have a real perspective of where we are and where we can possibly end up.

I believe we've been pretty damn good during some stretches. Pretty damn bad during others, including now. I love what I've seen from the young guns and I am THRILLED that Comeau is being given the opportunity to perform. We're dealing with a ton of injuries.

The future is bright. The reality of the present is we'll do the best we can.

Let's Go Islanders!


THE RIFLE

Sometimes you're the windshield,
sometimes you're the bug.
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
05:47 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
04:18 PM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
02:30 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
01:25 PM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
12:16 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
11:22 AM
What's worse than a bad team?

Bad fans who have no concept of hockey but claim they do.

:angrier:

Who's that directed at? I'm assuming the people who are not Hilbert fans? Listen, guy plays hard, is responsible defensively but don't you see a difference between a guy like say, Comeau and Hilbert? Comeau has way more upside and it's still up in the air if Comeau can be a consistent top six forward. Where does that leave Hilbert then?

yes ok, hilbert sucks. trade him waive him.
do anything to make you happy.

we will win the cup as soon Hilbert is off this team.

hands of stone yes.

:rofl:


anything I didn't cover?

Now let's all meet in plainview and start a protest to get Tambellini back with the big club.


talk about posts outta left field.
and I am really biting my lip here.

:ph43r:

I can't even argue with you at this point. I don't know what you're talking about. :dontknow:

Posted Image

no worries. nothing makes sense anymore.

next year or the following year, if we have a good 1st line, decent 2nd line and Hilbert is on
the 3rd line but promoted to 2nd line to fill in for an injury while a cement head is called up to fill in on 3rd/4th line for Hilbert...
the Hilbert bashers will complain, why is Trevino or someone else brought up.

If some people haven't comprehended the value of Hilbert on this team by now, they never will. They'll make excuses for him leaving just as much as tehy make excuses for Tambellini staying.



:yes:

Dude, that's fine if you like the guy. I personally think the we are selling ourselves short if we're holding spots for players like andy hilbert. Comeau and even Thompson could develop into just as solid defensively and provide scoring/toughness, which Hilbert will not. Wouldn't you want to see what those guys can do since we pretty much know what we're getting with Hilbert, positive or negative. That's basically all I was saying when questioning his ice time.

Geez - I didn't know not liking Hilbert meant I have no concept about hockey.

sorry, I should check my posts before posting them so no ones feelings are hurt.

feel better dude?

As for me, I take note when a guy like Hilbert, at the end of his lines shift takes a weak shot on goal, pressures the goalie to gain a faceoff so his line can get off the ice in the 2nd period when the bench is a longer skate away.
Fundamentals.
maybe that's just one small example of why coaches love him?

Who knows. On a great team, of COURSE he'd find a niche on the 3rd/4th line "where he belong" and wouldn't be anywhere near the top line or PP time.

But I ask you this, how the heck do you know that for sure?
More key players, making the team better, wouldn't that make Hilbert less dependable and perhaps better if surrounded by more established talent that the opposition has to key on? hmmm?

I still think some fans (maybe not you) just see him stick handle, not make the fancy 1-on-1 moves that Palffy, Turgeon made way back when and ask...why is this trash getting icetime? Tambellini scores goals in the AHL give him a chance, we have other prospects I saw in the Hockey News who had sick numbers in juniors, let them play, get rid of Hilbert, etc.

He's dependable and has great work habits, and until we have guys come up with the same limited icetime, (LIKE the Andy Hilbert who you and everyone else that doesn't get his value berate), he's what a coach like Gordon, like Nolan, like Mike Sullivan in Boston, like Trent Yawney in Chicago and Therrian in Pitt loved to and used in all aspects of the game.

I understand the argument of "let others get icetime, see what happens" and blablabla.
Sorry to state it this way, but, I know my hockey. Deal with it. Take my word for it. You'll feel better.

:P :thumbsup:

Have a great holiday season.

:nosympathy:

:D
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Ozzie307
2nd line
Islander4cups,Dec 10 2008
12:07 AM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
05:47 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
04:18 PM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
02:30 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
01:25 PM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
12:16 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
11:22 AM
What's worse than a bad team?

Bad fans who have no concept of hockey but claim they do.

