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THE KIDS; THE KIDS
Topic Started: Dec 11 2008, 10:22 PM (1,235 Views)
fastymctalent55
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If the rebuild works there'll probably be about 25% of these players on a team that can compete at a high level (maybe less). So I wouldn't be too concerned about a lack of fire you see on the ice right now.
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John Tavares does it all...
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25yearfan
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You can call me Joe.
BSutter21,Dec 12 2008
02:36 PM
...

I thought Garth chose the new 'head coach', going with the young teacher guy who would have been more patient with the rebuild and young players than an experienced high priced guy who may not have been on board with rebuild.
...

A couple of things on the "teaching" aspect.

1. Guess some old dogs need to be taught some new tricks. Like covering guys who know how to score. No, chasing them with your mouth open (awestruck or sucking for air) does not count as covering.

2. Here's a great teaching tool: Take the video from last night's game, make everyone directly responsible (ok, everyone) write on the chalkboard 100x -- we will not do *that* again.

3. Looks like M. Satan must have been taught a lot in a short time, based on his performance last night.


Water under the bridge. Bring on the next game. We're going to put that one behind us, and come out hard for Carolina, etc....


I am considering a new slogan for this season:

Vento ergo sum.

(OK, Latin buffs - please don't tell bring up the actual meaning of "vento" I'm invoking the "message board rule").
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

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Dr. Generosity
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Put the Cup Back in Our Lobby Where It Belongs
I'm wearing my Isles jersey at work today, and I just want to say, I'm proud to be an Islanders fan today.

Yes, we lost big. Who cares? Tampa beat Montreal last night, we gain a bit in the franchise player draft sweepstakes . . . and as for the winning team in last night's Islanders game, Pittsburgh still has to wear that ridiculous cartoon bird on their sweaters for the rest of their days.

Yes, we could go back to a $50M payroll and some more veteran free agents for "respectability." It will get us another first round playoff loss. If we're lucky.
Anyone who wants more of that kind of team is welcome to my game tapes from this mediocre decade of hockey.

We're on our way to getting a legit franchise skater back in the organization.
Either a forward or a defender. Patience.
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New York Islanders, anagram: Rink leaders, Snowy!
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fastymctalent55
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Anyone who wants more of that kind of team is welcome to my game tapes from this mediocre decade of hockey


You can't give em away!
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JimC1972
Isles fan since 1972
3POTI,Dec 11 2008
10:28 PM
http://islanders.nhl.com/team/app?service=...ers&type=roster



GET RID OF THE VETS NOW AND GO WITH THE BRIDGEPORT SOUNDTIGERS


if we're going to lose like crap, go all out and assure yourselves of the #1 pick

say goodbye to guerin, weight, sillinger, witt, comrie etc...

say hello to these guys:

http://www.soundtigers.com/player

As old as Weight is, he's been one of our best players. Get rid of Comrie, Guerin, Sillinger. Witt, I'd like to keep. Bring up Joensuu!
If you see someone down on the ground, you lend them a hand. Unless they're a Rangers fan, then you kick them in the face.
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Islander4cups
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In Garth I Trust
Dr. Generosity,Dec 12 2008
02:42 PM
I'm wearing my Isles jersey at work today, and I just want to say, I'm proud to be an Islanders fan today.

Yes, we lost big. Who cares? Tampa beat Montreal last night, we gain a bit in the franchise player draft sweepstakes . . . and as for the winning team in last night's Islanders game, Pittsburgh still has to wear that ridiculous cartoon bird on their sweaters for the rest of their days.

Yes, we could go back to a $50M payroll and some more veteran free agents for "respectability." It will get us another first round playoff loss. If we're lucky.
Anyone who wants more of that kind of team is welcome to my game tapes from this mediocre decade of hockey.

We're on our way to getting a legit franchise skater back in the organization.
Either a forward or a defender. Patience.

Agreed. These calls to "bring up more kids" are unfounded...at least at this point of the season.

Its getting funny because we had some people weeks earlier complaining that "our kids weren't good enough" and we should get FA's.

Now, "dump the vets" and bring up more kids.


Just what did everyone expect this Islanders team was going to be? Who honestly came into this season thinking our kids were going to be excellent, our vets would be saiges and we'd be competing for a playoff spot?


This is what happens with a rebuild, people. I know because I lived through the first one from 72-75 and I know a bunch of us here did. I've seen WAshington go through it from 02-07. Pitt did too. Detroit did it for two decades 70's & 80's. We have been since 93.

