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Islanders on thin ice: Old arena, weak play
Topic Started: Jan 16 2011, 08:05 AM (3,507 Views)
Jackace
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2nd line
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings. If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf. And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA. But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.
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Mulefan
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IslandersWin86,Feb 15 2011
02:48 PM
Mulefan,Feb 15 2011
02:42 PM
OlTimeHockey,Feb 15 2011
03:48 AM
19!,Feb 15 2011
03:19 AM
OlTimeHockey,Feb 15 2011
02:51 AM
Or he'll extend the current lease he's making money on. Maybe five years if he wants to play hardball later for his Wangland, or fifteen if he's given up on Wangland. The current lease makes him money. Imagine if the State were to put the earmarked money into renovating the place that they're supposed to be doing with said money? Wang would be a fool to not sign immediately if they gave him the same terms.

Maybe he'd hire real talent if he knew playoff revenue would line his pockets even moreso? (doubt it....the old lease guaranteed he's make the best money with the playoffs and he still acted like a drunken ass with hirings).

All this talk about revenue gains of ownership in Nassau by Wang as opposed to a tenant in Queens etc. is missing 1 very important thing - Nassau is fiscally a mess, broke and can't afford to pay for cops or the light bill. The cart has been put before the horse here. No arena will be built in Nassau for Wang to have control of all revenue, concert, parking, concession items etc. None. Time to look elsewhere.

How will he extend the current lease if it ends in 2015? When he and Bettman said they won't stay a minute past when the lease is up? How will he get the same parking, concessions, concerts revenues he gets now from Dem Suozzi under the GOP post 2015 when it will change?

You're acting as if post 2015 in Nassau is a given when Nassau is broke and TOH doesn't care with no arena in sight there..

Yeah.....and I said the STATE, which has funds, uses the funds.....when did I say Nassau County was going to pay for anything? They're going to try and become #1 in the highest overpaid cop tournament again, probably, but they don't have the money to pay for Wang's parking hike the way things are.

So I said the STATE.

BTW, Bettman also said he likes women. I wouldn't take what he says as gospel. If Wang is happy with the money part and redid the lockerrooms....what's Bettman gonna say?

"Sorry, you gotta move and we're fining your coach for not controlling the bathroom lines."

Once again, Nassau's out of the picture. They only deal with the lease renewal. That should be a slam dunk. Or did you miss the turnabout D'Amato and Mondello did? (Or is this another GOP hate post?) Wang has leverage. Quebec wants them. KC wants them. The Mets are down but not out. Nassau can't afford to lose the revenue with the vacancy rate making developing the area useless for some time.

If you haven't noticed, the state is also a huge fiscal mess who are cutting school aid and other things much more important than a hockey arena. If Wang wants to build just another arena he is gonna have to pay for all of it on his own and we all know that isn't gonna happen.

As far as extending the current lease, I don't see that ever happening. He still claims to be losing money every year and extending the current lease isn't gonna change that. He certainly isn't gonna sign players like Tavares, Okposo, Bailey and the rest what they are gonna ask for when their current contracts are up or add to the payroll while claiming to lose money. The last thing I want is for them to extend the lease only to run the organization on the cheap and have to trade away the good young players we are developing now.

Actually, I don't remember him saying anything about how much money he has or hasn't been making since they restructured the lease...he's coming up on one full year of full control though. I remember the Forbes article recently that had a number much much less than the $20mil he was claiming before.

He is also running the team on a bare minimum payroll. If we are gonna improve we are not just gonna have to ante up for the young developing players we have now, we also need to add a couple of expensive pieces. So unless he is making a decent profit now extending the lease isn't gonna do the trick unless you want us to keep running the team as is which will lead to us losing our best young players because we won't be able to afford them.
Pete
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Jackace,Feb 15 2011
04:56 PM
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings. If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf. And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA. But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.

I'm sure Charles Wang would gladly offer you his REAL set of books for your evaluation.


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Shooter
All Star
stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
07:48 PM
Jackace,Feb 15 2011
04:56 PM
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings.  If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf.  And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA.  But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.

I'm sure Charles Wang would gladly offer you his REAL set of books for your evaluation.

