Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to NY IslandersCountry. We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join our community!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
It's not the "system"
Topic Started: Dec 19 2008, 10:51 PM (1,569 Views)
Webb20
Member Avatar
Godfather
You're right they didnt have 50 shots. I thought I heard Jaffe near the end of the game say 47 but I was mistaken.

Changes nothing though.

Gordon's team must show improvement as a team (regardless of the personnel he decides to put on the ice) or get him out of there and get someone who can build a club.

I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevedepot
Member Avatar
WISENHEIMER
The system is a joke.
Don't fool yourselves. westfall, I respect you as a poster here and I respect your opinion but I disagree.
You can have the right people in with this system and it will be destined to fail.

Let's stop making excuses for this "system" the same way some made every excuse possible for Tambellini.

No kidding this season was going to be tough. Of course players would need time to adjust.
Of course you have to show resiliency when faced the adversity of injuries.

But when you show very little in 5 on 5 situations for this long a period and the
only breaks you get are when you're on the powerplay. There's something wrong.
When your coach is being slapped in the press by frustrated veterans there's something wrong.
When some of the media surrounding this team tries it's best to sugarcoact the problems, there's something wrong.

This is a critical year and I don't mind looking at the silver lining of getting that 1st round pick.
But if this bastid is going to be forced down my throat as the almighty next best coach in the league with this "system" that doesn't work on our side of the redline then please press the eject button.

Nick, I agree. This moron needs to go. I bet even Tambellini would be better off with a different system and have at leas 1 goal by now.

:dontknow:
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
tsharaf
Member Avatar
You've Just Been Served!
Webb20,Dec 20 2008
10:25 AM
You're right they didnt have 50 shots. I thought I heard Jaffe near the end of the game say 47 but I was mistaken.

Changes nothing though.

Gordon's team must show improvement as a team (regardless of the personnel he decides to put on the ice) or get him out of there and get someone who can build a club.

Some adjustment has to take place. Gordon is supposed to be a genius and a strategy-hound. Well, here is his time to prove it. I seriously hope in his rookie NHL season he is not stumped at this point. The league has made adjustments to his system - now its his turn. You can still play within the overall philosophy of a system and make tweaks here and there.

I don't think it will be productive at this point in the system to abandon everything and start from scratch all over again. But, by all means, PLEASE MAKE WHATEVER ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY IN THE DEFENSIVE ZONE!!!
The Boss - The Greatest Goal Scorer Ever
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevedepot
Member Avatar
WISENHEIMER
tsharaf,Dec 20 2008
10:34 AM
Webb20,Dec 20 2008
10:25 AM
You're right they didnt have 50 shots.  I thought I heard Jaffe near the end of the game say 47 but I was mistaken.

Changes nothing though.

Gordon's team must show improvement as a team (regardless of the personnel he decides to put on the ice) or get him out of there and get someone who can build a club.

Some adjustment has to take place. Gordon is supposed to be a genius and a strategy-hound. Well, here is his time to prove it. I seriously hope in his rookie NHL season he is not stumped at this point. The league has made adjustments to his system - now its his turn. You can still play within the overall philosophy of a system and make tweaks here and there.

I don't think it will be productive at this point in the system to abandon everything and start from scratch all over again. But, by all means, PLEASE MAKE WHATEVER ADJUSTMENTS NECESSARY IN THE DEFENSIVE ZONE!!!

Exactly.

When I heard that he's supposed to be a great X's and O's guy, I said,
"that's great, he's good at tic tac toe, but can the bastid coach in the NHL?"

We just want to see some better strategy, we KNOW the talent pool s lacking,
but a god coach with a good system can at the very least show you some signs of hope
even in defeat.
This bastid has shown nothing in the last 2 weeks.

Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nyifancentral
4th line
Webb20,Dec 20 2008
10:25 AM
You're right they didnt have 50 shots.   I thought I heard Jaffe near the end of the game say 47 but I was mistaken.

Changes nothing though.

Gordon's team must show improvement as a team (regardless of the personnel he decides to put on the ice) or get him out of there and get someone who can build a club.

39 shots Webb 20.

Steve,

Lets see if Gordon can adjust or if this is all he has. We have seen rookie mistakes but will he be too stubborn to adapt is the next question. His mishandling of Fritz against NJ and other games makes me skeptical and that's basic.

