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It's not the "system"
Topic Started: Dec 19 2008, 10:51 PM (1,568 Views)
Snowday
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4th line
It's all a cop out with the whole "overspeed", "youth movement". It's to give the fans hope where no hope is or no hope can be found. Gordon is completely clueless, maybe even more so than Garth and Wang. It's just one big mess again.

We have 2 or 3 decent prospects in Okposo, Nielsen and Bailey that may never amount to anything playing with nobodies under a coach who has no clue what he is doing in an organization/team ran by two clowns.

With Nolan he played our best prospects who could contribute (Okposo, Comeau, Nielsen) and told the rest to take a hike. Many fans were like we want to see Tambellini and others and a full youth movement. Now we know why Nolan wasn't about filling a roster with shitty prospects. He liked his hard working vets mixed in with some talented kids and he usually got results on a nightly basis. I've seen more from Okposo and Comeau in their handful of games last year than both combined for what they've done this year.

/vent
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:
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4CUPZ
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HEAD OF SECURITY
Snowman39,Dec 20 2008
12:08 AM
Again, what did any of you expect? We all knew how bad this team was going to be before the season even started and now they're being exactly that: terrible.

TERRIBLE WOULD BE A f#@kING IMPROVEMENT OVER THIS GARBAGE
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Webb20
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Godfather
4CUPZ,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Snowman39,Dec 20 2008
12:08 AM
Again, what did any of you expect?  We all knew how bad this team was going to be before the season even started and now they're being exactly that: terrible.

TERRIBLE WOULD BE A f#@kING IMPROVEMENT OVER THIS GARBAGE

Post of the day. :thumbsup:
I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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viking
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are we going to call for Garth head? :angrier:
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Snowy
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The Dark Knight
EmptyNet,Dec 19 2008
11:17 PM
Snowman39,Dec 20 2008
12:08 AM
Again, what did any of you expect?  We all knew how bad this team was going to be before the season even started and now they're being exactly that: terrible.

For me, after 2 + months I'd of liked to see some improvement from the rookies. Just something (aside from a lottery position) to hang my hope hat on.

Josh Bailey- Missed 14 games due to injury
Kyle Okposo- Missed 13 games due to injury
Frans Nielsen- Missed 13 games due to injury
Blake Comeau- Missed 26 games due to ????

How would you like improvement from the young guys when they've all missed double digit games and we're only 32 games in??? Believe me, it bothers me that Josh Bailey doesn't have a goal yet. It bothers me that KO hasn't been more of a factor offensively. But these guys are both 19 years old and in their first NHL season, and being honest they don't have the luxury of playing with great players who can create opportunities for them. I mean Jesus, their PP linemate is Andy Hilbert.
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WeSuckAgain
AHL Callup
Ok heres my idea. Im a huge Islander fan however lets face it WE SUCK. we are thee WORST, MOST PATHEITC TEAM IN THE WHOLE NHL. They are an embarissment and HUGE discrace. Why am I still a fan? I dont really know I guess im one of the not so smart people who actually think they can win a game. In fact they are so bad again this season that I watch the games too see how many times they can get scored on. I even hope for double digits and it becomes funny. I think Wang or w.e his name is wang wong dont matter should sell the team and give it to someone who will actually get decent players and players who are not past their prime. They should idolize the Rangers! :blah:
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4CUPZ
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HEAD OF SECURITY
5...4...3...2...1.....
IGNITION
:fear: :fear: :fear: :fear: :fear:
:angrier: :angrier: :angrier: :angrier:
:nono: :nono: :nono:

WELCOME ABOARD
BUT 1ST RULE
NEVER NEVER NEVER
POST A POSITIVE WITH THE WORD RANGERS ATTACHED TO SAME SENTENCE
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LEDZEP
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WeSuckAgain,Dec 20 2008
04:48 PM
They should idolize the Rangers! :blah:

:kill:
:ragssuck:
:puke:
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What puckhead says is Islander law
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must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Mulefan
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Webb20,Dec 20 2008
09:38 AM
nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
12:25 AM

A lot of this is the system, there is no doubt it. Rick Bowness, Goring and Bill Stewart got a better collective effort then we saw tonight.

