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| Why we started this rebuild...; Look no further than our crosstown rival | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 21 2011, 03:23 PM (1,325 Views) | |
| Snowy | Apr 21 2011, 03:23 PM Post #1 |
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The Dark Knight
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You know it's funny, as I listen to Ranger fans call WFAN today, the common complaint is that "they only need scoring". Hmm.. that's interesting. They ONLY need scoring. That's like me waking up this morning and saying, man, I'm only a million dollars away from being a milliionaire. Scoring is the hardest thing to acquire in this league BY FAR. Take us back to 06-07. We had Jason Blake, Alexei Yashin, Ryan Smyth, Trent Hunter, Viktor Kozlov, and Mike Sillinger as our top goal scorers. All of whom were either past their prime or never really had a prime. We made the playoffs. We lost Blake, Smyth, and Kozlov to free agency. Sillinger wound up retiring. We bought out Yashin. In hindsight, none of those players were franchise players. None of them were players you could build around, even though at the time they made us competitive enough to crawl into the playoffs. They were barely good enough. We had zero good young players. We had no franchise players. We had nothing. We purposely get bad. We draft high for what will be the fourth summer in a row. We not only fill up our prospect pool with mid level talent, but we have two or three front line gems to go along with the depth. We also got a gift from Florida in Grabner, a very lucky, lucky gift. Now this team hasn't learned to win, but it has something that you can't teach: scoring. This team scores. You can teach how to play defense. You can teach how to work a PP or a PK. You can teach systems. You CANNOT teach scoring. And with teams locking up their top offensive players to 5-10 year contracts these days, it is nearly impossible to find on the open market. And if you do find it, be prepared to pay $100 million. The Islanders are by far from a finished product. But they have a lot of highly skilled offensive talent on their way as well. Hopefully, they add another player to that group during this Draft. We were an 8 seed every season. We would scratch and claw to make the playoffs, just to play close games in the first round but still lose in 5 games. Maybe the Islanders could have continued that cycle of mediocre play, but they blew it up and started over. I said two years before they did it that they should rebuild, and 4 years after the rebuild started we see how the talent level has increased overall. It's night and day. Take us across the East River to Madison Square Garden. The Rangers have recently drafted well. They have drafted Dubinsky, Callahan, Staal, Stepan, Anisimov. They have a good crop of young players. But here is the difference: they are lacking the 2 or 3 blue chip, front line players that we have. The gems that they can never acquire in the draft because they never pick higher than 10th. They brought in players like Jagr and Gaborik in their prime. In Jagr's case they got him at the tail end of his career. In Gaborik's case, he doesn't fit in with their team. There is no chemistry. He sticks out like a sore thumb. And what has happened is that now they are in the same position that we were in, where they have to bring in the Fedotenkos (just like we did) and overpay for Chris Drury and Scott Gomez and pay them like they were 1st liners. They are in a cycle of mediocrity. Only difference is that they cannot blow it up and start over, especially not now. It's too late. Their young players are getting good enough now where they will be a playoff team most years. But they are missing the front line fire power. And that's why they won't win. My dad has told me many times that the Rangers were a good team in the late 70s and early 80s. They were sometimes a very good team. The only problem for them was that the Islanders were a GREAT team. A legendary team. And they just couldn't stack up with that. No team could. You can see the writing on the wall that the same thing is starting to happen. The Rangers had good players back then. The Islanders had great, HOF players back then. The Rangers now have a good young core. The Islanders are starting to develop a great young core. We can have debates about Wang and Snow all day long. We've been doing it day in and day out for years. We can debate about what they're going to do (or not do) this summer also. But the one thing is, and Steve has this recently in one of the threads, that no matter what you think about the owner or GM, the talent that this organization is starting to develop has to get everyone excited. And while its up to the GM to take the next step, we currently have the deep and talented prospect pool needed to become more than a perrenial 8 seed that the Rangers are. |
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| Man in the Box | Apr 21 2011, 04:18 PM Post #2 |
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The Godfather of Online Hockey
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great post... only issue is we cant attract the veterans we need to sprinkle in to bring us to the next level... these kids have talent sure.. but they dont know how to win and go for the kill in the 3rd period... our ownership is mediocre at best.. we need to invest more in scouting if we keep building from the draft.. and we need to figure out what to do with dp.. he is an anchor right now holding us down.. we arent anywhere near the cap so i say keep him as a back up and find an underpaid talent like poulin or montoya and ride them... make him back up till he retires.. his career is over... better days are behind him... we just have so many issues that have no answers at this time... seems hopeless |
| HELLO BROOKLYN, MY NAME IS JOHN TAVARES | |
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| 19! | Apr 21 2011, 04:24 PM Post #3 |
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1st line
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Why we started the rebuild? To save money. |
| John Tavares was 2 years old the last time NYI won a playoff series | |
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| LEDZEP | Apr 21 2011, 04:43 PM Post #4 |
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The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
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we started a rebuild
