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Orange/Blue Prospects recap; 2nd hand
Topic Started: Jul 11 2010, 09:24 PM (1,132 Views)
stevedepot
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smittyrules31,Jul 12 2010
08:54 PM
Streit is not a seasoned vet?  Roloson?  I understand your point, but I think you may be overlooking a few guys.  And KO has been in the league for several years now, I would hope he no longer has a rookie mentality.  It is true that we are a young team, but that is the double-edged sword that going with a youth movement brings.

For what it is worth, I'm actually pretty impressed with the maturity and presence that most of our young guys have shown (Bruno and Tamby excluded...obviously), though I don't mean to say that those participating in the Prospect Camp have it, just those who have played at the club level.

Okposo has accomplished NOTHING yet.

I'm sorry, I love the guy. Look forward to him being here a LONG LONG time.
But he is a coward when it comes to standing up for your teamates.
Roloson won't teach that. Streit sure as hell won't teach that. Doug Weight will not teach that.
Nor will the moustache.

Perhaps Konopka can inspire guys to have a one for all and all for one attitude. TOO TOO TOO many times last year I saw our guys, our goalies and most of all, Tavares, take cheap shots and no one had the balls to drop the gloves and take one for the team. Certainly NOT Okposo.

That is not captain material and this is not a cyanide post. Assembling talent is one thing. DEVELOPING It is another. I am shocked and astounded at how many of our fans are infatuated with the notion of giving Okposo the C.

Sure, why not. Let him learn on the job just like our GM Snow.
We deserve better. This team needs real leadership.
They need a guy with a Stanley Cup ring. (Madden?) They need to think like a first class team
and stop pretending to be one.


:sick:
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smittyrules31
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Repeat a lie frequently enough....
Easy Steve! Relax and go back and read my post. I'm not saying KO needs to be Jerome Iginla (that would be nice) but he has shown a maturity that I like. Yes, for a guy who can play like a bull on skates, he doesn't seem interested/willing to drop the mitts. So be it. I have no idea if he should be captain. I think a lot of people feel that way because Howie and Jaffe put it out there a lot.

We all know that this team lacked a certain toughness last year. But that is only one aspect of the game. I understood IG to be talking about an overall vet presence, not simply dropping the gloves to stand up for a teammate. From what I've heard, Roloson, Streit and KO (as well as Biron) were the guys in the lockerroom that did that. Weight also apparently had a number of slumber parties with Tavares and Moulson....whoa, I'll just stop there...but Tavares seems to feel Weight's presence has helped him.

You're right, that was no cyanide post. But I do think there is something good going on...not sure how we would improve almost 20 points if there wasn't. Something must be going right...or maybe just less wrong???
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Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor.

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stevedepot
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smitty, it's just that too too TOO many of our fans on here and everywhere on the web are infatuated with Okposo after ONLY 2 full seasons + the 2 and a half weeks of his first season when he was pulled out of College.
His development is not where it should be IMO. I challenge any islanders fan to think of this.

How much better would Okposo be had he had Bill Guerin and Doug Weight guiding him???
I'll just bet anyone he would have dropped the gloves that time Tavares got a cheap shot.
But Guerin was destined to be jettisoned out of here after he disagreed with our coach.

We desperately need another guy in that club house.

Our prospect pool is deep but our player development or lack there of has us destined for more drought unless things change.
:yes:
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smittyrules31,Jul 12 2010
07:54 PM
Streit is not a seasoned vet? Roloson? I understand your point, but I think you may be overlooking a few guys. And KO has been in the league for several years now, I would hope he no longer has a rookie mentality. It is true that we are a young team, but that is the double-edged sword that going with a youth movement brings.

For what it is worth, I'm actually pretty impressed with the maturity and presence that most of our young guys have shown (Bruno and Tamby excluded...obviously), though I don't mean to say that those participating in the Prospect Camp have it, just those who have played at the club level.

There are different levels of experience that players bring. Although Doug Weight is a good leader...and knows what it takes to win...unfortunately he's not on the ice or bench...in game situations long enough to really make a difference.

