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Snow Supports Gordon; via IPB
Topic Started: Dec 21 2008, 11:43 PM (867 Views)
Mulefan
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2nd line
viking,Dec 22 2008
12:47 AM
Gordon is a last person to blame ¡Kfeel bad for a guy ƒ¼

I agree. Gordon wouldn't have been my first choice, but Al Arbour and Scotty Bowman would have gotten their a$$e$ kicked with this roster. If we really want to build this team up though we are just gonna have to watch terrible hockey for a while. Or we can trade Okposo, Bailey and any other top prospects and picks we have for some mediocre veterans. Then we can make the eighth playoff spot, get two home playoff sellouts and be on the golf course after four games.

Sound familiar?????
Pete
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Mulefan,Dec 22 2008
01:32 PM
viking,Dec 22 2008
12:47 AM
Gordon is a last person to blame ¡Kfeel bad for a guy  ƒ¼

I agree. Gordon wouldn't have been my first choice, but Al Arbour and Scotty Bowman would have gotten their a$$e$ kicked with this roster. If we really want to build this team up though we are just gonna have to watch terrible hockey for a while. Or we can trade Okposo, Bailey and any other top prospects and picks we have for some mediocre veterans. Then we can make the eighth playoff spot, get two home playoff sellouts and be on the golf course after four games.

Sound familiar?????

If Garth Snow believed in patience.
Okposo would have still been in College or at the very least Bridgeport.
Bailey would be back in Windsor and currently at the world jr's.
And we could still be competing with the Bolts for the 1st overall pick.

Chris Dey needs to keep pappa Wang up to date with financial #'s so they have to market hope for the future besides the Lighthouse project.


I'll be patient, but I WON'T be silent.
The kool aid they're serving is highly caffeinated.


:)
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LEDZEP
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The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
02:40 PM
Mulefan,Dec 22 2008
01:32 PM
viking,Dec 22 2008
12:47 AM
Gordon is a last person to blame ¡Kfeel bad for a guy  ƒ¼

I agree. Gordon wouldn't have been my first choice, but Al Arbour and Scotty Bowman would have gotten their a$$e$ kicked with this roster. If we really want to build this team up though we are just gonna have to watch terrible hockey for a while. Or we can trade Okposo, Bailey and any other top prospects and picks we have for some mediocre veterans. Then we can make the eighth playoff spot, get two home playoff sellouts and be on the golf course after four games.

Sound familiar?????

If Garth Snow believed in patience.
Okposo would have still been in College or at the very least Bridgeport.
Bailey would be back in Windsor and currently at the world jr's.
And we could still be competing with the Bolts for the 1st overall pick.

Chris Dey needs to keep pappa Wang up to date with financial #'s so they have to market hope for the future besides the Lighthouse project.


I'll be patient, but I WON'T be silent.
The kool aid they're serving is highly caffeinated.


:)

Is CJ Papa wearing lipstick to fill the void of DEB :letssee:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
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Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Mulefan
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2nd line
Another thing. Over the summer as I watched this forum all I read were posts about what a great out of the box choice Gordon was.

How we are now on the right track going with mostly youth!

How everyone was gonna be patient this time and watch the youth develop!

How everyone was gonna deal with all of the losing in order to stock the system with talent!

How everyone wants Tavares in next years's draft!

Well, you're not gonna draft him unless you are the worst or one of the worst teams. We are less than 1/2 year into this so called plan and everyone here who were preaching patience are jumping ship already. This is typical of Islander fans and will perpetuate the losing cycle again. If you keep bitching loud enough we will end up causing another paranoid GM trying to save their job to switch plans once again and we will end up with more Yashins and Lindens at the expense of the youth everyone claimed they wanted.

If you hate the product enough, stop going to the games. Then Wang will have his excuse to sell and move the team. Hell, he already has a good excuse losing so much money every year. I'm surprised he hasn't jumped ship yet being that the 'Lighthouse Project' is never gonna happen in this economy. Either he builds a new or renovated Colliseum himself and continues to lose money even when it's done or he sells the team and they move to a destination where they can survive and maybe even thrive. I'm willing to bet that a brand spanking new Colliseum with increased ticket prices would be hard pressed to sell out on opening night unless a very good team were being iced.