I'm honestly surprised at the level of...well...surprise about how this team is playing. We didn't make any upgrades on defense. We got a good PP QB in STreit and he's been a surprise on the blueline compared to what everyone in Montreal said about his abilities, but he's hardly a number 1 or 2 dman. We don't have one of those.

We didn't "upgrade" significantly on offense. Yes, Bailey looks good, but he;s a kids with a long way to go. Same with Kyle O. Weight has exceeded expectations and so has Hunter (finally), but we still don't have any first line talent on this team.

And isn't it funny that with a team of skaters very similar to last years' bunch we are significantly lower in the standings than we were at this time last year. What is missing? It isn't Miro or Tank. Without DiPietro covering the warts of the team, we see what we really are...and that is in no way a shot at MacDonald. In fact, Joey D for the month of Nov did what DP did for the first half last year...covered up the fact that our D was below avg and our offense wasn't even that. But now we've run MacD into the ground starting 20 of 21 games... and don't the results lately resemble what happened when DP got hurt last year??

This team is going to have its ups and downs....more downs than ups. The last ten days have definitely been a downer...not so much the losing but the unispired drubbings they've taken. That must change. But just 3 weeks ago so many were thrilled with what we saw as far as the effort and results when MacD was on a hot streak.


If people didn't see this type of season coming...I'm surprised. And I could care less about what the management "expected" in their comments. Of course they "expect" to compete...they also expect to sell tickets.
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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lynskyn12
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Surprised nobody mention it....but Josh Bailey was God awful last night. He was the worst among a team that was pathetic. I know he is only a kid but he was brutal bad last night. Not singling him out its just everyone has such high hopes. I hope he turns out like everyone thinks he will.
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stevedepot
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Islander4cups,Dec 12 2008
04:30 PM
And I could care less about what the management "expected" in their comments. Of course they "expect" to compete...they also expect to sell tickets.

Uh, yeah.
Of course they said they "expected" to be competitive, in order to SELL tickets.
That's why we're bashing them.
We know all about the rest.

:goofy2:
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Dr. Generosity
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lynskyn12,Dec 12 2008
04:37 PM
Surprised nobody mention it....but Josh Bailey was God awful last night. He was the worst among a team that was pathetic. I know he is only a kid but he was brutal bad last night. Not singling him out its just everyone has such high hopes. I hope he turns out like everyone thinks he will.

Bailey got an assist on the Isles' second goal; he was part of the play that resulted in Sutton's improbable goal. (Of course all goals by Sutton are improbable.) Also finished the game at -1. Admittedly, +/- is an imperfect measuring stick, but hey, still . . .
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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Anyone surprised that the team is in a slump for the second time this season had disillusioned expectations of the rebuild. Kind of like last season when we picked up a bunch of middle tier FAs, and people were surprised that we dropped so far in the standings. More kids won't make the team better. More vets will be more of the last few years. I know it hurts to watch the team give up hat tricks to other middle tier players like Dupuis, but let the growing pains happen.

I think last night's game showed why Joey Mac can't be our starter. DP has had his share of downs, but he is still a better goaltender, and a true #1, unlike Joey. Not to knock Joey Mac for his run in November, but have to be realistic.

The losses of Nielsen and KO are tangible now. We need them back in the lineup. Not that they were lighting the lamp like crazy, but they brought a spark to the ice, especially Nielsen for all his faults.

I think Go-Go needs to do something about the defense strategy. It is possible that the players are to blame for not following Overspeed, but it could be a flaw in the system at the NHL. I don't believe that it is always "the players didn't play the system, so we didn't win" is a viable excuse. Seems to shift all of the blame. I like Overspeed, but it needs some Defensive Chops. I capitalized that so in case Go-Go reads this message board, and he does something with the defense, he can use the name I gave it.
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wessa
AHL Callup
i would love to see i line with only kids. They are faster, good stickhandlers, and are willing to take chances offensively. Bailey, Kyle, tambellini (give him one more chance, now he can play with uptempo players). I just don't like taking these kids and playing them with guys like guerin or comrie who slow the play down completely.
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Islander4cups
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wessa,Dec 12 2008
07:29 PM
i would love to see i line with only kids. They are faster, good stickhandlers, and are willing to take chances offensively. Bailey, Kyle, tambellini (give him one more chance, now he can play with uptempo players). I just don't like taking these kids and playing them with guys like guerin or comrie who slow the play down completely.

No offense, but putting Tamby with KO and Bailey??? Ytf would you do that to KO and Bailey. Tamby's problem isn't that he's playing with non "up tempo" players. He's play 35 feet from the goal. That is the problem.

I'd say if you want a "kid line" put KO, Comeau and Bailey together and leave them alone for a month...see what happens.