Streit doesn't know what it takes to win...because he's never won at the NHL level...nor has he been in the NHL long enough. Roloson is a veteran...but IMO we need veteran presence other than goal tending.

I think KO has GREAT leadership qualities and can be a real good captain in the future...but he's not ready yet. There is absolutely no one that can hand over the mantle. There's enough pressure being a leader...imagine a kid that's only been around three years on team that is rebuilding from the ground up.

IMO...last season was a great indication of the lack of leadership. You have a kid like Tavares...who is the face of the future...and Doug Weight hardly played enough games to make a difference. Sorry...but living at Doug Weight's house is not enough. Now he's signed for another year...and the issue has not been addressed.

Part of rebuilding is making sure you have the right pieces in place to help the kids develop and grow...and now instead of building on that...they also got rid of a guy like Trottier whose responsibility was player development.

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OlTimeHockey
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I say we get Wang to fund a nine story garage in Doug Weight's back yard and have the entire team live there so we no longer will have to worry about veteran leadership on the ice. We'll have it during barbecues, Survivor episodes, even during Sunday breakfast.

We'll be able to dress another rookie this way.

And Weight's back yard would look awesome for it.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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smittyrules31
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stevedepot,Jul 13 2010
01:26 AM
smitty, it's just that too too TOO many of our fans on here and everywhere on the web are infatuated with Okposo after ONLY 2 full seasons + the 2 and a half weeks of his first season when he was pulled out of College.
His development is not where it should be IMO. I challenge any islanders fan to think of this.

How much better would Okposo be had he had Bill Guerin and Doug Weight guiding him???
I'll just bet anyone he would have dropped the gloves that time Tavares got a cheap shot.
But Guerin was destined to be jettisoned out of here after he disagreed with our coach.

We desperately need another guy in that club house.

Our prospect pool is deep but our player development or lack there of has us destined for more drought unless things change.
:yes:

Steve: I am very high on Okposo but his game still seems a bit raw to me (hence, the long drought last season). I agree that he would benefit from having some good vets around him but, as you say, he is still relatively young and I think part of what we saw with Kyle is the developmental process working its way through. But, in addition to surrounding players with talent that helps them grow (this doesn't need to be vets, necessarily) you have two other variable to take into account: coaching and the player himself. We all know of your undying love and admiration for Gordon. I'm satisfied with Gordon as the coach. I'm not overwhelmed or underwhelmed. His main selling point is that he is supposed to work great with developing talent so I'll trust that it is happening. As for Kyle, while he doesn't drop the gloves, the guy clearly has a drive and determination that is pretty intense, even for an NHLer. I liked what I saw when he was on a line with MM and JT, thought they pulled the best from each other. Finding that right chemistry and getting a good mix of personalities in a locker-room may be the toughest part of being a GM. I don't think anyone doubts that a strong veteran presence can be helpful, but we've seen that many of the elite UFAs won't come here (though skill does not necessarily translate into character). This will be a very interesting season. There's a real opportunity for some of our young guys to step up and assert themselves above and beyond what happens on the ice. Ultimately, our long term success rides with them and, at some point, they're going to have to be the ones to set the tone for the team.
Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge: fitter to bruise than polish.

Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor.

In the beginning, the Universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.
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stevedepot,Jul 12 2010
08:07 PM
smittyrules31,Jul 12 2010
08:54 PM
Streit is not a seasoned vet?  Roloson?  I understand your point, but I think you may be overlooking a few guys.  And KO has been in the league for several years now, I would hope he no longer has a rookie mentality.  It is true that we are a young team, but that is the double-edged sword that going with a youth movement brings.

For what it is worth, I'm actually pretty impressed with the maturity and presence that most of our young guys have shown (Bruno and Tamby excluded...obviously), though I don't mean to say that those participating in the Prospect Camp have it, just those who have played at the club level.

Okposo has accomplished NOTHING yet.

