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TSN's Gord Miller on Isles; via Botta's Point Blank
Topic Started: Apr 28 2011, 08:26 PM (1,163 Views)
stevedepot
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rst033,Apr 30 2011
06:54 AM
wow talk about being negative about he Islanders.

I love the point about Lundquist that he's a cornerstone goalie but I'm looking at the teams that made it past the first round-the only elite goalie is Luogno and Henrik is not even playing at all buuhoo and then Miller claiming that hey the Isles are soo bad look at their goalie situation. ok the contract they gave Risk was stupid but he islanders have addressed the issue.

the second point that it's easy to win when your out of it as Miller says ignores how the team had performed from late December to the end of the season, Miller ignored the New Years Eve game in Detroit that saw an Islander team battle back a few times and win the game-a turning point for the team. this team battled back and stuck up for themselves and more important found points.

to cap it off Miller says the Islander blue line has to improve (no sh!t) and that the team needs puck moving defensemen and Chris Botta points out the Isles have that in Streit who was out for the season. once again Miller is just being negative

Gord Miller is a blow hard

If we had any semblance of direction the last few years or any, under Wang...perhaps I'd respond just as you did to someone giving a candid opinion on our team.
But taking the Isles blinders off....


Miller specifically said, the Islanders NEED MORE PUCK MOVING DEFENSEMEN!!!!!!! Did he not???

:blink:

He pointed out that the GOOD teams, you know, the ones that make the playoffs,
have more than one puck mover and more offensively gifted/rounded defensemen.

I goof on the Queen, but that bastid is better than anyone we have even though he's choked come playoff time.....as has Luongo in his career.

Miller didn't ignore how the team played till end of year...
If you watched games he's called and when they do out of town scores,
you'd hear him actually COMPLIMENT us throughout the year when we went on lil above .500 stretches. Unfortunately, you are evaluated at seasons end for the body of work. Your record is your record.

Why should he sugarcoat his heart felt opinion about the team as a whole
by tossing in a game vs Detroit where we they battled back???
What does that have to do with the season of work???

Josh Bailey was one of the best players in the NHL for a week and a half stretch early in the season. How did his season end up? The truth hurts. Really stings. embrace it, learn from it and demand BETTER from the owner, GM and coach.
The culture needs to change. Rebuilding through the draft alone doesn't cut it.

If you want a positive or just positives...read some of the non traditional coverage about this team. Unfortunately...die hard fans who really know the game feel embarrassed for some of them. Alot of them are great people. Great fans but just don't know enough. Wow, that sounded as pompous as it gets.
My apologies to all offended by this. I'll be in the timeout corner.

:bag:
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4CUPZ
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the second point that it's easy to win when your out of it as Miller says ignores how the team had performed from late December to the end of the season


AND JUST WHAT WAS THE TEAM IN FROM LATE DECEMBER TO THE END OF THE SEASON???
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puckhead,Apr 29 2011
03:02 PM
Its funny----when Gord Miller criticizes us he's right on the money.....and when I do it, I'm called negative. :D :rolleyes: :P

Not in my book puckhead ~ your the best poster on the board
NO EQUAL.......... :torrey:
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puckhead
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LEDZEP,Apr 30 2011
03:05 PM
puckhead,Apr 29 2011
03:02 PM
Its funny----when Gord Miller criticizes us he's right on the money.....and when I do it, I'm called negative. :D  :rolleyes:  :P

Not in my book puckhead ~ your the best poster on the board
NO EQUAL.......... :torrey:

:thumbsup: :yes: :D
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rst033
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stevedepot,Apr 30 2011
07:16 AM
rst033,Apr 30 2011
06:54 AM
wow talk about being negative about he Islanders.

I love the point about Lundquist that he's a cornerstone goalie but I'm looking at the teams that made it past the first round-the only elite goalie is Luogno and Henrik is not even playing at all buuhoo and then Miller claiming that hey the Isles are soo bad look at their goalie situation. ok the contract they gave Risk was stupid but he islanders have addressed the issue.

the second point that it's easy to win when your out of it as Miller says ignores how the team had performed from late December to the end of the season, Miller ignored the New Years Eve game in Detroit that saw an Islander team battle back a few times and win the game-a turning point for the team. this team battled back and stuck up for themselves and more important found points.

to cap it off Miller says the Islander blue line has to improve (no sh!t) and that the team needs puck moving defensemen and Chris Botta points out the Isles have that in Streit who was out for the season. once again Miller is just being negative

Gord Miller is a blow hard

If we had any semblance of direction the last few years or any, under Wang...perhaps I'd respond just as you did to someone giving a candid opinion on our team.
But taking the Isles blinders off....


