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Defense makeover; Who stay's, who goes
Topic Started: Dec 18 2008, 12:57 PM (971 Views)
stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Nick, nyifancentral.

I don't know. Like you I can only speculate. I already stated how I feel.
That's what I'm sticking with.
Lock in that opinion...for now.

This org is the reason Islander fans lead all NHL fans in Aspirin consumption.

:dontknow:
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IslanderQueen
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:headbanging: :happyday: :headbanging:



:santa:


I have to say this intellectual discussions are entertaining :thumbsup:
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nyifancentral
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Webb20,Dec 19 2008
10:43 AM
Or maybe he's just telling us the news the Islanders dont want us to hear.

Come on Webb20, you think the Knicks get the pounding the Islanders have in Newsday or Hahn goes to everyone uphappy and gets them to comment about the coach?

All we got from the teams house paper was the staff running down Marbury and not a word about Dolan who would not buy out a player. As the new puppet gm and coach kept saying something different.

Meanwhile Danilo Galinari after the spam campaign on their top pick has been a joke
got a lot more favorable treatment than Bailey got.

You really think the Knicks deserve better than the Islanders considering the records since 2001 from Newsday?

Mr Botta blasted Alan Hahn and Newsday his final days on the beat in April 2006.
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7th Woman
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Tell me the truth NYIFANCENTRAL...

Greg ran over your puppy years ago didn't he...
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stevedepot
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nyifancentral,Dec 19 2008
11:04 AM
Webb20,Dec 19 2008
10:43 AM
Or maybe he's just telling us the news the Islanders dont want us to hear.

Come on Webb20, you think the Knicks get the pounding the Islanders have in Newsday or Hahn goes to everyone uphappy and gets them to comment about the coach?

All we got from the teams house paper was the staff running down Marbury and not a word about Dolan who would not buy out a player. As the new puppet gm and coach kept saying something different.

Meanwhile Danilo Galinari after the spam campaign on their top pick has been a joke
got a lot more favorable treatment than Bailey got.

You really think the Knicks deserve better than the Islanders considering the records since 2001 from Newsday?

While I'm not a BBall fan, that's a good point.
But then again, Newsday was highly critical during that whole Isiah Thomas bashfest.

is it Logan and Hahn that you don't like or Newsday in general?

:dontknow:
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Webb20
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I dont know what to think, but I know what I read. And right now Newsday is the only beat coverage we have in print. I know Greg Logan and he doesnt strike me as the type to sensationalize. But I guess train wrecks get attention, while puppy adoption stories get bypassed, meaning higher sales with controversial or bad news.

Bottom line is it's the Islanders fault. They have so much fodder to cover. If they weren't so full of disorganization over so long a time, we'd get no news like the Devils.



I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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nyifancentral
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Webb20,Dec 19 2008
11:10 AM
I dont know what to think, but I know what I read.   And right now Newsday is the only beat coverage we have in print.    I know Greg Logan and he doesnt strike me as the type to sensationalize.  But I guess train wrecks get attention, while puppy adoption stories get bypassed, meaning higher sales with controversial or bad news.

Bottom line is it's the Islanders fault.   They have so much fodder to cover.  If they weren't so full of disorganization over so long a time, we'd get no news like the Devils.


Mr Botta had a lot more from Witt that did not make Newsday about how much Witt wants to be here and tells a different story.

Dee, all due respect but being in the blog box does not mean the media person is above criticism or about friendships or ties. You need to seperate these things once in a while and not defend Mr Logan for everything or snipe at me when you don't like me calling him on questionable content. I'm sure he is a very nice gentleman.

When I talk about the man off the ice then feel free to snipe at me, not before.

You are not shy about being critical with other media, everyone has to be treated the same and fair depending on the work.

Mr Logan also gets his due when he does a good job from me and you know it.
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nyifancentral
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stevedepot,Dec 19 2008
11:08 AM
nyifancentral,Dec 19 2008
11:04 AM
Webb20,Dec 19 2008
10:43 AM
Or maybe he's just telling us the news the Islanders dont want us to hear.

Come on Webb20, you think the Knicks get the pounding the Islanders have in Newsday or Hahn goes to everyone uphappy and gets them to comment about the coach?

All we got from the teams house paper was the staff running down Marbury and not a word about Dolan who would not buy out a player. As the new puppet gm and coach kept saying something different.

Meanwhile Danilo Galinari after the spam campaign on their top pick has been a joke
got a lot more favorable treatment than Bailey got.

