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It May Be Time...; for a trade
Topic Started: Dec 8 2008, 10:20 PM (1,658 Views)
totallypucked
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puckhead,Dec 10 2008
10:49 AM
totallypucked,Dec 10 2008
10:01 AM
I wouldn't mind keeping around Doug and Billy. As long as they are productive, they are useful in both a leadership and effectiveness perspective. Comrie, Sillinger, and Sim are the vets I would dangle to contending teams at the deadline, none of the defensemen unless someone were to offer something incredible.

Yeah you don't want to offer any of our d-men........since we have one of the worst goals against in the league. Surely we can't part with one of them in a trade.

Numbers begone, I've got lots of faith in our Top 4. And that includes injury boy Martinek.
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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Weight and Guerin should stay. If we can get something good for Witt, then maybe, but then, why offer Witt an early extension if we just trade him?

If Sillinger is going to take a spot from a fire starter, then trade him.

Comrie can go.

All this trade talk is nice, but remember that the Islanders can't start trading wildly. We have to stay above the cap floor, and players like Witt, Comrie, Sillinger, Guerin, and Weight keep us above that floor.

Moving Sim isn't as much of a risk because losing his 1 million either won't affect the team, or can be covered by finding a player on waivers.
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Dr. Generosity
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Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.
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puckhead
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Dr. Generosity,Dec 10 2008
09:19 PM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.

If Guerin and Weight aren't extended to contracts by the deadline, then they're our main trading chips........both are dealable.....even if its just for picks.
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Snowy
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Dr. Generosity,Dec 10 2008
09:19 PM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.

I would rather take a chance and land a diamond in the rough that can help us 5 years from now rather than keep these guys around for a couple of years of leadership. I'm not saying leadership and their instruction isn't important, but talent is what is most important. And the more draft picks you stock up the better your chances are of landing talent. I'm excited about guys like Bailey and Okposo, but they aren't centerpieces to a rebuild. They are a part of a very good core that is in need of a centerpiece. Tavares or Hedman are centerpiece players. Adding a few extra draft picks, maybe even a 1st rounder, would be the smartest thing to do.

And let's not forget about something like this: what if we wind up with the #3 pick and the team at #2 isn't crazy about Tavares. Those extra draft picks then become CRUCIAL to possibly trade up.

People have very nice ideas about keeping these vets around for their mentoring, but it doesn't improve the skill level of the team. Bill Guerin teaching Blake Comeau work ethic isn't going to turn him into a 50 goal scorer.
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Dr. Generosity
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Snowman39,Dec 11 2008
11:48 AM

People have very nice ideas about keeping these vets around for their mentoring, but it doesn't improve the skill level of the team. Bill Guerin teaching Blake Comeau work ethic isn't going to turn him into a 50 goal scorer.

Point well made, but skill's just one component, albeit an important component, of the pro game. Players learn other qualities like determination, perseverence, and grit from the example of effective veteran players. Moreover, vets teach young players about their longtime opponents, and tell them of nuances on the ice (faceoff strategy, working the corners, defense tendencies, etc.) that coaches may overlook.

Good vets (Bert Marshall, Ed Westfall) are remembered for their contributions not only to their teammates, but to a franchise's development. Less impressive ones (Garry Galley, Travis Green) are remembered for setting selfish, divisive, or lackadaisal examples and imparting bad habits to young players.

For me, it boils down to this---we have a decent stable of vets with impressive character and some talent and legs left. If we can resign the better ones, specifically Weight and Guerin, I'd do it. However, there are probably a fair number of decent veteran players available any given offseason, so any of our better vets are probably expendable for a good asset at the deadline. And if we're seriously looking at the top 2 spots in this year's draft, we do what we can to make sure we land there. No question we need guys like Tavares or Hedman.
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Dark Helmet
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Islander4cups,Dec 9 2008
11:56 PM
Mulefan,Dec 9 2008
10:49 PM
Kasperitix,Dec 9 2008
08:55 PM
I would not object to signing Weight and Guerin for another 2.  Guerin has proven to be a great captain, one who at least sticks up for his team.  The addition of Weight has been more than welcomed, especially on the PP. I also hope to keep Sillinger at least 1 more year if he is up for it.  I am hoping that the Isles get Comrie in the lineup and that he returns to form so we can trade his ass at the deadline.  I think if Hilbert continues to do as well as he has he is worth keeping.  Sim we have for another year so I would hold onto him until then, no reason to just dump him for a 5th round pick at best.

