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James Wisniewski Traded To Montreal; For Draft Picks
Topic Started: Dec 28 2010, 04:43 PM (1,935 Views)
Shooter
All Star
stevedepot,Dec 28 2010
09:50 PM
Good grief....reading some of the stuff just makes you wonder.

This Isles team, even though it's going nowhere, cannot afford to bump everyone up on defense by giving them more icetime and responsibility.
They aren't ready for it yet. We are so weak on defense.
Better off keeping Wisnewski till the deadline. You also send a terrible message to STH's and the fanbase.

It's not like we had a healthy Streit playing with Kaberle as the top pair and Wisnewski was on 2nd pairing.
He was being used as our number one because we had NO ONE ELSE to do so. Throwing someone else in the fire now
can only risk hurting them more than giving them "experience".

It's also not this one trade alone, this one move alone and us idiots analyzing/debating the trade in terms of "value".

It's the idiots in the front office for this team that continue to lie to us while pulling off mind numbing personnel moves.

This is simply a joke and I'm shocked by some of what I'm reading.

Steve, it's not their fault. They've been subjected to embarrassing management decisions and terrible hockey for so long some think Jon Sim is a wonderful player because "he hustles." Or Bruno Gervais was going to be an all star someday because he looks pretty in commercials or PU should be a first line line player because he scored a goal from a sharp angle on the PP or ...etc, You get the picture. It's an endless cast of characters taken in to just meet the min. payroll. Bring the college radio station in with interns. Demand experience for the Sparky role. Cupcakes on sale! Parking increased to $10. Tickets increased after a horrific season. Demand the last dollar left out of the last hard core fan.

But it comes down to one thing -- the damn building. It's the damn building's fault. No one will play here because of the damn building. In fact, I thought I heard Wiz say that as he was shown the door. "Glad I'm not playing in that damn building..." Or was it something like this, "I'm glad I'm out of a poorly run organization..."

:rofl:

The circus continues. The fans dwindle. But there will be the kool aid drinkers who are anticipating a playoff run in 2020. Pile up the draft picks! What a party we are going to have in June!!!!!!!!!
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Overspeed
1st line
Exactly, its not the building its the circus organization and clowns that run it, that is why noone signs here. Keep drinking the Kool Aid some of you, Wang enjoys pocketing your money, almost as much as the Kool Aiders enjoy cheering each & every stupid move.
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19!
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Shooter,Dec 29 2010
12:39 PM
stevedepot,Dec 28 2010
09:50 PM
Good grief....reading some of the stuff just makes you wonder.

This Isles team, even though it's going nowhere, cannot afford to bump everyone up on defense by giving them more icetime and responsibility.
They aren't ready for it yet. We are so weak on defense.
Better off keeping Wisnewski till the deadline. You also send a terrible message to STH's and the fanbase.

It's not like we had a healthy Streit playing with Kaberle as the top pair and Wisnewski was on 2nd pairing.
He was being used as our number one because we had NO ONE ELSE to do so. Throwing someone else in the fire now
can only risk hurting them more than giving them "experience".

It's also not this one trade alone, this one move alone and us idiots analyzing/debating the trade in terms of "value".

It's the idiots in the front office for this team that continue to lie to us while pulling off mind numbing personnel moves.

This is simply a joke and I'm shocked by some of what I'm reading.

Steve, it's not their fault. They've been subjected to embarrassing management decisions and terrible hockey for so long some think Jon Sim is a wonderful player because "he hustles." Or Bruno Gervais was going to be an all star someday because he looks pretty in commercials or PU should be a first line line player because he scored a goal from a sharp angle on the PP or ...etc, You get the picture. It's an endless cast of characters taken in to just meet the min. payroll. Bring the college radio station in with interns. Demand experience for the Sparky role. Cupcakes on sale! Parking increased to $10. Tickets increased after a horrific season. Demand the last dollar left out of the last hard core fan.

But it comes down to one thing -- the damn building. It's the damn building's fault. No one will play here because of the damn building. In fact, I thought I heard Wiz say that as he was shown the door. "Glad I'm not playing in that damn building..." Or was it something like this, "I'm glad I'm out of a poorly run organization..."

:rofl:

The circus continues. The fans dwindle. But there will be the kool aid drinkers who are anticipating a playoff run in 2020. Pile up the draft picks! What a party we are going to have in June!!!!!!!!!

How dare you put down management and the fans that believe them. Don't you know that they recently spent a fortune (to them) on a brand spanking new microwave oven?!!!! :rolleyes:

If that isn't committment then what else do you want? :rolleyes:


Firesale start, salary dump, the sad reality of the situation where many won't re-sign here or quality vets that won't come in the first place....whatever.