You really think the Knicks deserve better than the Islanders considering the records since 2001 from Newsday?

While I'm not a BBall fan, that's a good point.
But then again, Newsday was highly critical during that whole Isiah Thomas bashfest.

is it Logan and Hahn that you don't like or Newsday in general?

:dontknow:

Steve, I'm a fan of fair coverage, the names of the writers are wallpaper as far as I'm concerned. All I see is the content day by day.

Webb20, just because Newsday is the only full-time paper that covers the club does not mean they are right either about everything they put in the paper. You think when Jim Baumbach takes shots at Al Arbour or Anthony Rieber writes were going to keep writing the Islanders are a laughingstock until they prove othewise (in the summer) but not the Knicks that's even treatment?

Look at Mark Everson in the Post, virtually everything for the Devils in negative and full of gloom and doom.

Devils have some very good writers in the Star Ledger and Bergen Record, we have one paper and everything they report is treated as gospel and goes straight to Canada.
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sybo
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10:30 am - “I don’t want to be traded,” Brendan Witt told Point Blank just 15 minutes ago in an interview in which he never backed down from his comments in today’s Newsday. “I want to fix the problem.”



In Newsday, the veteran defenseman criticizes coach Scott Gordon’s defensive structure: “Personally, I think it’s more of a risky type of game,” Witt tells Greg Logan. “There’s a lot of odd-man rushes. But that’s the way he wants us to play, and until he decides he wants to change that, we’re going to play that way.”



As you’d expect from the hard-charging Witt, he did not back down when I spoke with him this morning.



“I’ve talked to Scott about it a lot. I’ve kept it internal for a long time,” Witt said from his Minnesota hotel room. “I was just answering Greg’s questions honestly.”



Witt continued: “My opinions I’ve shared with Scott is that there’s times in the game when we shouldn’t play the system. You don’t see any other teams in the NHL playing this way for a straight 60 minutes. It’s a very hard system. It’s like telling a sprinter to keep running at that pace for 60 minutes.”



When I told Witt that his comments will give the perception that he wants off the Island, he was demonstrative in saying he wants to stay and “fix the problem.”



“If I didn’t want to stay with the Islanders, I wouldn’t have signed the contract extension this summer (through 2010-11). I love it here. I just want to win. I don’t want to win just 20 games and be happy about it.”



Later on, he pounded home his message.



“When I talk to Scott about changing it up, his feeling is the system will work but that we haven’t executed it,” said Witt. “But my feeling is, if you want to win, you install a system that works best for the players you currently have.”



Ladies and gentlemen, we have our first full-blown controversy of the season. Newsday even traced its story on the back cover over a beautiful blue sky in their photo of C.C. and A.J. at the new Yankee Stadium. It says, “ISLES CONTROVERSY: Witt blames Gordon for defensive woes.”



The justification for the hoopla is that it’s Brendan Witt talking. Witt signed a two-year contract extension with the Islanders when he knew Ted Nolan was going to be gone (the dman was not a fan of the ex-coach), but before Gordon was even interviewed. Witt happily signed up for the Islanders and Long Island, but obviously not for fire wagon hockey.



His comments to Greg Logan came on the heels of a minus-5 outing against Washington on Tuesday. To us this morning Witt said, “I had a bad night and was minus-5, but I look at those goals and there isn’t anything I would have done differently.”



Whenever you install a new system, there are casualties from the group of holdover players. (A scout at the Coliseum told me two weeks ago, “Mark Streit is the only dman suited to playing Gordon’s system. Maybe Campoli, too.”) The question now is whether the Islanders move Witt to another NHL team for fair value, and whether they can.



If Witt had not signed the extension through 2010-11 - even at a reasonable $3 mill a year - he would be much easier to trade. Compound the remaining two years on his deal with the perception of his unhappiness, and Garth Snow may no longer be in position to demand a good price.



If Logan’s blog entry from today’s 12:30 pm EST skate in Minnesota isn’t about Witt and Gordon hugging it out - and the coach saying all the right things about his respected defenseman - the hole only gets deeper.





ETC: After the morning workout in Minnesota, I hope to have information on line combinations and scratches for tonight and will add to this pre-game story.


