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John Tavares - #91; Named 14th Captain in NYI History
Topic Started: Dec 9 2010, 08:45 PM (28,307 Views)
Man in the Box
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The Godfather of Online Hockey
Is it me or is this kid going backwards? The fact he has no one to play with is killing his development and making picking him 1st overall a tremendous waste.. Still skates like his skates are filled with lead.. can not beat a d-man and brings nothing to the table but rebound goals lucky bounces... its almost not fair for him and i bet duchene is counting his blessings he was picked 2nd overall and not first...
HELLO BROOKLYN, MY NAME IS JOHN TAVARES
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LEDZEP
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The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
a waste of a number 1 pick :disgraced:
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
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Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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Bexlyspeed
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bexlyspeed- 3rd round draft pick
you try to prosper in an organization like this. crosby, stamkos and the lot of them would have had the same problems.

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LEDZEP
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The Best That Ever Skated 80-81-82-83
Bexlyspeed,Dec 9 2010
09:35 PM
you try to prosper in an organization like this. crosby, stamkos and the lot of them would have had the same problems.

crosby, stamkos know how to skate
Sometimes I grow so tired, but I know I've got one thing I got to do... Posted Image

What puckhead says is Islander law
Posted Image
Come in with the milk

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one,
must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."

Ronald Reagan
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THEDRIVE4FIVE
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The Kid
Duchene looks really good right now :crying2:
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Go Grabs Go!
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Webb20
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Godfather
He'd be far more successful if playing with players who could get the puck to the net.
I sold it all, retired and moved to Fabulous Las Vegas!
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Ben Franklin
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."-Ronald Reagan
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bumpkin
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1st line
Webb20,Dec 9 2010
10:55 PM
He'd be far more successful if playing with players who could get the puck to the net.

And someone who could carry the puck in without dumping it. He needs space, has none.
Where in the World is Sebastian Collberg?
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BritBlueNOrange
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LEDZEP,Dec 9 2010
09:46 PM
Bexlyspeed,Dec 9 2010
09:35 PM
you try to prosper in an organization like this. crosby, stamkos and the lot of them would have had the same problems.

crosby, stamkos know how to skate

Stamkos scores most from the circles after being fed by a multitude of exellent players in Tampa Bay...

Skating hasn't been needed for him to score hardly any of his goals.
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MIAMIEXISLE
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HOCKEY GOON
I'm really alarmed at the lack of effort that he has shown over the last few games. He shyes away from any physical contact, gives up the puck way too easily and avoids high traffic areas like the plaque. In my opinion his play has regressed from last season. They sent down Bailey for similar isuues, maybe they should do the same with JT.
Rick DiPietro- Retiring?Nothing like that has even crossed my mind. I know I can play..
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OlTimeHockey
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BritBlueNOrange,Dec 10 2010
11:51 AM
LEDZEP,Dec 9 2010
09:46 PM
Bexlyspeed,Dec 9 2010
09:35 PM
you try to prosper in an organization like this. crosby, stamkos and the lot of them would have had the same problems.

crosby, stamkos know how to skate

Stamkos scores most from the circles after being fed by a multitude of exellent players in Tampa Bay...

Skating hasn't been needed for him to score hardly any of his goals.

Skating is great to have, but talent and hockey sense beat skating 100% of the time. Tavares can succeed and thrive in the NHL but we have a multitude of people crying over his skating being only above average. (not Zep.....he was joking)

A good player holds the puck and moves in, setting the tempo and controlling the zone. A crappy player skates in and pulls a Bergenheim. Well, fans want more Bergenheims, apparently I'm reading everywhere.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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IslandersWin86
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OlTimeHockey,Dec 10 2010
02:11 PM
BritBlueNOrange,Dec 10 2010
11:51 AM
LEDZEP,Dec 9 2010
09:46 PM
Bexlyspeed,Dec 9 2010
09:35 PM
you try to prosper in an organization like this. crosby, stamkos and the lot of them would have had the same problems.

crosby, stamkos know how to skate

Stamkos scores most from the circles after being fed by a multitude of exellent players in Tampa Bay...

Skating hasn't been needed for him to score hardly any of his goals.

Skating is great to have, but talent and hockey sense beat skating 100% of the time. Tavares can succeed and thrive in the NHL but we have a multitude of people crying over his skating being only above average. (not Zep.....he was joking)

A good player holds the puck and moves in, setting the tempo and controlling the zone. A crappy player skates in and pulls a Bergenheim. Well, fans want more Bergenheims, apparently I'm reading everywhere.

Although I agree with all your points, and I don't know if you meant it how I'm taking it, but you don't necessarily "need" to control the puck to be a good player. Puck carrying and controlling through traffic isn't John's style of play. He's much more of an in tight playmaker, not a carrier. He's good at making tic tac to plays in tight. Moulson is an in-tight finisher. He cleans up the garbage. Tavares finds Moulson on the crease all the time. We need someone who's able to skate the puck in, and get it to the front of the net to let those two work in tight more often.
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rifleman22
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I would take Stamkos for Tavares stright up right now.