So what exacty do all of you people want???? Do you want to have some patience and have a good team in a couple of years whether it is on Long Island or somewhere else????? Or do you want to continue this door matt existance forever?????
Pete
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
LEDZEP,Dec 22 2008
01:45 PM
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
02:40 PM
Mulefan,Dec 22 2008
01:32 PM
viking,Dec 22 2008
12:47 AM
Gordon is a last person to blame ¡Kfeel bad for a guy  ƒ¼

I agree. Gordon wouldn't have been my first choice, but Al Arbour and Scotty Bowman would have gotten their a$$e$ kicked with this roster. If we really want to build this team up though we are just gonna have to watch terrible hockey for a while. Or we can trade Okposo, Bailey and any other top prospects and picks we have for some mediocre veterans. Then we can make the eighth playoff spot, get two home playoff sellouts and be on the golf course after four games.

Sound familiar?????

If Garth Snow believed in patience.
Okposo would have still been in College or at the very least Bridgeport.
Bailey would be back in Windsor and currently at the world jr's.
And we could still be competing with the Bolts for the 1st overall pick.

Chris Dey needs to keep pappa Wang up to date with financial #'s so they have to market hope for the future besides the Lighthouse project.


I'll be patient, but I WON'T be silent.
The kool aid they're serving is highly caffeinated.


:)

Is CJ Papa wearing lipstick to fill the void of DEB :letssee:

ahhhh, another bastid.
Not you LEDZEP,
CJ papa.

last 2 games in a row,
ole robot boy has made 2 huge blunders.

He would be better off just being himself. I've met him and talked to him on kid's day at the Colseum. off camera he's such a nice guy with personality.
On camera he's a a stiff.
Loosen up.


I miss Deb.

:yes:
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Mulefan,Dec 22 2008
01:52 PM
Another thing. Over the summer as I watched this forum all I read were posts about what a great out of the box choice Gordon was.

How we are now on the right track going with mostly youth!

How everyone was gonna be patient this time and watch the youth develop!

How everyone was gonna deal with all of the losing in order to stock the system with talent!

How everyone wants Tavares in next years's draft!

Well, you're not gonna draft him unless you are the worst or one of the worst teams. We are less than 1/2 year into this so called plan and everyone here who were preaching patience are jumping ship already. This is typical of Islander fans and will perpetuate the losing cycle again. If you keep bitching loud enough we will end up causing another paranoid GM trying to save their job to switch plans once again and we will end up with more Yashins and Lindens at the expense of the youth everyone claimed they wanted.

If you hate the product enough, stop going to the games. Then Wang will have his excuse to sell and move the team. Hell, he already has a good excuse losing so much money every year. I'm surprised he hasn't jumped ship yet being that the 'Lighthouse Project' is never gonna happen in this economy. Either he builds a new or renovated Colliseum himself and continues to lose money even when it's done or he sells the team and they move to a destination where they can survive and maybe even thrive. I'm willing to bet that a brand spanking new Colliseum would be hard pressed to sell out on opening night unless a very good team were being iced.

So what exacty do all of you people want???? Do you want to have some patience and have a good team in a couple of years whether it is on Long Island or somewhere else????? Or do you want to continue this door matt existance forever?????

Mulefan...tell us, whats your other screen name?

:letssee: :rotflmao:
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nyifancentral
4th line
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
01:40 PM
If Garth Snow believed in patience.
Okposo would have still been in College or at the very least Bridgeport.

Bailey would be back in Windsor and currently at the world jr's.
And we could still be competing with the Bolts for the 1st overall pick.

Chris Dey needs to keep pappa Wang up to date with financial #'s so they have to market hope for the future besides the Lighthouse project.


I'll be patient, but I WON'T be silent.
The kool aid they're serving is highly caffeinated.