Garth Snow circa 2006:
Quote:
 
but how can you not be excited about DiPietro…Robert Nilsson…Ryan O'Marra…Petteri Nokelainen…Jeremy Colliton…Kyle Okposo…Blake Comeau…Sean Bergenheim…Chris Campoli…and so many others.
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7th Woman
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NYIFC - I don't have to separate myself from anything. Not here. I've never "sniped" you anywhere else. But the perpetual Logan "quality of work" bashing grates on my nerves.

When I'm here, I'm not the blog box, I'm not media, I'm just Momma Dee, and Momma Dee protects those closest to her at all costs.

Go ahead ....

Say something about Jason Blake (or currently, God Forbid... Garth) and see what you get...

:lol:
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stevedepot
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7th Woman,Dec 19 2008
11:49 AM
NYIFC - I don't have to separate myself from anything. Not here. I've never "sniped" you anywhere else. But the perpetual Logan "quality of work" bashing grates on my nerves.

When I'm here, I'm not the blog box, I'm not media, I'm just Momma Dee, and Momma Dee protects those closest to her at all costs.

Go ahead ....

Say something about Jason Blake (or currently, God Forbid... Garth) and see what you get...

:lol:

Garth Snow is a bastid.

:P :moon: :goofy2:
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7th Woman
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For that... your photoshop access will terminate at midnight Steve-O!
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Islander4cups
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nyifancentral,Dec 19 2008
10:28 AM
stevedepot,Dec 19 2008
10:05 AM
Webb20,Dec 19 2008
09:58 AM
Right on steve with the assessment of Witt.

However, I think the writing is starting to appear on the wall for Gordon in the form of Logan articles.

I'm loving the candid honest opines coming from Logan lately.
Could it be a nudge so to speak from Cablevision (who also owns the Rangers)?

I mean, their editorials on politics are skewed one way.
Logan was always fair with this org and I loved reading his articles but seems he's not holding back this year.

Between him and Botta, I love not having Kool Aid.
Like you, I was mr. rah-rah always looking for positives last season.
But no more.

Still a fan and a die-hard who gets that adrenaline rush driving home from work knowing that in 5 minutes the game will start. But with Gordon...I'd bet alot of the vets wish they had Nolan back here. How do multi-millionaires respect a guy who's pushing them to conform to a system that still in it's infancy stages at this level?
Especially when the bastid cannot come up with a counter strategy to opponents who figure a way to break his system???


ahhh yes...patience.

:rotflmao:

Come on Steve,

Zipay on one end is questioning Sundin as someone who does not know what he wants because he did not sign with team Cablevision (guess the age of dumpy Msg did not make the article or no frontloaded contract) while Logan is seeking out who is most uphappy.

Witt got more space today than he did for resigning or since the day he came here.

This is the same candid honesty opines that got us Yashin returning headlines or Nolan threatens veterans with trades that both had to be retracted after they did the damage. Logan hooked up with Gandler the same day the Islanders announced the injury policy and reported DiPietro and Guerin already had surgery.

Meanwile when DiPietro was at the ASG Logan could not write one blog about it or Al Arbour night. This guy is never around for good news, that's when Herrmann shows up and tells us we have alumni nights to only sell tickets or get ready for the club to move.

Or we get articles from Staple (another former Ranger beatwiter) telling us DP and Wang should shut up even though Baumback demands Wang speak up.

The nudge from Logan/Cablevision/Newsday were the attacks on the team about the league injury policy which Newsday practically bullied the team out of while Msg would not even give the team a pregame show.

Same week Isles started talking about injuries Isles got a pregame show. A company that sent Jaffe and Mears to every preseason game but would not let one appear live on ITV for anyone for days.

Logan made Nolan's contract a public issue and kept it center stage then he made a big rift out of Snow with Dubielewicz.

Sometimes all it takes is the media stirring the pot to become the final straw if communication is poor, think Nolan has sent Logan any thank you cards for making his contract a public issue now?

Logan is the former Newsday Ranger beatwriter who goes on Msg and talks 94 Rangers just like Howie.

Logan is outblogged 5-1 in the only paper with an Islander blog, enough with the fair angle.

Professional writer but it's just a paycheck and an assignment.

The Islanders have absolutely NO DEFENSIVE prospects in their system right now. Kohn is not that highly touted.

As far as last year's draft, we picked up a few D men in the first three rounds, but none of them is expected to be more than a 4th dman at best.

This needs to be addressed in both the next two drafts and the FA market.
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nyifancentral
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7th Woman,Dec 19 2008
11:49 AM
NYIFC - I don't have to separate myself from anything.  Not here.  I've never "sniped" you anywhere else.  But the perpetual Logan "quality of work" bashing grates on my nerves. 