:o :lol:
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rst033
4th line
lets face the facts how much money do you need for a new arena? $500mil? the TOH gave the greenlight for a new building. so i don't know what the problem is.

well we know what the problem is, Wang bought the team to get the inside track to develop the area with condos and office buildings-by the wayy Nassau county and downstate NY doesn't have the economic backbone to support new condos and office buildings. so this big white elephant called the lighthouse project was a waste of time.

what brings is back to the current and only tenants of NVMC the Islanders

pluses:

great TV contract
huge market
great history

minuses

bad arena deal no money from concessions or parking no luxury boxes
no train service
far from NYC
Nassau/NY economy in the dumps

the best result for the Islanders is move right next door to Citifield
easy to get too-trains cars
close to Manhattan -more attractive to free agents

a new arena adds revenue to the Islander making it a more viable franchise

what's the value of the islanders right now? 200mil? move it closer to NYC in a new building add another 150-200 to the overall value.
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IslandersWin86
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^ - arena lease was changed so Wang now has complete control of concessions, parking , etc.

- driving to citi field is a bitch. Train ride from Long Island is a pain too.

Value of Islanders right now is hovering around 150 mil
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
IslandersWin86,Feb 15 2011
09:58 PM
^ - arena lease was changed so Wang now has complete control of concessions, parking , etc.

- driving to citi field is a bitch. Train ride from Long Island is a pain too.

Value of Islanders right now is hovering around 150 mil

Did you see the local reports today about Trump hinting at buying the Mets?
Wonder if he would also...

:dontknow:
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oldislesfan
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everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

B)
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The average dog is nicer than the average person
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Jackace
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2nd line
stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
07:48 PM
Jackace,Feb 15 2011
04:56 PM
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings.  If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf.  And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA.  But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.

I'm sure Charles Wang would gladly offer you his REAL set of books for your evaluation.

I guess that is exactly my point. No one knows for sure what his financial situation is, even though there are lots on this board who profess that they do know. :yes:

I like sarcasm too. ;)
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25yearfan
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You can call me Joe.
stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
11:23 PM
IslandersWin86,Feb 15 2011
09:58 PM
^ - arena lease was changed so Wang now has complete control of concessions, parking , etc.

- driving to citi field is a bitch. Train ride from Long Island is a pain too.

Value of Islanders right now is hovering around 150 mil

Did you see the local reports today about Trump hinting at buying the Mets?
Wonder if he would also...

:dontknow:

Where would he put the giant gold "T" on the unis?
Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

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rst033
4th line
IslandersWin86,Feb 15 2011
09:58 PM
^ - arena lease was changed so Wang now has complete control of concessions, parking , etc.

- driving to citi field is a bitch. Train ride from Long Island is a pain too.

Value of Islanders right now is hovering around 150 mil

really didn't know that


bottom line is Wang screwed up.


as far as Queens goes just avoid the Grand/Van Wyck and just take the Cross you should be fine

but if the Isles stay in Uniondale that would also be great


this team needs to be relevant again let's hope a real Islander fan with the ability and the money to get things done buys the team it is really a great franchise
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IslandersWin86
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stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
10:23 PM
IslandersWin86,Feb 15 2011
09:58 PM
^ - arena lease was changed so Wang now has complete control of concessions, parking , etc.

- driving to citi field is a bitch. Train ride from Long Island is a pain too.

Value of Islanders right now is hovering around 150 mil

Did you see the local reports today about Trump hinting at buying the Mets?
Wonder if he would also...

:dontknow:

I vote for Mark Cuban. Things would be exciting at least, and God knows he'd play hardball.
Posted Image
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Shooter
All Star
Wang got greedy, showed his cards that the hockey team he owns was just a chip to get a huge chunk of land and many more millions in his pocket. The Islanders would become much more important to him if the TOH had bent over and given into his demands. Now we have a team that reminds me of the movie Major League. Put a cardboard Wang in a dress at the front of the Coliseum and everytime the Islanders win, take a piece of it off. :D
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
Jackace,Feb 16 2011
06:22 AM
stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
07:48 PM
Jackace,Feb 15 2011
04:56 PM
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings.  If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf.  And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA.  But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.

I'm sure Charles Wang would gladly offer you his REAL set of books for your evaluation.

I guess that is exactly my point. No one knows for sure what his financial situation is, even though there are lots on this board who profess that they do know. :yes:

I like sarcasm too. ;)

Jack, no one on this board is professing they know anything anymore than you are professing that your professional opinion could give us a more accurate assessment than what we know.

I personally am tired of hearing the crying from Wang and his selected media cronies
inflating their losses and I will certainly not argue with Forbes.

