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RFA's & UFA's to go for?; why?
Topic Started: May 15 2011, 12:57 PM (1,066 Views)
stevedepot
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3POTI,May 16 2011
03:17 PM
does anyone really believe they won't bring back bruno? bruno comes back signing a two year two way contract.

That right there is more depressing than my rundown post.

:angry: :goofy2:
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Mulefan
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Webb20,May 16 2011
02:26 PM
Even Zach Parise isn't worth 4 1st round picks and at 7+ million a year it's what you'd give up for him. The only way you offer an RFA a contract is if that team is so close to the cap AND you are not going to spend more than $5,231,246 per year on the offer (one 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd). After that you have to give up more than 1 1st round pick. That player would really have to be special and you have to be prepared to be disliked by a very large group of GMs.

I could care less about pissing off other GMs. Not like they have been dealing with us on an even level over the past few years anyway. They have taken advantage of our lowered status for years. IMO a player of Parises caliber both on the ice and in the locker room is worth the first rounders. We have enough young talent to build around. Parise would put us back on the map and show other GMs and players that we are a legitimate NHL team again. IMO it is time to add a legitimate leader to push these kids to the next level. Parise's game and his tenacity could do nothing but rub off on the kids in a good way. Just my opinion. I am sick of not being in the playoffs and won't accept any excuses for not making them any more. I totally expect them to make the playoffs next season whether they make moves or not anything less is unacceptable. If they wanna get fans like me back into the building they are gonna have to prove they are a playoff team. No more we are improving bullshit!!! I can only take that for so many years and have been hearing it for a decade now and they still haven't cracked the playoffs even as a lousy 8 seed.
Pete
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Lexhair
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Have to target a first pair UFA defenseman if you're going to do anything in the market. No more chasing other teams 7th defenseman.

Here's the math for you php nerds (like me).

$Eaton + $Mottau != $Bieksa
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OlTimeHockey
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Mulefan,May 16 2011
03:31 PM
Webb20,May 16 2011
02:26 PM
Even Zach Parise isn't worth 4 1st round picks and at 7+ million a year it's what you'd give up for him.  The only way you offer an RFA a contract is if that team is so close to the cap AND you are not going to spend more than $5,231,246 per year on the offer (one 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd).  After that you have to give up more than 1 1st round pick.  That player would really have to be special and you have to be prepared to be disliked by a very large group of GMs.

I could care less about pissing off other GMs. Not like they have been dealing with us on an even level over the past few years anyway. They have taken advantage of our lowered status for years. IMO a player of Parises caliber both on the ice and in the locker room is worth the first rounders. We have enough young talent to build around. Parise would put us back on the map and show other GMs and players that we are a legitimate NHL team again. IMO it is time to add a legitimate leader to push these kids to the next level. Parise's game and his tenacity could do nothing but rub off on the kids in a good way. Just my opinion. I am sick of not being in the playoffs and won't accept any excuses for not making them any more. I totally expect them to make the playoffs next season whether they make moves or not anything less is unacceptable. If they wanna get fans like me back into the building they are gonna have to prove they are a playoff team. No more we are improving bullshit!!! I can only take that for so many years and have been hearing it for a decade now and they still haven't cracked the playoffs even as a lousy 8 seed.

I think Helsinki Syndrome enters when we start thinking any number of first round picks is not worth a top player in the game.

Four is high.....but is four picks worth four years of going to the second round or beyond if it meant so? I say yes.

The Isles with Parise pick 20th plus or minus some....maybe later given JT, MG, Rick DiPietro (I almost threw up tying that), etc. Now if we gave up a 20th pick in 2012, a 24th pick in 2013, a 22nd in 2014 and a 29th in 2015, would it be worth it? If Parise averaged 38 goals a year and elebated Tavares past 100 pts each year, would it be worth it?

It's tough, but fans have to get back to the attitude of old: do what it takes to win. We got part one (slow and steady rebuild). Part two is acquiring talent to supplement (Grabs is nice and not an easter egg like Moulson or others at the bargain bin but still was a waiver pickup). Having limited success at part two, Snow has to show more than waiver pickups and retreads. Part three is trades to turn our roster into a better winner, which it seems like we're years away from. That last ingredient trades that would send a Bailey and Martin out for Richards or something.....a statement that we're close and now unstoppable. THAT is something we might never see.