:angrier:

Who's that directed at? I'm assuming the people who are not Hilbert fans? Listen, guy plays hard, is responsible defensively but don't you see a difference between a guy like say, Comeau and Hilbert? Comeau has way more upside and it's still up in the air if Comeau can be a consistent top six forward. Where does that leave Hilbert then?

yes ok, hilbert sucks. trade him waive him.
do anything to make you happy.

we will win the cup as soon Hilbert is off this team.

hands of stone yes.

:rofl:


anything I didn't cover?

Now let's all meet in plainview and start a protest to get Tambellini back with the big club.


talk about posts outta left field.
and I am really biting my lip here.

:ph43r:

I can't even argue with you at this point. I don't know what you're talking about. :dontknow:

Posted Image

no worries. nothing makes sense anymore.

next year or the following year, if we have a good 1st line, decent 2nd line and Hilbert is on
the 3rd line but promoted to 2nd line to fill in for an injury while a cement head is called up to fill in on 3rd/4th line for Hilbert...
the Hilbert bashers will complain, why is Trevino or someone else brought up.

If some people haven't comprehended the value of Hilbert on this team by now, they never will. They'll make excuses for him leaving just as much as tehy make excuses for Tambellini staying.



:yes:

Dude, that's fine if you like the guy. I personally think the we are selling ourselves short if we're holding spots for players like andy hilbert. Comeau and even Thompson could develop into just as solid defensively and provide scoring/toughness, which Hilbert will not. Wouldn't you want to see what those guys can do since we pretty much know what we're getting with Hilbert, positive or negative. That's basically all I was saying when questioning his ice time.

Geez - I didn't know not liking Hilbert meant I have no concept about hockey.

What we get with Thompson? Really?? R u serious?

What we get with Thompson is a guy who is ok in his own end, throws a few good checks, doesn't have much in the way of speed or stick skills and loses just about every fight he's had. He's Asham without the slapshot, punching ability or extra gear in speed.

You are worried about "selling ourselves short with Hilbert" and suggest Thompson as a replacement? Come on.

There is nothing wrong with Hilbert except that he gets on the PP when he shouldn't and gets on the third line when he's a prototype 4th liner/pk guy on a strong team.

You aren't focusing on the real problem. Hilbert isn't the problem. He isn't even A problem. The problem is we don't have enough talent to make it so he plays where he should play...4th line minutes. We have to press guys like him and Sims into 3rd line minutes when both are at best 4th line players. Last year we did the same with Park. I love Park's hustle, but he's a 3rd liner. We had him on the first line...why? Because we didnt' have legit NHL 1st line talent.

Here's the funny part in this whole thing. Read your last paragraph. Here's my original post:

I think we're seeing the Bates scenario with Hilbert. Guy gets way too much ice time for a fourth liner. His lack of offensive skill is magnified with the extra minutes. He really needs to be a fourth line/penalty killer. Hopefully, if Comeau is healthy, he'll get some of Hilbert's minutes. Seriously, the guy is a fourth liner on a good team, at best. And that's stretching it a bit

Prety similar, right? I think my original post has been forgotten because somehow it's turned into that I want Hilbert shot and hanged in a public square. In someone else's eyes, that post made me a bad fan with no concept of hockey so my subsequent posts have responded to that.

My point with the Thompson thing is more of a 4th line type player fit. I admit that Hilbert does all the little things well. Based on some people's comments, they feel like he's a gifted defensive player. That's fine, I don't see that. People disagree about players all the time. It's OK. In terms of skills, I see Hilbert as a reliable defensive player and that's it. Thompson may not be as reliable as hilbert but he'll provided some toughness and physical play that hilbert cannot, which is suited for a 4th type player. Especially, since Thompson can play center and is pretty good on draws.
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Ozzie, my first post was generalizing about the anti-Hilbert sentiment.
I'm sorry you took it personally.
You make great points but I disagree with you.
Thompson is a center, Andy can play all 3 forward positions.
I see Hilbert as a small piece of the solution here over the next 3 years
as he'll be entering his prime while Thompson is a great hard nosed kid who i'd love
to see centering our 4th line because of his grit.

:dontknow:


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Ozzie307
2nd line
stevedepot,Dec 10 2008
10:40 AM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
05:47 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
04:18 PM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
02:30 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
01:25 PM
Ozzie307,Dec 9 2008
12:16 PM
stevedepot,Dec 9 2008
11:22 AM
What's worse than a bad team?