:)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

Garth Snow showed more patience with Okposo than every other pick taken ahead of him in his draft class by other general managers. He was last to finally play in the NHL.

No team with a pick playing in the NHL demoted their Canadian prospects to go play in the WJC for Canada so why should the Isles be different with Bailey?

Seems Snow is doing exactly what his counterparts are doing once they make the decision to bring up the first rounder.

For an organization that takes a beating for being unconventional they sure get a lot of grief when they act like everyone else too.
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4CUPZ
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:angrier: :angrier: :angrier: :angrier: :angrier:
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Webb20
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Godfather
It's not losing games, it's not the youth movement, it's not drafting first. It's the damn system. I want to see our coach make modification with the personnel we have to improve our defensive game. As the season wears on we're getting worse, letting up more shots, more odd man rushes, we're running around more with each game. I want a coach who can teach the young and motivate the old. Who actually has a defense stratagy, not a defense based on where we play an aggresive forecheck in the offensive zone, because we havent played there much lately, were lost in our zone and we're leaving guys open in front of our net, chasing the puck, and can't clear the zone. We try to chip the puck off the boards or loft it out in hopes something good comes by it instead of working to take control of the puck and using an organized breakout. Youth, vets, fill ins....this is the NHL and there are certain basic things we should have down by now, regardless of where the rebuild is at or how many injuries we have.

I dont mind a rebuild, it's ok, but to me it's not in the right hands.
I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
nyifancentral,Dec 22 2008
01:57 PM
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
01:40 PM
If Garth Snow believed in patience.
Okposo would have still been in College or at the very least Bridgeport.

Bailey would be back in Windsor and currently at the world jr's.
And we could still be competing with the Bolts for the 1st overall pick.

Chris Dey needs to keep pappa Wang up to date with financial #'s so they have to market hope for the future besides the Lighthouse project.


I'll be patient, but I WON'T be silent.
The kool aid they're serving is highly caffeinated.


:)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

Garth Snow showed more patience with Okposo than every other pick taken ahead of him in his draft class by other general managers. He was last to finally play in the NHL.

No team with a pick playing in the NHL demoted their Canadian prospects to go play in the WJC for Canada so why should the Isles be different with Bailey?

Seems Snow is doing exactly what his counterparts are doing once they make the decision to bring up the first rounder.

For an organization that takes a beating for being unconventional they sure get a lot of grief when they act like everyone else too.

No NHL GM has ever publicly blasted a college program.

:rofl:

yes, garth was right. Kyle is better off.
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

look at hockeydb stats....look

I say, look on the ice... are they really any better learning in this environment with this sh!tty system that has no fundamental defensive strategy?

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4CUPZ
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EmptyNet,Dec 22 2008
12:43 AM
http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2008/12...ill-not-change/

Hmm, get rid of Snow & Gordon.

Off w/their heads.

GET RID OF ALL THREE
THEY ALL SUCK
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Mulefan
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2nd line
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
01:54 PM
Mulefan,Dec 22 2008
01:52 PM
Another thing. Over the summer as I watched this forum all I read were posts about what a great out of the box choice Gordon was.

How we are now on the right track going with mostly youth!

How everyone was gonna be patient this time and watch the youth develop!

How everyone was gonna deal with all of the losing in order to stock the system with talent!

How everyone wants Tavares in next years's draft!

Well, you're not gonna draft him unless you are the worst or one of the worst teams. We are less than 1/2 year into this so called plan and everyone here who were preaching patience are jumping ship already. This is typical of Islander fans and will perpetuate the losing cycle again. If you keep bitching loud enough we will end up causing another paranoid GM trying to save their job to switch plans once again and we will end up with more Yashins and Lindens at the expense of the youth everyone claimed they wanted.

If you hate the product enough, stop going to the games. Then Wang will have his excuse to sell and move the team. Hell, he already has a good excuse losing so much money every year. I'm surprised he hasn't jumped ship yet being that the 'Lighthouse Project' is never gonna happen in this economy. Either he builds a new or renovated Colliseum himself and continues to lose money even when it's done or he sells the team and they move to a destination where they can survive and maybe even thrive. I'm willing to bet that a brand spanking new Colliseum would be hard pressed to sell out on opening night unless a very good team were being iced.