Some have suggested that Wang might actually be profiting with the new concessions
and entertainment monies but like you say, we do not know for sure.

He has proven himself to be a liar and a cheat in past so I do not believe anything that comes from his mouth or any of his supporters but people are free to believe or give him the benefit of the doubt.


BTW, we had a GREAT game day...excuse me, evening thread last night. You should have joined us.



;)
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OlTimeHockey
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Shooter,Feb 16 2011
09:29 AM
Wang got greedy, showed his cards that the hockey team he owns was just a chip to get a huge chunk of land and many more millions in his pocket. The Islanders would become much more important to him if the TOH had bent over and given into his demands. Now we have a team that reminds me of the movie Major League. Put a cardboard Wang in a dress at the front of the Coliseum and everytime the Islanders win, take a piece of it off. :D

You want that first pick, don't ya?

Yeah, Pittsburg comes back and we either have the GAME OF OUR LIVES and fight and claw and beat down the Cindyrellas....

or we see Wang's lo main noodle......

NOT a good idea.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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OlTimeHockey
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rst033,Feb 15 2011
09:31 PM
lets face the facts how much money do you need for a new arena? $500mil? the TOH gave the greenlight for a new building. so i don't know what the problem is.

well we know what the problem is, Wang bought the team to get the inside track to develop the area with condos and office buildings-by the wayy Nassau county and downstate  NY doesn't have the economic backbone to support new condos and office buildings. so this big white elephant called the lighthouse project was a waste of time.

what brings is back to the current and only tenants of NVMC the Islanders

pluses:

great TV contract
huge market
great history

minuses

bad arena deal no money from concessions or parking no luxury boxes
no train service
far from NYC
Nassau/NY economy in the dumps

the best result for the Islanders is move right next door to Citifield
easy to get too-trains cars
close to Manhattan -more attractive to free agents

a new arena adds revenue to the Islander making it a more viable franchise

what's the value of the islanders right now? 200mil? move it closer to NYC in a new building add another 150-200 to the overall value.

More like $200M

Retrofitting an existing building with buildout and so on would be pricy but along those same lines.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

查理斯 · 請死你混蛋
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OlTimeHockey
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stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
07:48 PM
Jackace,Feb 15 2011
04:56 PM
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings.  If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf.  And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA.  But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.

I'm sure Charles Wang would gladly offer you his REAL set of books for your evaluation.

Careful with those books.....
Posted ImagePosted Image
(Ira Zar and others are not on Yahoo photos)
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

查理斯 · 請死你混蛋
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stevedepot
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WISENHEIMER
I hope Donald Trump wasn't just blowing smoke again recently about the Mets.
I hope he's serious and I hope he could someday buy our Isles.
Then he'd turn to Garth and say...

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OTH, I don't think they're worth 200 million...even with the tv contract.

:dontknow:
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OlTimeHockey
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stevedepot,Feb 16 2011
03:29 PM
I hope Donald Trump wasn't just blowing smoke again recently about the Mets.
I hope he's serious and I hope he could someday buy our Isles.
Then he'd turn to Garth and say...

Posted Image



OTH, I don't think they're worth 200 million...even with the tv contract.

:dontknow:

Forgot to bold the right part. (thanks, Steve)

This team's NO WHERE NEAR worth $200M. Wang would have a team worth $200M if he fired Milbury and stayed out, but that Junk has sailed.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

查理斯 · 請死你混蛋
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Jackace
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2nd line
OlTimeHockey,Feb 16 2011
03:26 PM
stevedepot,Feb 15 2011
07:48 PM
Jackace,Feb 15 2011
04:56 PM
I'm a former accountant/analyst and I'm not sure how anyone on this baord can definitively say how much wang has profited or lost with the hockey operation side of his business without seeing his annuals and filings.  If you are going solely by Forbes valuations you would need to see what information the NHL had handed over to them on their behalf.  And I would assume that the NHL submits numbers that makes them look far more dire to the league to help their position in a CBA.  But unless you are privy to the real numbers you are merely speculating what you feel...which doesn't make it true.

If anyone has Wangs Isles' operation's numbers I would love to take a look at it for my own curiosity.

I'm sure Charles Wang would gladly offer you his REAL set of books for your evaluation.

Careful with those books.....
Posted ImagePosted Image
(Ira Zar and others are not on Yahoo photos)

Its better than making sh!t up and pawning it off as the truth.
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