Bad fans who have no concept of hockey but claim they do.

:angrier:

Who's that directed at? I'm assuming the people who are not Hilbert fans? Listen, guy plays hard, is responsible defensively but don't you see a difference between a guy like say, Comeau and Hilbert? Comeau has way more upside and it's still up in the air if Comeau can be a consistent top six forward. Where does that leave Hilbert then?

yes ok, hilbert sucks. trade him waive him.
do anything to make you happy.

we will win the cup as soon Hilbert is off this team.

hands of stone yes.

:rofl:


anything I didn't cover?

Now let's all meet in plainview and start a protest to get Tambellini back with the big club.


talk about posts outta left field.
and I am really biting my lip here.

:ph43r:

I can't even argue with you at this point. I don't know what you're talking about. :dontknow:

Posted Image

no worries. nothing makes sense anymore.

next year or the following year, if we have a good 1st line, decent 2nd line and Hilbert is on
the 3rd line but promoted to 2nd line to fill in for an injury while a cement head is called up to fill in on 3rd/4th line for Hilbert...
the Hilbert bashers will complain, why is Trevino or someone else brought up.

If some people haven't comprehended the value of Hilbert on this team by now, they never will. They'll make excuses for him leaving just as much as tehy make excuses for Tambellini staying.



:yes:

Dude, that's fine if you like the guy. I personally think the we are selling ourselves short if we're holding spots for players like andy hilbert. Comeau and even Thompson could develop into just as solid defensively and provide scoring/toughness, which Hilbert will not. Wouldn't you want to see what those guys can do since we pretty much know what we're getting with Hilbert, positive or negative. That's basically all I was saying when questioning his ice time.

Geez - I didn't know not liking Hilbert meant I have no concept about hockey.

sorry, I should check my posts before posting them so no ones feelings are hurt.

feel better dude?

As for me, I take note when a guy like Hilbert, at the end of his lines shift takes a weak shot on goal, pressures the goalie to gain a faceoff so his line can get off the ice in the 2nd period when the bench is a longer skate away.
Fundamentals.
maybe that's just one small example of why coaches love him?

Who knows. On a great team, of COURSE he'd find a niche on the 3rd/4th line "where he belong" and wouldn't be anywhere near the top line or PP time.

But I ask you this, how the heck do you know that for sure?
More key players, making the team better, wouldn't that make Hilbert less dependable and perhaps better if surrounded by more established talent that the opposition has to key on? hmmm?

I still think some fans (maybe not you) just see him stick handle, not make the fancy 1-on-1 moves that Palffy, Turgeon made way back when and ask...why is this trash getting icetime? Tambellini scores goals in the AHL give him a chance, we have other prospects I saw in the Hockey News who had sick numbers in juniors, let them play, get rid of Hilbert, etc.

He's dependable and has great work habits, and until we have guys come up with the same limited icetime, (LIKE the Andy Hilbert who you and everyone else that doesn't get his value berate), he's what a coach like Gordon, like Nolan, like Mike Sullivan in Boston, like Trent Yawney in Chicago and Therrian in Pitt loved to and used in all aspects of the game.

I understand the argument of "let others get icetime, see what happens" and blablabla.
Sorry to state it this way, but, I know my hockey. Deal with it. Take my word for it. You'll feel better.

:P :thumbsup:

Have a great holiday season.

:nosympathy:

:D

Steve, you can post what you want to post but you have to be prepared for the consequences. I easily could have started a war when you start making it personal by saying I'm a bad fan. That's not debating an issue. It's attacking my support of the team. Probably not the best thing to say to someone on a board that's full of die-hards. To be honest, I'm tired of this conversation at this point.
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
ozzie, again, sorry you took it personally. It wasn't directed at you or anyone specific.
If anyone needs me I'll be in timeout.

:dontknow:

:bag:
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4CUPZ
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HEAD OF SECURITY
NOBODY PUTS STEVEDEPOT IN THE CORNER
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OlTimeHockey
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Dirty Dancing quote. -1
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

查理斯 · 請死你混蛋
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4CUPZ
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I HAVE A QUOTE THATS A +10
BUT I'M SAVING IT FOR A RAINY DAY B)
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