In fact I'd take Stamkos for Tavares and any other four guys on the ice last night (your choice) in a second.

Skating and shooting matter and Stamkos has it all. Tavares is slow, awkward and while he is only in his second season, I expected much more. I know, he has no players around him, but first overall picks carry teams or at least they carry their own weight. He has done neither.

And sorry, but 10 game goaless droughts are not acceptable. He was invisible last night until he had a wide open net in a 2-1 game and FANNED on it.

I hope like hell he is the real deal, I really do. But he sure doesn't look anything like it so far or right now.
THE RIFLE

Sometimes you're the windshield,
sometimes you're the bug.
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OlTimeHockey
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rifleman22,Dec 10 2010
02:35 PM
I would take Stamkos for Tavares stright up right now.

In fact I'd take Stamkos for Tavares and any other four guys on the ice last night (your choice) in a second.

Skating and shooting matter and Stamkos has it all. Tavares is slow, awkward and while he is only in his second season, I expected much more. I know, he has no players around him, but first overall picks carry teams or at least they carry their own weight. He has done neither.

And sorry, but 10 game goaless droughts are not acceptable. He was invisible last night until he had a wide open net in a 2-1 game and FANNED on it.

I hope like hell he is the real deal, I really do. But he sure doesn't look anything like it so far or right now.

Hey, I take Stamkos as well. But my point is with talent on the roster, Tavares is producing far more and we have control of the offensive zone, we have Tavares freer to move and get open and we have the ability to spread out and drive the net.

Hard to do that when you have a giveaway every shift.

If we had someone worth being an NHL first liner with Tavares and Moulson, we have a dynamic line. Simple as that. If that were the case, we're debating if you wanted Yzerman or Lafontaine. (I hate to say I would prefer Yzerman, who would essentially be Stamkos in this debate).

But if you think we need skating like Gartner in every player, I say we can have positioning like Gretzky (not a great skater) work well with a dynamic skater like Messier.

Tavares and Moulson need a pro who has wheels and will both do much, much better, even if they themselves are not speedsters like Bergy or Papineau.

And as much as I defend every player on our team :disgraced: I will say young players saddled in this environment have every excuse to not produce. The deck has been stacked against them in every sense.

How nice would it be if Tavares had an ABC's coach teaching and demanding ALL ASPECTS of the game rather than Gordon's myopic system to work off of? Now, with every unsuccessful shift of go-go hockey, he has a year and a half of knowing that if the offense doesn't produce, he's failed. Arbour would have had him contributing in all three zones and I say his confidence would have been fine even with this stretch.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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stevedepot
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rifleman22,Dec 10 2010
02:35 PM
I would take Stamkos for Tavares stright up right now.

In fact I'd take Stamkos for Tavares and any other four guys on the ice last night (your choice) in a second.

Skating and shooting matter and Stamkos has it all. Tavares is slow, awkward and while he is only in his second season, I expected much more. I know, he has no players around him, but first overall picks carry teams or at least they carry their own weight. He has done neither.

And sorry, but 10 game goaless droughts are not acceptable. He was invisible last night until he had a wide open net in a 2-1 game and FANNED on it.

I hope like hell he is the real deal, I really do. But he sure doesn't look anything like it so far or right now.

I wouldn't sound the alarm, he's far from a bust in his 2nd year.
I cannot state this enough....

The wear and tear of Tavares getting bumped and knocked because he doesn't have
anyone on his line who's a threat to take pressure off him plays a huge role.

He didn't need a healthy Okposo on his line, he needed what Stamkos had his first year.

The collective leadership and ESTABLISHED NHL talent to play and learn from like
Ryan Malone, Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis and Mark Recchi.

Had we landed or traded for a 2nd tier free agent scoring right winger to play with Tavares,
he wouldn't be stared at by his inexperienced wingers each time he gets the puck.
:dontknow:
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rifleman22
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Disagree. A first overall pick has got to show more in their second year, regardless of who they're playing with. My point is simple, using this current cast of clowns he is surrounded by as an excuse is just that- an excuse.

Let me phrase it differently.

Same team as we have right now. Stamkos (last year so its fair) instead of Tavares (this year). Who has more goals? Stamkos. Period. By a lot. More assist? Stamkos, again, by a lot.

Would it translate into wins? Well, THERE is where the team could be used as a reason. But points, assists, goals, drive, ambition AND possibly making the crap around him BETTER? Stamkos. In a friggin' second.
THE RIFLE

Sometimes you're the windshield,
sometimes you're the bug.
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OlTimeHockey
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rifleman22,Dec 10 2010
03:02 PM
Disagree. A first overall pick has got to show more in their second year, regardless of who they're playing with. My point is simple, using this current cast of clowns he is surrounded by as an excuse is just that- an excuse.

