web
analytics
It Will Always Be Yours
Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Add Reply
Season 7 in review; Our thoughts about the season as a whole - plotlines, actors, and so on
Topic Started: Aug 28 2017, 08:22 PM (4,938 Views)
Currawong
Tent Pitcher
Now that the dust - or should that be ice ;) - is slowly settling on Episode 7, I thought I would start a thread for people to stand back, take a few deep breaths (and another mouthful of wine), and make comments on the season as a whole.

Three things stood out for me:-

1. The faster pace. I loved it. :) We were on a roller coaster of emotions at times, but at least Dany is no longer meandering around in Essos being boring, and therefore Things Happened. We had the buildup of the first three seasons, we've had the plateau with lots of undulating ups and downs in Seasons 4,5 and most of 6, but now we are definitely heading full steam ahead towards the Finish. This acceleration probably came as a shock to some people who'd become accustomed to the more leisurely pace of previous seasons, but we couldn't just continue in that way. The showrunners had made it perfectly clear that they had an end in sight, and that they weren't going to linger and drag things out. So it's a case of buckle up your seatbelts, and enjoy the ride.

2. Set-ups. Despite various concerns expressed about D&D's writing, Ep 7 made it obvious that many things have been very carefully set up, either in earlier episodes of S7 or even in previous seasons. I know some people like things to be made obvious, so that you can almost join the numbered dots, and indeed, some aspects were. But for me, good writing also allows for some aspects to be established by subtle glimpses, by implication of what is / isn't shown, by 'reverse psychology' of emphasising things to the extent that you wonder if it is being overdone and is therefore misdirection, and so on. I think Season 7 gave us all of these, because the writers don't just rely on one tactic.

I also believe that Season 7 needs to be seen 'with' Season 8, and that maybe we should think about them as two halves of a 13 episode final season. I know some people have concerns about aspects of Season 7 being incomplete, but should we perhaps be looking at the gap between Seasons 7 and 8 as more of an interval between two halves of a movie, rather than being two quite separate seasons?

3. Quality of acting.
* The 'big' actors in Lena, Nik and Peter, all brought their A games to this season, and it was definitely a great one for Nik. Jaime's internal struggles have been superbly acted, and the man who rode north was definitely the man that Jaime wanted to be, not the man anyone else - apart from Brienne! - wanted. Lena continued her descent into power-hungry craziness, and I find SHow Cersei to be a much more enjoyable and even believable character than book Cersei. It was good to see Peter finally get some better scenes, and when any of those three are acting together, the results are always good. I also think that Sophie has improved dramatically and has managed to show us the change from idealistic little Sansa in Season 1 to the worldy, more ruthless and politically savvy person in Season 7.

* The secondary actors. IMHO, if there is one supporting actor who deserves an Emmy for Season 7, it was Rory McCann as The Hound. He nailed every scene he was in, and his combination of internal torment, fears, doubts and cynicism, and external snarkish humour was just superb. I loved his little vignette with Brienne; both of them were perfectly in character, and said so much with very little dialogue and subtle acting. Liam Cunningham as Davos - also invariably excellent in whatever we saw him in, though under-used for much of the season. Same with Gwen as Brienne and Conleth Hill as Varys, though when given their chances, each of them totally delivered. Olenna, Thoros, Beric, Bronn, Jorah, Pod, even LF and his sleaze - truly, GOT is blessed with real quality in its supporting roles.

* Alas, I wasn't nearly so impressed with Kit and Emilia. Both are very much better when in a scene with a 'good' actor, but for me their scenes together fell completely flat, and this was possibly my biggest problem with the season as a whole. I think it was made worse because of the contrast with the many strong supporting actors, and even though I know that Emilia was doing green-screen acting for that scene where Viserion is shot down, it just didn't work. Where was the shock and anguish at the loss of one of her children? Unfortunately, the overall GOT story clearly requires the hot young couple of J/D to get together, at least temporarily, but on what we have seen from both of them as individuals across 7 seasons, and then in S7 as a romantic pair, this could be a real problem for Season 8. I dont think it was the rushed pacing for J/D, I just think there aren't the acting skills required (as yet).

So, once the emotional reactions to the events of episode 7 have settled, come and discuss your thoughts about the season as a whole.
Edited by Currawong, Aug 28 2017, 08:42 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
Violet
Cock Merchant
I have five favorite moments this season:

1) The Fields of Fire battle. I am not an action person. If there’s a battle scene or chase scene, my mind will check out less than 20 seconds in. There has to be something clever about it – something that shows the pursuer or pursuee using their brain and making good or bad decisions. Then it matters. If not, then, to me, all I care about is the outcome. That’s how my brain is wired.

But this battle mattered. It was all about perspective and carnage and impact and cost and damage. Visually, it was stunning. And it had something to say – about the physical and emotional cost of war.

2) Cersei and Tyrion have it out. I don’t watch this show for dragons. Or CGI. I’m here for Jaime, Brienne, the political intrigue, and the Lannister family dynamics. And while other re-pairings this scene were given short shrift in the dialogue department, this scene didn’t disappoint. Finally someone mentions Myrcella and Tommen. Finally they talk of family and what they both want and what’s important to them. It was masterfully executed by Peter and Lena.

3) Tyrion and Varys. A well thought out and well played scene. From the gimmick that keeps us alert in Varys taking the wine (such a better mental distraction than naked people and moans) to the wonderful delivery of their lines.

4) Jaime’s moment of victory. I love that music, the uplifting swelling of the Rains of Castamere. The camera fixated on his walk through, so we know it’s all Jaime’s credit. Just absolutely loved that brief moment of victory.

5) Olenna’s final moment of revenge. Diana Rigg, I’m going to miss you. Can one of the spin offs please be of Olenna and Tywin as roommates in hell?

Honorable mentions: 1) Brienne and Arya spar; 2) The side eye stare down Brienne’s grab of Jaime and attempt to get talk with him; 3) Qyborn’s eyes lighting up at the wight’s arm.

My five least favorite moments this season:

1) Sam and the shit montage. Not clever. Not entertaining.

2) The season opener. The show runners said that Arya posing as Walder Frey and killing all the adult men the Frey house was so good that they had to bump it to cold opening. For me, it was a letdown. We already had a wonderful moment where Arya got her revenge on Walder Frey. Why do we care about the nameless dolts who he spawned? Regardless of whether they were taken down or not, there is still a Frey army, so it didn’t even serve all that great of a plot point. They were in disarray whether 28-year-old Marlon Frey led them or 17-year-old Jerome Frey led them. Or 28-year-old LaToya Frey. My point is there are a lot of Freys, even if you get rid of the 18-49 male demographic. It was a cheap gimmick, and I dare say, in decades to come, time will be more on my side on this than the show runners.

3) The entire Sansa/Arya storyline. It fell flat. It was a long, long con game on the viewer, and it felt very forced and very deliberately obtuse. I loved to hate Littlefinger with the heat of 10,000 suns and wanted to be gleeful at his comeuppance. But all he did this year was sulk around corners, and try to manipulate two sisters to go against each other. Sadly, he went out with a whimper and not a bang.