So what exacty do all of you people want???? Do you want to have some patience and have a good team in a couple of years whether it is on Long Island or somewhere else????? Or do you want to continue this door matt existance forever?????

Mulefan...tell us, whats your other screen name?

:letssee: :rotflmao:

I don't have another screen name, but I used to. If you can guess I will tell you!

And I will tell you this. I have been a NY Islander fan for 33 years and nobody wants to see them thrive more than me. I thought Snow was a terrible choice as GM and didn't like the choice of Gordon either. But when I looked on this site all I read were people praising the hire. It just seems that every choice this organization make are always praised here at first only to be blasted by the same posters later. How about a little consistensy?

This back and forth philosophy is why this organization never goes anywhere. It is why we haven't won a playoff series since 1993. Keep on flip flopping and it will be another 15 years before we win another one. That is if they are still playing on Long Island.
Pete
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Overspeed
1st line
If Gordons system is so great and he was in Providence for such a long time, how come he was never considered for Bostons head coach job and do the Bruins currently play the Overspeed system at the NHL level? Afterall its supposed to be good enough to be taught throughout our system too. If not, why?
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Mulefan
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Webb20,Dec 22 2008
02:02 PM
It's not losing games, it's not the youth movement, it's not drafting first. It's the damn system. I want to see our coach make modification with the personnel we have to improve our defensive game. As the season wears on we're getting worse, letting up more shots, more odd man rushes, we're running around more with each game. I want a coach who can teach the young and motivate the old. Who actually has a defense stratagy, not a defense based on where we play an aggresive forecheck in the offensive zone, because we havent played there much lately, were lost in our zone and we're leaving guys open in front of our net, chasing the puck, and can't clear the zone. We try to chip the puck off the boards or loft it out in hopes something good comes by it instead of working to take control of the puck and using an organized breakout. Youth, vets, fill ins....this is the NHL and there are certain basic things we should have down by now, regardless of where the rebuild is at or how many injuries we have.

I dont mind a rebuild, it's ok, but to me it's not in the right hands.

And if Gordon changes the system that everyone was raving about earlier in the season, what system do you want to replace it and what is your goal for it. Do you want to improve enough to squeek into the final playoff spot and get a cr@ppy draft slot after being ousted in the first round??? Or do you want a top draft slot and continue stocking the system???

If we really want to rebuild the team properly we are gonna have to be really bad for a couple of years and load up our system or we can keep spinning our wheels forever. It comes down to this. Do you want to root for a winning organization in a couple of years or do you want to stay as we have for the last 15 years. There are no quick fixes. It is either be patient or give up!!!
Pete
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Islander4cups
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nyifancentral,Dec 22 2008
01:31 PM
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
12:52 PM
nyifancentral,Dec 22 2008
12:46 PM
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
12:31 PM
Chabot and Lacroix were already retained before Gordon was announced.

How exactly was Gordon given any chance to name ANY of his coaches?

This is a mish mosh of nonsense.

How do you know Gordon was not allowed to pick anyone?

Gallant was already retained too, did not stop him from being reassigned.

All we know is Gordon wanted Murray and the Bruins did not allow it because he was already named the new Providence coach.

I don't, what I DO know is when they announced Nolan's release, they said, excuse GARTH SNOW himself said, both Chabot and Lacroix would return.

How the F could ANY coach come in and feel as if he has complete control?

My argument and frustration isn't with you. It's with Garth. We are a mickey mouse org.
No doubt about that.

No frustration or argument with you either Steve, we just do not agree on this one.

Actually the release at the time said the assistants are expected to return.

Let's remember this was all announced the same day the Islanders opened mini-camp in July with these people working.