I'm sorry, I love the guy. Look forward to him being here a LONG LONG time.
But he is a coward when it comes to standing up for your teamates.
Roloson won't teach that. Streit sure as hell won't teach that. Doug Weight will not teach that.
Nor will the moustache.

Perhaps Konopka can inspire guys to have a one for all and all for one attitude. TOO TOO TOO many times last year I saw our guys, our goalies and most of all, Tavares, take cheap shots and no one had the balls to drop the gloves and take one for the team. Certainly NOT Okposo.

That is not captain material and this is not a cyanide post. Assembling talent is one thing. DEVELOPING It is another. I am shocked and astounded at how many of our fans are infatuated with the notion of giving Okposo the C.

Sure, why not. Let him learn on the job just like our GM Snow.
We deserve better. This team needs real leadership.
They need a guy with a Stanley Cup ring. (Madden?) They need to think like a first class team
and stop pretending to be one.


:sick:

Steve...

While I agree with you that Kyle should NOT be the captain, I have a slightly different reason why. KO is not even 23 and hasn't had a steady vet influence to "train" him as captain. Weight has played 1.2 seasons for us...not enough time to train the kids.

As for KO's willingness to drop the gloves, this is an issue for a skilled player coming up through USA hockey and not Canadian Jrs. You can learn to fight in jrs, not in the USA hockey program or US youth hockey. Fighting is not KO's role. There have been plenty of good captain's that did not fight or did not "drop the gloves to stand up for a teammate".

I dont' recall Gretz doing it. Crosby only drops gloves when people are being held or aren't looking. Toews isn't a fighter. Even Dennis Potvin was not a fighter. It wasn't his role. He got into fights rarely. That was Nystrom, Howatt, Gillies job.

That is the main issue. If you have a captain in that mold, you will need guys to fill the "drop the gloves" role. We don't have that, but that doesn't mean KO can't be a good captain down the road. Especially if a Matt Martin can become a good player who can fight and we have others like that.

I agree that I don't see why so many are in a rush to give Kyle the C. Makes no sense, but I can see it happening in 5 seasons when he's GROWN into the role.
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smittyrules31,Jul 13 2010
06:44 AM

Steve:  I am very high on Okposo but his game still seems a bit raw to me (hence, the long drought last season).  I agree that he would benefit from having some good vets around him but, as you say, he is still relatively young and I think part of what we saw with Kyle is the developmental process working its way through.  But, in addition to surrounding players with talent that helps them grow (this doesn't need to be vets, necessarily) you have two other variable to take into account: coaching and the player himself.  We all know of your undying love and admiration for Gordon.  I'm satisfied with Gordon as the coach.  I'm not overwhelmed or underwhelmed.  His main selling point is that he is supposed to work great with developing talent so I'll trust that it is happening. 

I'm not. I think a big part of KO's and Tavares' drought last season was the musical chairs Gordon' played with the lines starting in November. Sorry, but ehn you start playing CRAP players like Franz, Park and Bergie on lines 1 & 2, you don't turn crap players into 1st line players. You turn your first line players like Tavares and Okposo into players who are essentially playing a man down.

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As for Kyle, while he doesn't drop the gloves, the guy clearly has a drive and determination that is pretty intense, even for an NHLer. I liked what I saw when he was on a line with MM and JT, thought they pulled the best from each other. Finding that right chemistry and getting a good mix of personalities in a locker-room may be the toughest part of being a GM. I don't think anyone doubts that a strong veteran presence can be helpful, but we've seen that many of the elite UFAs won't come here (though skill does not necessarily translate into character). This will be a very interesting season. There's a real opportunity for some of our young guys to step up and assert themselves above and beyond what happens on the ice. Ultimately, our long term success rides with them and, at some point, they're going to have to be the ones to set the tone for the team.