4) Dany’s silent 5-minute walk through of Dragonstone. Was I really supposed to be waiting for this moment all along? Here’s the thing. If you’re not a Dany fan, that scene plays interminably long and has absolutely no purpose. We get it, she’s there. SHE doesn’t even seem to appreciate it. Why should we?

5) Yara and Ellara’s hook up. I disliked that short moment for one reason, and one reason only. Just a day or few days before Yara bore witness to Tyrion accused Ellara of killing an innocent girl. Ellara smirked in pride. I know the show runners conveniently didn’t let that resonate, and it was considered just an issue between Tyrion and Ellara. But it was the murder of a 15-year-old girl. Ellara is proud of that. And for Yara to still want to hook up with her with that hanging out there is repugnant. It’s bad writing more than anything, but I’m not going to let it slide on those grounds. Do better, show.

Overall, I thought this season showed signs of wear and tear. Usual stalwart actors floundered a bit. Lena relied too often on a clinched teeth tic and Maisie, who I think can be absolutely amazing at times, seemed lost all season. Peter had a couple great moments. Liam was solid, as always, even when his character seemed to go almost into creepy uncle mode with Missandei. And Nikolaj was fantastic with his facial expressions, but they hardly gave him any good material to chew on.

The dialogue writing was the weakest I’ve seen since the “bad pussy” that was Season 5.

No matter what, though, Fields of Fire episode is easily one of my top 5 of all season. Interestingly, it was the shortest episode. But it was the best contoured around a single theme. It had decent, though not stellar, dialogue. But the drama, the build up, and the final moments it captured were amazing. Some of the best television I’ve ever seen.

Series, not season, in the last paragraph above. But my computer is a bit wonky with editing right now.
Edited by Violet, Aug 30 2017, 05:37 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
Currawong
Tent Pitcher
Violet
Aug 30 2017, 05:33 PM
I loved to hate Littlefinger with the heat of 10,000 suns and wanted to be gleeful at his comeuppance. But all he did this year was sulk around corners, and try to manipulate two sisters to go against each other. Sadly, he went out with a whimper and not a bang.
Oh, I definitely disagree about that! It was perfect TS Eliot, The Hollow Men:)
"This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."


LF started as a nobody. But for seven seasons has climbed the ladder, sleazed and sneaked and betrayed his way through life, set up enmity between Houses, traded people and things, tried to orchestrate wars and deep family rifts - and now he is reduced to grovelling and begging. He didn't deserve a "big"death, he deserved exactly what he got, and he died in just the mean, miserable, snivelling way you would expect from a creep like him.
offline profile quote Top
 
Violet
Cock Merchant
My further overview on Season 7.

I would say, despite the teaser of the 3 character of Jon, Dany, and Cersei, the show broke down its focus to the follow three: 1) Sansa; 2) Daenerys; and 3) Jaime. The first two storylines were weak because of both the characters and their portrayers, but the third worked brilliantly (but I'm biased, I know).

I think Jon wound up serving as a prop to Daenerys, and I think that Cersei actually was a catalyst, and thus a prop, for Jaime. Cersei may have been the queen, but this was a story about Jaime coming out from under her.
offline profile quote Top
 
ballade
Member Avatar
Mutton Cutter
Jaime seems like the character who had the most development this season, in that he actually had a very discernible arc from despair to determination - he spends this season questioning who he is, and in the finale he decides: he is the Oathkeeper for whom Brienne named the sword he gave her.

A lot of the other characters are kind of static: Jon is ... still honorable, still into fighting the dead, but what actual development does he have besides becoming Dany's lover (in a completely forced and unpalatable way)? Bran is super-mysterious but not really changing? I would say Arya changes a little bit - she goes from completely feral to reuniting with her "pack" but on her own terms. And Sansa, I guess becomes the apotheosis of what Cersei and Littlefinger taught her (even though it seems like that wasn't always the plan and she was really planning to kill Arya - to actually BE Cersei with the whole sibling killing thing.) And Dany, I don't know, man, I guess she is supposedly learning to be a better Queen by putting the greater good over her own personal ambitions (though I rather thought that was part of the point of Meereen too?) but still I'm not sure about that. Will she be able to renounce her claim to the IT for Jon? Or will she see that as a treason for love? *undecided*

Cersei just kept on being Cersei for this season, the only difference is that Jaime has finally seen what she really is.
offline profile quote Top
 
BluHamster
Member Avatar
Almost a Knight
Violet
Aug 31 2017, 10:19 AM
My further overview on Season 7.

I would say, despite the teaser of the 3 character of Jon, Dany, and Cersei, the show broke down its focus to the follow three: 1) Sansa; 2) Daenerys; and 3) Jaime. The first two storylines were weak because of both the characters and their portrayers, but the third worked brilliantly (but I'm biased, I know).

I think Jon wound up serving as a prop to Daenerys, and I think that Cersei actually was a catalyst, and thus a prop, for Jaime. Cersei may have been the queen, but this was a story about Jaime coming out from under her.
Yeah. I think that the overall theme was that of the relationship between a leader and their right-hand advisor.

Jon & Sansa; which also breaks down to Jon & Davos and Sansa & Littlefinger.
Daenerys & Tyrion
Cersei & Jaime; Jaime & Bronn

They were all different: Jon sustained his good relationship with Davos; Sansa killed Littlefinger because he was not trustworthy; Bronn keeps coming back to Jaime because he knows Jaime is trustworthy; Tyrion didn't give up on Daenerys; and Jaime gave up on Cersei.
Edited by BluHamster, Aug 31 2017, 02:27 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
Her Royal Nonsense
Member Avatar
Hodor
My thoughts on this season are probably going to make a few people face palm, but these are my thoughts and I have them. :)

1. I don't remember where I read it, but someone has described this season as a chess game where there are pieces moved around but without a check mate. I fully agree. The plot seemed very underwhelming for me. I hold steady to my belief that there was no reason for Drogon not to target the Red Keep and end it for Cersei other than to just keep Lena Headey around. It kind of reminded me of Frodo not taking the eagles to Mount Doom. Like, I know there were reasons. But I feel the main reason could have possibly been that it'd shorten the plot a tad. I loved GoT's prior seasons because I felt it never had these glaring plot holes before, but this season just didn't sit well with me in this regard.

2. Goes along with the first point but some of the drama felt manufactured. The whole Arya/Sansa thing grated on me. Why isn't Sansa telling Arya what she went through? Why is Arya threatening to carve up Sansa's face? Why not, oh I don't know, talk to each other about it first? I mean, they did eventually, but I would have much preferred seeing them bond rather than seeing them want to kill each other over Littlefinger shenanigans.

3. I have a soft spot for Dany, which probably makes me a minority around here but I can't help it. I feel she does her best and gets unfairly maligned from time to time. She's young and so it's only natural she would struggle with leadership, but she's wise enough to try to surround herself with people who will keep her in check and who are also intelligent and resourceful. At the same time, I didn't get the whole upset over the Tarly thing. She gave them a choice and they refused. She then was ready to let them go to the wall and they refused. Not sure what she was supposed to do? I also cringed a bit when people would get on her/Emilia Clarke for her reaction to Viserion's death, because I don't think it's fair to criticize someone for how they grieve. Yes, face-palm, I can't help it!