I would ask both Weight and Guerin if they would mind being dealt at the deadline for prospects or picks and then resign them at a small raise at the end of the year. They are both the type of players you want the young players exposed to. I'm not sure when Guerin's contract expires though.

I would definetly dump Comrie as well as Sutton. Sutton makes Eric Cairns seem fleet footed. I have never seen a defenseman with such a reach advantage get beat so often.

That is illegal. It is called TAMPERING. You cannot deal a player and have a "wink wink" agreement that he will return as a FA since he would be under contract to the team you just traded him to while you made the "wink wink" agreement. While tough to prove, you know the league would go out of their way to try to prove it if we were involved.

Isn't that what happened with Vinny Prospal last year? correct me if i'm wrong.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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Dark Helmet
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puckhead,Dec 11 2008
09:27 AM
Dr. Generosity,Dec 10 2008
09:19 PM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.

If Guerin and Weight aren't extended to contracts by the deadline, then they're our main trading chips........both are dealable.....even if its just for picks.

That would be nice, but we are too close to the cap floor to be able to deal even one of those guys...MAYBE we'd be able to ship off Weight. That's it though.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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stevedepot
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Dark Helmet,Dec 11 2008
01:01 PM
puckhead,Dec 11 2008
09:27 AM
Dr. Generosity,Dec 10 2008
09:19 PM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.

If Guerin and Weight aren't extended to contracts by the deadline, then they're our main trading chips........both are dealable.....even if its just for picks.

That would be nice, but we are too close to the cap floor to be able to deal even one of those guys...MAYBE we'd be able to ship off Weight. That's it though.

The cap # doesn't stay the same all year from the number we see at the onset.
Each time a player gets called up, the number is recalculated.
As the season wears on, a larger portion of players salaries is already counted on this years cap so we really aren't near the cap floor like many think.

besides, we still have the Yashin and Bates buyout security blanket on the cap.

:lol:
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Dark Helmet
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stevedepot,Dec 11 2008
02:06 PM
Dark Helmet,Dec 11 2008
01:01 PM
puckhead,Dec 11 2008
09:27 AM
Dr. Generosity,Dec 10 2008
09:19 PM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.

If Guerin and Weight aren't extended to contracts by the deadline, then they're our main trading chips........both are dealable.....even if its just for picks.

That would be nice, but we are too close to the cap floor to be able to deal even one of those guys...MAYBE we'd be able to ship off Weight. That's it though.

The cap # doesn't stay the same all year from the number we see at the onset.
Each time a player gets called up, the number is recalculated.
As the season wears on, a larger portion of players salaries is already counted on this years cap so we really aren't near the cap floor like many think.

besides, we still have the Yashin and Bates buyout security blanket on the cap.

:lol:

We're close enough, Steve, to make it difficult.

That's the trick here.

We can't just trade the aging vets for draft picks because we would need a decent cap hit to come in return. That's why I suggested trading guys like Guerin, Witt, Sillinger, with maybe one of our draft picks to get a pretty good player in return.

And YES, Guerin and Weight have great value to a team thats already a contender.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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stevedepot
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Dark Helmet,Dec 11 2008
01:13 PM
stevedepot,Dec 11 2008
02:06 PM
Dark Helmet,Dec 11 2008
01:01 PM
puckhead,Dec 11 2008
09:27 AM
Dr. Generosity,Dec 10 2008
09:19 PM
Tinman31,Dec 10 2008
01:06 AM

Let's not sneeze at third round picks.

I agree in principle with your fish-eyed, realistic look at how things stand, especially with guys who won't be signed to new deals. But guys like Guerin, Weight, and Witt also provide needed stability and leadership, not to mention veteran influence and instruction, and we need to be especially pragmatic about trade offers concerning these sorts of guys when this year's draft is projected to be a bit soft outside of the top dozen picks or so.

