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Goals Against, measuring stick?; After 30 games, 110 goals against
Topic Started: Dec 15 2008, 03:35 AM (769 Views)
stevedepot
Member Avatar
WISENHEIMER
nyifancentral,Dec 18 2008
10:56 AM
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
09:02 AM
nyifancentral,Dec 18 2008
03:54 AM
Webb20,Dec 16 2008
08:44 AM
I just hope Gordon's "Overspeed" system isnt the Jeff Tambellini of hockey systems.   Great on the AHL level but cant cut it on the NHL level.   Those 3rd period breakdowns could be a result of playing NHL caliber teams and them adjusting to an aggressive forecheck after 2 periods unlike the inability of an AHL team making the same adjustments.   In the AHL that lead is held, team wins 55 games, in the NHL that lead is lost because of better talent, better coaching and better adjusting up in the big leagues.

Sure it will help to have guys who can score, or even more speed to keep up the forecheck, but without being able to break out of the zone in the third period, what good is a strong forecheck?

This system needs to be tweaked in the defensive zone, especially in the 3rd period.

The team has not played one game all season with it's top six defenders and starting goaltender healthy all season. Martinek out for this long is just too much with Witt not the same without him.

Then why when we had 5 of our top 6 D out of the lineup early in the season our GA was better than when they've been in?

We should've improved in this area not get worse.

And Witt not the same without Martinek? He's an NHL veteran of how many years? We as Islander fans have been on the losing end for so long it's second nature to just make excuses for our team instead of seeing it for what it is and rejecting those excuses. Excuses are just that, excuses, it's time this team takes responsibility from the GM on down to the fans.

What are we all supposed to take responsibility for? It's not the general managers fault they led the league in man games lost to injury last season and well on their way to doing it again.

Brendan Witt has had at least three reported knee problems in less than a year that forcred him to miss significant time, that's not an excuse. Garth Snow did a good job resigning him and he wanted to be here. He has not looked good without Martinek or very good with anyone.

It's not anyone's fault Campoli had another shoulder injury (in a preseason game) and Sutton got hurt with both missing the early part of the season.

It's not Martinek's fault he got hit on opening night and got injured again when he returned or Meyer missed time with his hernia.

Gervais did not injure himself here on purpose.

The team led the league in blocked shots and still were giving up near the most shots of anyone.

The goaltender kept them in for a while but now his play has leveled off and all these injuries have caught up with them.

Teams lose this many games to injury they do not win, that's the only fact here that's consistent.

Everyone could have been healthy and you could have added a top tier defenseman and forward on this team and I'd still be willing to bet that we wouldn't be any better.

Why?
Icetime significantly changes (trickle down effect) and maybe then, we don't see Nielsen show signs of breakout year.
Trent Hunter on pace for 30+ goal season.
Doug Weight having a rebirth with added icetime etc etc.

Coaching, in game adjustments to counter opposition and preparation may be their achilles heel.

I don't care what the roster is, it's the NHL and they'd still have to adjust to this new "system"
that looks extremely flawed when teams figure how to counter it and we don't have the skill to just get by with.

For them to win, they have to play the perfect game and get some bounces.

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Webb20
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Godfather
By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey. (but he saved the franchise)

We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Yashin needs a sniper (we go and get Satan)

FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)

We hear it all the time and we're use to it.


I know, I know Webb20's lost it. I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice. When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving. I'm losing faith in this franchise.
:disgraced:
I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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puckhead
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All Star
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
11:33 AM
By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey. (but he saved the franchise)

We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Yashin needs a sniper (we go and get Satan)

FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)

We hear it all the time and we're use to it.


I know, I know Webb20's lost it. I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice. When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving. I'm losing faith in this franchise.
:disgraced:

You haven't lost it Webby. Infact out of every post I've seen by you, this one nails it dead on.

Good job.....you are a thousand percent correct.
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nyifancentral
4th line
stevedepot,Dec 18 2008
11:08 AM
nyifancentral,Dec 18 2008
10:56 AM
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
09:02 AM
nyifancentral,Dec 18 2008
03:54 AM
Webb20,Dec 16 2008
08:44 AM
I just hope Gordon's "Overspeed" system isnt the Jeff Tambellini of hockey systems.   Great on the AHL level but cant cut it on the NHL level.   Those 3rd period breakdowns could be a result of playing NHL caliber teams and them adjusting to an aggressive forecheck after 2 periods unlike the inability of an AHL team making the same adjustments.   In the AHL that lead is held, team wins 55 games, in the NHL that lead is lost because of better talent, better coaching and better adjusting up in the big leagues.