4. I'm now 100% sure this story is really about climate change. Jon is Al Gore, and he was really supposed to be the rightful heir of the free world but get's usurped by someone with a lesser claim. And climate change has been coming but the general populace is hard pressed to believe in something they don't see until it's literally infront of their face. And even then, money and power will still corrupt people into willfully ignoring it (or contributing to it). Yup.

5. I guess I should talk about what I liked. I liked Olenna and Littlefinger's death scenes. I liked the loot train battle. I liked the dragon pit scene in itself. I thought undead Viserion looked cool. I liked Arya and Arienne's kerfuffle and wish they had something else together. i thought Nik/Lena/Peter did an amazing job with the private scenes they had with another. I liked scenes. Not plots. Sadly. :(

6. Not the Jaime/Brienne reunion I had hoped for, but I'm also not sure where else they could have gone with that. Cersei was watching him like a hawk. We know he cares about her, and so he couldn't risk Cersei seeing something she doesn't like and therefore having reason to target Brienne. It didn't make me any less hopeful for some good scenes next season though. And Jaime finally leaving Cersei was probably my favourite thing to happen this season. :D

7. I was kind of torn about the timeline for fighting the Night King's army. On one hand, I really wanted us just to get onto it, because it infuriated me that we're trying to catch a wight for Cersei instead of being done with her and moving on. Yet on the other, I fricken' hate zombies.
offline profile quote Top
 
Jenoftarth
Hodor
Her Royal Nonsense
Aug 31 2017, 08:48 PM

1. I don't remember where I read it, but someone has described this season as a chess game where there are pieces moved around but without a check mate. I fully agree. The plot seemed very underwhelming for me. I hold steady to my belief that there was no reason for Drogon not to target the Red Keep and end it for Cersei other than to just keep Lena Headey around. It kind of reminded me of Frodo not taking the eagles to Mount Doom. Like, I know there were reasons. But I feel the main reason could have possibly been that it'd shorten the plot a tad. I loved GoT's prior seasons because I felt it never had these glaring plot holes before, but this season just didn't sit well with me in this regard.


2. Goes along with the first point but some of the drama felt manufactured. The whole Arya/Sansa thing grated on me. Why isn't Sansa telling Arya what she went through? Why is Arya threatening to carve up Sansa's face? Why not, oh I don't know, talk to each other about it first? I mean, they did eventually, but I would have much preferred seeing them bond rather than seeing them want to kill each other over Littlefinger shenanigans.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but especially your first two points:

1. Yes! I have a feeling that Cersei might even die in TWOW pretty early on. I don't think she's going to be the Queen. She's a great actress, but man, I would have rather seen Jaime's story than hers, assuming I'm right. The whole wight hunt-dragon pit thing really seemed like a forced situation to right the ship and get back on story, not a real thing that GRRM would write.

2. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The one scene where Littlefinger died was about 1/5 as satisfying as the scenes where Arya and Sansa were fighting were annoying. I want some more sisterhood on the show, not fighting. It reminded me of when Osha and Meera were fighting for no reason when they got along fine in the books.

Edited by Jenoftarth, Sep 1 2017, 12:32 AM.
offline profile quote Top
 
Mikki
Member Avatar
ChillLord
I have thoughts, but I feel like it's too soon after the finale to assemble them coherently.

But...what I'm toying with in my brain about Jaime is that he is now at the place we thought he would be at the end of S6. That's where the frustration comes in. His arc this season was fantastic. His scenes, incredible. Everything.

At the end of Feast, he is working through being over with Cersei. Then, we get Dance, which gives him one tiny chapter, but in that chapter, he goes off with Brienne.

With the show, they took that 'getting over Cersei' and had him do it in Cersei's presence, and with a kick in the pants from Brienne. Now we have him going off after Brienne, but the rest of the plot seems to have accelerated around him.

This only convinces me that we get next to nothing on Jaime and Brienne in Winds.
offline profile quote Top
 
zuzu's petals
Dragon Charger
Mikki
 
Quote:
 
This only convinces me that we get next to nothing on Jaime and Brienne in Winds.

Yeah... what happened this season is definitely something along the lines of what I suspected for Winds/A Dream of Spring. The necessity of getting Brienne to bond with Sandor reinforces this idea even more. If everyone ends up at Winterfell at the beginning of next season, what I think must happen is a J/B who are hiding out at Quiet Isle where they encounter Sandor off-screen. Once Sansa publicly comes out of hiding and takes over Winterfell with Baelish and Jon basically puts up the alarm/call to fight against the undead, I suspect that Jaime and Brienne make their way to Winterfell with Sandor, and that he's basically their "in" with her, if that makes sense. I have no real way of knowing this aside from GRRM's tricky writing style, but I do think significant things probably happen on Quiet Isle, but we hear about it in retrospective, piece by piece, probably from Jaime's PoV. Who knows, but I think this makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Counter to opinion here, I don't think Cersei dies at the beginning of TWoW. At all. I don't think they've propped up Cersei just because and just because they like Lena. They've given her a "starring role" because she's in the story, affecting the story in various ways right up until the very end.

Her Royal Nonsense
 
1. I don't remember where I read it, but someone has described this season as a chess game where there are pieces moved around but without a check mate. I fully agree. The plot seemed very underwhelming for me. I hold steady to my belief that there was no reason for Drogon not to target the Red Keep and end it for Cersei other than to just keep Lena Headey around. It kind of reminded me of Frodo not taking the eagles to Mount Doom. Like, I know there were reasons. But I feel the main reason could have possibly been that it'd shorten the plot a tad. I loved GoT's prior seasons because I felt it never had these glaring plot holes before, but this season just didn't sit well with me in this regard.

100% agree with this assessment. I was talking to my husband and he was saying that the problem was that this season we got a lot of the obvious. The major one that they built towards was the positively nothing reveal about Jon after they did such a stellar job last season. Like... we all pretty much knew that Jon was the "heir" to the Iron Throne? It's fine if that was A reveal they wanted to highlight this season, but they were clearly moving around way more interesting pieces in the background and then just kind of... left it. There's other stuff going on, more reveals that lie ahead that they seeded very well this season, and then they just kind of ended on the most anticlimactic note. Maybe it's because they think the final season will be better for saving these reveals for then, but I think they needed to tilt their hand a bit more, show their cards so to speak. For instance, if there's something with the greyscale, suggest just *slightly* more that there's something with the greyscale ("But zuzu, what if there's nothing with the greysc-" THERE'S SOMETHING WITH THE GREYSCALE). I think structuring the season in this manner has left a lot for the final season, but made this season go out with a whimper.