He convinced Garth Snow he will create a system to the players benefit and concentrate on defense or that's what folks advertised he will do, lets see if he can do just that.

Given him comments I'm skeptical he will change anything and in that case it may well be time to see to make a change but right now this is nothing more than a fifty game exhibition schedule.

This team given what Streit and Weight has given them should have a much better record and be far more competitive. In some ways Gordon has fallen into Nolan's trap going all in expecting big goals from Park and now Hilbert.

As hard as they work that will not happen.

Jackman for all the character is not going to score or create goals, he wastes a roster spot too and is a career AHL player.

Lets see where Gordon goes next with this. Not easy to change systems without any practice time.

Seems the bubble really popped after that Coliseum Pens game and just took whatever they had going and put the club in a complete freefall in terms of team defense.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevedepot
Member Avatar
WISENHEIMER
nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
10:49 AM
Webb20,Dec 20 2008
10:25 AM
You're right they didnt have 50 shots.   I thought I heard Jaffe near the end of the game say 47 but I was mistaken.

Changes nothing though.

Gordon's team must show improvement as a team (regardless of the personnel he decides to put on the ice) or get him out of there and get someone who can build a club.

39 shots Webb 20.

Steve,

Lets see if Gordon can adjust or if this is all he has. We have seen rookie mistakes but will he be too stubborn to adapt is the next question. His mishandling of Fritz against NJ and other games makes me skeptical and that's basic.

He convinced Garth Snow he will create a system to the players benefit and concentrate on defense or that's what folks advertised he will do, lets see if he can do just that.

Given him comments I'm skeptical he will change anything and in that case it may well be time to see to make a change but right now this is nothing more than a fifty game exhibition schedule.

This team given what Streit and Weight has given them should have a much better record and be far more competitive. In some ways Gordon has fallen into Nolan's trap going all in expecting big goals from Park and now Hilbert.

As hard as they work that will not happen.

Jackman for all the character is not going to score or create goals, he wastes a roster spot too and is a career AHL player.

Lets see where Gordon goes next with this. Not easy to change systems without any practice time.

Seems the bubble really popped after that Coliseum Pens game and just took whatever they had going and put the club in a complete freefall in terms of team defense.

Park, Hilbert and jackman seem to be part of the solution.
Park has had success under defensive coaches and offensive coaches in his career.
He rarely has a bad game.
Hilbert, look my older posts on him.

Jackman? Are you kidding...the guy provides a little bit of everything.
It's the defensive zone coverage that kills us and it's not any one player
that's the problem. It's the strategy deployed by Gordon.

You cannot have guys playing a 5 man box and reacting to what the other team does.
Even a TRUE clueless coach would at the very least go with the basic fundamentals of
follow you guy into the zone, stay with him. Center help out down low, wingers on the point.
Nope, we go into defensive shell of 5 man zone coverage.
Confidence is down and we get eaten alive.

System failure.
Before player changes are made, coaching needs to change its approach.


Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Westfall18
Member Avatar
We are the Loyal Fan Base.
stevedepot,Dec 20 2008
10:33 AM
The system is a joke.
Don't fool yourselves. westfall, I respect you as a poster here and I respect your opinion but I disagree.
You can have the right people in with this system and it will be destined to fail.

Let's stop making excuses for this "system" the same way some made every excuse possible for Tambellini.

No kidding this season was going to be tough. Of course players would need time to adjust.
Of course you have to show resiliency when faced the adversity of injuries.

But when you show very little in 5 on 5 situations for this long a period and the
only breaks you get are when you're on the powerplay. There's something wrong.
When your coach is being slapped in the press by frustrated veterans there's something wrong.
When some of the media surrounding this team tries it's best to sugarcoact the problems, there's something wrong.

This is a critical year and I don't mind looking at the silver lining of getting that 1st round pick.
But if this bastid is going to be forced down my throat as the almighty next best coach in the league with this "system" that doesn't work on our side of the redline then please press the eject button.

Nick, I agree. This moron needs to go. I bet even Tambellini would be better off with a different system and have at leas 1 goal by now.

:dontknow:

oh no! how dare you! you can't say that to me..ohh wait this isn't Islander mania..lol j/k

I get you man, and I know I'm gonna get ripped for this comment, but the Providence Bruins won I believe 50 games last season with Scott Gordon at the helm. Thats 50 games. There is no way this guy is a bad coach. sigh, I dunno..I'm clueless right now :disgraced:
The Keeper of All Things Westfall
William H. McCue Sr. 1934-2015 Rest in Peace Poppa.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nyifancentral
4th line
stevedepot,Dec 20 2008
12:10 PM
nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
10:49 AM
Webb20,Dec 20 2008
10:25 AM
You're right they didnt have 50 shots.   I thought I heard Jaffe near the end of the game say 47 but I was mistaken.