Sure it will help to have guys who can score, or even more speed to keep up the forecheck, but without being able to break out of the zone in the third period, what good is a strong forecheck?

This system needs to be tweaked in the defensive zone, especially in the 3rd period.

The team has not played one game all season with it's top six defenders and starting goaltender healthy all season. Martinek out for this long is just too much with Witt not the same without him.

Then why when we had 5 of our top 6 D out of the lineup early in the season our GA was better than when they've been in?

We should've improved in this area not get worse.

And Witt not the same without Martinek? He's an NHL veteran of how many years? We as Islander fans have been on the losing end for so long it's second nature to just make excuses for our team instead of seeing it for what it is and rejecting those excuses. Excuses are just that, excuses, it's time this team takes responsibility from the GM on down to the fans.

What are we all supposed to take responsibility for? It's not the general managers fault they led the league in man games lost to injury last season and well on their way to doing it again.

Brendan Witt has had at least three reported knee problems in less than a year that forcred him to miss significant time, that's not an excuse. Garth Snow did a good job resigning him and he wanted to be here. He has not looked good without Martinek or very good with anyone.

It's not anyone's fault Campoli had another shoulder injury (in a preseason game) and Sutton got hurt with both missing the early part of the season.

It's not Martinek's fault he got hit on opening night and got injured again when he returned or Meyer missed time with his hernia.

Gervais did not injure himself here on purpose.

The team led the league in blocked shots and still were giving up near the most shots of anyone.

The goaltender kept them in for a while but now his play has leveled off and all these injuries have caught up with them.

Teams lose this many games to injury they do not win, that's the only fact here that's consistent.




Everyone was not healthy last year and still they were in sixth place as late as january on the leagues lowest scoring club, this year they jumped as high as 20th in league scoring until Nielsen and Okposo got hurt.

That's a ten spot improvement on a club that lost over fifty goals from Satan, Fedotenko and Vasicek with nothing from Comrie.

Last year the powerplay was 30th, this year it's 12th.

They did add a top tier defender in Streit who's played very well in all three zones and got a top powerplay guy in Weight who is not good at even strength.

You cannot write " I don't care what the roster is " you cannot dismiss all these injuries, no NHL team would play well with this many players out after a while. It took a toll last year, it is again.

They have the skill to score more in sixty minutes. A year ago they scored two goals or less fourteen games in a row during Nov-December. Now they are losing games scoring four goals (twice) and losing other games with three goals scored.

Terrible plus/minus club, terrible even strength club.
Worst man games lost to injury in the league again.
Too many rushed back early.



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Webb20
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Godfather
Puck, you know me a long time and you know I've always triied to be optimistic. I've been a rah rah fan forever. I've yelled at you for being so negative at times(:sorrysmile:), so if I'm losing faith in this coach, GM, ownership and franchise then the NY Islanders are in serious trouble.

I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Hey, question for everyone. Not to steer debate away from above.

But, at the beginning of the year, we all stated that we knew it would be a tough year.
Lots of downs. Fine.
But we also said we were eager to see this "system" and all we wanted was a reason for hope and to be entertained while going through rebuild.

Well, at times they've been fun to watch but for the most part, it's been frustrating seeing the same old stuff I've seen from various other Islanders teams the last decade plus.
Some sprinkles of hope and feel good stories, but major disappointments and head scratchers
and oh yes, excuses.

But yes, rebuild we must.
For me, while the hard work and play of Park, Streit, Hunter, Hilbert and Nielsen (pre-injury) pats me on the back and tells me it's ok, there's hope with this system...

The erratic defensive zone confusion from a revolving door of players punches me in the stomach and tells me this Gordon bastid has a long way to go to being a good coach at the NHL level.

hence, very little excitement.