..........and the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round
John Tavares was 2 years old the last time NYI won a playoff series
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carbons2k
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Damn.. I liked him.
After a narrow victory in 1994, Boston Bruins defenseman Al Iafrate was asked why, in the closing moments of the game, he had fired the puck around the boards rather than into the empty net. His reply? "Empty-net goals are for faggots"
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25yearfan
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How will we ever replace such a great nickname (and cover art)?

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Islander4cups
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25yearfan,Dec 29 2010
03:35 PM
How will we ever replace such a great nickname (and cover art)?

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That's why they say...

NOBODY BEATS THE WIZ!!!!
I miss these :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: and want more of them
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Webb20
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Islander4cups,Dec 29 2010
03:45 PM
25yearfan,Dec 29 2010
03:35 PM
How will we ever replace such a great nickname (and cover art)?

Posted Image

That's why they say...

NOBODY BEATS THE WIZ!!!!

I always preferred this guy...
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I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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Ozzie307
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From ESPN - I agree with his take for the most part. If we're just looking from a hockey standpoint, whatever your opinion on Wiz is open for discussion but snow needs to make some moves that stick or this will turn into a "merry go round" rebuild. I also feel bad for the STH's...unless there is another move on the horizon but I doubt it.

Wiz trade doesn't add up for Isles
December, 29, 2010 Dec 2910:28AM ETEmail Print Comments By Mike Hume
As you’ve no doubt read by now, the Islanders dealt D James Wisniewski to the Montreal Canadiens for a second-round pick in this coming draft and a conditional fifth-rounder the following year.

The move has some Islander fans frustrated that this season's top defenseman -- who was also tied for the team lead in points -- was being shipped out, in December, for more draft picks. Yes, it’s yet another step in a seemingly never-ending rebuilding project, but everyone knows the Islanders aren’t going anywhere in 2010-11, so adding chips for the future makes sense. You can’t fault GM Garth Snow and the Islanders for that.

You can, however, fault the team for getting less than top value for one of their most coveted trade assets. And it certainly appears the Islanders sold a little low on Wisniewski.

The value of any tradeable asset is always relative to the market and already this season we’ve seen one team trade for an established blueliner, with the Washington Capitals acquiring D Scott Hannan from the Colorado Avalanche. In return for the veteran stay-at-home blueliner the Avs received Tomas Fleischmann one of the top young talents on the Caps’ roster (51 points in 69 games in 2009-10). That’s an NHL-ready contributor who has been a point-per-game player in his 12 games with Colorado.

As their career stats indicate, by any points-based comparison Wisniewski (.41 points per game in 286 games) is a better asset than Hannan (.23 ppg in 788 games). And Wisniewski seems to be flourishing with all of the power play time he’s received, already posting a career-best in the power-play points department. Such offensive skills have traditionally improved the value of a player on the trade market, so maybe Wisniewski's defensive shortcomings sapped his stock.

Defensive metrics are tricky to pin down and seldom tell an accurate story, but Wisniewski’s +/- was a very suspect minus-18. Pretty wretched. But considering he spent 70 more minutes on the ice than the next closest Islander and his team allowed 3.3 goals per game, while scoring just 2.3, that’s not as terrible as it could be. There are four other skaters and a goalie out there with him after all. For his career, Wisniewski’s +/- stands at plus-1, a figure that stood at plus-19 before he joined the Islanders.

Both Wisniewski and Hannan have contracts expiring after this season (as does Fleishmann’s) but Wisniewski is younger and any team acquiring him will have extra time to ink him to an extension, if they so choose (and with injured D Andrei Markov approaching free agency as well, that makes some sense for the Habs).

Compared to the Hannan trade it sure seems like the Isles got the short end of the deal, but that’s just one example. Take it back to last season’s trade deadline and the picture doesn’t get much better.

Last season, the Isles’ Andy Sutton was dealt for a second-rounder. And while the Islanders may have thought they’d stick to that price range for their top tradeable D commodity this season, it seems the Isles undersold last season as well. Other D-men switching teams at the trade deadline included Joe Corvo and Lubomir Visnovsky. Corvo netted Brian Pothier, a prospect and a pick from the Caps, while Visnovsky (and a sixth-rounder) returned Ryan Whitney.