Changes nothing though.

Gordon's team must show improvement as a team (regardless of the personnel he decides to put on the ice) or get him out of there and get someone who can build a club.

39 shots Webb 20.

Steve,

Lets see if Gordon can adjust or if this is all he has. We have seen rookie mistakes but will he be too stubborn to adapt is the next question. His mishandling of Fritz against NJ and other games makes me skeptical and that's basic.

He convinced Garth Snow he will create a system to the players benefit and concentrate on defense or that's what folks advertised he will do, lets see if he can do just that.

Given him comments I'm skeptical he will change anything and in that case it may well be time to see to make a change but right now this is nothing more than a fifty game exhibition schedule.

This team given what Streit and Weight has given them should have a much better record and be far more competitive. In some ways Gordon has fallen into Nolan's trap going all in expecting big goals from Park and now Hilbert.

As hard as they work that will not happen.

Jackman for all the character is not going to score or create goals, he wastes a roster spot too and is a career AHL player.

Lets see where Gordon goes next with this. Not easy to change systems without any practice time.

Seems the bubble really popped after that Coliseum Pens game and just took whatever they had going and put the club in a complete freefall in terms of team defense.

Park, Hilbert and jackman seem to be part of the solution.
Park has had success under defensive coaches and offensive coaches in his career.
He rarely has a bad game.
Hilbert, look my older posts on him.

Jackman? Are you kidding...the guy provides a little bit of everything.
It's the defensive zone coverage that kills us and it's not any one player
that's the problem. It's the strategy deployed by Gordon.

You cannot have guys playing a 5 man box and reacting to what the other team does.
Even a TRUE clueless coach would at the very least go with the basic fundamentals of
follow you guy into the zone, stay with him. Center help out down low, wingers on the point.
Nope, we go into defensive shell of 5 man zone coverage.
Confidence is down and we get eaten alive.

System failure.
Before player changes are made, coaching needs to change its approach.

* Park, Hilbert and jackman seem to be part of the solution.
Park has had success under defensive coaches and offensive coaches in his career.
He rarely has a bad game.

Richard Park has one even strength goal in thirty one games. He's not the answer to scoring at five on five and he is not the next Jason Blake in terms of scoring, it does not define his career. Last year he scored against Washington in December and did not score again for thirty games.

That defines Park's career. He should never see a shift above the third line and that's only if there are injuries and should be out for every pk....that's it.

How many shots has Hilbert taken (not deflected off someone or by his stick) that led to even strength goals since he put in Streit's shot in the opener?

* Jackman? Are you kidding...the guy provides a little bit of everything.
It's the defensive zone coverage that kills us and it's not any one player
that's the problem. It's the strategy deployed by Gordon.

A little bit of everything from Jackman was one goal last year and one goal this time.

He does not draw powerplays, is not some kind of defensive specialist and is a career AHL player who has bounced all over the league. He's not fast or very physical. You
put Jackman on the ice at best you get an even shift.

No coach is going to get scoring from those players on any kind of regular basis as flawed as the system can.

That's why Bergenheim, Okposo, Comeau, Bailey need a lot more chances and where the coaching approach change has to start.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nyifancentral
4th line
Westphal, the AHL you play three games Friday, Saturday and Sunday most weeks and sit out Mon-Thursday is not the same as the NHL.

Bridgeport has blown a ton of leads with this system but unlike past years are packed with extra players and like Gordon's Providence Bruins have the scorers and depth to keep the club successful.

It could easily be the system is not right for this level even forgetting the players not able to skate well enough to score at even strength while not being able to defend at the other.

Right now this club has seventy nine goals, thirty seven on special teams/open nets.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Webb20
Member Avatar
Godfather
Jackman is a perfect NHL 4th liner.

If we had legitimate first line stars, Jackman wouldn't even be brought up in conversation.

We have 50 games left. I think it's a perfect time to get another coach in here to put in place another approach so this team can be more prepared for next season.

Gordon should go. (another couple of loses in a row and it will be MUST go).