:dontknow:
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puckhead
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All Star
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
11:44 AM
Puck, you know me a long time and you know I've always triied to be optimistic. I've been a rah rah fan forever. I've yelled at you for being so negative at times(:sorrysmile:), so if I'm losing faith in this coach, GM, ownership and franchise then the NY Islanders are in serious trouble.

I know Webby.....and believe me....I've tried not to be negative. But there's only so much you can take. Its hard not to be negative. this team gives you plenty of ammo.

Things just never seem to get better.
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nyifancentral
4th line
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
11:33 AM
By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey. (but he saved the franchise)

We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Yashin needs a sniper (we go and get Satan)

FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)

We hear it all the time and we're use to it.


I know, I know Webb20's lost it. I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice. When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving. I'm losing faith in this franchise.
:disgraced:

* By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

You seem to want to substitute excuses for the facts.

New York Islanders went to four of the last six playoffs and were sixth place last season as late as January before illness/injury took over last year. Even going down in the end they won six in a row before the next wave finished them.

That's not sucking for a long, long, long time. It's not worthy of a parade but it's not Phoenix, Los Angeles, St Louis, Nashville, Florida and a lot of teams in this league that have been lousy for even longer.

* We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey. (but he saved the franchise)

What does an owner need to know about hockey, other than to spend his money when told by the hockey people? He picked some who did not work out but he spent more than anyone ever has here. What he apparently cannot do is front-load contracts like corporate teams and take even a bigger loss.

* We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

And what do half the former players around this league who are now gm's have for experience, you think George McPhee is some kind of brillant hockey mind or co gm Brett Hull's 16m Avery disgrace or player agent turned gm Mike Barnett in Phoenix or the sideshow in Tampa combined with about fifteen other franchises?

Remind me what the Reigier-Ruff/Trotz-Poile tandum in Nashville has done again or how many playoff series Sather-Smith won since 1997 with hundreds of millions?

Want to talk about J.D in St Louis who is a hockey president and finishes behind the Islanders or the Hawks who fired a coach after four games?

* We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

And a well regarded coach who got praise from most NHL circles when he was hired just like John Anderson and Peter Deboer. A lot of clubs hired rookies, you think LA gm is brillant for firing his first coach for Terry Murray?

* We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

Not sure what you mean.

* We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

DiPietro's been hurt since the middle of last year, not the last nine years. He keyed the six game winning streak heading into the deadline with Martin Brodeur's endorsement he's one of the best goaltenders in the league who only opened 9-0 against both local clubs last year. He carried the to the 03-04 playoffs in his first stretch as full time starter and dominated in the second half of a lost 05-06 season while having them in sixth in 06-07.

* We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

They have also blocked the most shots in the league too and never had all six healthy.

* Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

A fourteen year vet who has had three knee injuries since Jaunary and keeps coming back as quick as he can to help.

* We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Garth Snow never said youth movement, he made that clear to the NY Times in today's paper. He did talk about giving prospects time and opportunity.

A lot of the talent in this system is very good, unless you define talent as must be Ovechkin, Crosby or Malkin.

* FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)
So how come more UFA have signed here since 2006 than at any point in the clubs entire history? Why did Hunter, Witt and everyone else who leaves virtually has their career end or go in the tank? Scatchard Parrish, Aucoin, Peca, Czerkawski, Kvasha,
Weinhandl, Asham.

* I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice. When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving. I'm losing faith in this franchise.

So what do you want them to do besides off 100m to Gaborik and then trade Bailey, Okposo and the first rounder to restore faith.

This is why Milbury did what he did, too many lost faith. For some it takes only 30 games.

Youth movements fail too, look at Florida and all the players we gave them who had to be traded.
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IslanderQueen
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Webb20,Dec 18 2008
12:33 PM
By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey. (but he saved the franchise)

We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Yashin needs a sniper (we go and get Satan)

FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)

We hear it all the time and we're use to it.