While the Isles acquired Wisniewski for a conditional third-round pick in July, it certainly seems that D-men of Wisniewski’s caliber have yielded NHL-ready contributors in the recent past, which is obviously more than the Islanders received for him yesterday. But a rebuilding team doesn’t necessarily want talent ready to contribute immediately, more or less a pending free agent like Fleischmann, so draft picks make sense. But it’s tough to draw a conclusion until we know the value of a second-round pick. So exactly what is a second-round pick worth?

Last season, Alvin Chang of ESPN’s NHL Draft Blog studied that topic after we noticed second-rounders were common coin at the trade deadline.

While the Draft Blog is part of ESPN’s Insider package and you may not be able to see it in full, he found that since 1996 second-round picks have a 59-percent chance of reaching the NHL and a 25.8-percent chance of playing more than 82 games. Fifth-rounders? A 9.9-percent chance of playing 82 games in the league.

Draft picks are all well and good for rebuilding teams, but the Islanders essentially just traded their biggest chip for two lotto tickets with a 1-in-4 and 1-in-10 chance of winning a player that might give them equal production to Wisniewski. On average since 1996, defensemen taken in the second round average 20.9 points per season, forwards 31.9. Both totals are lower than what Wisniewski puts up on an annual basis. The Islanders would have to hit on both picks in order to better his production levels.

GMs have their own math for how they value picks, and I’m no GM, but from our math, this deal doesn’t add up for the Islanders.
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4CUPZ
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While the Draft Blog is part of ESPN’s Insider package and you may not be able to see it in full, he found that since 1996 second-round picks have a 59-percent chance of reaching the NHL and a 25.8-percent chance of playing more than 82 games.


OBVIOUSLY THEY DONT KNOW HOW THE ISLES ROLL
islander second-round picks have a 98-percent chance of reaching the NHL and a 84-percent chance of playing more than 82 games
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25yearfan
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I suggested this yesterday - and got smacked down as a "Garff" apologist already -- but I'm Sicilian so here goes anyway.

Is a bird in the hand worth two in the bush?

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For the record - I don't LIKE the move, and there are probably a dozen other reasons why I would like to see NYI management run out of town by someone who UNDERSTANDS hockey....

BUT The Wiz was on a limited engagement on Hempstead Turnpike, not re-signing (circular logic - see Management, NYI) and it's nowhere near the biggest problem this year, so c'est la vie.
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

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rst033
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Islander4cups,Dec 29 2010
09:46 AM
rst033,Dec 29 2010
07:13 AM
Islander4cups,Dec 28 2010
10:26 PM
rst033,Dec 28 2010
09:36 PM
I just have a feeling if the Islanders acquired Crosby & Phaneuf on same day most of you would smack yourselves on the forehead and lament the Islanders gave up this or that and this organization is the worst in the history of pro sports

Look the Islanders did not give up Denis Potvin today they gave up a player who is 26 and playing for his 4th NHL team-something should be said about that.

I don't like what Wang and Snow have done to this point. But Mike Milbury milburied the team with horrible drafts and horrible trades. Granted Garth Snow (the former back up goalie) has no track record or experience being a NHL exec but so far the Islanders are starting to collect some really good prospects. The Islanders are building from the ground up and you have a GM that seems to patient. 

what was Wisniewski's trade value? did he fit into the long term plans of this team? who else wanted to make a deal for him? was this trade in the works for weeks? do the picks give you more flexibility in terms of the quality of the draft or future trading chips? and would Wisniewski walk at the end of 2011?   

it could be that if Snow has a deal for Roloson it should bring back a few players and inoder to make room.........

rst... lets remember something. No one else might have been offering anything because the trade deadline is still 2 months away.

I'm not saying that getting a 2011 2nd rounder and a 2012 5th rounder is bad value for Wiz. I'm saying it is BAD VALUE for our needs in December 2010.

Just here me out...

We have the following dmen with under 3 nhl seasons- Hillen, Hamonic, MacDonald (and Gervais who plays like he does).

We have young talented forwards like Moulson, Tavares, Okposo and Bailey with no TALENTED physical veteran presence to play with any of them.

So are Mark Eaton, who was a 3rd pairing dman in Pitt and Jurcina, who couldn't catch on in Boston or Washington, the veterans you want leading your young defensemen into the future?

This team desperately needs a veteran presences that has SKILL, either on the blueline or the forward line. I'm not saying we will get a top 2 dman for Wiz or a top 6 forward, but do we really need to load up on another 2nd round pick while providing nothing for the likes of Okposo, Tavares, Hamonic, MacDonald for the next 2-3 seasons?

Yes, Garth got more for Wiz (2nd and a 5th) than he paid (3rd). And perhaps it was more than he would have gotten at the deadline. I don't see Garth getting better picks than that. However, I would have settled for a LEGIT third line player to show our scrubs on third and 4th line how it is done.