If Guerin and Weight aren't extended to contracts by the deadline, then they're our main trading chips........both are dealable.....even if its just for picks.

That would be nice, but we are too close to the cap floor to be able to deal even one of those guys...MAYBE we'd be able to ship off Weight. That's it though.

The cap # doesn't stay the same all year from the number we see at the onset.
Each time a player gets called up, the number is recalculated.
As the season wears on, a larger portion of players salaries is already counted on this years cap so we really aren't near the cap floor like many think.

besides, we still have the Yashin and Bates buyout security blanket on the cap.

:lol:

We're close enough, Steve, to make is difficult.

That's the trick here.

We can't just trade the aging vets for draft picks because we would need a decent cap hit to come in return. That's why I suggested trading guys like Guerin, Witt, Sillinger, with maybe one of our draft picks to get a pretty good player in return.

And YES, Guerin and Weight have great value to a team thats already a contender.

Just checked, currently at just over 48m.
PLENTY of wiggle room to trade away vets for picks (if that were to happen).

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viking
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I would trade witt for two young players to fill up a roster (def + forward etc)
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viking,Dec 13 2008
06:54 PM
I would trade witt for two young players to fill up a roster (def + forward etc)

I'd rather trade him for one scoring forward. Love the guys heart but this team is in trouble considering the situation.

But if we get rid of Witter this year, Garth better be prepared to pick up a stay-at-home d-man with a mean steak in either the draft of free agency. From what i've read, Hedman would be a dream come true.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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viking
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I'd rather trade him for one scoring forward. Love the guys heart but this team is in trouble considering the situation

whatever we can get. young promising forward sounds good
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Islander4cups
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Dark Helmet,Dec 13 2008
06:46 PM
viking,Dec 13 2008
06:54 PM
I would trade witt for two young players to fill up a roster (def + forward etc)

I'd rather trade him for one scoring forward. Love the guys heart but this team is in trouble considering the situation.

But if we get rid of Witter this year, Garth better be prepared to pick up a stay-at-home d-man with a mean steak in either the draft of free agency. From what i've read, Hedman would be a dream come true.

That is why I won't be angry if we don't get the number 1 pick overall. If we get number 2, just as well. Either way we get a stud forward or a number 1 dman for the next decade.
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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I appreciate that Tampa is still worse than us, and they have Vinny, Marty, and last year's #1, but I think what it may be time for is: A NEW SECOND UNIT ON THE PP. No more Hilbert, Park...
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Webb20
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viking,Dec 13 2008
08:54 PM
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I'd rather trade him for one scoring forward. Love the guys heart but this team is in trouble considering the situation

whatever we can get. young promising forward sounds good

You right. Slow and old is no way to build a hockey winner.

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fastymctalent55
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Islander4cups,Dec 13 2008
10:36 PM
Dark Helmet,Dec 13 2008
06:46 PM
viking,Dec 13 2008
06:54 PM
I would trade witt for two young players to fill up a roster (def + forward etc)

I'd rather trade him for one scoring forward. Love the guys heart but this team is in trouble considering the situation.

But if we get rid of Witter this year, Garth better be prepared to pick up a stay-at-home d-man with a mean steak in either the draft of free agency. From what i've read, Hedman would be a dream come true.

That is why I won't be angry if we don't get the number 1 pick overall. If we get number 2, just as well. Either way we get a stud forward or a number 1 dman for the next decade.

Definitely 1 or 2 is perfectly fine.
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IslanderQueen
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I'm not good at this keep wiping the board clean till it works....

we get rid of one then the other then the one we had doesnt fit with the new one then after next year we fire gordon and it goes on and on and on...
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tsharaf
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IslanderQueen,Dec 14 2008
12:06 PM
I'm not good at this keep wiping the board clean till it works....

we get rid of one then the other then the one we had doesnt fit with the new one then after next year we fire gordon and it goes on and on and on...

Its a viscious cycle, isn't it?







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