So did coach Milbury. 

Minnesota came into this game struggling on offense on a six game losing streak and without MacDonald it's a 9-1 game.

It's getting a lot worse and it's not rebuilding or a youth movement. The Islanders looked like a group of strangers that got beat to the puck and beat up in the trenches, Guerin, Weight and Bergenheim were eaten alive at even strength.

And this was not so Comeau-Bailey-Okposo could skate as a line, it was so Richard Park could see more prime time and Tim Jackman and Andy Hilbert could be key players. 

That is a waste of time along with Fritz being glued to the bench while Comeau is in the stands.

Gordon moved Okposo to the left and admitted it was a mistake when he struggled, Comeau came up and look just like last year against Atlanta,  scored against Philadeplhia then he was shifted to right wing and Gordon criticized his backchecking and now he is on the bench so Jon Sim (a player put on waivers) can go in the spot and right back on the powerplay?

I'm not concered with losing at this point but how they are losing, nothing is being learned or built upon from this.

This is a far better roster than what it's showing in games, rookie coach or not this is the kind of team play that gets any coach fired at any stage. That looked like a pickup team tonight and it was not because of going with youth.

If I didnt know any better you'd think I wrote this post. Why the turnaround from yesterday fancental?

I was crucified by some about my criticism of Gordon when I said he wont be our coach next season and may not finish this season. I still stand by that as I dont think this guy and his system is the answer to develop the future NY Islanders.

I dont think we were ever farther away from being an contender since 1972. He's got us running in circles, expending unecessary energy, and looking worse than an AHL team.

There is a simple game plan out there to play us and our coach hasnt come up with anything new to counter. He's an AHL coach and he looks like one and also looks like a dear in headlights.

If Garth fired him tomorrow I wouldnt be upset, in fact I applaud it.

Was Fritz in the lineup? I dont remember seeing him on the ice, and if that was true, then why was Comeau not even in the lineup?

Can Brendan Witt be any slower? Why was Bailey and Okposo (who by the way was our best player next to Park) not playing together? Why the hell is Sim still in the lineup? Why were we out shot 50-16.

50-16 against a struggling team. :disgraced:

And why should Snow be able to stay and choose the next coach when he was the one who chose Gordon???

Gordon might be in over his head, but so is Snow. Remember the old Don Maloney song? Well I can see a Garth Snow song in the near future.
Pete
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Snowday
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:

Nolan bought those players in or Garth? And it's not like either had a big list to choose from. Nolan got more out of Kozlov, Vasicek ect..than they did elsewhere in years prior.

I'm not saying Nolan is the best coach and we couldn't do better, but Gordon so far looks like a big downgrade.
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992
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Snowday,Dec 20 2008
04:48 PM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:

Nolan bought those players in or Garth? And it's not like either had a big list to choose from. Nolan got more out of Kozlov, Vasicek ect..than they did elsewhere in years prior.

I'm not saying Nolan is the best coach and we couldn't do better, but Gordon so far looks like a big downgrade.

Nolan didn't bring anyone in, just like Gordon didn't. Garth tried to accommodate Nolan, and we got the 5th round pick. Gordon may or may not be a downgrade, but let's not pretend that we have to move backwards to seasons that also sucked, or were close to sucking.