I literally had no problems with the story until the very, very end. Even so, it's not the story itself, or the writing, or the acting. It's the structure.

online profile quote Top
 
ballade
Member Avatar
Mutton Cutter
If Jaime or Brienne (or J/B together) aren't in WoW, that is two HUGE books (DwD and WoW) in which they will play next to no role, which in turn seems highly unlikely to me if their being a couple is important to the ending of the series (which I surmise from the show not cutting that part out.) I'm also sure that GRRM isn't going to resolve the Lady Stoneheart situation that has gone on since Feast and which has such a direct bearing on Jaime and Brienne "offpage" while they hang around on the Quiet Isle.

In fact, I don't think the change in the sequence of their storylines is an indicator that they don't have a role to play in WoW; on the contrary I think it's that the show scrapped the two big storylines that Jaime and Brienne do have a role in: Lady Stoneheart, as noted above, and Sansa Stark's getting out of the Vale. Obviously, none of Sansa's Season 5 storyline and most of her Season 6 one (I do think she will have some role with the Knights of the Vale) is anything like her book storyline. She doesn't marry Ramsay, she doesn't escape with Theon, etc. But that doesn't mean she will not be present in the next book!

I think J/B and probably Sandor become a part of Sansa's arc which may also connect to Arya's. Arya has very strong ties to the Riverlands in the books through her wild dreams and warning of Nymeria which the show completely eliminated.

The show has taken a different path not just with J/B but with other big characters too; Ellaria doesn't murder Doran or Trystane, I think Arianne will ally Dorne to Aegon, there is much more going on at the Citadel with Jaquen/Pate than just Sam curing Greyscale, the Ironborn are reviving in the Reach, Loras is at Dragonstone not under arrest in KL ... there are a lot of storylines that were completely changed on the show that need still to be resolved in the books. The show kept the most important beats (in this case, Jaime leaves Cersei for Brienne) but that doesn't mean the books (IF they ever are finished which I hugely doubt) will just not deal with those storylines at all.

If I'm wrong and there's no J/B in WoW, well, at least I'll have a show ending!

Given all the differences, I don't think we can extrapolate too much about what people will be doing in the books; the parameters aren't the same. Now whether we will ever find out is, of course, somewhat questionable!!
Edited by ballade, Sep 1 2017, 05:08 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
BluHamster
Member Avatar
Almost a Knight
zuzu's petals
Sep 1 2017, 02:24 PM
I literally had no problems with the story until the very, very end. Even so, it's not the story itself, or the writing, or the acting. It's the structure.
This is pretty much my feeling too. Great stuff, but it is like getting halfway though a book and not being able to read the second part for a year and a half, so I am grumpy because I can't keep reading, not because it was bad.

On the other hand, I am glad we got this season now rather than having to wait three years for the whole thing. Scale was important this season and I don't think it would have been as good with less time spent on filming and post-production. I think the dragons are very important to the story and I am glad they were given time to look amazing and be full characters. (Excluding after Viserion's death. I think the dragons should have been in mourning or something, same with Daenerys) Also, the loot train was probably our big "fire" battle, so I'm glad it got time and attention too. Episode 4 is in my top 3 of the entire series.

Also, I will admit that the main reason I wanted Jaime and Brienne to officially be together in season 7 was so that we could get an official photoshoot with Jaime and Brienne standing together. Of course that Vanity Fair photoshoot happened is S4, so all hope isn't lost.
Edited by BluHamster, Sep 1 2017, 04:19 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
QueenBri
Maiden Saver
Mikki
Sep 1 2017, 10:01 AM
But...what I'm toying with in my brain about Jaime is that he is now at the place we thought he would be at the end of S6. That's where the frustration comes in. His arc this season was fantastic. His scenes, incredible. Everything.

At the end of Feast, he is working through being over with Cersei. Then, we get Dance, which gives him one tiny chapter, but in that chapter, he goes off with Brienne.

With the show, they took that 'getting over Cersei' and had him do it in Cersei's presence, and with a kick in the pants from Brienne. Now we have him going off after Brienne, but the rest of the plot seems to have accelerated around him.
As much as we've seen some of Nik's best work in S7, the drama surrounding his arc really was manufactured. The Sept Kaboom should have been the catalyst to make him break free from Cersei. It certainly would have been the most organic way to let him go, but instead we got yet more repetition of this carrot and stick manoeuvre from his sister to keep him in check and it got plain boring. I can accept that Jaime's a slow learner, but I still can't shake the feeling that they had to make him a complete and utter moron to remain in her orbit, and worse than that, to be as enthralled with her as he appeared to be in ep. 3. I'm not convinced that they couldn't have found another way for him to become aware of the WW threat, even without the LSH plot and if he couldn't meet up with Brienne until the finale. I'm not even sure Cersei was served by keeping Jaime around. Can you imagine a season where she and Euron were raising hell together?

I think the fact the entire season hinged around the dragon pit was a massive mistake, not least of all because it was underwhelming. More than that, for it to come to pass, they had to force Jaime to still be glued to Cersei and make Tyrion and Varys worse strategists than Jon. When the plot starts driving the characters, rather than vice versa, you've really run into problems.

I still have no clue what to make of the mess in the Northern story line. Just like Jaime with Cersei, they had to sort of regress Sansa so that there was tension between her, Arya and Littlefinger, yet at the end of S6 she KNEW she couldn't trust the man who sold her to the Boltons. They basically spent this season spinning their wheels so that Jon could hook up with Dany, and everybody could baulk at them getting it on next season shortly before the shit hits the fan with the WWs. The Jon 'reveal' in itself was really clumsy. Gilly noticing that 'Ragger' got an annulment and remarried would have been enough. Dusting off Viserys' wig to actually see the wedding was overkill.

I so wanted to be more positive about things than this, but the pacing was horrible as they tried to figure out what to do with certain characters, and raced ahead with others.
offline profile quote Top
 
zuzu's petals
Dragon Charger
Quote:
 
As much as we've seen some of Nik's best work in S7, the drama surrounding his arc really was manufactured. The Sept Kaboom should have been the catalyst to make him break free from Cersei. It certainly would have been the most organic way to let him go, but instead we got yet more repetition of this carrot and stick manoeuvre from his sister to keep him in check and it got plain boring. I can accept that Jaime's a slow learner, but I still can't shake the feeling that they had to make him a complete and utter moron to remain in her orbit, and worse than that, to be as enthralled with her as he appeared to be in ep. 3. I'm not convinced that they couldn't have found another way for him to become aware of the WW threat, even without the LSH plot and if he couldn't meet up with Brienne until the finale. I'm not even sure Cersei was served by keeping Jaime around. Can you imagine a season where she and Euron were raising hell together?

This is going to sound incredibly naive of me, but I STILL just can't shake the feeling that Jaime doesn't know the *whole* truth about all the things that have gone on in his absence. Either they've had him directly avoid addressing the things that Cersei has done specifically (seriously, has he ever mentioned the words Lancel, sept, etc... why has everyone that has talked to Jaime about Cersei used such vague terms: High Sparrow: "She repented for her sin" (Lancel), "I've heard what she does to those who defy her" (Randyll, about the sept), "She's done things I was incapable of imagining" (Olenna) ) because we're just supposed to understand that he's filed them away in some dark part of his brain to ignore (the most likely explanation), or they actually want him to fully address it - or make the actual realizations - during the final season. Either option is clumsy.