Miller specifically said, the Islanders NEED MORE PUCK MOVING DEFENSEMEN!!!!!!! Did he not???

:blink:

He pointed out that the GOOD teams, you know, the ones that make the playoffs,
have more than one puck mover and more offensively gifted/rounded defensemen.

I goof on the Queen, but that bastid is better than anyone we have even though he's choked come playoff time.....as has Luongo in his career.

Miller didn't ignore how the team played till end of year...
If you watched games he's called and when they do out of town scores,
you'd hear him actually COMPLIMENT us throughout the year when we went on lil above .500 stretches. Unfortunately, you are evaluated at seasons end for the body of work. Your record is your record.

Why should he sugarcoat his heart felt opinion about the team as a whole
by tossing in a game vs Detroit where we they battled back???
What does that have to do with the season of work???

Josh Bailey was one of the best players in the NHL for a week and a half stretch early in the season. How did his season end up? The truth hurts. Really stings. embrace it, learn from it and demand BETTER from the owner, GM and coach.
The culture needs to change. Rebuilding through the draft alone doesn't cut it.

If you want a positive or just positives...read some of the non traditional coverage about this team. Unfortunately...die hard fans who really know the game feel embarrassed for some of them. Alot of them are great people. Great fans but just don't know enough. Wow, that sounded as pompous as it gets.
My apologies to all offended by this. I'll be in the timeout corner.

:bag:

read your points and that's cool

i was seeing things the way you are: the owner sucks the team sucks the front office sucks the islanders just suck

but i see the light look at the light man!!! there is light at the end of the tunnel!!!!! don't you see it???????

listen kidding aside i'm/was a huge sports fan I love the Yankees when they were just as bad the Jets the Knicks etc as far as a spectator of pro sport go, i really think this current Islander team/franchise has turned a corner-we should be excited about next year & not be negative that's all. and i know the Isles are in a fragile state it can go either way next year either lottery pick another top 5 or maybe just maybe a shot at the playoffs.



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puckhead,Apr 29 2011
02:02 PM
Its funny----when Gord Miller criticizes us he's right on the money.....and when I do it, I'm called negative. :D :rolleyes: :P

Oh come on...don't be so negative about your negativity
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rst033,Apr 30 2011
06:54 AM
wow talk about being negative about he Islanders.

I love the point about Lundquist that he's a cornerstone goalie but I'm looking at the teams that made it past the first round-the only elite goalie is Luogno and Henrik is not even playing at all buuhoo and then Miller claiming that hey the Isles are soo bad look at their goalie situation. ok the contract they gave Risk was stupid but he islanders have addressed the issue.

the second point that it's easy to win when your out of it as Miller says ignores how the team had performed from late December to the end of the season, Miller ignored the New Years Eve game in Detroit that saw an Islander team battle back a few times and win the game-a turning point for the team. this team battled back and stuck up for themselves and more important found points.

to cap it off Miller says the Islander blue line has to improve (no sh!t) and that the team needs puck moving defensemen and Chris Botta points out the Isles have that in Streit who was out for the season. once again Miller is just being negative

Gord Miller is a blow hard

If he wants to go by the goaltending situation, then I guess the Flyers have sucked since Ron Hextall finished his first stint there?

Yes, the Isles have a bunch of holes, but I do have to laugh when he tries to hold the Rangers up as some sort of great organization. Sorry, but no. Sing the praises of Callahan & Dubinsky all you want, but I think both are simply better and avg talents at best, but don't conveniently forget about all their terrible deals & contracts...Gaborik being only the most recent.

BTW, didn't they draft a goalie in the top 6 of his draft who currently sits in our lockerroom? Yeah, Slats is a ffffing genius...I forgot.
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Islander4cups
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I'll say this, Botta needs to stick with print media. On camera he's brutal. Stop interrupting your guest and here is a thought, ask a question like you have a pulse. It was like watching an episode of Larry Sanders only someone slowed down the film by about 25 rpm.
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Islander4cups,Apr 30 2011
09:50 PM
I'll say this, Botta needs to stick with print media. On camera he's brutal. Stop interrupting your guest and here is a thought, ask a question like you have a pulse. It was like watching an episode of Larry Sanders only someone slowed down the film by about 25 rpm.

That maybe because he wasn't expecting Miller to blast them as he did. I think that surprised him.
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stevedepot
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tsharaf,May 1 2011
07:33 AM
Islander4cups,Apr 30 2011
09:50 PM
I'll say this, Botta needs to stick with print media.  On camera he's brutal.  Stop interrupting your guest and here is a thought, ask a question like you have a pulse.  It was like watching an episode of Larry Sanders only someone slowed down the film by about 25 rpm.