Hopefully, Gordon leaves the top 2 lines together this season. Whether it be Moulson-JT-Ko as line one and Nino-Bailey-someone else as line two or a combination... let them gell. If the other lines aren't pulling their weight, don't break up the lines that are. Put the responsibility on the other lines to pull their weight.
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OlTimeHockey,Jul 13 2010
01:52 AM
I say we get Wang to fund a nine story garage in Doug Weight's back yard and have the entire team live there so we no longer will have to worry about veteran leadership on the ice. We'll have it during barbecues, Survivor episodes, even during Sunday breakfast.

We'll be able to dress another rookie this way.

And Weight's back yard would look awesome for it.


If Wang tries to build it, I'm sure Murray will change the zoning to make all parking garages with a limit of 5 floors.
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I4C, I disagree.

It's not KO's "job" to fight. However, whether he or anyone came up through College or Canadian Jr's....whether they played in a league where fighting was more prevalent or not doesn't matter.

When a player rises to the top and is seen as a "leader" by his peers. He needs to accept every aspect of "leadership", that includes sending a message. Even if he's only 23.

Keith Tkachuk was a product of Boston University and yet came into the NHL and learned at a young age to defend himself and make ice for himself and his teammates.

Gretzky always had someone on the ice that had that willingness to drop the gloves.
We do not. We have to over market inexperienced scrubs with nicknames to our gullible fanbase.

I'm telling you, in a perfect world...if Guerin had been on this team longer than he was...
Okposo would have dropped the gloves when Tavares was manhandled this year. he would have been further along in his development/maturity.

But after all that....woulda shoulda coulda. This is what we have. We have to deal with it and hope things change.
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stevedepot,Jul 13 2010
09:48 AM
I4C, I disagree.

It's not KO's "job" to fight. However, whether he or anyone came up through College or Canadian Jr's....whether they played in a league where fighting was more prevalent or not doesn't matter.

When a player rises to the top and is seen as a "leader" by his peers. He needs to accept every aspect of "leadership", that includes sending a message. Even if he's only 23.

Keith Tkachuk was a product of Boston University and yet came into the NHL and learned at a young age to defend himself and make ice for himself and his teammates.

Gretzky always had someone on the ice that had that willingness to drop the gloves.
We do not. We have to over market inexperienced scrubs with nicknames to our gullible fanbase.

I'm telling you, in a perfect world...if Guerin had been on this team longer than he was...
Okposo would have dropped the gloves when Tavares was manhandled this year. he would have been further along in his development/maturity.

But after all that....woulda shoulda coulda. This is what we have. We have to deal with it and hope things change.

I understand your point, but Keith T was a rare young player who was able to fill that role at such a young age. If I'm not mistaken, he was captain in Winnapeg prior to age 26. And Keith T. developed in a different area of the country (New England) than Kyle O. (Minnesota). I don't know where Keith T played prior to college, but I'm willing to believe he fought more than KO did.

At any rate, if I'm not mistaken your beef is that KO didn't go after Ed Jovo after the elbow to JT in Pheonix. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

As I recall, it seemed to me the players didn't even realize JT was down on the play and scored. Now, if they did realize it, I would have prefered someone go after Jovo, but wasn't Streit on the ice as well? Was Witt? I honestly don't think they knew what happened to JT until it was all over.

Yes, this team lacks a physical presence. We all know that. We've been screaming about it for two seasons. Honestly, I thought it was a mistake to send Witt to Bridgeport and keep Gervais playing. I don't care what anyone says. Gervais is NOT better than Witt, even at Witt's stage of his career. Plus, Witt would go after guys in that situation. Witt won't win alot of fights anymore, but he'll drop the gloves in that situation.

But you are wrong about captains "sending messages". There have been plenty of great captains who haven't becuase they have someone to fill that role. Now, if you are saying that KO needs to because we don't have someone to fill it, well, now you are asking him to go outside his skillset. Putting that much responsibility on a kid so young isn't always going to have good results... (McCabe, Kenny J, Bertuzzi)
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I4C, wasn't referring to the game in Phoenix.
There were others. twice in Pittsburgh. one where Mat Cooke took liberties and
another (not on tavares) where Okposo did nothing but grab a jersey and talk.

We lost those games by the way.