I think someone else on here said that Jaime was the one character this season who had the strongest semblance of a complete arc this season, so that was great to see.
online profile quote Top
 
QueenBri
Maiden Saver
zuzu's petals
Sep 1 2017, 05:12 PM
This is going to sound incredibly naive of me, but I STILL just can't shake the feeling that Jaime doesn't know the *whole* truth about all the things that have gone on in his absence. Either they've had him directly avoid addressing the things that Cersei has done specifically (seriously, has he ever mentioned the words Lancel, sept, etc... why has everyone that has talked to Jaime about Cersei used such vague terms: High Sparrow: "She repented for her sin" (Lancel), "I've heard what she does to those who defy her" (Randyll, about the sept), "She's done things I was incapable of imagining" (Olenna) ) because we're just supposed to understand that he's filed them away in some dark part of his brain to ignore (the most likely explanation), or they actually want him to fully address it - or make the actual realizations - during the final season. Either option is clumsy.

I think someone else on here said that Jaime was the one character this season who had the strongest semblance of a complete arc this season, so that was great to see.
I mean, I'd hope that he either doesn't know fully what went on, or that they're saving it all up to address it again in S8, but I'm far less optimistic than you are, Zuzu. I think they pushed the abused spouse angle so heavily precisely because they needed justification for him to gloss over what happened with Lancel, Tommen etc. At this point, I believe his further disillusionment with Cersei next season is going to stem from her doing something horrific to Brienne to punish him through her, i.e. sending the Mountain after her, OR getting Euron to attack Tarth and kill Selwyn. Maybe that might be the thing for him to realise how awful she's been all along, but I'm not sure. I'm not convinced that they will touch on her infidelity, or even her letting Tommen commit suicide in any detail ever again.
offline profile quote Top
 
Currawong
Tent Pitcher
Putting aside my J/B shipper hat, I have been asking myself: What could Show Jaime have done, and where could he have gone, at the end of Season 6? Suppose he did discover what Cersei had done and decided to walk out on her at that stage, where would he have gone?

Show Jaime is not Lord of Casterly Rock. He renounced all his titles and inheritances when he joined the KG, and although we saw Show Tommen dismiss him as LC of the KG, we did not see Tommen reinstate him as lord of Casterly Rock. Jaime's only formal position is as commander of the royal army, essentially the Lannister army as it is Queen Cersei Lannister on the throne. So where does Jaime go if he walks out? I think it's important to remember two other things the show has simplified from the books: it has omitted all the powerful Western Houses, even making their leaders sound like military idiots, and it has also not given us anything of the sense we get in the books that these men and houses all have a personal respect for Jaime Lannister, and would be likely to follow Jaime the man, regardless of his titles. There is just No Way a jumped up sellsword like Bronn would ever, ever have been put in command over Book people and Houses like Adam Marbrand or the Crakehalls!! I accept that simplifying things like most of the subsidiary houses in the Reach, the West and even the Stormlands has been necessary for the show, but it has led to a few problems, one of which is "where could Jaime have gone if he had walked out on Cersei at the start of season 7?"

Suppose Jaime had walked out on Cersei in Ep 1 of Season 7 and taken himself back to CR, how would that have dovetailed with all the other plotlines? S6 ended with Dany and Team Fire heading for Westeros, so even if Jaime did walk out on Cersei in S7Ep1, what would he have done when he heard that Dany and her forces had invaded Westeros? Sit there comfortably in CR and say "not my problem"? You'd have to think that the Jaime who slew Aerys rather than let him burn the people of KL would have immediately prepared to repel the invasion, and probably marched himself plus a good number of forces back to KL regardless of his feud with Cersei. Because although Jaime has shown huge family loyalty, he is also loyal to, and feels a duty towards, the ordinary people of Westeros. The end result would have been the same - Jaime + most of the Lannister army back in KL, preparing to deal with Dany and her dragons. And it could well have looked even worse for Jaime's own character, because that type of story would have had him walk out on Cersei because of her actions, yet within an episode or two, return to her and try to help repel the invaders. (Imagine what the J/C shippers would have made of that!!) Cersei would have belittled him even more and possibly made him swear loyalty to her personally ... and Jaime would have looked even more like her lackey. IMHO, having Jaime stay in KL during S7 despite whatever he has found out about Cersei's actions, and try to moderate her excesses as well as defend Westeros, makes much more sense in terms of 'who' Jaime is than having him walk out and then return.

Structural problems with S7 seem to me to relate more to the other storylines, in particular developments north of the Wall, and Dany's invasion. We really have no idea where / when George is going in terms of Dany's invasion, or what he is going to write with respect to the threat by the NK and WWs. Given his style of writing, by the end of TWOW he may probably still be making snow gardens like Sansa at the Eyrie instead of progressing the parallel invasions by Team Fire and Ice Army! :D Even if a Magnificent Seven don't go on their crazy wight hunting expedition, will TWOW provide for the NW to capture one or more wights in order to show the real nature of the threat that they are facing? ETA: alas, the few advance extracts he has given us from TWOW don't fill me with any great enthusiasm or confidence about the book, whether or not it includes J/B :(

Given the verbose and convoluted writing of AFFC/ADWD, I find it hard to get any real sense of where George is going with all the separate plotlines, and I have the impression that the showrunners have listened carefully to everything he has told them, asked lots of questions, made copious notes - and decided that overall they had to simpify/ combine / omit various storylines, play on the most important beats of the books, and then just cut to the chase in Seasons 7 and 8. Dany has spent 6 seasons watching her dragons grow, and getting herself and an army together; the NK and Ice army have similarly spent that time massing and becoming a real threat. "Something" had to be done by the end of Season 6 and then in Season 7 to start bringing the disparate elements and character arcs together to lead us up to the final resolution in Season 8.

Structurally, I also started to think about scenes that have (apparently) been omitted from Season 7, and others that we may like to have seen to flesh things out more, because I wondered whether adding those scenes would have given us the equivalent of an entire extra episode. Possibly, but then I also asked myself where that episode could have fitted, and in particular, what could have been the appropriate end point / plot 'beat' for such an episode. It's not just the general content of an episode that matters, it's also haing it end in a manner that makes dramatic and emotional sense. And looking at the overall plot of Season 7, I am not sure where and how they could have fitted in an entire extra episode, because I am not sure that there were any other 'big' plot points from the season that could have functioned properly to end an episode.

*sigh* Clearly, I am not cut out to be a screenwriter!!
Edited by Currawong, Sep 2 2017, 04:41 AM.
offline profile quote Top
 
Entropic Girl Reporter
Member Avatar
Tent Pitcher
I suppose what I expected was not so much him walking out, but that they'd allow Nik to play growing doubt, growing unease. The sense that he was the dog in the burning room in that comic panel saying, "This is fine."