Maybe its just me. IDK. But Wiz is a decent dman. He was being stretched way too thin on this team being asked to do everything. If the Isles resigned him, we could have looked at a starting defenive 6 as...

Streit-MacD
Wiz- Hamonic
Eaton-deHaan (or Jurchina if deHaan is at the Bridge)

with the following as reserves...Jurcina, Hillen, Gervais.

Your PP would have Streit and Wiz at the point.
Your 1st PK could have MacD and Eaton on it.

That would likely be the best d corps we've had since Stirling was on LI. Plus, each kid could be sheppared by a veteran.

Instead, we are looking at getting by more with kids and no one to show them the ropes...not just for the rest of this season, but for next season as well.

That is why I'm angry with this deal. Our need is a veteran who can play and can teach the kids. Weight can't do that. He's hurt. Same w/ Hunter. Sim never could because he never learned himself.

How is this deal filling that role...which is our biggest need?

just my 2 cents. If this deal was made within a week or two of the deadline, I'd get it. In December, I don't.

dude every time the Islanders gave up a soft goal who was on the ice? the wiz that's who.

imo the team is better off without Wiz and it's debatable IF the Islanders would have gotten more value at the deadline. if anything the value would have been less because the wiz could walk after the season rendering the Islanders nothing

as an Islander fan it's easier to be one when they're winning, and I know for a few years they've kind of become the Pittsburgh Pirates or KC Royals of the NHL

and I agree hiring the back up goalie to be your GM makes it appear you're not a serious owner

BUT

let's all remember the all stars Mike Milbury traded away-all the european prospects that never made it over the atlantic ocean the Nabokov for Dumont deals or potentially having Loungno in net and Chara playing in front of Roberto

these are monumental errors that result in more losing and more rebuillding-

the Islanders need to rebuild the core of the team that core is struggling because it is young. this Islander team is a text book example of when you rebuild-for a month they'll get shellacked and the next month they'll look like no one can beat them

I say enjoy the ride I wonder what other kid at Bridge (Wes O'Niell) will be here to get a crack at the NHL and that cup of coffee that could be a solid contributer

there you go solid contributor something the wiz was not

nice move by Snow and now after a month Caps has been the HC and this is the 1st guy they get rid of

sorry rst but that comment has me shaking my head.

This idea that you keep loading up your team with kids and HOPE THEY PROGRESS without veteran leadership is crazy. I can throw a bunch of ingredients in a bowl and chuck it in the oven, but if I don't have THE RIGHT ingredients and if I haven't prepared those ingredients correctly, I don't want to eat what exits that oven. You can eat it. From the above comment, you might already be (j.k)

Look at the progress we've seen from Tavares and Bailey. Bailey was sent to the minors in year 3. How is that progress? How is he developing? Bailey is a player who can net 20+ and 60 points a year. When he was drafted, and we've seen flashes of this in his time on LI, his biggest skill is his passing. Well, here he is in year 3 and who the FFFF does he have to pass to on his line? Seriously, who is the finisher? Franz Fracking Nilssen? Are you kidding me? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Here we are in Tavares' second season. Who have we added to his line? PA Papsmear? :rofl: :rofl: A Rangers' 4th liner they chose not to resign.

Are you going to let these two nuggets of your "player development" continue to wither on the vine because we couldn't bring in a Recchi or an Umburger type to help them along the way? What happens in year 4 and 5 of their nhl careers when they are still playing with the Richard Parks, PA Papsmears and Franz Neilssen's of the world? You think it bodes well for this organization to screw up a John Tavares? Do you think him having to wait another 2-3 seasons for the arrival of Nino Nieder or our 2011 2nd round pick is going to help his development...or Bailey's?

There is nothing wrong with stockpiling young talent in and of itself. But our player development has been TERRIBLE. And part of that has been not having the right vets to bring kids along. Do you think it is a concidence that Trent Hunter's best seasons were his first three when he had veteran leadership THAT COULD PLAY on this team to play with?

I'll ask again...

Who is the on ice leader that is bringing along the likes of Bailey, Tavares, Moulson, Hamonic, MacDonald???

Who is the vet presence that is going to help Matt Martin realize and play like the kid who can be more than a 4th liner (which I think he can easily be)?

Who is the veteran that can help Grabner to become more than just the fastest skater on the ice? The kid has ridiculous wheels and good hands. He can develop into a decent player. But who is Grabner learning from right now? Schremp? Rob hasn't learned yet that all his fancy stickhandling needs to create space for himself.