Let me phrase it differently.

Same team as we have right now. Stamkos (last year so its fair) instead of Tavares (this year). Who has more goals? Stamkos. Period. By a lot. More assist? Stamkos, again, by a lot.

Would it translate into wins? Well, THERE is where the team could be used as a reason. But points, assists, goals, drive, ambition AND possibly making the crap around him BETTER? Stamkos. In a friggin' second.

Really?

When do you think the emotions and environment and players around you contribute to your internal engine, helping you succeed or fail?

Have you ever seen a kid leave a team and thrive elsewhere? Or a player struggle when put in a lousy situation via trade?

This kid is not as bad as you think but may end up scarred by this horrible losing environment.

Stamkos would surely look different (but still probably better than Tavares) if drafted by us and developed under Gorton. He would not be the scoring dynamo he's turning out to be in all likelihood without a solid veteran presence and professional organization up top helping him to develop.

It's not right to blame the player to diminish the team's culpability. If Tavares was a Wing from day one, I dare say he's being heralded as the next Great one by this hour.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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stevedepot
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rifleman22,Dec 10 2010
03:02 PM
Disagree. A first overall pick has got to show more in their second year, regardless of who they're playing with. My point is simple, using this current cast of clowns he is surrounded by as an excuse is just that- an excuse.

Let me phrase it differently.

Same team as we have right now. Stamkos (last year so its fair) instead of Tavares (this year). Who has more goals? Stamkos. Period. By a lot. More assist? Stamkos, again, by a lot.

Would it translate into wins? Well, THERE is where the team could be used as a reason. But points, assists, goals, drive, ambition AND possibly making the crap around him BETTER? Stamkos. In a friggin' second.

Stamkos is playing on a team and a line with guys stanley cup rings and guys who can burn you with the puck.

tavares is not. Stamkos is better than Tavares, that's not the argument.

Stamkos has the luxury (and has had it) of playing with established NHL talent
where he's not looked at to lead.

Tavares is on a line with Moulson and Parenteau.

:lol:
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sybo
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silly to single this KID out when this team is on pace to be the worst in franchise history. Isn't he still like 19 years old? Supporting cast matters...it's a team game...end of story. The kid has excelled everywhere he has played...so look at this team, coach, supporting cast and there is your answer.

Is Kovalchuck a shitty player too? ...because his numbers are dirt this year too....and the Devils are just as bad as we are....almost.

Not to worry, when he completes his entry level deal and moves off to another team...you'll get to see him flourish



...besides...the sophomore slump is no mere superstition
Garth Snow circa 2006:
Quote:
 
but how can you not be excited about DiPietro…Robert Nilsson…Ryan O'Marra…Petteri Nokelainen…Jeremy Colliton…Kyle Okposo…Blake Comeau…Sean Bergenheim…Chris Campoli…and so many others.
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Mulefan
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He is not a good defensive player at all. Offensively he obviously has skills but he is riding solo on this team. Put him on a line with a couple of above average forwards and he would be an automatic 40 goal scorer. I think they should make him a winger for sure though. With his skating and defensive liabilities I don't see him playing center at this level.

With all that said, he has got to bury chances like the one he got just before the DP debacle. If he doesn't bury those kind of chances he is useless. Personally I would send him down with Bailey and rescue him from this horror before they screw up his development completely!!!
Pete
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OlTimeHockey
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Mulefan,Dec 10 2010
03:26 PM
He is not a good defensive player at all. Offensively he obviously has skills but he is riding solo on this team. Put him on a line with a couple of above average forwards and he would be an automatic 40 goal scorer. I think they should make him a winger for sure though. With his skating and defensive liabilities I don't see him playing center at this level.

With all that said, he has got to bury chances like the one he got just before the DP debacle. If he doesn't bury those kind of chances he is useless. Personally I would send him down with Bailey and rescue him from this horror before they screw up his development completely!!!

And I'd agree. Send a few down who are young and need saving, bring up vets, get a new coach installed (AND GM!) and right the ship while we rescue the kids spirits.

A good coach gets Tavares to relearn defense and play all three zones. A good coach gets lines together to maximize talent. A good GM makes this possible.

Want to put him on wing? Great. Give him the support and he can learn, over time, to be an NHL center.

I think the whole point is.....you have to put in place the basis for success to see it come to fruition. Meanwhile, you have to protect the kids' psyches for their long term benefit.
"clearly it's Rick DiPietro's stupidity that's put the islanders in this situation getting into an altercation when a game was over..." Keith Jones on VS

"But the Coliseum became a repository for all the team's troubles, a convenient scapegoat. There were suggestions that no major free agent ever would set foot in such a decrepit place. We have two words for anyone making that argument: Fenway Park. History says free agents would play in an old boxcar if they got enough money and had a chance to win." - Mark Herrmann

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