It was not handled well by Snow or Nolan, both lied about their ability to work together several times. We can speculate a lot about who did what when but at some point Snow had enough, Nolan had enough or Wang finally decided to endorse the general managers actions and let him pick his own coach and pay Nolan 600k to go home.

In Chicago the drama dragged on all summer with Savard fired after four games because of his contract, the gm Tallon is essentially a lame duck with Quenneville taking a job as a scout then being named head coach.

My guess is we will not know and because Gordon was such a late hire he may not get his assistants until next summer.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/LosAn...6349781-cp.html

Terry Murray was the other late hire in Los Angeles, only new coach brought in was former King Mark Hardy with all the others promoted from within for the new coach.

Murray had his staff promoted from within for him and this is someone with decades experience and a lot of hockey ties.

Terry Murray have any ties to Mark Hardy who was an assistant with Chicago?

How is Chicago's GM a "lame duck"?
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Islander4cups
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stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
02:04 PM
nyifancentral,Dec 22 2008
01:57 PM
stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
01:40 PM
If Garth Snow believed in patience.
Okposo would have still been in College or at the very least Bridgeport.

Bailey would be back in Windsor and currently at the world jr's.
And we could still be competing with the Bolts for the 1st overall pick.

Chris Dey needs to keep pappa Wang up to date with financial #'s so they have to market hope for the future besides the Lighthouse project.


I'll be patient, but I WON'T be silent.
The kool aid they're serving is highly caffeinated.


:)

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2006e.html

Garth Snow showed more patience with Okposo than every other pick taken ahead of him in his draft class by other general managers. He was last to finally play in the NHL.

No team with a pick playing in the NHL demoted their Canadian prospects to go play in the WJC for Canada so why should the Isles be different with Bailey?

Seems Snow is doing exactly what his counterparts are doing once they make the decision to bring up the first rounder.

For an organization that takes a beating for being unconventional they sure get a lot of grief when they act like everyone else too.

No NHL GM has ever publicly blasted a college program.

:rofl:

yes, garth was right. Kyle is better off.
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

look at hockeydb stats....look

I say, look on the ice... are they really any better learning in this environment with this sh!tty system that has no fundamental defensive strategy?

Except 4 other teams also signed a player mid way through last year's NCAA season and not a single one of those coaches said a peep about the Canadiens, Sabres or the other two teams (I think it was Calgary and STL).

Also, how often have the NCAA coach started with the commentary, then cried when the nhl gm responded to it?
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Webb20
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Mulefan,Dec 22 2008
02:27 PM
Webb20,Dec 22 2008
02:02 PM
It's not losing games, it's not the youth movement, it's not drafting first.  It's the damn system.  I want to see our coach make modification with the personnel we have to improve our defensive game.  As the season wears on we're getting worse, letting up more shots, more odd man rushes, we're running around more with each game.  I want a coach who can teach the young and motivate the old.  Who actually has a defense stratagy, not a defense based on where we play an aggresive forecheck in the offensive zone, because we havent played there much lately, were lost in our zone and we're leaving guys open in front of our net, chasing the puck, and can't clear the zone.  We try to chip the puck off the boards or loft it out in hopes something good comes by it instead of working to take control of the puck and using an organized breakout.  Youth, vets, fill ins....this is the NHL and there are certain basic things we should have down by now, regardless of where the rebuild is at or how many injuries we have.

I dont mind a rebuild, it's ok, but to me it's not in the right hands.

And if Gordon changes the system that everyone was raving about earlier in the season, what system do you want to replace it and what is your goal for it. Do you want to improve enough to squeek into the final playoff spot and get a cr@ppy draft slot after being ousted in the first round??? Or do you want a top draft slot and continue stocking the system???

If we really want to rebuild the team properly we are gonna have to be really bad for a couple of years and load up our system or we can keep spinning our wheels forever. It comes down to this. Do you want to root for a winning organization in a couple of years or do you want to stay as we have for the last 15 years. There are no quick fixes. It is either be patient or give up!!!

So you be bad for a couple of seasons by playing a losing system? And ingrain into the players of our roster how to fail so it becomes second nature? Tell me you're not for real.

