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What is your favorite Jedi Knight/Dark Forces game
Star Wars Dark Forces 1 (10%)
Star Wars Jedi Knight Dark Forces II 4 (40%)
Star Wars Jedi Knight expansion: Mysteries of the Sith 0 (0%)
Star Wars Jedi Knight II Jedi Outcast 2 (20%)
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy 3 (30%)
Total Votes: 10
Best Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game
Topic Started: Jan 18 2009, 06:03 AM (2,257 Views)
Logan Starr
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What is your favorite of the great game franchise?

My favorite is either Dark Forces II or Jedi Outcast. Mysteries of the Sith was great but not as good as JK 1 and 2. Jedi Academy made you feel like a Jedi and all but plot was stupid.
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Revan 411
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My favorite out of the bunch is Dark Forces 2.

It had great locations, great gameplay, amazing characters. I loved it. The cutscenes were amazingly detailed (Considering there live action) and the Kyle Katern is much more fleshed out in JK1. I find it better then the sequels. I'm hoping that there's a JediKnight 4 game some day... but as long as they do it right (JK1) and not turning it into total disaster. (JK3)

I want to go back and replay JK1 but the torrent I download doesn't seem to work on Vista nor XP. :(
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Logan Starr
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Have you played the expansion, Mysteries of the Sith?

What do you thin kof JK2
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Revan 411
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I never played the expansion pack. And about JK2, I liked it. It was a fun game. The opening was pretty good. The villain was also pretty alright, and the puzzles were fun to figure out.

But JK2 definitely ant as good as the original game.
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Logan Starr
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Then gte Mysteries of the Sith and play.
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LukeDavis93
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jedi academy all the way
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jedimasterfisher
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Jedi Outcast.
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Logan Starr
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LukeDavis93
Jan 18 2009, 03:40 PM
jedi academy all the way

What about the awful plot and all?
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LukeDavis93
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Logan Starr
Jan 18 2009, 10:25 PM
LukeDavis93
Jan 18 2009, 03:40 PM
jedi academy all the way

What about the awful plot and all?

what awful plot
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Revan 411
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The plot is terrible. The characters are uninteresting.

Let's just take a look at JK3 for a minute (or seven)...

First, the characters: Se have your generic, blank slate of a PC, who doesn't say anything other than "yes, Master Katarn" or "only one more...". If it's customization you want, you're out of luck. You can decide what your PC looks like, yes, but it's like stringing decorations on an aluminum pole. Pretty pretty lights don't change the fact that it's an aluminum pole. Then we have our cast of support characters--Kyle, who is his usual self, so no complaints there except there's no Jan, he only shows up in about three levels and a handful of cutscenes, and doesn't do much since he's no longer the PC. There's Rosh, who I'm not going to even bother talking about. Luke is just an annoying Kyle in this game, and then we have our typical vixens Tavion and Alora, who aren't compelling villains because they're just bosses for the levels they appear in. And then we have Chewie and Boba Fett because this game is so pathetic that it has to stoop so low as to include cameos from Original Trilogy characters in order to compensate for the overall disappointment that is the game's "story".

And what is that "story"? Well, I'll get to that, but first let's go over the levels; you're presented with a laundry list of five missions--but you only need to do four, because each one is as pointless as the next, so there's no harm in skipping any. In the first level, you run around, tabbing people with your lightsaber--no need to shoot because all other weapons are worthless--until you get to whatever checkpoints the level has, or until you flip all five switches of the level. Then repeat three more times. There's one slightly different level out of the bunch, in which you ride on a swoop bike or have your lightsaber taken away, that almost makes the others bearable. Almost.

If the repetitive levels don't cancel out the good ones, well, then the absolutely annoying levels do. There are a handful that have invincible enemies that either kill you every five minutes, or just annoy you while you're trying to finish off the level's idiotic objectives. And then there's the prison escape level with the same NPC appearance used for all 16 bloody prisoners, and the idiotic AI that causes them to run towards instantaneous death instead of taking the shorter, nearer path that leads away from it. And of course these levels are really no different than any other; you're still just running around flipping switches or setting off triggers. The only difference is that instead of being invincible, you're killed every five minutes, whether it be with sharp teeth or excruciating annoyance.

