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It's not the "system"
Topic Started: Dec 19 2008, 10:51 PM (1,565 Views)
EmptyNet
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shoot to score & play to win
So I don't know what kind of system we're really trying to have here, but we don't have it. Does whatever Gordon is doing need to be re-evaluated at the NHL level? You bet your booty it does, seriously. For a system that supposedly is about offense and excitement we really don't have any.

BUT

That's a cop out in a way, this season is about the start of a rebuilding process, and none of our rookies are doing anything. It wouldn't be so disappointing if we had a young star doing something. Watching the game tonight I thought, would I mind this all over the place type of hockey if one of the youngsters were on fire or showing signs of life? I think I hate to watch them lose but really there is nothing to take solace in. I mean really, no kid is doing anything worth anything, no veteran is either, maybe it relates back to the system, but talent at some level is talent and someone should be shining through. I don't know if they're trying and just really suck, or if they're so lost in this half-butt system their efforts don't show, or if they just don't care.

The only thing I know watching this team is that everyone gets hurt. System and rookies be dammed. I just want to feel something watching them, see something new from someone.

This is bad, Gordon sucks and I think our rookies might suck too.
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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I think part of it is the system. It last 60 minutes in the AHL because of the skill level, and the average age. It fails consistently in the third period because the other teams see through it, and the current roster can't keep the momentum. The system used to produce goals in the first two periods. The second period used to be our best, but now we struggle to get 1 goal, then throw the puck at the net from poor angles with the pipe dream of getting players to the front. No one is in the front, and the angles suck.

I know I say that losses like this happen, and it is a rebuilding season, but wow is it hard to swallow as a fan--can't imagine what it is like in that locker room. Some kind of roster shake-up has to happen. Roll four complete lines for 60 minutes. Don't bring up Fritz to warm the bench in case someone wants to schedule a fight.

I share the sentiment of how much it sucks to see our rookies doing nothing this month. It is a bad month, a very bad month. If they lose the rest of the month, I hope the new year brings some joy. Islanders... all I want for Christmas are some wins.
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EmptyNet
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shoot to score & play to win
You're right, after I posted that I think we need a new system, one that teaches the youngsters how to play hockey. Was Nolan that bad for Okposo? Is it me or did he look better during those 9 games last year than he looked all year this season?

say it loud and proud, gordon and his system suck moose balls.
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Snowy
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The Dark Knight
Again, what did any of you expect? We all knew how bad this team was going to be before the season even started and now they're being exactly that: terrible.
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EmptyNet
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shoot to score & play to win
Snowman39,Dec 20 2008
12:08 AM
Again, what did any of you expect? We all knew how bad this team was going to be before the season even started and now they're being exactly that: terrible.

For me, after 2 + months I'd of liked to see some improvement from the rookies. Just something (aside from a lottery position) to hang my hope hat on.
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Tinman31
Right On Time.
WHY no Comeau tonight?
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EmptyNet
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shoot to score & play to win
Tinman31,Dec 20 2008
12:19 AM
WHY no Comeau tonight?

It's that Gordon system of rebuilding.. you know the one where you sit a rookie?!?
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fastymctalent55
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The fans who are disappointed are too close to this right now. They want to see improvement from rookies over the span of 2 months, that's not going to happen, improvement of these players is a very slow process you have to wait a long time to see it.

This is exactly what we all knew we were in for at the beginning of the year.

It's understandable to be frustrated with losing every game, but in the long run, that's a good thing.

If it's getting you down maybe it's time to start skipping a few games and taking a step back.

This is going to be a long, painful process.
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John Tavares does it all...
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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I ignored the 05-06 season because it was crap, and I've been trying to not ignore the Islanders, but I think it might be better to forget for a while.

There is a lighthouse somewhere at the end of the tunnel, and the rookies will find themselves. Something will happen, but it is going to get worse before it gets better.
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nyifancentral
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fastymctalent55,Dec 19 2008
11:24 PM
The fans who are disappointed are too close to this right now. They want to see improvement from rookies over the span of 2 months, that's not going to happen, improvement of these players is a very slow process you have to wait a long time to see it.

This is exactly what we all knew we were in for at the beginning of the year.

It's understandable to be frustrated with losing every game, but in the long run, that's a good thing.

If it's getting you down maybe it's time to start skipping a few games and taking a step back.

This is going to be a long, painful process.

A lot of this is the system, there is no doubt it. Rick Bowness, Goring and Bill Stewart got a better collective effort then we saw tonight.

So did coach Milbury.

