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THE KIDS; THE KIDS
Topic Started: Dec 11 2008, 10:22 PM (1,234 Views)
UpIn301
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STH since Day 1
Snowman39,Dec 13 2008
02:58 AM
Keeping those guys around is a LUXURY.  Bill Guerin isn't going to teach any kid how to score 40 goals.  No matter how much a veteran teaches you, in the end you need TALENT.  To get talent, you need to DRAFT it.  And the more draft picks you stock up on, the better your chance is.  I will trade any of those veterans if it meant picking up many extra picks, possibly even a 1st rounder.  If Weight is on pace for 80 or 90 points and Guerin is on pace for a 35 goal year, they could definitely command a 1st round pick.  Look at prior trade deadlines.  A guy like Sillinger could maybe get a 2nd rounder if he's having a real good year.  Draft picks are much more important to this organization than having Bill Guerin teach Blake Comeau anything.

I have to disagree. These guys are not a luxury, but a necessity. No Guerin isn't going to teach someone to score 40 goals, neither would Wayne Gretzky, no one is going to teach that, it requires talent. Do we have that talent? Not yet.

Guerin etc are the maturity to temper and shape the kids, and that position also requires consistency. You can't bring in a different old guy each year, you have some good ones, keep them around.

Yes, they won't be here when we finally get good, but they are part of the building process.
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tsharaf
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Islander4cups,Dec 13 2008
10:32 AM
If they are healthy, those 4 players WILL have trade value come the deadline this year, whereas last year Miro and Tank had none.  Think about it.  Would you rather trade for last year's version of Miro and Tank or this year's version of Weight, Silly, Guerin or Witt?

They will have value.  It will open up roster spots for the last 2 months so management can look at kids on Bridgeport for an extended period (even though some claim that isn't enough time to get a sense of what Tamby can do...it is).

Plus, as hard as it is for some to hear, it will improve our probability in draft position.  Not just for round one but all the rounds.  We will be far enough out of the playoffs by the deadline that there will be many calls to "end the season" come the deadline.  All the Isles will be playing for from Feb-April is draft position.  And we need to make every pick count.  We still don't have a real 1-3 Defensemen on this team or at Bridgeport.  That is three holes that need to be addressed right there.  We don't have ANY first line talent.  That is another 3 roster spots that need to be addressed.

That is 6 gaping holes that need to be filled and at least 4 have to be done via the draft.

Get the most value for these guys...that will be at the deadline and not before.

No one can deny they have more options this year than last. Its a stronger position to be in. Also, don't forget Comrie, at a young 28, can also be a trading chip as a 2nd or 3rd center for a contender. I agree, there value is maxed out at the deadline.

You could include Tamellini and/or Gervais as extras in a trade if necesary as well. But, there are plenty of holes to fill and last year's draft is only a start. It may mean another season like this next year, too. While for the long haul it may be good, I must say this is tough to take.
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ronski631
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A New Hope

TSN reviews Isles top prospects. This was a good read and makes me look forward to seeing Trivino playing on the island
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bumpkin
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tsharaf,Dec 13 2008
10:59 AM
Islander4cups,Dec 13 2008
10:32 AM
If they are healthy, those 4 players WILL have trade value come the deadline this year, whereas last year Miro and Tank had none.  Think about it.  Would you rather trade for last year's version of Miro and Tank or this year's version of Weight, Silly, Guerin or Witt?

They will have value.  It will open up roster spots for the last 2 months so management can look at kids on Bridgeport for an extended period (even though some claim that isn't enough time to get a sense of what Tamby can do...it is).

Plus, as hard as it is for some to hear, it will improve our probability in draft position.  Not just for round one but all the rounds.  We will be far enough out of the playoffs by the deadline that there will be many calls to "end the season" come the deadline.  All the Isles will be playing for from Feb-April is draft position.  And we need to make every pick count.  We still don't have a real 1-3 Defensemen on this team or at Bridgeport.  That is three holes that need to be addressed right there.  We don't have ANY first line talent.  That is another 3 roster spots that need to be addressed.

That is 6 gaping holes that need to be filled and at least 4 have to be done via the draft.

Get the most value for these guys...that will be at the deadline and not before.