Season could've gone down just like it did, but then when he finally left it wouldn't have seemed so much like they were just having him mark time until the plot was ready for him to leave.
offline profile quote Top
 
Currawong
Tent Pitcher
What sort of thing would you have liked to include EGR? Maybe a scene where he challenged Cersei about what really happened in the Sept or to Tommen? Or perhaps a short scene with 'Counsellor Bronn' about what she had done and why he was staying on? Those are probably the only two things I could think of, and I know a lot of people would have liked something along either of those lines. We could have omitted the boring Greyworm/Missandei sex and had a Jaime/Bronn pithy comment scene instead! :D

I thought Nik portrayed the subtleties of his doubts very well. And we had little things that showed he was not 100% Cersei, such as his decision to respect Olenna and offer her a quick death by poison rather than bring her back to KL to face Cersei's ideas of vengeance. But if Jaime had argued with Cersei at an earlier stage, how would it have impacted on the finality of his walkout scene? Despite her bravado it was clear to me that she simply couldn't believe that Jaime would dare to leave her: if she'd had advance notice that he was wavering, would she have reacted differently? I thought she probably sensed he was unhappy about various matters, and that her pregnancy (possibly fake) was designed to ensure that he stayed with her despite those doubts. The pregnancy of course is its own issue, because they have written it as being relevant in some way to Tyrion's arc as well as Jaime. The wait for Season 8 is going to be a very long gestation period, LOL.
Edited by Currawong, Sep 2 2017, 05:05 AM.
offline profile quote Top
 
Mikki
Member Avatar
ChillLord
Jon's etchings/the Dragonstone cave paintings.

Posted Image

Figure on the left has an odd line on his right arm, like would be if he had a golden hand, and is carrying his sword in the left.

Jaime is one of the three who will fight the NK. CONFIRMED.

I just wanted to share this.
Edited by Mikki, Sep 3 2017, 07:14 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
dreadwulf
Ser Cleos
I'm pretty insistent that Jaime has to be involved with slaying the Night's King, because irony. He'll be remembered for slaying a king, but not the one he's known for at the start of the series.

As far as how else they could have worked out Jaime's arc, I think they could have made the current approach work if they had just been a little less opaque about his motivations. If just once they could have mentioned, for example, that it's not like he has anywhere else to go because every other faction wants to hang him, or that every time he leaves Cersei to her own devices something terrible happens, or that he's so adamantly opposed to Danaerys after what he saw of her father that Cersei is a lesser evil by comparison. For example! Give us SOMETHING. Instead they wanted to keep the viewers in doubt about him to have another Finale twist. But I've already gone on about this at length on my tumblr.
Edited by dreadwulf, Sep 3 2017, 07:03 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
tamjlee
Bath Steamer
Yeah, I agree that the show couldn't really have Jaime leave Cersei the way he did in the finale at the end of season 6 or the beginning of this season because they weren't ready for him as he had nowhere else to go.He couldnt join Brienne in the north yet, too busy dealing with the newly arrived Starks and Sansa ruling, Jaime being there would be a complication not needed as the great War hasn't started.And even though as a shipper watching him and Brienne together would be enjoyable, it would be just another holding pattern for them until the plot catches up.Also the way they did extreme travel, it wouldn't make sense for him to be meandering through the river lands, like they can in the books.So as much as I dislike waiting for my ship to go canon, I do understand why a visual medium that requires action in their plot can't work the same way as the books where major characters can dissappear and go on a journey of self discovery.

But still there could have been a little more done this season to satisfy Jaime fans and lead non-Jaime fans away from the old standard beliefs about Jaime being just another bad Lannister.However, I think the show wants people to be on the fence about Jaime as long as possible and therefore they didn't go there.I was mostly satisfied with Jaime''s arc with a few exceptions.I would've liked a little more outward questioning but I did see a performance from Nik that showed a Jaime who felt trapped, but I'm in tuned to.Jaime; I'm not sure the general public got that.I also would've loved the smallest of scenes in the finale that showed Jaime''s unguarded reaction to Brienne; that would've been my icing on his leaving Cersei cake to help me enjoy this hiatus.In the end my disappointment for this season comes more from the other storylines and not Jaime''s.

I really needed Brienne to do a bit more but I get she just isn't a priority.Sometimes I get bitter that Tormund was given a chance to mention her and not Jaime but that might have been on purpose to again keep her off the general audiences radar.I still get annoyed with the show and their forced twists and drama or them not recognizing that there are other ways to dramatize tension than secret's and conflict.Yes, I'm talking aboUT Sansa/Arya.....There were so many ways they could have shown drama with these girls who have been through major trauma without falling on immature, petty and old sibling rivalry.It was cheap and gimmicky and although I'm grateful that in the end they played LF, the audience would have been just as satisfied if they shown the girls working together from the get go.This kind of "gotcha " writing is just annoying when it seems all they have.

I don't have much to say about Jon and Dany because I just don't care.I get that they are probably meant to go canon in the books (they are ice and fire), I know the emotive acting of the leads have much to be desired but judging from the general audience, the show mostly hit the mark with them and it's only the fans who want more substance who werent satisfied.

In the end I wish the show took some more risks "deaths".I really wanted the wight demo to be uncontrolled.I hoped that the soldier had led him out early, he killed some extras and maybe even someone in the dragon pit or at least had more chaos and risk.I really wanted to see some of those fighters present to start fighting, to see who steps up immediately (Brienne/Jaime, Hound) and who they choose to protect.I had visions of Jaime saving Tyrion or vice versa.

I also thought the wight hunt was super dumb but I get the show had an end goal and it wasn't to get Jaime to leave KL; it was to sacrifice a dragon to the NK.Im sure there could've been another way to do it, but whatever I guess the end justifies it because the dragon got the wall down.

The writing quality of the show is its weakest point in terms of dialogue, plotting and character development but the production quality of this show is still superb and I'm still entertained and satisfied more than I'm not.
offline profile quote Top
 
Currawong
Tent Pitcher
tamjlee
 
I still get annoyed with the show and their forced twists and drama or them not recognizing that there are other ways to dramatize tension than secret's and conflict.Yes, I'm talking aboUT Sansa/Arya.....There were so many ways they could have shown drama with these girls who have been through major trauma without falling on immature, petty and old sibling rivalry.It was cheap and gimmicky and although I'm grateful that in the end they played LF, the audience would have been just as satisfied if they shown the girls working together from the get go.This kind of "gotcha " writing is just annoying when it seems all they have.
I have been wondering about that decision too tamjlee. Showing a scene or two about sibling re-bonding would have been satisfying regarding the Starks, but did it fit with what we all knew about LF? Thinking of LFs tactics throughout the series, all his informants and so on, I recall that little glimpse we saw of LF talking to an unidentified servant girl, and apparently giving /exchanging something with her. "What" was he doing with that girl? What was she telling him or giving to him? That little glimpse was put there for a good reason, especially when we know they have apparently cut other scenes from episodes, and the only reason that makes sense to me is to emphasise to viewers that even in the Starks' home of WInterfell, walls have ears and that no conversations are necessarily safe. However, it may have been too subtle for most viewers. We also the scene where Sansa sends Brienne to KL: Sansa insists she is safe with loyal peple but Brienne reminds her that LF could well have been talking to the lords behind Sansa's back. LF was clearly planning to create a rift between Sansa and Jon, but the return of Arya and Bran gave him extra food for thought. He watched that scene with Brienne and Arya, and we saw the result of that, with his planting of the note from Sansa about Ned. So I am wondering how they could have hinted at the possibility of the Stark kids working together to bring LF down, without making it too 'join the numbered dots' obvious and spoiling the trial and execution in ep 7.