Minnesota came into this game struggling on offense on a six game losing streak and without MacDonald it's a 9-1 game.

It's getting a lot worse and it's not rebuilding or a youth movement. The Islanders looked like a group of strangers that got beat to the puck and beat up in the trenches, Guerin, Weight and Bergenheim were eaten alive at even strength.

And this was not so Comeau-Bailey-Okposo could skate as a line, it was so Richard Park could see more prime time and Tim Jackman and Andy Hilbert could be key players.

That is a waste of time along with Fritz being glued to the bench while Comeau is in the stands.

Gordon moved Okposo to the left and admitted it was a mistake when he struggled, Comeau came up and look just like last year against Atlanta, scored against Philadeplhia then he was shifted to right wing and Gordon criticized his backchecking and now he is on the bench so Jon Sim (a player put on waivers) can go in the spot and right back on the powerplay?

I'm not concered with losing at this point but how they are losing, nothing is being learned or built upon from this.

This is a far better roster than what it's showing in games, rookie coach or not this is the kind of team play that gets any coach fired at any stage. That looked like a pickup team tonight and it was not because of going with youth.
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Mulefan
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I just don't know what system you all think will work any better with this roster. All of the skill we have is green and undeveloped. This is only the beginning of the pain. You are gonna have to take a big gulp because it ain't gonna get pretty any time soon. Unless you want to trade the only comodities worth anything in our organization for a past their prime(Linden) or over hyped(Yashin) veterans. And the Islander legacy will continue and we will be losers forever.

I'm not so sure about the system. I wasn't really a fan of Gordon. I never heard of him before we hired him. But what do you expect from a GM that was hired right out of the net. We have been there and done that before with Don Maloney. Wang should have left Neil Smith alone to do what he was hired to do. I garuntee we would have been better off now. I respect Wang for trying to keep this team here, but he needs to hire a capable GM and then keep his nose out of it.

But for the love of God, if you're gonna make changes, don't trade any of the talented youth. Trade the veterans, can the coach, fire the GM, but leave the youth alone and add more if you can.
Pete
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Westfall18
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it all comes down to this...you need to have the right people in order for the "overspeed" system to work. we just don't have it.
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William H. McCue Sr. 1934-2015 Rest in Peace Poppa.
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Mariner81
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Nothing looks positive. Garth either has to resign or get canned.
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7th Woman
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Westfall18,Dec 20 2008
04:05 AM
it all comes down to this...you need to have the right people in order for the "overspeed" system to work. we just don't have it.

Westfall... I just had this conversation with my husband.

And Mariner, why can Garth? Just let him get the right talent.. of which we have NONE.
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JimC1972
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Westfall18,Dec 20 2008
03:05 AM
it all comes down to this...you need to have the right people in order for the "overspeed" system to work. we just don't have it.

I've been saying that for a while. You have a system that fits the players; you don't try to mold the players into the system. Especially one like this when we're gassed the 3rd period. I knew we'd be bad but not like this. This is worse than last year.
If you see someone down on the ground, you lend them a hand. Unless they're a Rangers fan, then you kick them in the face.
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Isles75
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That's it, it's the system! People, please the NHL of today is all about speed and we lack that big time. We also lack a lot of real talent. The Capitals, Penguins, hell even some of the Rangers squad would make the overspeed system a huge success for 100 minutes, let alone 60 minutes.

Hopefully, while we are suffering through this season some of the bright spots playing with us now and down in the system continue to progess and it will get better. patience.
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It is time for Gary Bettman to declare the Islanders are in a State of Emergency and the NHL will simply
not allow the current ownership to maintain the franchise as currently neglected.

Wang and Snow can handle things! They're smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... they're smart and they want respect!
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Webb20
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nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
12:25 AM

A lot of this is the system, there is no doubt it. Rick Bowness, Goring and Bill Stewart got a better collective effort then we saw tonight.

So did coach Milbury. 

Minnesota came into this game struggling on offense on a six game losing streak and without MacDonald it's a 9-1 game.

It's getting a lot worse and it's not rebuilding or a youth movement. The Islanders looked like a group of strangers that got beat to the puck and beat up in the trenches, Guerin, Weight and Bergenheim were eaten alive at even strength.

And this was not so Comeau-Bailey-Okposo could skate as a line, it was so Richard Park could see more prime time and Tim Jackman and Andy Hilbert could be key players. 

That is a waste of time along with Fritz being glued to the bench while Comeau is in the stands.