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Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... ![]() What puckhead says is Islander law Come in with the milk "A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough." Ronald Reagan | |
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| Snowy | Apr 21 2011, 05:23 PM Post #5 |
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The Dark Knight
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Even if you would like to use your negative opinion on why it started, the end result is that we are in a better position to succeed than we were in 2007. So regardless of the reason, we are better off. MITB, things aren't hopeless. The DP issue is huge, but we would have had that same issue had we decided not to rebuild. It doesn't make things easy, that's for sure. Top free agents wont come here, but mid-level free agents might as long as they aren't lowballed offers. The Isles are going to lose a lot of season ticket holders this offseason. Not sure how they plan on drawing anybody if they don't bring anyone in come July. They can't cry "poor us" anymore, nobody's buying it. They need to sell themselves better or do whatever they need to do to bring in two or three guys. The fan outlook on ownership is at an all time low, Snow's public perception is awful. The talent pool has been upgraded tremendously though. As I said originally, we are "set up" to be successful. Whether or not Snow can bring us to the next step is a totally separate issue. |
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| 3POTI | Apr 21 2011, 05:37 PM Post #6 |
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Bring back...PRIDE OF THE ISLAND
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first off..excellent post snowy... this will be the make or break year..I see big things happening in the offseason..don't be surprised to see a big name free agent sign with the islanders.
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Today Is A Great Day To Be An Islander Fan! Live For The Moment! | |
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| SniperGod22 | Apr 21 2011, 07:11 PM Post #7 |
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I love this post. Finally the post I've been looking for. Management and ownership are the the ire of all fans. That being said this TEAM has a ton to offer and nowhere to go but up... We as the fans should see that and separate "the team" from "the bosses". We have had to put up with early summers and high picks for awhile but looking back it is worth it and being a top seed in a year or so is way better than being an eight or nine seed every year. Great post Snowman!
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| stevedepot | Apr 21 2011, 07:29 PM Post #8 |
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WISENHEIMER
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Great stuff Snowy. Totally agree with just about everything! But 19! brings up a great point too and I don't think he meant it as argumentative or as sarcastic either. Wang didn't get his bloated Lighthouse and he packed it in financially. This summer we'll see. They won't spend. The DP quagmire will continue but as Snowy says, we have guys who can produce. That's more to work with and build around if the right owner and GM care to spend instead of defend their ineptitude with deceptive nonsense. |
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| The Moose | Apr 21 2011, 08:25 PM Post #9 |
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i CAN has a goal!
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If we just invest MARGINALLY MORE than the dead weight coming off the books, we should upgrade the roster. A top 6 forward and a #3 or #4 D should cost you $6.5 million total. |
![]() The Hardhat Line, doing work in an NHL arena near you. | |
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| Man in the Box | Apr 21 2011, 09:15 PM Post #10 |
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The Godfather of Online Hockey
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the core is ready for greatness.. bailey needs some1 to show him the way.. he has a ton of talent.. it showed in the first 2 weeks this year.. he got hurt and got side tracked... okposo has all the tools to become a 35-40 goal scorer... tavaras the same... all these kids we got are just that.. kids... they will grow into great talents.. harminac, nino, okposo, jt, bailey, mm, and the rookie of the year... its there... we just need 2 or 3 impact players to bring us to the next level... 4th seed or higher in the division... its right there for us to take... we can score.. we can play d .. we can stop pucks.. just not all at once most times... gotta put it all together... it can happen if wang puts himself out there one more time... lose money, gain fans.. gain fame.. gain another cup... its worth it in the long run.. |
| HELLO BROOKLYN, MY NAME IS JOHN TAVARES | |
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| Overspeed | Apr 21 2011, 09:20 PM Post #11 |
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I agree with what people are saying but as long as DP goes 5-15 and gets blown out most of those nights, the team goes nowhere. People say wait til he gets injured, but hell play in 20 games and put the team in a huge hole every time. |
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| SniperGod22 | Apr 21 2011, 09:59 PM Post #12 |
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I am going to stay positive on this. Obviously DP has a large salary and the bosses will feel an obligation to play him , however they team still needs to win. If Montoya or Poulin are playin better it is my firm belief that they will play, especially when DP craps the bed early. |
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| rst033 | Apr 22 2011, 06:07 AM Post #13 |
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4th line
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and the rebuild started because the Islander system was barren. You need organizational depth to be competitive. Players come and the go they get hurt they peek they lose drive-you need to always replenish the system with players and prospects. you watch some of these playoff games and you see so many x Islander player it's kind of like missing out on something. but overall your points are great and right on point, |
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| king glorious | Apr 22 2011, 06:36 AM Post #14 |
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All Star