I think they only needed one other very brief scene to drop that hint, while maintaining the outward fiction of sibling rivalry. Maybe they could have had one of the girls talking to Bran as they pushed his chair, asking perhaps what he could see and what he knew of LF. We would not hear Brans's reply, but the fact that he was involved would lead in to his being at the trial and sitting there to provide evidence. Another possibly neater way would be Brienne and Arya sparring again: as they lock swords once or twice, Brienne quietly warns her. Something like "don't trust Lord Baelish" and Arya replies "don't worry, WE don't" or "none of us do". Brienne nods approvingly and replies "Good. Be on your guard." No one could overhear that, and even if LF was watching, there would have been nothing to alert him. Besides giving us a bit more Brienne :) it would have fitted perfectly with Brienne's concerns to protect both girls, and also her own suspicions about LF. Either scene would have lasted only a minute or so, but perhaps laid the groundwork more clearly.
Edited by Currawong, Sep 3 2017, 11:53 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
tamjlee
Bath Steamer
Re:Sansa and Arya for me,I suspected Arya was purposefully playing the game LF set up from the get go because I just couldn't buy someone as well trained in lies and stealth as Arya is to be such an easy mark.I figured the girls were working together immediately and I loved it originally.Where the storyline lost me was in the direction it was taking that one of the sisters would cause the death of the other.The playing up that Arya was just as dangerous to her family members over childhood jealousies or that Sansa would go to the extreme of executing her sister on a seed planted by LF.That was when I was most tense about the show and if D&D went there, actually went to a place where one sister killed the other because of LF and let's face it for water cooler shock value.Idk if I could continue watching.I think they could have kept the tension just with Arya thinking that Sansa was power hungry and trying to steal Jon's throne and Sansa was worried that Arya was truly mad, lost to her trauma.Like I could see them having a conflict that was misguided and on assumptions but still based in love.Arya's love for Jon and Sansa's love for Arya (like instead of calling an execution, Sansa could choose to lock her up, thinking she is mentally ill).I just couldn't buy sibling jealousy resulting in a death.Like I said I'm glad it was a ruse but I found it cheap and it sold the girls short because as mad as they were at each other, as much as they said they "hated" each other as children, I know theres a familial bond that they wouldn't cross and what they both went through and how they matured was so beyond petty jealousies.
offline profile quote Top
 
Twirly
Almost a Beauty
Finally got to see all the episodes in full. I enjoyed the season, far more then I thought I would from the leaks. My main problem though was it all seemed rather pointless, nothing much happened. It just seemed like a filler season where the characters had to spin their wheels while Jon and Dany hooked up.

There were some great moments though, I felt Jaime really got to shine which was brilliant. I loved the dragon pit, was great to have so many characters meet, and I hate the dragons but even I was sad when what'shisname sank into the lake.

A couple of little things that stood out to me. There was so much about people choosing their leader. They really hammered home how it shouldn't be about someone's name and entitlement to rule but about who they are, how they inspire the people to follow them and their actions in actually leading.

I also thought it was very interesting when Sansa and Arya were in the crypts and they were looking at Ned's statue, they said it didn't look like him because everyone who knew him is dead. I really like the scenario a few of you guys have speculated about Brienne the Beauty being remembered as truly beautiful, as those who write the history books won't know otherwise and wondered if this moment could be a hint to that ending.
offline profile quote Top
 
koops
Member Avatar
Not the Valonqar
I don't know if I'm yet at a point where I can have a definite opinion on S7. What I do know is that while on one hand the acting and execution made me enjoy parts of it far more than I thought I would from the leaks, I am yet to get the feeling that this is going to be a season that (other than a few scenes) I'm going to watch again unless I'm doing a full rewatch and it's needed to put the pieces in the right place. I totally agree with the feeling that this is more of a filler season needed to put the pieces in place for the endgame, and that while I don't disagree with the choices they made to get there (for example, I don't think keeping Jaime in KL was a bad move), I also feel like they could have put more substance in the execution and that some of this stuff could have fallen very very flat without someone like Nikolaj as an actor (see Jon and Daenerys' romance, which is probably the blandest thing I've ever seen alongside Padme and Anakin in Star Wars).

And I do feel that there were opportunities for meatier character development that were wasted mostly because of the need D&D had to keep the "shockers". Arya and Sansa's arguments that seemed rather absurd and contrived only to reveal that they were framing LF. Jaime not being written as showing as much disillusion from Cersei as he could have in order to preserve the shock of the breakup at the end. Jon and Dany's tension over bending the knee was solved way too cheesily and quickly in that episode 6 that, IMO, was one of the worst of the series. I don't think this "ruined" the characters, and most of the general audience seems to have appreciated Jaime a lot this season, in particular, but I do think they could have made a much more solid product with a few adjustments here and there.
Edited by koops, Sep 10 2017, 09:29 AM.
offline profile quote Top
 
QueenBri
Maiden Saver
With notable exceptions for certain scenes, and the whole battle in The Spoils of War, I'm still thoroughly underwhelmed by this season. To me, it often felt like boxes were being ticked in terms of the characters being positioned in a certain way for endgame, rather than they themselves driving the narrative forward. The general impression I got was that D&D are just exhausted by the whole process now, and they're doing what they have to do to pull all the threads together. I can't say I blame them, but I'm just a little sad that some of the finesse has disappeared in the drive to finish things.

I think they well and truly wrote themselves into a corner with both Sansa and Jaime this season. In both cases, the 'slow learner' thing felt so, so contrived, and was absolutely the product of them not quite knowing what to do with them whilst other pieces on the board were moved into place, namely Dany and Jon. It resulted in a frankly baffling Northern storyline that relied not only on Sansa seemingly forgetting what she'd already told Jon about Littlefinger being untrustworthy, but him also being somewhat lacklustre in terms of his usual scheming, and Arya being downright annoying. Likewise, Jaime was being held prisoner in KL by a certain plot point: the need for Cersei to fall pregnant with a legacy affirming child so that there's pay off in S8 after he's long gone, and she loses the thing she holds dear which is her grip on power through that baby. If not for that, I'm not actually convinced that they couldn't have done something else with Jaime that took him away from the capital. Hell, off the top of my head, they could have killed two birds with one stone and had him and Arya encountering each other in the Riverlands.