Gordon moved Okposo to the left and admitted it was a mistake when he struggled, Comeau came up and look just like last year against Atlanta,  scored against Philadeplhia then he was shifted to right wing and Gordon criticized his backchecking and now he is on the bench so Jon Sim (a player put on waivers) can go in the spot and right back on the powerplay?

I'm not concered with losing at this point but how they are losing, nothing is being learned or built upon from this.

This is a far better roster than what it's showing in games, rookie coach or not this is the kind of team play that gets any coach fired at any stage. That looked like a pickup team tonight and it was not because of going with youth.

If I didnt know any better you'd think I wrote this post. Why the turnaround from yesterday fancental?

I was crucified by some about my criticism of Gordon when I said he wont be our coach next season and may not finish this season. I still stand by that as I dont think this guy and his system is the answer to develop the future NY Islanders.

I dont think we were ever farther away from being an contender since 1972. He's got us running in circles, expending unecessary energy, and looking worse than an AHL team.

There is a simple game plan out there to play us and our coach hasnt come up with anything new to counter. He's an AHL coach and he looks like one and also looks like a dear in headlights.

If Garth fired him tomorrow I wouldnt be upset, in fact I applaud it.

Was Fritz in the lineup? I dont remember seeing him on the ice, and if that was true, then why was Comeau not even in the lineup?

Can Brendan Witt be any slower? Why was Bailey and Okposo (who by the way was our best player next to Park) not playing together? Why the hell is Sim still in the lineup? Why were we out shot 50-16.

50-16 against a struggling team. :disgraced:
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nyifancentral
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Webb20,Dec 20 2008
09:38 AM
nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
12:25 AM

A lot of this is the system, there is no doubt it. Rick Bowness, Goring and Bill Stewart got a better collective effort then we saw tonight.

So did coach Milbury. 

Minnesota came into this game struggling on offense on a six game losing streak and without MacDonald it's a 9-1 game.

It's getting a lot worse and it's not rebuilding or a youth movement. The Islanders looked like a group of strangers that got beat to the puck and beat up in the trenches, Guerin, Weight and Bergenheim were eaten alive at even strength.

And this was not so Comeau-Bailey-Okposo could skate as a line, it was so Richard Park could see more prime time and Tim Jackman and Andy Hilbert could be key players. 

That is a waste of time along with Fritz being glued to the bench while Comeau is in the stands.

Gordon moved Okposo to the left and admitted it was a mistake when he struggled, Comeau came up and look just like last year against Atlanta,  scored against Philadeplhia then he was shifted to right wing and Gordon criticized his backchecking and now he is on the bench so Jon Sim (a player put on waivers) can go in the spot and right back on the powerplay?

I'm not concered with losing at this point but how they are losing, nothing is being learned or built upon from this.

This is a far better roster than what it's showing in games, rookie coach or not this is the kind of team play that gets any coach fired at any stage. That looked like a pickup team tonight and it was not because of going with youth.

If I didnt know any better you'd think I wrote this post. Why the turnaround from yesterday fancental?

I was crucified by some about my criticism of Gordon when I said he wont be our coach next season and may not finish this season. I still stand by that as I dont think this guy and his system is the answer to develop the future NY Islanders.

I dont think we were ever farther away from being an contender since 1972. He's got us running in circles, expending unecessary energy, and looking worse than an AHL team.

There is a simple game plan out there to play us and our coach hasnt come up with anything new to counter. He's an AHL coach and he looks like one and also looks like a dear in headlights.

If Garth fired him tomorrow I wouldnt be upset, in fact I applaud it.

Was Fritz in the lineup? I dont remember seeing him on the ice, and if that was true, then why was Comeau not even in the lineup?

Can Brendan Witt be any slower? Why was Bailey and Okposo (who by the way was our best player next to Park) not playing together? Why the hell is Sim still in the lineup? Why were we out shot 50-16.

50-16 against a struggling team. :disgraced:

Webb20,

Not a question of changing anything from yesterday, you are writing and changing comments and headlines to create things that were not said by Mike Comrie.

Things are tough enough without that.

The Islanders did not give up fifty shots last night either.

Tthis system has not had a chance to work with the injuries but it's obvious it's not set up to get the best results from it's current roster regardless who is dressed. A coach has to make adjustments, Scott Gordon has to adjust as other head coaches do at this level or he is at the wrong level.

This collective roster to me is far better than what we have seen, injuries or not.

He is also not working in younger players or putting in the best position to succeed, it's all Park, Hilbert, Jackman while Comeau sits for Fritz while Sim goes from waivers to the powerplay?

Jackman and Walter were the first pk unit. Bergenheim never sees a powerplay but plays on the line with Guerin and Weight?