So when you explain to me who is going to help these kids to improve, I'll look at the trade as being a good one. As I mentioned before, getting what he got for Wiz wasn't bad as far as value goes, but we don't need extra picks when the kids we have now are STARVING for veteran leadership. That is a more pressing need.

Islander4cups

don't get me wrong and I agree with you-they player development has been awful. and so has the strength and conditioning. I agree that the front office has neglected the team-and I'm not here to make excuses for them at all

but you pull the trigger on the Wisniewski deal because it's addition by subtraction. there where many teams in the market for a defensemen and I really believe the Islanders picked up maximum value for a player Larry David was describe as "eehhhh"

Islander fans take a deep breath count to ten and ensure yourselves that the NY Islanders will be A-OK without Wisniewski

feel better now??

and I know we need players the Islanders need NHL ready talent to improve the team I get it!! but a step in that direction is rid yourself of a Wisniewski
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Islander4cups
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Rst. U r making wiz out to be gervais

He will more than contribute in mtl & now we play gervais the rest of the year. Wiz is better than u think & when uridine is hurt again... He always is...u have only eaton w experience
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stevedepot
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All day today I saw alot of posts in many places by Isles fans praising Garth Snow for turning the 3rd round pick we gave up for Wisnewski into a 2nd and 5th.
Amazing how Snow still has any support.

Wisnewski and his salary needed to be moved from a cap strapped team (Ducks) so a 3rd for his salary at the time was the going rate.
So much more I can add but this thread means nothing anymore because he's no longer an Islander and we won a hard fought game against a great team.


25yearfan, love that bird in the hand commercial reference.
:lol: :cheers:
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25yearfan
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stevedepot,Dec 29 2010
11:14 PM
All day today I saw alot of posts in many places by Isles fans praising Garth Snow for turning the 3rd round pick we gave up for Wisnewski into a 2nd and 5th.
Amazing how Snow still has any support.

Wisnewski and his salary needed to be moved from a cap strapped team (Ducks) so a 3rd for his salary at the time was the going rate.
So much more I can add but this thread means nothing anymore because he's no longer an Islander and we won a hard fought game against a great team.


25yearfan, love that bird in the hand commercial reference.
:lol: :cheers:

Thanks. I'm here all week.
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

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19!
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Did Wiz diss NYI attendance? He said, it's nice here (Montreal) they sell out and it doesn't matter if it's a Tuesday or a Saturday.
John Tavares was 2 years old the last time NYI won a playoff series
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IslandersWin86
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19!,Feb 11 2011
05:59 AM
Did Wiz diss NYI attendance? He said, it's nice here (Montreal) they sell out and it doesn't matter if it's a Tuesday or a Saturday.

They all do. Koskinen even said he'd love to play in front of that crowd every night.

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Islander4cups
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19!,Feb 11 2011
05:59 AM
Did Wiz diss NYI attendance? He said, it's nice here (Montreal) they sell out and it doesn't matter if it's a Tuesday or a Saturday.

MTL also knows they have a team that will make the playoffs every season
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IslandersWin86,Feb 11 2011
10:15 AM
19!,Feb 11 2011
05:59 AM
Did Wiz diss NYI attendance?  He said, it's nice here (Montreal) they sell out and it doesn't matter if it's a Tuesday or a Saturday.

They all do. Koskinen even said he'd love to play in front of that crowd every night.

That crowd is amazing. MTL is the best supported team in the league even when they miss the playoffs. They take over many road arenas too. Just look what they did here the past few years. I think Wiz's dig was that NYI's weeknight attendance is so bad. Even worse than the lousy weekend numbers. He said it with a smirk.
John Tavares was 2 years old the last time NYI won a playoff series
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OlTimeHockey
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19!,Feb 11 2011
12:37 PM
IslandersWin86,Feb 11 2011
10:15 AM
19!,Feb 11 2011
05:59 AM
Did Wiz diss NYI attendance?  He said, it's nice here (Montreal) they sell out and it doesn't matter if it's a Tuesday or a Saturday.

They all do. Koskinen even said he'd love to play in front of that crowd every night.

That crowd is amazing. MTL is the best supported team in the league even when they miss the playoffs. They take over many road arenas too. Just look what they did here the past few years. I think Wiz's dig was that NYI's weeknight attendance is so bad. Even worse than the lousy weekend numbers. He said it with a smirk.

Maybe it was a dig a GarfGarf? The players are what they are. They keep fans here, but they can only do so much ("You're playing with Bruno tonight").

Ideally, he's mention Garth and give a trademark gesture, but I think that's be classless. (and heroic)
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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