I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
sybo
Member Avatar
Resident Wiseass, Neighborhood Candyman, Master Drunkard
The "system" = EPIC FAIL


CASE CLOSED
Garth Snow circa 2006:
Quote:
 
but how can you not be excited about DiPietro…Robert Nilsson…Ryan O'Marra…Petteri Nokelainen…Jeremy Colliton…Kyle Okposo…Blake Comeau…Sean Bergenheim…Chris Campoli…and so many others.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
All Star
I'm willing to give Flash tonight to show he can adapt. If the lineup includes Fritz, I will be skeptical. Fritz is worthless to take a spot if he's going to play two shifts, and especially when he plays zero. I have patience, and the system is fun to watch when it works, but his personnel choices and line combinations are miserable. I wonder if Garth is talking to another coach... according to Botta, he thinks that Go-Go will be here next year.

Jackman is not an answer. He brings some energy to the ice, and so did Walter, but they don't bring goals.

Park and Hilbert are not part of the solution, or the problem. If we were competing more, Park and Hilbert wouldn't be a factor. Gordon came in saying he would be defensive... but we haven't seen it, except in the blocked shots category, and they said he would play the youth, but he doesn't seem to do that... Jackman, Hilbert, Sim, Park, and Walter are not the future.

Something has to give tonight.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nyifancentral
4th line
Webb20,Dec 20 2008
12:53 PM
Jackman is a perfect NHL 4th liner.

If we had legitimate first line stars, Jackman wouldn't even be brought up in conversation.

We have 50 games left. I think it's a perfect time to get another coach in here to put in place another approach so this team can be more prepared for next season.

Gordon should go. (another couple of loses in a row and it will be MUST go).

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54834

Jackman's career record says it all, he has no business being in the NHL regardless of the other players. Half the scorers in Bridgeport deserve that right wing spot right now along with anyone else.

Call up a scorer from Bridgeport who plays the right side and plug him in with Walter.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Westfall18
Member Avatar
We are the Loyal Fan Base.
nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
12:37 PM
Westphal, the AHL you play three games Friday, Saturday and Sunday most weeks and sit out Mon-Thursday is not the same as the NHL.

Bridgeport has blown a ton of leads with this system but unlike past years are packed with extra players and like Gordon's Providence Bruins have the scorers and depth to keep the club successful.

It could easily be the system is not right for this level even forgetting the players not able to skate well enough to score at even strength while not being able to defend at the other.

Right now this club has seventy nine goals, thirty seven on special teams/open nets.

WESTPHAL?? WESTPHAL? YOU CALL YOURSELF AN ISLANDERS FAN!! AHH!! IT'S WESTFALL !! WESTFALL! W-E-S-T-F-A-L-L YOU KNOW OUR FIRST CAPTAIN? #18 HIMSELF?? AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!! okay i'm kidding with you dude..
The Keeper of All Things Westfall
William H. McCue Sr. 1934-2015 Rest in Peace Poppa.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nyifancentral
4th line
Westfall18,Dec 20 2008
01:16 PM
nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
12:37 PM
Westphal, the AHL you play three games Friday, Saturday and Sunday most weeks and sit out Mon-Thursday is not the same as the NHL.

Bridgeport has blown a ton of leads with this system but unlike past years are packed with extra players and like Gordon's Providence Bruins have the scorers and depth to keep the club successful.

It could easily be the system is not right for this level even forgetting the players not able to skate well enough to score at even strength while not being able to defend at the other.

Right now this club has seventy nine goals, thirty seven on special teams/open nets.

WESTPHAL?? WESTPHAL? YOU CALL YOURSELF AN ISLANDERS FAN!! AHH!! IT'S WESTFALL !! WESTFALL! W-E-S-T-F-A-L-L YOU KNOW OUR FIRST CAPTAIN? #18 HIMSELF?? AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!! okay i'm kidding with you dude..

You think I would at least look at all the uniforms and how many times it's spelled in front of me. Never mind all the years I saw him play as an Islander. :o
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nyifancentral
4th line
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
01:14 PM
I'm willing to give Flash tonight to show he can adapt. If the lineup includes Fritz, I will be skeptical. Fritz is worthless to take a spot if he's going to play two shifts, and especially when he plays zero. I have patience, and the system is fun to watch when it works, but his personnel choices and line combinations are miserable. I wonder if Garth is talking to another coach... according to Botta, he thinks that Go-Go will be here next year.