I remember Bill Jaffe talking about Guerin and what he meant to Crosby's development and to the entire team. No one ever said boo to Crosby in the Pens locker until Guerin showed up.
He helped make him a better leader.

Okposo is somewhat of a leader (if you talk to his teammates) but not ready yet IMO
to even wear an A. Too much more growth is needed. Weight alone cannot provide the leadership needed to make Okposo a guy other teams fear.


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aries44475
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Just want to jump in here and agree with Steve. That second year Guerin was here with Weight and Comrie, I remember all 3 of those guys sticking up for teammates at times by dropping the gloves. I have to assume it wasn't cause Comrie thought he could fight but it was a pack mentality that someone, whether it Guerin or Witt or a combo brought to the team.

I saw a few of our "young" guys stand around after a guy like Tavares got popped. it doesn't matter if you saw it or not but you JT or anyone laying face down you goto whoever is closet and say something, get in thier face, drop gloves whatever. too many times I saw people looking around at each other like, I didn't see anything...what happen to that guy.
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smittyrules31
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aries44475,Jul 13 2010
04:56 PM
Just want to jump in here and agree with Steve. That second year Guerin was here with Weight and Comrie, I remember all 3 of those guys sticking up for teammates at times by dropping the gloves. I have to assume it wasn't cause Comrie thought he could fight but it was a pack mentality that someone, whether it Guerin or Witt or a combo brought to the team.

I saw a few of our "young" guys stand around after a guy like Tavares got popped. it doesn't matter if you saw it or not but you JT or anyone laying face down you goto whoever is closet and say something, get in thier face, drop gloves whatever. too many times I saw people looking around at each other like, I didn't see anything...what happen to that guy.

You've just made an excellent argument for having Matt Martin start the year up here.
Authority without wisdom is like a heavy axe without an edge: fitter to bruise than polish.

Anger makes dull men witty, but it keeps them poor.

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smittyrules31,Jul 13 2010
01:02 PM
aries44475,Jul 13 2010
04:56 PM
Just want to jump in here and agree with Steve. That second year Guerin was here with Weight and Comrie, I remember all 3 of those guys sticking up for teammates at times by dropping the gloves. I have to assume it wasn't cause Comrie thought he could fight but it was a pack mentality that someone, whether it Guerin or Witt or a combo brought to the team.

I saw a few of our "young" guys stand around after a guy like Tavares got popped. it doesn't matter if you saw it or not but you JT or anyone laying face down you goto whoever is closet and say something, get in thier face, drop gloves whatever. too many times I saw people looking around at each other like, I didn't see anything...what happen to that guy.

You've just made an excellent argument for having Matt Martin start the year up here.

I'd rather have Matt Martin play then Gillies...that guy isn't much better the Wrecker who Garth was all about last year and just let go. I kind of would like for matt to start in Bridge and refine his game a bit more instead of being rushed but I don't want him being yo yo'ed up and down for specific games...he either gets 20+ games at the bridge and then comes up or starts up is how I feel.
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aries44475,Jul 13 2010
01:07 PM
smittyrules31,Jul 13 2010
01:02 PM
aries44475,Jul 13 2010
04:56 PM
Just want to jump in here and agree with Steve. That second year Guerin was here with Weight and Comrie, I remember all 3 of those guys sticking up for teammates at times by dropping the gloves. I have to assume it wasn't cause Comrie thought he could fight but it was a pack mentality that someone, whether it Guerin or Witt or a combo brought to the team.

I saw a few of our "young" guys stand around after a guy like Tavares got popped. it doesn't matter if you saw it or not but you JT or anyone laying face down you goto whoever is closet and say something, get in thier face, drop gloves whatever. too many times I saw people looking around at each other like, I didn't see anything...what happen to that guy.

You've just made an excellent argument for having Matt Martin start the year up here.

I'd rather have Matt Martin play then Gillies...that guy isn't much better the Wrecker who Garth was all about last year and just let go. I kind of would like for matt to start in Bridge and refine his game a bit more instead of being rushed but I don't want him being yo yo'ed up and down for specific games...he either gets 20+ games at the bridge and then comes up or starts up is how I feel.