When I'm here, I'm not the blog box, I'm not media, I'm just Momma Dee, and Momma Dee protects those closest to her at all costs.

Go ahead ....

Say something about Jason Blake (or currently, God Forbid... Garth) and see what you get...

:lol:

* But the perpetual Logan "quality of work" bashing grates on my nerves.

Sorry, but I think the quality of his work should improve a lot (along with a lot more blog entries) and we will have to agree to disagree.

Newsday just released the Islander Insider and Mr Logan had nothing on how Witt loves it here and at no time wanted to be traded but a fair statistical argument Gordon may have to change his system.

Gordon pulled no punches on Campoli either and how he should be jumping into the play.

Mr Botta told the entire story and if was not writing his blog we would see three months of Witt hates it here and wants out. Mr Logan should have done likewise.

Mr Botta also wrote Witt was not a fan of Ted Nolan. (not exact words)

We had no idea how Hunter loved it here either and assumed he was a goner until he signed a year ago. For months all we got was he will never sign here from Newsday.

All this coverage influences fans who want to buy tickets and media everywhere who create team perception for agents and players come July 1st.

I think it should be fair but back to topic.
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Shooter
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They will be addressed. I told everyone here to take the year off, spend more time with your loved ones, and let's meet again in June when we welcome Tavares aboard.

The key time for this franchise will be the weeks leading up to the trade deadline. Snow must deal wisely and not let the many players who won't be here next year slip away without any compensation. I mean "any." Even a fresh pretzel twist should be had.


:)
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Islander4cups
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sybo,Dec 19 2008
11:38 AM
Quote:
 
10:30 am - “I don’t want to be traded,” Brendan Witt told Point Blank just 15 minutes ago in an interview in which he never backed down from his comments in today’s Newsday. “I want to fix the problem.”



In Newsday, the veteran defenseman criticizes coach Scott Gordon’s defensive structure: “Personally, I think it’s more of a risky type of game,” Witt tells Greg Logan. “There’s a lot of odd-man rushes. But that’s the way he wants us to play, and until he decides he wants to change that, we’re going to play that way.”



As you’d expect from the hard-charging Witt, he did not back down when I spoke with him this morning.



“I’ve talked to Scott about it a lot. I’ve kept it internal for a long time,” Witt said from his Minnesota hotel room. “I was just answering Greg’s questions honestly.”



Witt continued: “My opinions I’ve shared with Scott is that there’s times in the game when we shouldn’t play the system. You don’t see any other teams in the NHL playing this way for a straight 60 minutes. It’s a very hard system. It’s like telling a sprinter to keep running at that pace for 60 minutes.”



When I told Witt that his comments will give the perception that he wants off the Island, he was demonstrative in saying he wants to stay and “fix the problem.”



“If I didn’t want to stay with the Islanders, I wouldn’t have signed the contract extension this summer (through 2010-11). I love it here. I just want to win. I don’t want to win just 20 games and be happy about it.”



Later on, he pounded home his message.



“When I talk to Scott about changing it up, his feeling is the system will work but that we haven’t executed it,” said Witt. “But my feeling is, if you want to win, you install a system that works best for the players you currently have.”



Ladies and gentlemen, we have our first full-blown controversy of the season. Newsday even traced its story on the back cover over a beautiful blue sky in their photo of C.C. and A.J. at the new Yankee Stadium. It says, “ISLES CONTROVERSY: Witt blames Gordon for defensive woes.”



The justification for the hoopla is that it’s Brendan Witt talking. Witt signed a two-year contract extension with the Islanders when he knew Ted Nolan was going to be gone (the dman was not a fan of the ex-coach), but before Gordon was even interviewed. Witt happily signed up for the Islanders and Long Island, but obviously not for fire wagon hockey.



His comments to Greg Logan came on the heels of a minus-5 outing against Washington on Tuesday. To us this morning Witt said, “I had a bad night and was minus-5, but I look at those goals and there isn’t anything I would have done differently.”



Whenever you install a new system, there are casualties from the group of holdover players. (A scout at the Coliseum told me two weeks ago, “Mark Streit is the only dman suited to playing Gordon’s system. Maybe Campoli, too.”) The question now is whether the Islanders move Witt to another NHL team for fair value, and whether they can.



If Witt had not signed the extension through 2010-11 - even at a reasonable $3 mill a year - he would be much easier to trade. Compound the remaining two years on his deal with the perception of his unhappiness, and Garth Snow may no longer be in position to demand a good price.