Jackman is not an answer. He brings some energy to the ice, and so did Walter, but they don't bring goals.

Park and Hilbert are not part of the solution, or the problem. If we were competing more, Park and Hilbert wouldn't be a factor. Gordon came in saying he would be defensive... but we haven't seen it, except in the blocked shots category, and they said he would play the youth, but he doesn't seem to do that... Jackman, Hilbert, Sim, Park, and Walter are not the future.

Something has to give tonight.

Problem with Park and Hilbert are since Okposo and Nielsen got hurt the coach has used them more and more as if they are the solution.

Good team guys (same as Jackman) who will do anything to win but scoring big goals or even strength on any kind of regular basis is beyond what they can do.

Career trends do not lie, someone else needs to play those roles/minutes.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
All Star
I don't question their heart. They give it all on the ice, but you're right. Hilbert, and Park will not spark a comeback.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevedepot
Member Avatar
WISENHEIMER
Westfall18,Dec 20 2008
12:11 PM
stevedepot,Dec 20 2008
10:33 AM
The system is a joke.
Don't fool yourselves. westfall, I respect you as a poster here and I respect your opinion but I disagree.
You can have the right people in with this system and it will be destined to fail.

Let's stop making excuses for this "system" the same way some made every excuse possible for Tambellini.

No kidding this season was going to be tough. Of course players would need time to adjust.
Of course you have to show resiliency when faced the adversity of injuries.

But when you show very little in 5 on 5 situations for this long a period and the
only breaks you get are when you're on the powerplay. There's something wrong.
When your coach is being slapped in the press by frustrated veterans there's something wrong.
When some of the media surrounding this team tries it's best to sugarcoact the problems, there's something wrong.

This is a critical year and I don't mind looking at the silver lining of getting that 1st round pick.
But if this bastid is going to be forced down my throat as the almighty next best coach in the league with this "system" that doesn't work on our side of the redline then please press the eject button.

Nick, I agree. This moron needs to go. I bet even Tambellini would be better off with a different system and have at leas 1 goal by now.

:dontknow:

oh no! how dare you! you can't say that to me..ohh wait this isn't Islander mania..lol j/k

I get you man, and I know I'm gonna get ripped for this comment, but the Providence Bruins won I believe 50 games last season with Scott Gordon at the helm. Thats 50 games. There is no way this guy is a bad coach. sigh, I dunno..I'm clueless right now :disgraced:

Westfall, we are all clueless right now. And this is beyond knowing that we'll get a great draft pick.

earlier in the year before teams could scout Gordon's system enough, we had some decent
results and even lamented how much better we could have been if we didn't blow leads.
now the word and the video is out.

constant pressure in the offensive zone, forcing you to make a perfect pass
and zone-pressure to the outside coverage on defense.

Once teams realize they can cycle and force out defensmen out of position,
we're doomed.

Gordon had a great AHL record. Providence is proof of that.
Steve Stirling also had some success in Providence, coaching their college team.
He too was this guy with "great X's and O's" approach. His one wining season here with us,
we had an ok team with pretty good defensemen. But things went south fast for him.
We haven't heard any NHL rumors about him since.

For me, it's just not a convincing argument that this system can ever work in the NHL.
They don't have the means to scout the way they do at the AHL level.

Oh well...Tavares/hedman...here we come!!!



:banana: :dontknow: :bag:
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
puckhead
Member Avatar
All Star
Fire Gordon? And then what?

The coaching carousel must end.............we haven't had one coach that's lasted more than 2 years since Arbour. Since ARBOUR! Talk about instability.

How about fire the owner and general manager?


What a franchise.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevedepot
Member Avatar
WISENHEIMER
puckhead,Dec 20 2008
01:44 PM
Fire Gordon? And then what?

The coaching carousel must end.............we haven't had one coach that's lasted more than 2 years since Arbour. Since ARBOUR! Talk about instability.

How about fire the owner and general manager?


What a franchise.

Now you're talking.

I want the trifecta.

Wang, Snow and Gordon.

OUT!!!!

(this way...no more Chris Dey as he's part of the package)

We need an owner who grants his GM (one with NHL experience and respect) total autonomy.
We need an NHL caliber coach.

Watch...all this whining and debates today and they'll go out and spank the Preds tonight.

You never know, we could win a game.


:dontknow:
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Islanders News · Next Topic »
Add Reply