:yes:

Absolutely.

Konopka will help. I think (more like hope) that "el stache" is only called up for certain games.

As for Martin. I hope to god he wins a roster spot but based on other Islander players,
he should be given one.
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stevedepot,Jul 13 2010
10:29 AM
I4C, wasn't referring to the game in Phoenix.
There were others. twice in Pittsburgh. one where Mat Cooke took liberties and
another (not on tavares) where Okposo did nothing but grab a jersey and talk.

We lost those games by the way.

I remember Bill Jaffe talking about Guerin and what he meant to Crosby's development and to the entire team. No one ever said boo to Crosby in the Pens locker until Guerin showed up.
He helped make him a better leader.

Okposo is somewhat of a leader (if you talk to his teammates) but not ready yet IMO
to even wear an A. Too much more growth is needed. Weight alone cannot provide the leadership needed to make Okposo a guy other teams fear.

Don't recall the Pitt games. I do recall the flyers game where Pronger boarded JT behind the play and no one did anything. To be honest, I'd understand if someone at that point saying, "OK. That's how it is going to be" and then running at Pronger's head even if the puck is no where near the person.

I don't approve of trying to injure players, but if they try to injure your guys, then a message must be sent. To be honest with you, I really UNDERSTOOD, not condoned, but understood, why Simon chopped Hollpig. When guys play reckless and there are no consequences, I understand when a player looses it and take matters into their own hands. Wasn't it funny how when Hollpig left the Rangers he was nailed the very next season with three boarding majors, but never as a Ranger?

I don't have a problem with Okposo wearing an A, simply because who else is going to? Guys look to him for leadership, but those are probably guys younger than him. Who was going to drop the gloves and go after Eaton or Jovo or Pronger... Park? Hunter? Bergenheim?

We need more Matt Martin's and what I mean by that are guys who can play and stand up for teammates (and of course I base that statement on his potential). We need more guys like we PROJECT M. Martin to be.

And I agree with you about Guerin and Crosby. One reason why I would not have been opposed to bringing Guerin back, but we know that wouldn't have happened.
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aries44475,Jul 13 2010
11:56 AM
Just want to jump in here and agree with Steve. That second year Guerin was here with Weight and Comrie, I remember all 3 of those guys sticking up for teammates at times by dropping the gloves. I have to assume it wasn't cause Comrie thought he could fight but it was a pack mentality that someone, whether it Guerin or Witt or a combo brought to the team.

I saw a few of our "young" guys stand around after a guy like Tavares got popped. it doesn't matter if you saw it or not but you JT or anyone laying face down you goto whoever is closet and say something, get in thier face, drop gloves whatever. too many times I saw people looking around at each other like, I didn't see anything...what happen to that guy.

Comrie has always thought he could fight. It is one of the things that I respected about him. Even when he was playing with the bad shoulder, he would still drop the gloves.
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Islander4cups,Jul 13 2010
09:29 AM
stevedepot,Jul 12 2010
08:07 PM
smittyrules31,Jul 12 2010
08:54 PM
Streit is not a seasoned vet?  Roloson?  I understand your point, but I think you may be overlooking a few guys.  And KO has been in the league for several years now, I would hope he no longer has a rookie mentality.  It is true that we are a young team, but that is the double-edged sword that going with a youth movement brings.

For what it is worth, I'm actually pretty impressed with the maturity and presence that most of our young guys have shown (Bruno and Tamby excluded...obviously), though I don't mean to say that those participating in the Prospect Camp have it, just those who have played at the club level.

Okposo has accomplished NOTHING yet.

I'm sorry, I love the guy. Look forward to him being here a LONG LONG time.
But he is a coward when it comes to standing up for your teamates.
Roloson won't teach that. Streit sure as hell won't teach that. Doug Weight will not teach that.
Nor will the moustache.