No one can deny they have more options this year than last. Its a stronger position to be in. Also, don't forget Comrie, at a young 28, can also be a trading chip as a 2nd or 3rd center for a contender. I agree, there value is maxed out at the deadline.

You could include Tamellini and/or Gervais as extras in a trade if necesary as well. But, there are plenty of holes to fill and last year's draft is only a start. It may mean another season like this next year, too. While for the long haul it may be good, I must say this is tough to take.

Tambellini has zero trade value. We would get less in return if we foisted him an someone else. Maybe we could pick up another AHL stud in return for him-he is not unique in his inability to move up.
Where in the World is Sebastian Collberg?
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puckhead
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tsharaf,Dec 13 2008
10:59 AM
Islander4cups,Dec 13 2008
10:32 AM
If they are healthy, those 4 players WILL have trade value come the deadline this year, whereas last year Miro and Tank had none.  Think about it.  Would you rather trade for last year's version of Miro and Tank or this year's version of Weight, Silly, Guerin or Witt?

They will have value.  It will open up roster spots for the last 2 months so management can look at kids on Bridgeport for an extended period (even though some claim that isn't enough time to get a sense of what Tamby can do...it is).

Plus, as hard as it is for some to hear, it will improve our probability in draft position.  Not just for round one but all the rounds.  We will be far enough out of the playoffs by the deadline that there will be many calls to "end the season" come the deadline.  All the Isles will be playing for from Feb-April is draft position.  And we need to make every pick count.  We still don't have a real 1-3 Defensemen on this team or at Bridgeport.  That is three holes that need to be addressed right there.  We don't have ANY first line talent.  That is another 3 roster spots that need to be addressed.

That is 6 gaping holes that need to be filled and at least 4 have to be done via the draft.

Get the most value for these guys...that will be at the deadline and not before.

No one can deny they have more options this year than last. Its a stronger position to be in. Also, don't forget Comrie, at a young 28, can also be a trading chip as a 2nd or 3rd center for a contender. I agree, there value is maxed out at the deadline.

You could include Tamellini and/or Gervais as extras in a trade if necesary as well. But, there are plenty of holes to fill and last year's draft is only a start. It may mean another season like this next year, too. While for the long haul it may be good, I must say this is tough to take.

Don't hold your breath.

We aint likely getting anything significant for Comrie, Weight or Guerin. Only mid level picks in all likelihood. Other teams aint gonna be bangin down the door for them......let's face it.

They're dealable......but don't expect significant players coming back
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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Speaking of the kids, the Isles scored at the Craps game with a PP unit of Guerin, Park, Weight, Streit, and Hunter (I think)... way too old. I am curious what the kids minutes have been in this slump. If the team is slumping there is no reason to not play the kids a lot. What is worst they can do? Lose?

Thinking about Joey Mac, play Danis for a games--let Joey rest. The worst Danis can do is lose, and the Islanders don't seem to be getting out of this slump any time soon.
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LEDZEP
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 16 2008
08:51 PM
Speaking of the kids, the Isles scored at the Craps game with a PP unit of Guerin, Park, Weight, Streit, and Hunter (I think)... way too old. I am curious what the kids minutes have been in this slump. If the team is slumping there is no reason to not play the kids a lot. What is worst they can do? Lose?

Thinking about Joey Mac, play Danis for a games--let Joey rest. The worst Danis can do is lose, and the Islanders don't seem to be getting out of this slump any time soon.

Guerin, Park, Weight, Streit, and Hunter should be released
so more KiDs can take there spot on the roster.

Then in 3 years when this experiment fails

JUST DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN :punk: :punk: :punk: :punk:
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must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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:dontknow:
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Islander4cups
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 16 2008
07:59 PM
:dontknow:

we often have that reaction to zep just a j/k zep hope all is well w/ ya
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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LEDZEP
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Islander4cups,Dec 16 2008
09:15 PM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 16 2008
07:59 PM
:dontknow:

we often have that reaction to zep just a j/k zep hope all is well w/ ya

Just the truth :thumbsup:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
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Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Bexlyspeed
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bexlyspeed- 3rd round draft pick
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity. most of the prospects are predicted as 3rd and 4th line players and 5th 6th or 7th defencemen. yeah Baily "might" be good, this guy "might" be great another guy "Might" score 50 goals. how tambellini doing? Nolan was fired for not playing him and now they can not get him out of town fast enough, we was supposed to tear the NHL up wasnt he? this team needs an experienced GM that has an eye for talent. which we honestly have not had since Torrey. say what you want about Milbury he made some terrible no Horrible trades, but the Islanders drafted some really good players under him, too bad he didnt have the patience to let them stay here.
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bumpkin
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 16 2008
07:51 PM
Speaking of the kids, the Isles scored at the Craps game with a PP unit of Guerin, Park, Weight, Streit, and Hunter (I think)... way too old. I am curious what the kids minutes have been in this slump. If the team is slumping there is no reason to not play the kids a lot. What is worst they can do? Lose?

Thinking about Joey Mac, play Danis for a games--let Joey rest. The worst Danis can do is lose, and the Islanders don't seem to be getting out of this slump any time soon.

You have to play the players with the best chance of scoring. Those guys(especially Weight and Streit) are our go to guys. Guerin is our best goal scorer with Tamby in Bridgeport.
This is the NHL, we do have to TRY to compete.
Where in the World is Sebastian Collberg?
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Webb20
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I think our PP has been our best asset this season. Maybe it's because these guys are more comfortable in the PP setup, slow puck movement, and control, than say, at even strength when we are trying to create chaos with speed.

:dontknow:
I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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Islander4cups
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Bexlyspeed,Dec 17 2008
09:17 AM
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity. most of the prospects are predicted as 3rd and 4th line players and 5th 6th or 7th defencemen. yeah Baily "might" be good, this guy "might" be great another guy "Might" score 50 goals. how tambellini doing? Nolan was fired for not playing him and now they can not get him out of town fast enough, we was supposed to tear the NHL up wasnt he? this team needs an experienced GM that has an eye for talent. which we honestly have not had since Torrey. say what you want about Milbury he made some terrible no Horrible trades, but the Islanders drafted some really good players under him, too bad he didnt have the patience to let them stay here.

Are you essentially doing the same thing MM did? Tambellini aside, going on about how Bailey "might" be good...

every player drafted "might" be good. We will know in a few years how he turns out. Same with Kyle O and Comeau who are probably our three best prospects.

When you take over a kitchen with bare cupboards, the first thing you have to do is fill them before you can cook.

That is what Snow is attempting to do right now. Last I checked, Pitt, Chicago and Washington did not fill their kitchen shelves overnight nor in 2 years.
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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Dark Helmet
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Bexlyspeed,Dec 17 2008
10:17 AM
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity. most of the prospects are predicted as 3rd and 4th line players and 5th 6th or 7th defencemen. yeah Baily "might" be good, this guy "might" be great another guy "Might" score 50 goals. how tambellini doing? Nolan was fired for not playing him and now they can not get him out of town fast enough, we was supposed to tear the NHL up wasnt he? this team needs an experienced GM that has an eye for talent. which we honestly have not had since Torrey. say what you want about Milbury he made some terrible no Horrible trades, but the Islanders drafted some really good players under him, too bad he didnt have the patience to let them stay here.

Nolan was fired because he wasn't prepared to endure the "build from the draft" plan, in my opinion. Not playing Tambellini was just an example that he wasn't on board any longer. Garth probably told Ted his plan, and Ted probably wasn't willing to wait it out and sit through the tough times ahead. Where is Ted working now?
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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Bexlyspeed
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bexlyspeed- 3rd round draft pick
Dark Helmet,Dec 17 2008
12:48 PM
Bexlyspeed,Dec 17 2008
10:17 AM
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity. most of the prospects are predicted as 3rd and 4th line players and 5th 6th or 7th defencemen. yeah Baily "might" be good, this guy "might" be great another guy "Might" score 50 goals. how tambellini doing? Nolan was fired for not playing him and now they can not get him out of town fast enough, we was supposed to tear the NHL up wasnt he? this team needs an experienced GM that has an eye for talent. which we honestly have not had since Torrey. say what you want about Milbury he made some terrible no Horrible trades, but the Islanders drafted some really good players under him, too bad he didnt have the patience to let them stay here.