That maybe because he wasn't expecting Miller to blast them as he did. I think that surprised him.

That's exactly what it seemed like to me.

By the way, Marc Staal is someone I'd take 1st on my team over any defenseman we have including MacDonald.

I goof on the Rags, hate and :blah: :blah: :blah:
But he is better than anyone we have.
To even hint that Hamonic is better or will be after one season is a stretch.

Sather is a bumbling fool but in Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, Kreider, McDonagh and Gilroy they have a good core of young up and coming players who they've drafted, traded for and signed to gain experience surrounded by high ticket guys and some mistake contracts.
While they are building their team differently. The experience THEIR youngsters are getting is both good and bad. They gain valuable leadership from veterans yet also see the slacking of overpaid players.

Back to Staal...if you can find me 1 NHL GM who right now would take any of our defenseman over Staal I'll pay your mortgage.

Del Zotto will be back for them eventually just like Bailey will come around for us.

Ok, point made...Ranger hate glasses back on...

:ragssuck: :ragssuck: :ragssuck:
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Islander4cups,Apr 30 2011
09:50 PM
I'll say this, Botta needs to stick with print media. On camera he's brutal. Stop interrupting your guest and here is a thought, ask a question like you have a pulse. It was like watching an episode of Larry Sanders only someone slowed down the film by about 25 rpm.

It was uncomfortable to watch! :cheers:
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rst033
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Islander4cups,Apr 30 2011
09:18 PM
puckhead,Apr 29 2011
02:02 PM
Its funny----when Gord Miller criticizes us he's right on the money.....and when I do it, I'm called negative. :D  :rolleyes:  :P

Oh come on...don't be so negative about your negativity

:rotflmao:
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Islander4cups
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stevedepot,May 1 2011
08:33 AM
tsharaf,May 1 2011
07:33 AM
Islander4cups,Apr 30 2011
09:50 PM
I'll say this, Botta needs to stick with print media.  On camera he's brutal.  Stop interrupting your guest and here is a thought, ask a question like you have a pulse.  It was like watching an episode of Larry Sanders only someone slowed down the film by about 25 rpm.

That maybe because he wasn't expecting Miller to blast them as he did. I think that surprised him.

That's exactly what it seemed like to me.

By the way, Marc Staal is someone I'd take 1st on my team over any defenseman we have including MacDonald.

I goof on the Rags, hate and :blah: :blah: :blah:
But he is better than anyone we have.
To even hint that Hamonic is better or will be after one season is a stretch.

Sather is a bumbling fool but in Callahan, Dubinsky, Staal, Girardi, Kreider, McDonagh and Gilroy they have a good core of young up and coming players who they've drafted, traded for and signed to gain experience surrounded by high ticket guys and some mistake contracts.
While they are building their team differently. The experience THEIR youngsters are getting is both good and bad. They gain valuable leadership from veterans yet also see the slacking of overpaid players.

Back to Staal...if you can find me 1 NHL GM who right now would take any of our defenseman over Staal I'll pay your mortgage.

Del Zotto will be back for them eventually just like Bailey will come around for us.

Ok, point made...Ranger hate glasses back on...

:ragssuck: :ragssuck: :ragssuck:

I'm not down on Staal. To the contrary. I'd love to have him. I wouldn't put AMac or Hamonic over him for sure.

But lets look at the Rangers picks the past few years under Slats...

2006- 1st round Bobby Sanguanetti (how'd he work out)?

Look at their 2007 draft. Their first rounder passes away, but no one else from that draft is going to be a Ranger either. In fact, Slats did such a good job, they didn't have another pick until the 5th round.

In 2005, they had 5 picks in the first 77... 1 first rounder which was STaal- great pick at 12, but two in the second and two in the third...and none of them will be Rangers.

2004- 7 picks in first three rounds...only one who will be a ranger...Dubinsky- the last of FOUR second round picks taken that year. The Rangers hit on Dubinsky, but missed on 19th, 36th, 48th and 51st picks that year. Just because your 5th pick in the draft makes it doesn't mean you are "developing your youth" the right way.

How'd they do developing Al Montoya? Wait, I miscounted. The Rangers had TWO first round picks in 04... Montoya at 6th overall and Lauri Korpikoski at 19th. That means they actually had EIGHT PICKS IN THE FIRST THREE ROUNDS and the only one to contribute to the Rangers was Dubinsky.

How about their 2003 12th pick overall Hugh Jessiman? How about 10th overall Dan Blackburn in 2001? They sure ruined him.