But it has to be done. If we luck out and sign Parise to an eight year $6M deal we trade draft picks for 99.9% guaranteed success.....and I do it.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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Islander4cups
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Mulefan,May 16 2011
01:15 PM
Add Parise and two physical defensemen and you have an automatic playoff team and I am talking a four or five seed not an eighth seed. You would also see a dramatic rise in attendance. Enough young prospects already. Time to bring in a game changing leader IMO.

You aren't giving up 4 #1s to the Devils to get Parise, which is what it would take because they can pay him 6-8 mill a year with Arnott's contract gone.

If you say you will, then I'm calling you Mike Ditka from now on ;)


I'd love to have Zac, but the price will be too steep.

Also, we might have some good prospects, but we are also going to have to replace guys in the next 3-4 years...Streit, Martinek, Jurcina, Eaton, Hunter and others who contribute more or little. In the salary cap age, once you get good, you better keep bringing players up through your system...ie Detroit... or you will be stuck in mediocre for a long time...Rangers

We went the quick fix to playoff relevancy in 01 and it let to one good series and three other first round flameouts. We need to go BEYOND that and signing Parise and two good Dmen will not allow us to continue to rebuld the MORE pieces we will need if we are giving up 4 #1 picks.

Personally, I'd lvoe to bring Weber and Laich to this club. That would be a GREAT offseason. Personally, I don't think Weber leaves and I'll be surprised if the Caps don't move Semin so they can keep Laich. He's more valuable to that Caps team.
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OlTimeHockey
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Islander4cups,May 18 2011
11:54 AM
Mulefan,May 16 2011
01:15 PM
Add Parise and two physical defensemen and you have an automatic playoff team and I am talking a four or five seed not an eighth seed. You would also see a dramatic rise in attendance. Enough young prospects already. Time to bring in a game changing leader IMO.

You aren't giving up 4 #1s to the Devils to get Parise, which is what it would take because they can pay him 6-8 mill a year with Arnott's contract gone.

If you say you will, then I'm calling you Mike Ditka from now on ;)


I'd love to have Zac, but the price will be too steep.

Also, we might have some good prospects, but we are also going to have to replace guys in the next 3-4 years...Streit, Martinek, Jurcina, Eaton, Hunter and others who contribute more or little. In the salary cap age, once you get good, you better keep bringing players up through your system...ie Detroit... or you will be stuck in mediocre for a long time...Rangers

We went the quick fix to playoff relevancy in 01 and it let to one good series and three other first round flameouts. We need to go BEYOND that and signing Parise and two good Dmen will not allow us to continue to rebuld the MORE pieces we will need if we are giving up 4 #1 picks.

Personally, I'd lvoe to bring Weber and Laich to this club. That would be a GREAT offseason. Personally, I don't think Weber leaves and I'll be surprised if the Caps don't move Semin so they can keep Laich. He's more valuable to that Caps team.

This makes too much sense and would be why I would no pay the draft picks for Parise.

But if w landed Zach, it wouldn't hurt us long term due to the age of our emerging talent. Taking a few years off (despite us having 2nd, 3rd, etc. picks) vs. a top winger in the NHL for our top center and so on? I'd shoot for the moon for the long term benefit. Parise is THAT good.

But your argument has merit. The Isles HAVE TO continue the build from now on to ensure we keep interest/faith in them.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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Islander4cups
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OlTimeHockey,May 18 2011
12:31 PM
Islander4cups,May 18 2011
11:54 AM
Mulefan,May 16 2011
01:15 PM
Add Parise and two physical defensemen and you have an automatic playoff team and I am talking a four or five seed not an eighth seed. You would also see a dramatic rise in attendance. Enough young prospects already. Time to bring in a game changing leader IMO.

You aren't giving up 4 #1s to the Devils to get Parise, which is what it would take because they can pay him 6-8 mill a year with Arnott's contract gone.

If you say you will, then I'm calling you Mike Ditka from now on ;)


I'd love to have Zac, but the price will be too steep.

Also, we might have some good prospects, but we are also going to have to replace guys in the next 3-4 years...Streit, Martinek, Jurcina, Eaton, Hunter and others who contribute more or little. In the salary cap age, once you get good, you better keep bringing players up through your system...ie Detroit... or you will be stuck in mediocre for a long time...Rangers

We went the quick fix to playoff relevancy in 01 and it let to one good series and three other first round flameouts. We need to go BEYOND that and signing Parise and two good Dmen will not allow us to continue to rebuld the MORE pieces we will need if we are giving up 4 #1 picks.