By that time, Tamby will be proving he doesn't belong in the nhl....again.
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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Snowy
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The Dark Knight
Two things:

1. Gordon was hired for the long-haul. CB had a piece today saying that Gordon will be back next season 100% no matter what happens. I'm going to take it a step further. I think he will be back two years from now no matter what happens. I happen to think its possible for his system to work as long as he has the right players. They seem to be drafting these types of players and by the time these guys from Bridgeport are ready to come up they will already be familiar with the system.

2. Joensuu isn't ready. The guy is as raw as they come. I wouldn't mind giving him a look toward the end of the season but he is the exact type of player you want to leave in Bridgeport to develop. Give him lots of icetime down there. Blake Comeau is a lot more polished than anybody he was playing with down there and that's why he deserves to be here. Other than Trevor Smith I doubt there's anybody down there who will really make an impact, including Iggulden.
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UpIn301
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I'm not so sure why everyone is so quick to dump Weight, Guerin, Silly and Witt. While we are trying to build from within and bring up the kids, you can't have an entire roster of kids and expect them to develop into a cohesive and mature team without a few oldies to show the way. Guerin especially was signed as a leader and as a captain. He is there to show these kids how to play in the NHL. Same goes for Weight, Silly and Witt. They aren't overpaid superstar divas, all of them are hard working relatively selfless players who provide a good example for the younger guys to emulate. Their leadership is vital to a team that is bringing up a bunch of younkers. The coaches can't teach on the ice during the games, these guys can and they do.

Might we look to get some draft picks at the trade deadline for a couple of them, yes, but I don't know why everyone is picking on these guys.

Pick on Comrie? Fine, while I admit he has been injured, he just hasn't shown the fire, desire, drive, whatever. But if we end up trading the others, I will thank them for their efforts and respect the work they did and wish them well, and be sad to see them go.
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Tinman31
Right On Time.
The thing with Weight and Guerin, Witt and Sillinger....

IF/WHEN we get real good these guys will be done. We will have to re-group and have different veterans. Richard Park can hang around, but we don't have many of the "middle" guys. We have a ton of young guys or six or seven gusy that by 2011 won't even be in the league.

With baseball you have to remember HOW many veterans were on a team like Tampa Bay in years past but those guys come and go because it takes years to be real good.
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Snowy
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Keeping those guys around is a LUXURY. Bill Guerin isn't going to teach any kid how to score 40 goals. No matter how much a veteran teaches you, in the end you need TALENT. To get talent, you need to DRAFT it. And the more draft picks you stock up on, the better your chance is. I will trade any of those veterans if it meant picking up many extra picks, possibly even a 1st rounder. If Weight is on pace for 80 or 90 points and Guerin is on pace for a 35 goal year, they could definitely command a 1st round pick. Look at prior trade deadlines. A guy like Sillinger could maybe get a 2nd rounder if he's having a real good year. Draft picks are much more important to this organization than having Bill Guerin teach Blake Comeau anything.
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bumpkin
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fastymctalent55,Dec 12 2008
11:45 AM
bumpkin,Dec 12 2008
10:50 AM
fastymctalent55,Dec 12 2008
10:28 AM
It's a rebuilding process!  This is what happens.

What did we think rebuilding meant?

It HAS been a rebuilding process for quite some time. Can you tell me when it will be completed?
The Drive for Five is now officially the Drive to Survive!

Really? Has it?

Can you tell me when it started?

Was it when they traded for Trevor Linden?

Was it when they traded for Wendel Clark?

Was it when they traded for Kirk Muller?

Was it when they traded for Alexei Yashin and Mike Peca?

Was it when they signed John Sim?

Was it when they traded for Ryan Smyth?

Was it when they signed Bill Guerin and Mike Comie?

Was it when they signed Doug Weight?

This team hasn't seen a day of rebuilding until this season.

Once they dump Weight, Comrie and Guerin it will happen in earnest.

Signing and trading for veterans isn't part of a rebuild.

Just because this team has been mediocre for a long time and hasn't won a cup since before many people on this message board were born doesn't mean they've been rebuilding since 1984.

This team has never attempted a true rebuild until this season which is why they've been stuck in this terrible middle ground forever.