Yes, the Rangers have some nice young players now, but we don't know wtf Del Zotto will turn into. He could be the next Bryan Berrard for all we know...great rookie year and then disappears.

This idea that the Rangers do a great job of developing young talent... :rofl:
I'll offer the names of Sanguetti, Montoya, Hugh Jessiman, Dan Blackburn, Lee Falardeau, Ivan Baranka, Darin Olver, Dane Byers, Bruce Graham, Michael Sauer, Marc-Andre Cliche, Bob Sanguinetti, Artem Anisimov, Antoine Lafleur, Michael Del Zotto,

For every Derek Stepan (who is only 20 and went straight from his soph year of college & wjc to the Rangers...much like Okposo) there are a ton of busts they have in both the first and second round.

Even if you claim that Callahan (4th round), Dubinsky (2nd round), Staal (12th overall), the cornerstone of the organization for the next 8 years, they aren't knocking anyone's socks off except Staal. Callahan is an excellent 3rd liner on a really good team and so is Dubinsky, plus wait a few years until he starts racking up suspensions for his dirty play.

Sorry, but I don't see a ton of kids being developed by the Rangers "the right way". Much like their $$$$ hole of an arena, it is overhyped because it is midtown Manhattan.
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stevedepot
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I4C,
you took it in a whole different direction.
The Rags are using later draft picks and developing them the right way.
We can easily throw in Snow's and Milbury's draft's that sucked in there.
For every MONTOYA F up the Rags have, we have our share too.

But that's not what the discussion was about. Not whether Sather is perfect and has done a wonderful BODY of work with the rags.

It's about the state of their collective youthful core now vs ours.
2 different teams. Us finishing bottom 5 and restocking.
Rags finishing middle of the pack but grabbing some decent players, signing decent players (Girardi) and having a good core of youth that's coming together.

I take ours over theirs but they're are not far off.
That is what Miller was most likely alluding to.

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QUOTE=stevedepot,May 1 2011, 04:12 PM] I4C,
you took it in a whole different direction.
The Rags are using later draft picks and developing them the right way.
We can easily throw in Snow's and Milbury's draft's that sucked in there.
For every MONTOYA F up the Rags have, we have our share too.

But that's not what the discussion was about. Not whether Sather is perfect and has done a wonderful BODY of work with the rags.

It's about the state of their collective youthful core now vs ours.
2 different teams. Us finishing bottom 5 and restocking.
Rags finishing middle of the pack but grabbing some decent players, signing decent players (Girardi) and having a good core of youth that's coming together.

I take ours over theirs but they're are not far off.
That is what Miller was most likely alluding to. [/QUOTE]
Steve...

I'm not comparing their drafting and development to ours and saying we are better. Oh no. I'm simply saying they suck too.

They have Staal taken at 12. We have DeHaan. Am I saying he's going to be as good as Staal? I don't know. Only time will tell and since he hasn't played game 1 in the nhl yet, I have no basis to say he will. But look at Hamonic (2nd round) and AMac (both drafted after the first round of their drafts and young...and I'd argue played better than those not named Staal)

Look at the Rags blueline...

Garardi is 27... definitely a solid dman.
Gilroy is 26- nice player but I'm not doing backflips over him. Both he and Garardi were undrafted FAs
McDonagh- drafted by MTL and developed in college Spent no time in the Rags development program. They were just smart enough to not rush him to the nhl.
Sauer- nice player. 2nd round pick. I'll take Hamonic over him any day of the week.

So in short, they have their bluechipper in Staal and some nicely developing dmen in Gilroy, McDonagh, Sauer & Garardi. Yes, the Rags have more young guys developing on the blueline, but I don't think any of these guys other than Staal is a top pair dman...not on a legit contender. And once you throw deHaan, MacD & Hamonic in the mix..we will have a nice core too...not to mention that for a decade we drafted HORRIBLY ON D under the MM regime.

We have Amac & Hamonic...who based on their age and minutes & roles they were asked to play this year, I will put up against anyone in a Rags uni minus Staal. BTW, lets not forget that the Rags are further along in the development of their blueline than we are because they STARTED earlier. Hamonic is younger than anyone on that Rags roster. So is DeHaan. Who knows what Matt Donovan will be??? (I'm not holding my breath yet)

I'm simply saying that the Rags haven't been wonderful at developing their own talent. I think they are waaay overrated in both their drafts and their player development.

Look at Callahan last season. We were all up in arms when he made USA over Okposo. I still think Kyle deserved that spot over him and that he simply made it because of Torts and that he already PK with Drury so they came as a pair & knew eachother. KO's development this year was killed by the shoulder. Callahan's season cut short due to the injuries, but he had a great year. I'd love to see what KO would have done if he played with Grabs on day 1.