Personally, I'd lvoe to bring Weber and Laich to this club. That would be a GREAT offseason. Personally, I don't think Weber leaves and I'll be surprised if the Caps don't move Semin so they can keep Laich. He's more valuable to that Caps team.

This makes too much sense and would be why I would no pay the draft picks for Parise.

But if w landed Zach, it wouldn't hurt us long term due to the age of our emerging talent. Taking a few years off (despite us having 2nd, 3rd, etc. picks) vs. a top winger in the NHL for our top center and so on? I'd shoot for the moon for the long term benefit. Parise is THAT good.

But your argument has merit. The Isles HAVE TO continue the build from now on to ensure we keep interest/faith in them.

See, I think landing Zac helps us SHORT TERM in that we become a better team the next 2-3 seasons, but when we have to replace guys we lose to UFA in say 5 years (look at Chicago and Pitt...they couldn't sign them all), then we will need guys to fill in for the depth guys and the 2nd line/3rd line talent we lose (provided we keep building).

Our 2012,13,14,15 1st round picks can be emerging right at the time we need to decide about UFA deals again for guys named Moulson, Tavares, Okposo, Hamonic, deHaan, nino, Bailey and so on... If we sign those guys, provided they develop, then we probably can't resign guys on third and fourth line...which means that is where we will need those picks to develop...and if they turn out to be picks 19-30 in the first round, then we'll probably need them instead of waiting for picks 54 in the second.

I understand people's need to want to get back to the playoff's next year, but I'm not sure Parise gets us beyond round 2 in say 2014. If we make a move like that, it has to be more than "just get back to the playoffs". It has to be with making a serious run in mind 2-3 years down the road.

Although, briinging in a Parise and Weber would also be an interesting statement for that August vote.
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OlTimeHockey
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Parise at his age gets us into the playoffs not just 2-3 years but 8-10 if we stay smart.

He's one of the RARE guys I'd do it for, and young, and THAT GOOD.

If we were talking a 28 year old Doug Weight a dozen years ago I say no, but Zach is different. The plan isn't the playoffs THIS season, it's the playoffs EVERY year. He might keep us from signing Moulson - but he's astronomically better than Moulson.

Now what of the guys to replace them? I'm hoping by then we can trade players for other players by then. Snow's gotta be on chapter four by now. By 2016, he should finish GM'ing for Dummies.


Just my $.018 (Canadian)

"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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Snowy
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OlTimeHockey,May 18 2011
10:43 PM
Parise at his age gets us into the playoffs not just 2-3 years but 8-10 if we stay smart.

He's one of the RARE guys I'd do it for, and young, and THAT GOOD.

If we were talking a 28 year old Doug Weight a dozen years ago I say no, but Zach is different. The plan isn't the playoffs THIS season, it's the playoffs EVERY year. He might keep us from signing Moulson - but he's astronomically better than Moulson.

Now what of the guys to replace them? I'm hoping by then we can trade players for other players by then. Snow's gotta be on chapter four by now. By 2016, he should finish GM'ing for Dummies.


Just my $.018 (Canadian)

Would I do Parise for our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks? Yes. But not for multiple first round picks. Not worth it at this stage. He is a great player, no doubt. But he's not Crosby and he's not Ovechkin.
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OlTimeHockey
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Snowman,May 19 2011
11:52 AM
OlTimeHockey,May 18 2011
10:43 PM
Parise at his age gets us into the playoffs not just 2-3 years but 8-10 if we stay smart.

He's one of the RARE guys I'd do it for, and young, and THAT GOOD.

If we were talking a 28 year old Doug Weight a dozen years ago I say no, but Zach is different. The plan isn't the playoffs THIS season, it's the playoffs EVERY year. He might keep us from signing Moulson - but he's astronomically better than Moulson.

Now what of the guys to replace them? I'm hoping by then we can trade players for other players by then. Snow's gotta be on chapter four by now. By 2016, he should finish GM'ing for Dummies.


Just my $.018 (Canadian)

Would I do Parise for our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks? Yes. But not for multiple first round picks. Not worth it at this stage. He is a great player, no doubt. But he's not Crosby and he's not Ovechkin.

What if he's JUST above that?

Our first round picks if it works would be a 20th, a 23rd and a 17th let's say....it it worth it them to risk a top three winger in the NHL for an Okposo, Bergenheim and maybe a nice one like Cal DeHaan?