Nolan was fired because he wasn't prepared to endure the "build from the draft" plan, in my opinion. Not playing Tambellini was just an example that he wasn't on board any longer. Garth probably told Ted his plan, and Ted probably wasn't willing to wait it out and sit through the tough times ahead. Where is Ted working now?

perhaps he just knew then hat everyone knows now, that Tambellini doesnt have what it takes. but no Garth's word is law it must have been all Nolans fault

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Bexlyspeed
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bexlyspeed- 3rd round draft pick
Islander4cups,Dec 17 2008
12:25 PM
Bexlyspeed,Dec 17 2008
09:17 AM
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity. most of the prospects are predicted as 3rd and 4th line players and 5th 6th or 7th defencemen. yeah Baily "might" be good, this guy "might" be great another guy "Might" score 50 goals. how tambellini doing? Nolan was fired for not playing him and now they can not get him out of town fast enough, we was supposed to tear the NHL up wasnt he? this team needs an experienced GM that has an eye for talent. which we honestly have not had since Torrey. say what you want about Milbury he made some terrible no Horrible trades, but the Islanders drafted some really good players under him, too bad he didnt have the patience to let them stay here.

Are you essentially doing the same thing MM did? Tambellini aside, going on about how Bailey "might" be good...

every player drafted "might" be good. We will know in a few years how he turns out. Same with Kyle O and Comeau who are probably our three best prospects.

When you take over a kitchen with bare cupboards, the first thing you have to do is fill them before you can cook.

That is what Snow is attempting to do right now. Last I checked, Pitt, Chicago and Washington did not fill their kitchen shelves overnight nor in 2 years.

Pittsburgh first of all won the sydney crosby lottery and secondly drafted their #1 picks instead of trading down for possibilities. the caps did the same and you could tell that Ovechkin was the real deal even when the caps were losing. its not the same and if you look at the situation without garth snow colored glasses you can see that we are not in the position of the pens and caps of a few years ago we are far worse
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LEDZEP
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Islander4cups,Dec 17 2008
01:25 PM
Bexlyspeed,Dec 17 2008
09:17 AM
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity. most of the prospects are predicted as 3rd and 4th line players and 5th 6th or 7th defencemen. yeah Baily "might" be good, this guy "might" be great another guy "Might" score 50 goals. how tambellini doing? Nolan was fired for not playing him and now they can not get him out of town fast enough, we was supposed to tear the NHL up wasnt he? this team needs an experienced GM that has an eye for talent. which we honestly have not had since Torrey. say what you want about Milbury he made some terrible no Horrible trades, but the Islanders drafted some really good players under him, too bad he didnt have the patience to let them stay here.

every player drafted "might" be good. We will know in a few years how he turns out. Same with Kyle O and Comeau who are probably our three best prospects.

Between 1975 and 1984 you new in a few games who were quality players
not a few years :isles:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
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"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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"bexlyspeed"
 
Pittsburgh first of all won the sydney crosby lottery and secondly drafted their #1 picks instead of trading down for possibilities. the caps did the same and you could tell that Ovechkin was the real deal even when the caps were losing. its not the same and if you look at the situation without garth snow colored glasses you can see that we are not in the position of the pens and caps of a few years ago we are far worse


What number 1 pick did Garth trade down? The difference between picking 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, and picking 5 once is huge. Garth hasn't traded down from the NUMBER ONE pick of the draft.

"bexlyspeed"
 
I'm sorry but i have to say it, this team will never seriously compete for the cup with the current team in place. Snow does not know how to do anything, he has gotten the team the scraps of the Free Agent market, has yet to pull of a trade that brought us a solid player for the long term and passed on quality at the draft for quantity


Scraps? Streit and Weight are not scraps. Both are playing well. Snow has not pulled off a very worthwhile trade, but he did well with the Smyth trade. I wasn't happy with the results, but I give Garth credit for pulling off such a trade. But let's remember, that was prior to the rebuild.

What is with the love train for Nolan? He's coached FOUR NHL seasons. He has won ZERO cups. He is currently coaching NOWHERE while earning his last Islander paychecks. If this guy was so legit, he wouldn't have had an eight year gap between jobs. Take Nolan's hockey stick out from the back of your throat. I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, and hasn't accomplished anything, but put it in perspective, and quit living a fantasy that Nolan was the last bit of real hockey on the Islanders.
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LEDZEP
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Streit and Weight are scraps :doggy:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
Posted Image
Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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