We should idolize the rangers? You call yourself an Islander fan? Go slob Dolan's hockey stick.
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Snowy
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WeSuckAgain,Dec 20 2008
03:48 PM
Ok heres my idea. Im a huge Islander fan however lets face it WE SUCK. we are thee WORST, MOST PATHEITC TEAM IN THE WHOLE NHL. They are an embarissment and HUGE discrace. Why am I still a fan? I dont really know I guess im one of the not so smart people who actually think they can win a game. In fact they are so bad again this season that I watch the games too see how many times they can get scored on. I even hope for double digits and it becomes funny. I think Wang or w.e his name is wang wong dont matter should sell the team and give it to someone who will actually get decent players and players who are not past their prime. They should idolize the Rangers! :blah:

Idolize the Rangers? Are you on drugs??? What about the Rangers should they idolize??? They have $21 million tied up in two 2nd line centers and a goalie. They have a few good young players, but none of them close to being great. They are a team that is great in shootouts both offensively and in goal. They'd take every single game into a shootout if they could, and that's exactly how they play. Unfortunately for them, no shootout in the playoffs. They are capped out. Mats Sundin wanted to come to NY and they couldn't free up any room to do so. Their defense is average at best, and that's being polite. They are exactly the way that you DON'T want to build a franchise. They are a 4 or 5 seed every year that at best will make the 3rd round and never win a championship. If that's what you want then fine, but I'm happy as hell you're not the GM.
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Islander4cups
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nyifancentral,Dec 20 2008
10:13 AM
Isles75,Dec 20 2008
09:37 AM
That's it, it's the system! People, please the NHL of today is all about speed and we lack that big time. We also lack a lot of real talent. The Capitals, Penguins, hell even some of the Rangers squad would make the overspeed system a huge success for 100 minutes, let alone 60 minutes.

Hopefully, while we are suffering through this season some of the bright spots playing with us now and down in the system continue to progess and it will get better. patience.

If that's the case a lot of other NHL clubs would play it. Pittsburgh, Rangers and a lot of clubs you wrote about play defense/trap first.

Pens last year went heavy into trap mode down the stretch a year ago. Rangers live and die under Renney's trap and play for the shots disparity advantage.

The Penguins do not, and did not last year, play a trap or any version of it.
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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Islander4cups
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Snowday,Dec 20 2008
04:48 PM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:

Nolan bought those players in or Garth? And it's not like either had a big list to choose from. Nolan got more out of Kozlov, Vasicek ect..than they did elsewhere in years prior.

I'm not saying Nolan is the best coach and we couldn't do better, but Gordon so far looks like a big downgrade.

How many head coaches has Lou Lamorello gone through in NJ in his tenure?

How many have the Avs gone through in Colorado?

Should Detroit have lost their gm because they hired Lewis to replace Bowman?

Was MM a "visionary" because he originally saw cup potential in Lavvy?
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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Snowday
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Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
06:23 PM
Snowday,Dec 20 2008
04:48 PM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:

Nolan bought those players in or Garth? And it's not like either had a big list to choose from. Nolan got more out of Kozlov, Vasicek ect..than they did elsewhere in years prior.

I'm not saying Nolan is the best coach and we couldn't do better, but Gordon so far looks like a big downgrade.

Nolan didn't bring anyone in, just like Gordon didn't. Garth tried to accommodate Nolan, and we got the 5th round pick. Gordon may or may not be a downgrade, but let's not pretend that we have to move backwards to seasons that also sucked, or were close to sucking.



We should idolize the rangers? You call yourself an Islander fan? Go slob Dolan's hockey stick.

You said NOLANS vets didn't pan out, making it sound you thought he bought them in. Garth bought them in, and Nolan squeezed as much as possible out of them, plus he got better results out of the youngsters with the limited tim he had with them. It's still too early to completely evaluate Gordon, but like I said, so far Gordon is a far cry from what Nolan did with the same amount of talent/injuries ect..

I don;t know what you're talking about with the Rangers comment.
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Snowday
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Islander4cups,Dec 20 2008
07:09 PM
Snowday,Dec 20 2008
04:48 PM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:

Nolan bought those players in or Garth? And it's not like either had a big list to choose from. Nolan got more out of Kozlov, Vasicek ect..than they did elsewhere in years prior.

I'm not saying Nolan is the best coach and we couldn't do better, but Gordon so far looks like a big downgrade.