If Logan’s blog entry from today’s 12:30 pm EST skate in Minnesota isn’t about Witt and Gordon hugging it out - and the coach saying all the right things about his respected defenseman - the hole only gets deeper.





ETC: After the morning workout in Minnesota, I hope to have information on line combinations and scratches for tonight and will add to this pre-game story.

This brings me to two questions/points...

1- What exactly is our "defensive system" in our own end? I've not seen or heard anything about the philosophy other than "overspeed" which to me is more about the forecheck and neutral ice and in the o-zone and not so detailed in our own.

2- I respect Witt for what he said and the fact that he "tried to keep in internal". It does sound like there is a philosophical difference between some of the vets...Witt, Comrie and Gordon.

It seems to me the issue is...

A- Do you use a system that fits the players you have this year (as Witt said)

OR

B- Do you continue to use the system that you want and over the next two-three years bring in the players that will fit that system and move the vets you have that won't?

I've seen coaches be successful with A and I've seen coaches be successful with B. Gordon seems to be going with B and using it as a way of gaging which Isles should be here for the longer haul and which shouldn't. The problem is, you are banking that you will be the coach for more than two years and that it will show results. Also, if your current players don't all get on board, how do you handle a mutiny if it comes up?

Regardless, it is clear to me that Gordon needs to do a better job communicating and selling to vets, but also needs to take into account what the players are saying. Witt has been in the nhl for 10+ years and is a good defensemen, respected around the league and in the lockerroom. Players look up to him. Only a fool wouldn't listen to someone like that.

I'm not calling Gordon a fool or calling for his job. Waaaaay too soon for that. However, if you just "run a system" and don't tweak it, adjust it for many variables, you aren't a coach...you are a programmer.

We need a coach.

I saw during our good stretch in Nov what overspeed can do, but when teams figure it out, how do you then adjust and tweak it. It worked against crap teams like Ottawa, will it work against good ones like Detroit?
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7th Woman
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20 years in the front office with the team as their personal concierge will get you places that reporters can't go. (any reporter.) That's why Botta's information is always more thorough, more personal and more exact. He doesn't fall under the confines of "Five minutes, gentlemen." and "Two more questions."

When he wants to get to someone, he just picks up his phone.

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nyifancentral
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7th Woman,Dec 19 2008
12:24 PM
20 years in the front office with the team as their personal concierge will get you places that reporters can't go. (any reporter.) That's why Botta's information is always more thorough, more personal and more exact. He doesn't fall under the confines of "Five minutes, gentlemen." and "Two more questions."

When he wants to get to someone, he just picks up his phone.

That's too easy and you know it. You trying to say Mr Logan had no room in the paper or time to ask Witt if he wanted to be traded and if he is happy here?

You take comments as Mr Logan took from Witt it should absolutely be included with the line of questioning. He had today's article and the Insider and still did not get that for the fans.

You like Jason Blake? For months we read nothing about how much he loved the Islanders and wanted to stay until his hat-trick after the trade deadline where he stood at center ice and told everyone he wanted to stay.

Then Newsday finally reported it

For months all we got was Blake wanted out prior to that from Mr Logan.
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nyifancentral
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* This brings me to two questions/points...

* 1- What exactly is our "defensive system" in our own end? I've not seen or heard anything about the philosophy other than "overspeed" which to me is more about the forecheck and neutral ice and in the o-zone and not so detailed in our own.

Best question asked I have seen to date. I have no answer to that one either.
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nyifancentral,Dec 19 2008
01:35 PM
You like Jason Blake? For months we read nothing about how much he loved the Islanders and wanted to stay until his hat-trick after the trade deadline where he stood at center ice and told everyone he wanted to stay.

Then Newsday finally reported it

For months all we got was Blake wanted out prior to that from Mr Logan.

Nope. Not true. For months Jason said he wanted an ANSWER and to where he was going. Not that he wanted OUT. They wouldn't talk to him or his agent about his contract. He went to Greg to plead his case in the paper. Greg asked him "Are you SURE you want to do this?" he said YES.

Jason wanted to know where he and his family and baby on the way would be living for the next five years. Greg did not make up a story that Blake wanted to leave. Blake told him "If they don't want me here, then I'll leave."

Sad part was, they didn't want him as much as he wanted them. They still don't... no matter how much I beg, bribe or plead.
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