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fantastic post. I completely agree. and considering what everybody seems to think that we had to grosly overpay to bring in any players, well then if you really think about it, did we really even have a choice. Maybe someday everybody will look back and say wow it was genius for wang to shut it down the way we did for three years... more likely wang will always be an idiot. But I am excited about the next 3 years... and then I am moving to KC or canada or wherever else. |
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| Webb20 | Apr 22 2011, 08:11 AM Post #15 |
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Godfather
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Great post Snowy. And it's not just us who recognize what a fine core we are building. I just came back from Ontario, and those Canadians love to talk hockey. I was in heaven, and every last one said "what's wrong with your Owner, is he crazy, eh? A backup goalie as GM?", then they'd follow it up with "What a great bunch of kids you got up there, and you must really be looking forward to next season, they are going to be good". It's truly a Dr. Jykle, Mr. Hyde type of conversation. You have the Owner talk, then you have the team talk, two completely different sides of the spectrum. I guess we are the bipolar team of the nhl. |
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I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas! "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan | |
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| shark1000 | Apr 22 2011, 08:37 AM Post #16 |
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4th line
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Great points Snowy. While we were always struggling for the 8th seed in the early to mid 2000's, the one aspect of being a season ticket holder I always loved was when the weather started to get better in March/April and we had meaningful games at the coliseum. I was ok with "just" getting into the playoff because "anything can happen" and I truly believe the coliseum is a GREAT playoff arena (largely due to the crowd and it's small size). But in the end the 8th seed was probably the best that could be expected. MAybe not in 2001-02 when we had a legit shot to go deep into May, but there was no way our team was going to be able to achieve any higher than a first round exit. This team has a lot of talent. Playoffs should be in the cards next year, but we still need to see how our team handles "meaningful" games in MArch/April. It's easy for Grabner to goal hang when we're 20 points out of a playoff spot. But when we have a 3-2 lead with 5:00 minutes to go in a game we need to win, how does our team respond. Looking forward to next season. |
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| Snowy | Apr 22 2011, 12:03 PM Post #17 |
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The Dark Knight
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Great stuff everyone. Great points about separating ownership/front office from the team. I wasn't trying to say that 19! was wrong at all. My point was just that sometimes you take a wrong turn but still find the way to your destination. No matter how we've gotten to this point, we're still here. I want to point out what Shark said specifically. Is there anything better than the weather warming up and having meaningful games at the Coliseum? Tailgating in the parking lot, the excitement in the air. It honestly is great. There was a point in time where this fanbase just craved playoff hockey. There was a time where it didn't matter how we got in, just getting in was all that mattered. But after four straight first round exits, that wasn't good enough anymore. But as Shark said, and rightfully so, people wanted more. That's why this rebuild needed to happen. This gets more complicated because of the mystery of where this team will be playing hockey games in 2015-16, but is there any doubt that this will be a team that will win a playoff series at some point in the next three or four years? The way this team is starting to come together, hard to think otherwise. |
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| Jackace | Apr 22 2011, 02:18 PM Post #18 |
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Total speculation on my part, but I think Wang asked Snow how long of a rebuild would be needed to set the team to compete at a high level for a long period of time and Snow told him 4,5,6 years. He gave Snow assurances that his job will not be affected by results on the ice if he built the farms up with talent for the future. Wang probably thought his LH project be have shovels in the ground by then, which would create more momentum. From all accounts of former and current players Wang is very patient, loyal and methodical and he is not in the business of losing money. Could he have stripped the team to bare-bones for those lean years to draft high before he sees the opportunity to make moves when the time is right? Could he be fooling all of us? With the depth on the farms and the decent talent coming soon I still hold out hope he will green-light some signings soon. He spent $ before and cant be blind to the results. Hopefully, he will do it again...soon. If he spends to the cap floor again this offseason he will have proven to me he is not a serious owner. |
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| IslandersWin86 | Apr 22 2011, 02:46 PM Post #19 |
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All Star
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Post evoked emotion. Tough to admit. Must be a man. |
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| stevedepot | Apr 22 2011, 02:57 PM Post #20 |
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WISENHEIMER
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What results though? As a result of his ineptitude in favorable, blind hiring (not excluding family members), we have ZERO, count em, ZERO playoff series wins under his ownership spanning 11 years. This summer shouldn't be the summer that 'proves" his ineptitude to anyone should he not spend over the cap floor, but I do respect your opinion none-the-less Jackace. I just have a strong disdain for Wang and how he's destroyed the very franchise I love for the sake of his greed. He has many fooled. Not me. and btw, from the other thread on TOH/Lighthouse counterproposal. You are correct, it was a 50% reduction. Not 30%.
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