I know, I know Webb20's lost it. I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice. When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving. I'm losing faith in this franchise.
:disgraced:

awww...

you need a hug :hug:
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Bossy22
1st line
Steve, you're bang on. Most people here knew it was going to be a hard year to be an Islander fan. Most accepted it. Then the season starts and hey...we're 1 game under .500. We might be ok...followed by 7 game losing streak and the white flag is being raised. Like everyone else, I hate losing and I hate cheering for a loss. But I know, that the only way this franchise is going to turn things around is to land Tavares or Hedman in the draft. Sign 1 of the 2 college players being talked about. Hope the KHL continues to struggle and get Petrov over here. Next year, and this is no stretch, our youngsters could consist of:

Bailey
Okposo
Petrov
Tavares
1 of the college kids
Neilsen
Comeau
Campoli

Webb20, you more then anybody on this board knows the Lighthouse will be reality. If we break ground next summer and we are able to showcase the above names with a slogan that says the "Future is here.....the Future is Now". The franchise can make a 180 degree turn from this year.

We have to be bad...I mean really bad before we are going to get better. This is only way to land Tavares or Hedman. Garth Snow is doing the right thing as frustrating as it may be. Over 1/3 of the season is over, it won't be long before this team starts setting themselves up for next year with trades and the waiver wire. This will get Isles fans through the last 1/3 of the season. Things appear to be at an altime low right now but that's really not the case.
- We're moving towards a new facility...yes slow, but moving.
- We're seeing that Bailey might just be alright....Filatov who???
- We are finally comitting to a full rebuild...short term contracts for the Vets and youngsters getting ice time.
- a PP qb we've prayed for (Streit)

Things may not be as bad as they appear on the cover. Try and stay positive and don't sell out on the team. We are huge fans who love this team and if we didn't care as much as we did, we wouldn't be sharing are frustrations on a message board.

Webb, go get yourself a glass, some ice, 40 oz of crown royal, a large bottle of gingerale and set up shop on the lazy boy. Tomorrow will be different, albeit, you'll have a massive headache.

For those who gamble a bit, try betting some of your money against the Isles when they play....that way you benefit finacially while they struggle through the season.....I know it's working for me :rotflmao:
[Posted Image
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Dark Helmet
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My helmet is bigger than yours
IslanderQueen,Dec 18 2008
01:25 PM
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
12:33 PM
By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey.  (but he saved the franchise)

We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Yashin needs a sniper (we go and get Satan)

FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)

We hear it all the time and we're use to it.


I know, I know Webb20's lost it.  I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice.  When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving.  I'm losing faith in this franchise.
:disgraced:

awww...

you need a hug :hug:

:lol3:

Thanks IQ,

What a bunch of whiners. I mean seriously folks how many of us are adults here?

All i'm gonna say is, When we go on a 4-5 game winning streak this season. The whole outlook on the organization will change...again.
"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."
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LEDZEP
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The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
Dark Helmet,Dec 18 2008
01:42 PM
IslanderQueen,Dec 18 2008
01:25 PM
Webb20,Dec 18 2008
12:33 PM
By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey.  (but he saved the franchise)

We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

We have a Coach without any NHL experience (he was successful in the AHL and has a system)

We give 'snipers' who dont score in a half a season 100+ games (because he was never given the proper ice time or line)

We give our 'all star' goaltender a pass for never leading us or leading the league in anything(except injuries) and he's been on the roster for 9 years.

We have the worst GA in the league (yet we give our veteran D a pass because they've suffered thru injuries).

Brendan Witt isnt the same D man without Martinek (a 14 year vet's game shouldn't matter who he's paired with)

We decide to go with a youth movement with marginal talent in our system. (we'll win the Tavares sweepstakes)

Yashin needs a sniper (we go and get Satan)

FAs dont want to sign here (because of the building)

We hear it all the time and we're use to it.


I know, I know Webb20's lost it.   I'm ticked about alot of things with this club and it doesnt end on the ice.   When I hear how I spend good money on a partial plan and then holiday packs come out cheaper, or loudville gets special dirt cheap plans, and we lose 11 out of 12 while our game is getting worse not improving.  I'm losing faith in this franchise.
:disgraced:

awww...

you need a hug :hug:

:lol3:

I mean seriously folks how many of us are adults here?


:omg: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
Posted Image
Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
All Star
:applaud: to nyifancentral. Excellent couple of posts.

It is nice to wrap this season in a blanket of "see, they're all failures, oh what are we to do", but the season isn't that simple.