In comparison with the whole build up to the Sept Kaboom in 'The Winds of Winter', the dragon pit scenes didn't have a fraction of the impact either. In my mind, that's a big part of the reason why this season felt a bit flat. Everything revolved around getting these people to meet in the finale, and perhaps that was a cooler idea on paper than it was in reality? I've really wondered if the season not working for me was a product of me reading spoilers as well, but my spoiler averse friend didn't care for it either. Maybe with a bit more distance, I might like it considerably more someday.
offline profile quote Top
 
koops
Member Avatar
Not the Valonqar
Yeah, and the fact that they wanted to cut seasons down to 7 and 6 episodes doesn't help the feeling that they want to wrap things up ASAP and they might not care as much about how as they used to, anymore. Which is a bit scary since a bad ending an retrospectively damage what was widely considered one of the best series ever. I hope that S8 will be to S7 what S6 was to S5. S6 ended up being one of my favorites while S5 seemed mostly filler to put certain pieces in place. I also agree that while I adore the finale for finally having had Jaime leave, the S6 finale was far superior, IMO, and I feel like its impact was lost quite substantially in the KL plot of S7.

offline profile quote Top
 
december13
Member Avatar
Loyalty Fucker
The problem I have with the season is... wrong placement of episodes? In terms of writing and progress they are in order, of course. In a sense of impact (and even entertainment) "Spoils of War" was superior by far! And I'm not speaking that as a Jaime fan...
If that was the ep. to end the season with (if we had more seasons than just 8 or more ep. in total) I think people would go bonkers. Sure, it would be "is Jon Snow really dead" all over, but here we would actually be all freaked out; because JS in books is alive, while Jaime is "missing".
offline profile quote Top
 
ballade
Member Avatar
Mutton Cutter
Yeah, I think the Field of Fire battle was much more beautifully filmed and emotionally involving than the stupid wight hunt. And maybe that was the problem: the wight hunt just didn't make sense if you thought about it for, like, 10 seconds. WHY was it important (for anyone but Tyrion, who doesn't want Jaime to die) to convince Cersei to fight alongside them? Why didn't Dany just target the Red Keep? Did Tyrion even mention wildfire as a reason not to bring dragon fire to KL because things will blow up that weren't supposed to, because that motivation would have made some sense? Convincing Cersei? Nah! She's in a terribly weak position.

The whole wight hunt seemed to me contrived to a) get the NK a dragon; b) get Jaime out of KL for honor's sake. And so the seams in the storytelling really showed.

Now, I love the results (at least the Jaime-related one) and because Jaime had such a big role this season, and NCW was SO good, I have a lot of great feelings about this season.
offline profile quote Top
 
Violet
Cock Merchant
QueenBri
Sep 10 2017, 11:50 AM
With notable exceptions for certain scenes, and the whole battle in The Spoils of War, I'm still thoroughly underwhelmed by this season. To me, it often felt like boxes were being ticked in terms of the characters being positioned in a certain way for endgame, rather than they themselves driving the narrative forward. The general impression I got was that D&D are just exhausted by the whole process now, and they're doing what they have to do to pull all the threads together. I can't say I blame them, but I'm just a little sad that some of the finesse has disappeared in the drive to finish things.

I think they well and truly wrote themselves into a corner with both Sansa and Jaime this season. In both cases, the 'slow learner' thing felt so, so contrived, and was absolutely the product of them not quite knowing what to do with them whilst other pieces on the board were moved into place, namely Dany and Jon. It resulted in a frankly baffling Northern storyline that relied not only on Sansa seemingly forgetting what she'd already told Jon about Littlefinger being untrustworthy, but him also being somewhat lacklustre in terms of his usual scheming, and Arya being downright annoying. Likewise, Jaime was being held prisoner in KL by a certain plot point: the need for Cersei to fall pregnant with a legacy affirming child so that there's pay off in S8 after he's long gone, and she loses the thing she holds dear which is her grip on power through that baby. If not for that, I'm not actually convinced that they couldn't have done something else with Jaime that took him away from the capital. Hell, off the top of my head, they could have killed two birds with one stone and had him and Arya encountering each other in the Riverlands.

In comparison with the whole build up to the Sept Kaboom in 'The Winds of Winter', the dragon pit scenes didn't have a fraction of the impact either. In my mind, that's a big part of the reason why this season felt a bit flat. Everything revolved around getting these people to meet in the finale, and perhaps that was a cooler idea on paper than it was in reality? I've really wondered if the season not working for me was a product of me reading spoilers as well, but my spoiler averse friend didn't care for it either. Maybe with a bit more distance, I might like it considerably more someday.
I agree that I was underwhelmed by the Dragon Pit scene as well. All these characters were gathered together .... to wind up with just that? A whole lotta talking, and a wight coming out of a box.

It felt like the walk of exposition march during the wight hunt all over again. A handful of people having these one off conversations, and everyone else standing around, wasted. Bronn saying loudly to Pod about going to have a drink. The dialogue might as well have been, "Due to contractual obligations, I need to leave."

And what was up with Cersei traveling from the Red Keep to the Dragon Pit, then back to the Red Keep and her conversation with Tyrion there, and then her trudging back to the Dragon Pit? This woman hasn't left the Red Keep since the Walk of Shame. We saw how much danger she would was in back in Season 2 when the mob swirled around them. And yet she walks over to the Dragon Pit, and back again, and back again? We're to imagine all that time taken? And if Cersei as in a carriage or on horseback why get off to walk into the pit. Why make such a weak entrance. Which gets me to ....

the set up of Dany showing off her dragon didn't even work, logistically. Cersei knew Dany hadn't yet arrived back at the Red Keep. She knew Tyrion had. C'mon now, what's a self-respecting diva queen supposed to do? You don't need Mariah or Whitney (RIP) or Aretha to tell you .... you don't show the F up until the other person arrives. Dany's the one without a notification system to tell her when Cersei had arrived. And even if Dany was on the look out for Cersei's caravan, Cersei is just going to wait it out. No one shows up. Period.

But because they wanted Dany to arrive last on Drogon and Cersei fake nonchalance, she's supposed to note that Dany hasn't arrived yet, still go over, and then express annoyance when Dany arrives late. :headwall:

What I mainly think of now when I watch the dragon pit now is how miserable the actors must have been to not have been allowed to wear their sun glasses. There's a lot of squinting going on. And that his is why everyone was wearing hats and bonnets and other head coverings back then. Cause, you know, sun is bright and hats were easier to make than sunglasses.

As to fire bombing the Red Keep, I can see Tyrion advising against it because of the terrifying effect it would have on the commoners. Royal family disliked or not, you see that happening and you wonder if you're next. Having said that, that wasn't the reason Tyrion proffered. And having the Red Keep as a target makes at least as much, if not more, sense than taking over Casterly Rock. The season may have benefited from Dany targeting it, but it, too, being a hollow victory, because Jaime's already considered it and has taken everyone to ground level or below. Or evacuated them entirely to another stronghold in King's Landing.

The Spoils of War episode was amazing television, though. And much of the Queen's Justice and a good portion of Eastwatch was good as well.
Edited by Violet, Sep 10 2017, 01:43 PM.
offline profile quote Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
ZetaBoards gives you all the tools to create a successful discussion community.
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Season 7 · Next Topic »
Add Reply