I'm certainly not defending our player development, but I'm nausiated when the rags are held up as somehow "doing it right". They aren't doing it that well and if Lundqvist didn't bail them out so much, they'd be a 10 seed every year.

And we are much further along in developing top forward talent. They are developing mid line talent up front.
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I4Cs I am only confused on one of your arguements...actually I find it humorous..The idea that you think any ranger would receive suspensions in this bettman ruled nhl with his penpal colie, is very laughable...when you said in a few years dubinsky would be receiving suspensions with his dirty play..only way that happens if the rags trade the son of gun.. :)
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3POTI,May 1 2011
06:58 PM
I4Cs I am only confused on one of your arguements...actually I find it humorous..The idea that you think any ranger would receive suspensions in this bettman ruled nhl with his penpal colie, is very laughable...when you said in a few years dubinsky would be receiving suspensions with his dirty play..only way that happens if the rags trade the son of gun.. :)

LOL... great point.

I was thinking he's go elsewhere as a UFA, but lets face it... no one will overpay him like the Rags can
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The 24 year old Staal is, right now, the best defenseman in the tri-state area. No question about it. However, the one thing I will say is at this point the 20 year old Hamonic has the higher upside of the two hands down.

Lets start off looking at both defensively. Staal has turned into a true shutdown defenseman in every sense. Other than the one time Ovechkin blew by him in Game 5 for a highlight reel goal, he probably stopped Ovechkin cold on 20+ of the same kind of rushes for the entire series. On the other hand, Hamonic is nowhere near that kind of level yet, but when he was drafted it was as a potential shut down defenseman. He showed great promise at being that kind of player but still had plenty of ups and downs that a 20 year old dman playing in the NHL will always have. Time will tell if Hamonic ever gets up to that level.

This is where Hamonic has a MAJOR leg up on Staal. Staal played 80 games his first seasons, 82 games in seasons 2 and 3, and this season he played 77. Staal's point totals in each season have been 10, 15, 27, and 29. That was with getting PP time this year. Hamonic, in his rookie season and playing in 62 games, put up 26 points.

Now, you will hear most likely that the Rangers don't ask Staal to produce offense and if asked to he would. I think that's a load of crap. There are very few defensemen in this league that play like Bobby Orr or Paul Coffey anymore so you dont really see monster offensive numbers. But you still see moderate offensive production from many defensemen. There were 28 defensemen in the league who produced 40+ points this season. It's not a lot to ask for. So, with that, to me Staal is developing into a stay at home defenseman. Hamonic has a chance to be a strong two-way defenseman. And as we've seen this season, it's important to have that offense on the back end to go along with the stellar defensive play.
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rst033
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you have to love how Capuano is developing Hamonic. Hamonic got quality ice time pp ice time and they let the kid take the shots at the net and develop that part of his game.

that's why a few of us get annoyed when a guy like Gord Miller says ehhh the islanders are terrible they need better players, he hasn't watched how this young core of players are starting to develop into real good players and a real good team.

ehh Garth Snow he's a terrible gm..yea well what about Michael Grabner? hey allot of team wanted Grabner means nothing-but look how Grabner played under Gordon & then under Capuano the talent was their what are you going to do about it? Jack knew Gordon, Panthers and Canucks couldn't figure it out.

look at Matt Moulson??how do you like that pick up??? o well Snow got lucky ok well what about Striet & Montoya and PA Konopka Nino Amac a 6th round pick and whoever

get my point?

is the glass half empty or half full?
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Jackace
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rst033,May 3 2011
05:46 PM
you have to love how Capuano is developing Hamonic. Hamonic got quality ice time pp ice time and they let the kid take the shots at the net and develop that part of his game.

that's why a few of us get annoyed when a guy like Gord Miller says ehhh the islanders are terrible they need better players, he hasn't watched how this young core of players are starting to develop into real good players and a real good team.

ehh Garth Snow he's a terrible gm..yea well what about Michael Grabner? hey allot of team wanted Grabner means nothing-but look how Grabner played under Gordon & then under Capuano the talent was their what are you going to do about it? Jack knew Gordon, Panthers and Canucks couldn't figure it out.

look at Matt Moulson??how do you like that pick up??? o well Snow got lucky ok well what about Striet & Montoya and PA Konopka Nino Amac a 6th round pick and whoever

get my point?

is the glass half empty or half full?

Or the argument can be made that this guy Gord Miller has seen every NHL team play a couple times a year over several years and basis his opinion relative to the other 29 teams out there. He has no dog in the fight. Therefore, isn't he the perfect guy to listen to about an objective opinion on the state of the Isles?
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