Now, after you do all that, you get a set of two or three mandatory, or "plot" levels. These are the ones that actually carry out the game's "story". Yet another group of lightsaber-wielding baddies is roaming the galaxy, sucking up all the residual Force energy in the universe. Your job is to go find out what they're doing, fail to stop them, then report back to your masters. These levels take place on planets that may look familiar, as they've appeared in just about every Star Wars game, book, comic, etc from the past ten years, or they're from the Original Trilogy, just to be there to give the fanboys a few laughs, much like Chewie and Boba. Or they're knockoffs of any of the above. Wait, come to think of it, it's not just the "plot" levels that are like that; every bloody level is like that.

Now, what happens in these levels? Not much. Basically, the same thing that happens in every other level, only it's much longer, and there's a boss at the end. And afterwards, your PC that almost never speaks up babbles something about the Force, and you are promoted, so apparently the plot is progressing. The only good news is that Rosh disappears, but you see him later, of course. Afterwards, you're presented with another five missions, then do a few more plot levels, etc. There's no point to go over the second and third set of missions, because they're really the same. The only difference is that you'll be facing more and more Dark Jedi wannabes.

Like JK2, the lightsaber combat is so flawed that there's no real point in strategizing. You just click away and hope that you kill them before they kill you. Or you can trick them to killing themselves, or in some cases you can run past them without them even noticing you're there. The downside--well, one of the downsides--is that you'll be facing fewer enemies with guns. Because they can't kill you with guns, you can't kill any other Jedi with guns, meaning if you try to avoid using the lightsaber in an effort to increase the so-called "difficulty", you're out of luck. Well, you'll get what you wish; the game will be a lot more difficult, but not in a good way.

In any case, the whole is really just filler. Things only get interesting once you reach the third set of "plot" levels, in which you break into an Imperial facility in order to save Rosh for some reason. He's tried to kill twice you already, but you still want to save him; apparently he's your friend, despite his shortcomings. In a startling turn of events, you're given the choice to either kill him or save him. I'm not sure if it's even possible to execute this any more poorly than it is done in this game. You actually get a message on the screen saying "to kill Rosh, kill him; to save Rosh, put away your saber". Real subtle. This isn't an RPG, so this is the only player choice in the game, other than the choice of Force powers which doesn't really matter, and it's executed so poorly.

They're really copying JK1 and MOTS in this instance. In JK1 the player made a light side/dark side choice at the beginning of the third act, leading to one of two endings. Only in JK1, the choice wasn't made by the player--not all at once, in any case; JK1 had a light/dark meter like KOTOR, which looked at what Force powers the player had chosen, how many civilians they'd killed, etc, placing them on either the light side or dark side. Yes, it took the choice away from the player, but remember that this isn't an RPG, and if they'd given the player a choice, like JK3, well, you'd end up with an idiotic message on the screen telling you what to do. And since JK3 has no plot--other than the "save Rosh or kill Rosh" moment--the rest of the game is rendered pointless; whatever you did up until that point didn't matter. Now, as for MOTS, it had only one ending, in which the player had to disarm in order to beat the game. It's rather anticlimactic combat-wise, but it fits with the rest of the game rather well, and there's no idiotic "put your saber away" message; instead there are a few subtle hints.

Now, as I said, there's no plot other than that moment. The game before that point is worthless, and the game after that point is pretty worthless as well. Yes, you still have to go beat your final boss, Tavion, but as I mentioned earlier, she's not a villain, and there's nothing that drives the player to defeat her other than mission objectives. You don't even see her until you're halfway through the game, other than a few brief appearances in which they intentionally hide her face in a vain attempt at a plot twist. So the next set of "plot" levels is as pointless as the last, and there are barely any guys with guns, and odds are they'll get killed before you reach them, since there's an "epic battle" going on, in which your fellow Jedi are fighting off the rest of the Cultists. If you killed Rosh, you'll have to fight both sides, so that means more hacking and slashing. I'm only pointing this out because the dark side ending isn't half bad, all things considered; but before you get to that you have this monotonous level of hacking, slashing, and jumping, even more so since you fight both sides.