How long did some people think the rebuild was going to take? A week? One losing streak? The team is slumping right now, and I bet their confidence is shaken. What miracles did everyone expect? These are the days of growing pains. The true mark of this rebuild will be how the team handles the season going forward. Do we decline further, or rise up? And if we decline, more complaining that the team isn't winning, and if we win, more complaining that we won't draft Tavares. You can't have it both ways. You can't win, and draft the top pick.
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3POTI
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Bring back...PRIDE OF THE ISLAND
please continue to lose games Islanders...go on 50 game losing streak..I want to be sure we land tavares or hedman....
Today Is A Great Day To Be An Islander Fan!
Live For The Moment!

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Webb20
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 18 2008
07:11 PM
:applaud: to nyifancentral. Excellent couple of posts.

It is nice to wrap this season in a blanket of "see, they're all failures, oh what are we to do", but the season isn't that simple.

How long did some people think the rebuild was going to take? A week? One losing streak? The team is slumping right now, and I bet their confidence is shaken. What miracles did everyone expect? These are the days of growing pains. The true mark of this rebuild will be how the team handles the season going forward. Do we decline further, or rise up? And if we decline, more complaining that the team isn't winning, and if we win, more complaining that we won't draft Tavares. You can't have it both ways. You can't win, and draft the top pick.

My complaints arent that we are losing. I can handle losing if, and this is a big IF, we show signs of improving and as more teams play us and more scouting reports come in on us we are showing signs of worsening. It's all about improvement, you know two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, but an upward climb in our performance.

I feel like the hated kid in "Mother May I" where the caller only gives you "Giant Steps Back" when it's your turn. :bag:

I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
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Islander4cups
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In Garth I Trust

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* By responsibility from the fans I meant we make excuses for everything because we are use to sucking for a long long long time and not tell it like it is.

You seem to want to substitute excuses for the facts.

New York Islanders went to four of the last six playoffs and were sixth place last season as late as January before illness/injury took over last year. Even going down in the end they won six in a row before the next wave finished them.

That's not sucking for a long, long, long time. It's not worthy of a parade but it's not Phoenix, Los Angeles, St Louis, Nashville, Florida and a lot of teams in this league that have been lousy for even longer.


Are you ssssing me? We haven't won a playoff series since 1993. We aren't as bad as Pheonix, LA, St.L, Nashville and Florida??? That is like saying, "well, we aren't as bad as the LA Clippers or the Detroit Lions". Those teams have NEVER done anything. Collectively they have 0 banners hanging in about 100 collective seasons.... but hey... it could be worse. We could be the Texas Rangers.?? :dontknow:

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* We have an owner who's didnt know the first thing about hockey.  (but he saved the franchise)

What does an owner need to know about hockey, other than to spend his money when told by the hockey people? He picked some who did not work out but he spent more than anyone ever has here. What he apparently cannot do is front-load contracts like corporate teams and take even a bigger loss.


Owners need to know who to bring in to run their hockey ops. Let's face it. Wang kept MM far too long and then couldn't get an experienced GM to stay longer than 2 months.

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* We have a GM who had zero experience (but he has a MB in business and knows the talent around the league)

And what do half the former players around this league who are now gm's have for experience, you think George McPhee is some kind of brillant hockey mind or co gm Brett Hull's  16m Avery disgrace or player agent turned gm Mike Barnett in Phoenix or the sideshow in Tampa combined with about fifteen other franchises?

Remind me what the Reigier-Ruff/Trotz-Poile tandum in Nashville has done again or how many playoff series Sather-Smith won since 1997 with hundreds of millions? 

Want to talk about J.D in St Louis who is a hockey president and finishes behind the Islanders or the Hawks who fired a coach after four games?


I'm not down on Garth as some are. I know it takes a while to do a rebuild in the current nhl and you have to get rid of the trash before it can happen. But you aren't building your argument by citing how other crappy organizations have stayed crappy. REally, you want to compare us to StL, Dallas, LAK, Tampa and say...well, look at them. We have been in that boat long enough. Many want to see this team move up so that we are atleast a team with the threat to go deep every few years and an anual shot to get out of the first round. We HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN THAT IN 15 YEARS, so excuse me if I'm rude (not intending to be) but your attempts to pacify are falling on deaf ears because the point you are making is ridiculous....I mean, come on. Who cares if we are "not as bad" as the worst organizations annually in the nhl. That is a terrible basis for comparison.
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Webb20,Dec 19 2008
09:51 AM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 18 2008
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:applaud: to nyifancentral. Excellent couple of posts.