Perhaps Konopka can inspire guys to have a one for all and all for one attitude. TOO TOO TOO many times last year I saw our guys, our goalies and most of all, Tavares, take cheap shots and no one had the balls to drop the gloves and take one for the team. Certainly NOT Okposo.

That is not captain material and this is not a cyanide post. Assembling talent is one thing. DEVELOPING It is another. I am shocked and astounded at how many of our fans are infatuated with the notion of giving Okposo the C.

Sure, why not. Let him learn on the job just like our GM Snow.
We deserve better. This team needs real leadership.
They need a guy with a Stanley Cup ring. (Madden?) They need to think like a first class team
and stop pretending to be one.


:sick:

Steve...

While I agree with you that Kyle should NOT be the captain, I have a slightly different reason why. KO is not even 23 and hasn't had a steady vet influence to "train" him as captain. Weight has played 1.2 seasons for us...not enough time to train the kids.

As for KO's willingness to drop the gloves, this is an issue for a skilled player coming up through USA hockey and not Canadian Jrs. You can learn to fight in jrs, not in the USA hockey program or US youth hockey. Fighting is not KO's role. There have been plenty of good captain's that did not fight or did not "drop the gloves to stand up for a teammate".

I dont' recall Gretz doing it. Crosby only drops gloves when people are being held or aren't looking. Toews isn't a fighter. Even Dennis Potvin was not a fighter. It wasn't his role. He got into fights rarely. That was Nystrom, Howatt, Gillies job.

That is the main issue. If you have a captain in that mold, you will need guys to fill the "drop the gloves" role. We don't have that, but that doesn't mean KO can't be a good captain down the road. Especially if a Matt Martin can become a good player who can fight and we have others like that.

I agree that I don't see why so many are in a rush to give Kyle the C. Makes no sense, but I can see it happening in 5 seasons when he's GROWN into the role.

I saw Gretz fight once.....when he hit menopause. He scrummed about two years after Mario started fighting (post cancer). It was a one shot deal and I was shocked. If I can recall when and against who, I'll post it.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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Islander4cups,Jul 13 2010
01:51 PM
stevedepot,Jul 13 2010
10:29 AM
I4C, wasn't referring to the game in Phoenix.
There were others. twice in Pittsburgh. one where Mat Cooke took liberties and
another (not on tavares) where Okposo did nothing but grab a jersey and talk.

We lost those games by the way.

I remember Bill Jaffe talking about Guerin and what he meant to Crosby's development and to the entire team. No one ever said boo to Crosby in the Pens locker until Guerin showed up.
He helped make him a better leader.

Okposo is somewhat of a leader (if you talk to his teammates) but not ready yet IMO
to even wear an A. Too much more growth is needed. Weight alone cannot provide the leadership needed to make Okposo a guy other teams fear.

Don't recall the Pitt games. I do recall the flyers game where Pronger boarded JT behind the play and no one did anything. To be honest, I'd understand if someone at that point saying, "OK. That's how it is going to be" and then running at Pronger's head even if the puck is no where near the person.

I don't approve of trying to injure players, but if they try to injure your guys, then a message must be sent. To be honest with you, I really UNDERSTOOD, not condoned, but understood, why Simon chopped Hollpig. When guys play reckless and there are no consequences, I understand when a player looses it and take matters into their own hands. Wasn't it funny how when Hollpig left the Rangers he was nailed the very next season with three boarding majors, but never as a Ranger?

I don't have a problem with Okposo wearing an A, simply because who else is going to? Guys look to him for leadership, but those are probably guys younger than him. Who was going to drop the gloves and go after Eaton or Jovo or Pronger... Park? Hunter? Bergenheim?

We need more Matt Martin's and what I mean by that are guys who can play and stand up for teammates (and of course I base that statement on his potential). We need more guys like we PROJECT M. Martin to be.

And I agree with you about Guerin and Crosby. One reason why I would not have been opposed to bringing Guerin back, but we know that wouldn't have happened.

Totally agree.

:yes: :cheers:
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