We can show improvement in the systems we play, in the progress our younger players make and still finish last. Believe me, we have very little talent so even if we improved, we'll still settle at the level of our talent over 82 games.

I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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thew8511
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Soon we may be able to say...We're number 1" (Draft pick) Let's SELL, SELL, SELL!!
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Webb20,Dec 22 2008
05:59 PM
So you be bad for a couple of seasons by playing a losing system? And ingrain into the players of our roster how to fail so it becomes second nature? Tell me you're not for real.

We can show improvement in the systems we play, in the progress our younger players make and still finish last. Believe me, we have very little talent so even if we improved, we'll still settle at the level of our talent over 82 games.

You make a very good point because if it is determined that this system ain't the system in two years, it means the kids... Bergie, Okposo, Bailey will be playing in it for no reason and also might develop habits that are either bad or don't mesh with whatever new system is to follow.

However, I'm kinda exhausted with talk of systems. In my mind, it doesn't matter what system you play. The "overspeed" system at least offensively isn't much different that what the USA developmental program has instituted...especially with defensemen aggressively jumping up on the play.

My problem is this...didn't Witt last year complain about the defensive system Nolan was using somewhere in Dec? Perhaps it isn't systems? Perhaps it is a combination of a poor defensive system in our own end and also a lack of talent on the blueline.

I don't care what system you use. There is no system that tells Bruno Gervais to constantly try to pinch in at the opponents blueline (when he was starting at the center redline) and get neither the puck nor the puck carrier, resulting in countless 2/3 v. 1's headed towards our own end. This kid hasn't broken that habit in three years and he's been playing in overspeed for less than a half season. The system hasn't caused Brendan Witt to suddenly missed puckcarries coming wide into our end whereas in years past he'd paste them into the boards.

I'll be the first to admit I don't understand the goal/philosophy of overspeed...at least in our own end. But at the same time, most "systems" I've encountered have basic tenents that they adhere to and they are all pretty similar= 1. Don't leave your feet to block passes when you are covering a man in front (Gervais, Martinek, Campoli do it all the time), 2. Force the puckcarrier wide and use the boards as a 3rd defender (Gervais, Martinek and Witt have not been good at this this season), 3. Defensemen takes man in low slot/ center takes man in high slot (Gervais, Campoli, Pock) lose many of these battles, 4. First man in corner takes body second man in corner takes puck (again Gervais doesn't have the upper body strength to do this. Neither does Martinek. The manage to turn the puckcarrier up the sidewall, but never pin him to the boards causing a turnover), 5. Win the battles "at home plate". This is the EASIEST concept in hockey but the Isles are terrible at it and have been since 01-02. Draw a line from the goal to each faceoff dot (you now have the bottom of home plate). Then draw a line from each face off dot to the top of the circle. Then connect those lines across the slot to the top of the circles. You've just drawn home plate) 80% of all goals are scored inside home plate. We rarely cover it well.

These are basics of defensive hockey, but under Nolan, Sterling and Lavy's last year we were not good at them. I'd say it is a combo of a lack of talent and coaching.

jmho
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nyifancentral
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stevedepot,Dec 22 2008
02:04 PM
No NHL GM has ever publicly blasted a college program.

:rofl:

yes, garth was right. Kyle is better off.
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

look at hockeydb stats....look

I say, look on the ice... are they really any better learning in this environment with this sh!tty system that has no fundamental defensive strategy?

Don Lucia acted unprofessional and insulted the Islanders when Okposo left school, then Snow fired back.

What was Lucia doing trying to make Okposo a center when he was a right wing? He was lost for half a season and a lot of people connected with Minnesota wondered what the coach was doing?

Even his parents were critical.

Not the first time Lucia spoke out against an NHL organization either.
http://old.mndaily.com/articles/2006/04/25/68192

Lucia and Snow made up and drafted Aron Ness who plays there now.

So Steve where do you want them to develop and when should they come up? Obviously not here or now, should they be with Capuano who's playing Scott Gordon's system?
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