There is no such thing as a total rebuild with an existing team. Dumping the whole roster is foolish, other posters have pointed out that we already have the best players in the Isles System up with the big club. Without two of the three guys you mention getting rid of, I doubt we qualify as an NHL team. The Yankees are rebuilding, bringing in players younger and better pitchers than what they had last year.
Dumping Weight so Tamby can get first line minutes makes no sense at all. I think we have an extra center(or two) as a bargaining chip, but the myopia is keeping Bailey here when he should be elsewhere. I do not want to see him as the face of the Isles 5 years from now if he has aged prematurely from all of the losing. I could see moving Witt at the deadline, but with our injury history we need to wait until then. Some of our D is barely NHL quality as it is.
The inconsisent nature of ownership here, Wang included, is why we have not won in so long. Who did we sign the next year after Yashin and Peca? Or who came up through the system and took us to the next level the next year? Even when we just missed the finals in the 93, there was no next step before the next year began.
You have had too much Kool Aid if this year is a true rebuild to you. A different approach, yes. It needs to be followed up for the next several years CONSISTENTLY for it to qualify as a rebuild.
Where in the World is Sebastian Collberg?
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wessa
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Islander4cups,Dec 12 2008
10:02 PM
wessa,Dec 12 2008
07:29 PM
i would love to see i line with only kids.  They are faster, good stickhandlers, and are willing to take chances offensively.  Bailey, Kyle, tambellini (give him one more chance, now he can play with uptempo players).  I just don't like taking these kids and playing them with guys like guerin or comrie who slow the play down completely.

No offense, but putting Tamby with KO and Bailey??? Ytf would you do that to KO and Bailey. Tamby's problem isn't that he's playing with non "up tempo" players. He's play 35 feet from the goal. That is the problem.

I'd say if you want a "kid line" put KO, Comeau and Bailey together and leave them alone for a month...see what happens.

By that time, Tamby will be proving he doesn't belong in the nhl....again.

totally agree, i had a mind lapse and forgot about comeau, i only put tamby cause i thought he was the only guy in bridge who is really ready for the nhl (and even that remains to be seen)
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tsharaf
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Snowman39,Dec 13 2008
01:58 AM
Keeping those guys around is a LUXURY. Bill Guerin isn't going to teach any kid how to score 40 goals. No matter how much a veteran teaches you, in the end you need TALENT. To get talent, you need to DRAFT it. And the more draft picks you stock up on, the better your chance is. I will trade any of those veterans if it meant picking up many extra picks, possibly even a 1st rounder. If Weight is on pace for 80 or 90 points and Guerin is on pace for a 35 goal year, they could definitely command a 1st round pick. Look at prior trade deadlines. A guy like Sillinger could maybe get a 2nd rounder if he's having a real good year. Draft picks are much more important to this organization than having Bill Guerin teach Blake Comeau anything.

Right on target as usual, Snowy. :thumbsup:
The Boss - The Greatest Goal Scorer Ever
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Islander4cups
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While I won't be heartbroken if we move vets like Weight, Silly, Guerin and Witt and martinek at the deadline, it has to be done then...at the deadline.

Players of their ilk don't have the value in December that they will at the deadline. Teams looking to make a run will have an idea of what they need and will pay bigger than in Dec. if they can target a guy who fills their needs.

Witt would be a great fit in Pitt who need a stay at home Dman who can clear the crease, win battles in corners and can protect Sidney Crosby and Malkin...plus he wouldn't be hitting those two guys anymore.

Guerin still has a good run in the playoffs left in him if you need a 2nd or 3rd line winger to add depth to your offense. Weight has shown he's easily a good second line option with something left in the tank.

If Silly shows no ill effects from the layoff and injury, who wouldn't pay a second round pick for a top faceoff man in the playoffs?

And the other issue is, Guerin, Weight, Silly are all in their walk year. I would expect that resigning them would take a 2 year deal and do we really want 40 year olds on the roster in two years?

If they are healthy, those 4 players WILL have trade value come the deadline this year, whereas last year Miro and Tank had none. Think about it. Would you rather trade for last year's version of Miro and Tank or this year's version of Weight, Silly, Guerin or Witt?

They will have value. It will open up roster spots for the last 2 months so management can look at kids on Bridgeport for an extended period (even though some claim that isn't enough time to get a sense of what Tamby can do...it is).

Plus, as hard as it is for some to hear, it will improve our probability in draft position. Not just for round one but all the rounds. We will be far enough out of the playoffs by the deadline that there will be many calls to "end the season" come the deadline. All the Isles will be playing for from Feb-April is draft position. And we need to make every pick count. We still don't have a real 1-3 Defensemen on this team or at Bridgeport. That is three holes that need to be addressed right there. We don't have ANY first line talent. That is another 3 roster spots that need to be addressed.

That is 6 gaping holes that need to be filled and at least 4 have to be done via the draft.

Get the most value for these guys...that will be at the deadline and not before.
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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