Then you get to the final level. There are a dozen or so Cultists who you can just run past--and you probably should, because fighting them is just a waste of time--and then you get to Tavion. Again due to the shoddy combat system, she's either annoyingly tough, or goes down in one or two hits. You may have to reload a few times. Then if you were goody goody, she she resurrects Marka Ragnos and he possesses her, and you have to fight her again, only this time she's a bit easier because she doesn't have that annoying scepter. If you killed Rosh, she lets you kill her right away, which says to me that if you turn evil, life is easier. Kyle then comes in and tries to stop you. Instead of trying to kill you, he uses some Force-enhanced martial arts moves, which only show up at that one point in the game--a shame, since they look pretty cool, and would give a much-needed boost to saberless enemies.

But in any case, as I was saying, after you beat Tavion in the light side story, Kyle and Luke show up--a bit too late, as usual--and there's an obligatory closing cutscene in which Rosh gets a new hand and Jaden babbles about being born ready or something equally stupid. If you killed Rosh, you'd defeat Kyle, steal a Star Destroyer, and go prepare to conquer the galaxy with the sceptor, a homage to the dark side ending of JK1. Kyle survives, and decides to resign from the Order once again, ashamed because both of his students fell to the dark side and murdered lots of people. The dark side ending, the only good part of the game--other than killing Rosh--is of course non-canon version, a lost opportunity at redemption.

But I'll stop rambling now. All in all, JK3 was a glorified expansion pack for JK2, with an awful--nay, nonexistent--story, and an even worse combat system.

(Rant over. Sorry for the length.)
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Logan Starr
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...OK

JK 1,2 and MOTS story was great but JK3 had a bad story.

Also beleive it or not there is a point 411 forgot to mention. As an act of mercy Kyle spare's Tavion's life in JK2, and now she is back eviler than ever, are they trying to teach that redemption is impossible or something?
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LukeDavis93
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Revan 411
Jan 18 2009, 10:52 PM
The plot is terrible.





I dont think it is! What now!?
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Revan 411
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Well, that's your opinion. But in my opinion, the plot is awful. Simple as that.
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JCarter426
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What plot? :P
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Logan Starr
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JCarter426
Jan 19 2009, 07:38 AM
What plot? :P

The player takes the role of Jaden Korr, a new student arriving at Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy on Yavin IV. Jaden, along with fellow student Rosh Penin, becomes an apprentice to Kyle Katarn, the main protagonist of the series thus far. As an apprentice, the player is dispatched on various peace-keeping missions across the galaxy.

As the game progresses, Jaden encounters the Disciples of Ragnos, a Sith cult who are stealing Force energy from various locations across the galaxy. The player learns that the cult is lead by Tavion, the former apprentice of Kyle's nemesis Desann from Jedi Outcast. Tavion has recovered the Scepter Of Ragnos, which has the power to drain and release Force energy. She plans to restore the Sith to power by using the stolen Force energy to resurrect an ancient Sith Lord, Marka Ragnos.

The story has two different endings, depending on which side of the Force the player chooses. After learning that Rosh has betrayed the Jedi and joined Tavion, the player can choose either killing him and turning to the dark side or letting him live thus staying on the light side.

If the player follows the dark side, Jaden kills Rosh but refuses to join the Sith or help resurrect Marka Ragnos. Jaden kills Tavion to steal the power of the Scepter of Ragnos and, after defeating Kyle in combat, embarks on a campaign of conquest. On the light path, Kyle and Jaden rescue Rosh. Jaden heads to the Tomb of Ragnos to confront Tavion. After besting her in a fight, her body is possessed by Ragnos' ghost. Jaden destroys the Scepter, banishing Ragnos' spirit back into its tomb. After defeating it.
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