It is nice to wrap this season in a blanket of "see, they're all failures, oh what are we to do", but the season isn't that simple.

How long did some people think the rebuild was going to take? A week? One losing streak? The team is slumping right now, and I bet their confidence is shaken. What miracles did everyone expect? These are the days of growing pains. The true mark of this rebuild will be how the team handles the season going forward. Do we decline further, or rise up? And if we decline, more complaining that the team isn't winning, and if we win, more complaining that we won't draft Tavares. You can't have it both ways. You can't win, and draft the top pick.

My complaints arent that we are losing. I can handle losing if, and this is a big IF, we show signs of improving and as more teams play us and more scouting reports come in on us we are showing signs of worsening. It's all about improvement, you know two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, but an upward climb in our performance.

I feel like the hated kid in "Mother May I" where the caller only gives you "Giant Steps Back" when it's your turn. :bag:

Then you should have been nicer to the kid who was "it" :P

I know what you mean. I went into this season saying "I'm looking for improvement".

It was obvious we weren't a playoff team and I'm fine with that...this year. It is part of a rebuild. We need some good drafts and this is one way that happens.

However, it should have been obvious that our good stretch in November was because of one guy...Joey Mac. He stood on his head. And he covered alot of this team's warts.

Just as DP has done for long stretches last year prior to Feb and in previous seasons. And just as with DP, Joey Mac's play is now slipping because you can't start 24 of 25 games where you are facing 35-40 shots a night.


I've been saying that for 2-3 years now (especially to the DP haters) and still many don't want to listen. Our problem isn't between the pipes. We have a quality number one who should play a 60-65 game pace, not a 75 game pace...and we have a quality backup who can easily eat the other 20-30 games. And neither should wear out with that workload and the team shouldn't suffer.

But once this team gets outside the crease, it suffers. No legit top 3 defensemen. NO legit top 5 forwards.

Until we address that, it doesn't matter if we play left wing lock, neutral zone trap, overspeed, underspeed, over easy, sunnyside up or scrambled.

To go where we want to go...which is not "be better than STL or LAK or Pheonix" and it is NOT "make the playoffs"...We've done that for nearly a decade and we end in mid April each time.

To go where we want to go, we need to bring in top players...and the only way to do that will be to do it the way Pitt and DC did it. Do you think any top FA's wanted to go to Washington or Pitt prior to 06? Do you think Sid DREAMED of going to Pitt as a kid? He went because he was DRAFTED. That is how we will have to do it.
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Webb20,Dec 19 2008
09:51 AM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 18 2008
07:11 PM
:applaud: to nyifancentral. Excellent couple of posts.

It is nice to wrap this season in a blanket of "see, they're all failures, oh what are we to do", but the season isn't that simple.

How long did some people think the rebuild was going to take? A week? One losing streak? The team is slumping right now, and I bet their confidence is shaken. What miracles did everyone expect? These are the days of growing pains. The true mark of this rebuild will be how the team handles the season going forward. Do we decline further, or rise up? And if we decline, more complaining that the team isn't winning, and if we win, more complaining that we won't draft Tavares. You can't have it both ways. You can't win, and draft the top pick.

My complaints arent that we are losing. I can handle losing if, and this is a big IF, we show signs of improving and as more teams play us and more scouting reports come in on us we are showing signs of worsening. It's all about improvement, you know two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one step back, but an upward climb in our performance.

I feel like the hated kid in "Mother May I" where the caller only gives you "Giant Steps Back" when it's your turn. :bag:

We've have one good November, a moderate October, and now we are slumping in December... I know people are tired of it, but patience. Sometimes, when the injuries pile on, and the goaltender wears down a bit, you hit a huge bump in the road to improvement. Just because we slump doesn't mean we won't show signs of improvement, just it doesn't mean we will. Sometimes a rebuild is one step forward, two steps back at times. It won't ever be one step forward, one step forward, five steps forward. There is always going to be a back and forth as the kinks are worked out. Let's get a healthy roster, then worry about whether this season is an improving season.
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Sorry I meant... :blah:
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