He'll be 27 and on Tavares wing for years. One top line in the NHL beats three (well placed?) shots in the dark in my book.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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Snowy
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Well that's the problem, a late first round pick can be Sean Bergenheim but it could also be Ryan Getzlaf or Mike Richards. You just never know. Obviously, more players miss than hit. But that's universal no matter where you pick in the draft.

Say you give up two or three first round picks for Parise. Say that Parise gets the Isles into the playoffs, but they are still lacking a true top pairing defenseman. You're also losing a tradeable asset in a first round pick. Three years from now we may need to move one of those picks to upgrade elsewhere. It's just too much.
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Kasperitix
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If the Devils are clear that they do not plan on resigning him, why not pitch an offer for his rights? Give up 1 first round pick and go from there...
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Webb20
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Kasperitix,May 19 2011
02:58 PM
If the Devils are clear that they do not plan on resigning him, why not pitch an offer for his rights? Give up 1 first round pick and go from there...

Because then you'd be pitting Garth Snow vs. Lou Lamoriello. Who do you think will get the better deal?
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Kasperitix,May 19 2011
01:58 PM
If the Devils are clear that they do not plan on resigning him, why not pitch an offer for his rights? Give up 1 first round pick and go from there...

If you were Lou Lam, wouldn't you let teams at least think the price will be more than a 1st round pick? Lou Lam can resign Parise to a 6 mill contract right now, they are that far under the cap.

So if you are going to lose parise, why not get 4 #1s from him...rather than a deal with us that nets them less? There is no way Lou Lam deals him for say, 2 #1s and a 2nd and a prospect. He's going to say, "sign the offer sheet and give me my 4 #1s". He'd be a fool to do otherwise. Espeically since doing otherwise would bring Parise back into that arena 4-6 times a year plus playoffs in another jersey???

There is no way he's not in a Devs uniform next season.
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dragoneye
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Snowman,May 20 2011
12:52 AM
OlTimeHockey,May 18 2011
10:43 PM
Parise at his age gets us into the playoffs not just 2-3 years but 8-10 if we stay smart.

He's one of the RARE guys I'd do it for, and young, and THAT GOOD.

If we were talking a 28 year old Doug Weight a dozen years ago I say no, but Zach is different. The plan isn't the playoffs THIS season, it's the playoffs EVERY year. He might keep us from signing Moulson - but he's astronomically better than Moulson.

Now what of the guys to replace them? I'm hoping by then we can trade players for other players by then. Snow's gotta be on chapter four by now. By 2016, he should finish GM'ing for Dummies.


Just my $.018 (Canadian)

Would I do Parise for our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks? Yes. But not for multiple first round picks. Not worth it at this stage. He is a great player, no doubt. But he's not Crosby and he's not Ovechkin.

I agree. Four firsts is too much, but the 7.5 million tier with compensation of a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick seems lopsided for any team that signs him.

Amount


Compensation Due

$994,433 or below

None


Over $994,433 to $1,506,716

3rd round pick


Over $1,506,716 to $3,013,434

2nd round pick



Over $3,013,434 to $4,520,150

1st and 3rd round pick



Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867

1st, 2nd, and 3rd round pick



Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584

Two 1st's, one 2nd, one 3rd round pick



Over $7,533,584

Four 1st round picks
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3POTI
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well if parise is really good friends with okposo then he would sign for one year, then become ufa the following year, and then he can sign with us..seems pretty easy. :yes:
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Snowy
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Dragoneye, I'd give consideration to the two 1st round picks. Never the four.
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Webb20
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are those figures, base+bonuses or just base salary? That could be a big factor. You could still get him his 8 million and not give up 4 1sts.
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Webb20,May 20 2011
07:07 AM
are those figures, base+bonuses or just base salary? That could be a big factor. You could still get him his 8 million and not give up 4 1sts.

I think that the RFA offer sheet must be salary based and not incentive based for that very reason.

Lets face it...if we are going to give him a 5 mill base with 3 mill in possible bonuses, the Devs would match it anyway. No way they lose Parise to a 5 mill or even 6 mill base deal. The only way the Devs let him walk is if the compensation is 4 #1s
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THEDRIVE4FIVE
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3POTI,May 19 2011
05:22 PM
well if parise is really good friends with okposo then he would sign for one year, then become ufa the following year, and then he can sign with us..seems pretty easy. :yes:

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