How many head coaches has Lou Lamorello gone through in NJ in his tenure?

How many have the Avs gone through in Colorado?

Should Detroit have lost their gm because they hired Lewis to replace Bowman?

Was MM a "visionary" because he originally saw cup potential in Lavvy?


You're comparing Colorado, NJ and Detroit (all teams that have won numerous Cups in the last decade+) to the Islanders. I understand your point, but let's be real here.
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LEDZEP
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It's not the "system"
=================
What system :selfhit:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
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Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Overspeed
1st line
Overspeed = Overlose = the system by which the team loses over and over and over again
Just like the Newsday back cover said today: SYSTEM FAILURE
Our youth played better last year under Nolan, especially KO and Comeau. At least the team didnt give up on Nolan like this team has seemed to quit on Gordon. This is why we need a real nhl GM and real NHL Coach before the Isles can actually get any sort of process underway. Not only dont the players buy this supposed system, Gordon has refused to adjust his strategy based on the situation of each game. If you dont believe me just look at the quotes coming out of the players themselves. With Wang, Snow and Gordon this team will soon be called the Las Vegas Dicelanders and call the Thomas & Mack Center their home.
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Islander4cups
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In Garth I Trust
Snowday,Dec 20 2008
09:09 PM
Islander4cups,Dec 20 2008
07:09 PM
Snowday,Dec 20 2008
04:48 PM
Craving_the_Cup_Since_1992,Dec 20 2008
02:16 PM
Yeah, Nolan's hardworking vets panned out wonderfully. Fourteen straight scoring 2 goals or less. What happened when the vets all went down with injury? Vasicek, and Fedotanko worked well? They'd score, and disappear for 20 games. With all this revisionist Nolan history, who drank the koolaid?

If Wang goes, the Islanders go. I'd take Wang over losing my favorite team. I've said this before to people, the Islander move, and I will stop watching the NHL. And because I am such a special person, of course this can never happen. :banana:

Nolan bought those players in or Garth? And it's not like either had a big list to choose from. Nolan got more out of Kozlov, Vasicek ect..than they did elsewhere in years prior.

I'm not saying Nolan is the best coach and we couldn't do better, but Gordon so far looks like a big downgrade.

How many head coaches has Lou Lamorello gone through in NJ in his tenure?

How many have the Avs gone through in Colorado?

Should Detroit have lost their gm because they hired Lewis to replace Bowman?

Was MM a "visionary" because he originally saw cup potential in Lavvy?


You're comparing Colorado, NJ and Detroit (all teams that have won numerous Cups in the last decade+) to the Islanders. I understand your point, but let's be real here.

No. You apparently don't. My point was those GM's did not enjoy immediate success...

Look at those teams when those GM's came in. Did they have immediate success?

These were Lou's first coaching hires in NJ
Schonfield 88-89
John Cuniff 89-91
Tom McVie91-92
Herb Brooks 92-93
and then
Jacques Lemaire 93-98

Those first 4 coaches really lit it up for the Devils didn't they.

Ken Holland has been gm of Detroit since 97. He walked into a team loaded with talent (and yes, he had a hand in building it since he was their director of Am scouting for 7 years prior to becoming GM). But how did his hires fair?

2003-05- Dave Lewis
05-now Mike Babcock

NOt every first hire is successful. As I recall, it took Torrey a third hire to get it right.

Nordique/Av's GM Pierre Lacrouix 94-06
1- Benefitted from a Hershel Walker deal in the Eric Lindros deal. Look at who Philly gave him.

2- His hires as GM
Mark Crawford
Bob Hartley
tony Granato
Joel Quenville
(and the new GM has Granato coaching again)
While Crawford and Hartley earned cups, they came into teams LOADED with talent and it didn't hurt Crawford that Montreal dumped Roy in their lap. Granato and Quenville didn't come close and Crawford and Hartley have had ZERO success in their later hires.
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