The more you look at the system, the more you see other clubs pick it apart that cannot even score much. Worst of all it's not creating any five on five goals or even many quality chances and we are talking all season.

Gordon's powerplay with Weight and Streit have been the only positive story.

It's like Nolan's strategy last year where they cannot score but now they are overmatched trying to play defense as well.

Other clubs go right at them and you see them wear down or lose confidence quickly, just looks like something this group (or any NHL team) cannot play at this level, this is why things breakdown in the third period.

Scott Gordon said anyone can play this system and have success, he's not demonstrating this to be true when so many breakdown or slowdown.

AHL you get three games on weekends, Bridgeport has a lot of extra bodies. The comebacks against Bridgeport even with a winning record have been absurd with Michael Fornabaio talking about it often.

This is a better roster on paper than it's showing, the five on five trends are the kind that get any coach fired with any roster.

Fritz never left the bench so Comeau could sit in the stands and not skate on a line with Bailey-Okposo.

If Scott Gordon cannot adjust his system this team is only going to be competitive in games the other club is barely shows up. Right now the club is in a total freefall and it's not about rebuilding or prospects or not being good enough.

Look at the comments about the defensive system when he was hired.
*********************************************************
"He's adamant about playing a tight defensive system. He's going to make a difference, starting with our defensive zone. The neutral-zone forecheck will be different, too. It's going to be a great fit for our players."

Islanders gm Garth Snow, Newsday August 13th

One of the best things is Gordon's commitment to playing a tight defensive system. As DiPietro often has pointed out, the Islanders play their best hockey when they concentrate on protecting their defensive zone. "As far as systems go, my job is to stop the hockey puck," DiPietro said. "But as a goalie, you do get the opportunity to see things in front of you. I'm sure he's going to institute a system that fits our team."

Islander goaltender, Rick DiPietro Newsday August 13th

"We didn't have the team that anybody would've picked to win the amount of games that we did," Gordon said. "It didn't just take coaching Xs and Os, it took the players buying into the system that we play and being accountable to each other. That's kind of the last step in my development as a coach in refining the team chemistry part of it - how to get the guys to want to play for each other.

"I've been able to find what works and doesn't work and been able to do it on a small stage and not have to have the growing pains, hopefully, at the NHL level."


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nyifancentral
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Isles75,Dec 20 2008
09:37 AM
That's it, it's the system! People, please the NHL of today is all about speed and we lack that big time. We also lack a lot of real talent. The Capitals, Penguins, hell even some of the Rangers squad would make the overspeed system a huge success for 100 minutes, let alone 60 minutes.

Hopefully, while we are suffering through this season some of the bright spots playing with us now and down in the system continue to progess and it will get better. patience.

If that's the case a lot of other NHL clubs would play it. Pittsburgh, Rangers and a lot of clubs you wrote about play defense/trap first.

Pens last year went heavy into trap mode down the stretch a year ago. Rangers live and die under Renney's trap and play for the shots disparity advantage.

Question of survival skills in games to pile up points. We saw Isles in 06-07 lose three times (regulation) in twenty games playing that way and it put them in sixth before they traded for Smyth.

The key line? Hilbert-Sillinger-Hunter when Yashin got hurt again.

The same one Scott Gordon played last week.
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25yearfan
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1. I have to assume Scott Gordon is smart enough and man enough to reflect on his system & personnel & make the appropriate adjustments, even with the hardship of #1 goalie out of commission.... If not, team loses a boatload more games without showing signs of progress, Gordon loses team, team loses Gordon. Rinse. Repeat.

2. PERFECT counterpoint by -- Marc-Andre Bergeron -- quoted by Greg Logan in today's blog on Newsday about MAKING ADJUSTMENTS
At the offensive end, Lemaire just asked Bergeron to take his opportunities when he was sure they were good ones but not to force it. "Sometimes, I was trying to rush the puck too much and create something out of nothing," Bergeron said. "He told me, 'It's the NHL and the teams are well-structured. You're not going to be able to skate through the neutral zone every time you're trying. You're going to waste your energy; you're going to be medium in the defensive zone, you're going to be medium in the neutral zone and you're going to be medium in the offensive zone because you're going to be tired all the time you're on the ice. Save your energy so you'll be good in the defensive zone, and whenever your chances come on the power play or a big chance five-on-five, then, it's worth it to do it.' It was true because, when I was getting to the defensive zone, I was tired. I couldn't knock guys off the puck or get a good stick, not because I'm a bad player, but just because I was too tired. Ever since I've been doing this, it's a big difference."


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