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The Force Unleashed 2
Topic Started: Dec 14 2009, 12:08 AM (4,827 Views)
...bman999
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Jedi Youngling
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You know, I can't say that I'm looking forward to this game, and I can't say that I don't still think there's a high chance it'll end up being a money-hoarder, but despite all that, I'm willing to give it a chance. How bad can it be? They already have heard pretty much every gripe that they can hear from past titles. How can they get this one wrong in addition to the others? Maybe it's Slim's trailer (which was awesome) that's having effects on me, but I'm willing to give this game a chance. Oh, how I hope it'll be decent. Just think - we could get an amazing, deep story, or at least a classic adventure that's got more emotion to it than the first game. :)
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein
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HK-47
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Darthslim108
Oct 4 2010, 08:02 PM
For anyone who's actually looking forward to this game, I put together a fan trailer.

Hmm, this was actually edited together quite nicely, though the music was not always on par with what was going on onscreen, however I'll forgive it due to the lack of available material.

I'dd say this actually makes me want to play it more than the official trailers do.
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Master0fDoritos
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Can't wait. The first one was cool. I mean I downright hated the controls and what not but I don't understand the complaining about the story. Chill the f*ck out, it made sense, it was cool, quit b*tchin about it.
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Caboose2012
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Well it is there opinion and they are tired of LA giving us crap for the last few years ,so yeah I'd be pretty angry if my favorite games were just thrown into the dumpster and give me crap.

Oh yeah watch your language there.
"Those who break laws are scum. And those who abandon their friends to follow the law... they're lower than scum!"-Kakashi
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Master0fDoritos
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Caboose2012
Oct 7 2010, 01:14 AM
Well it is there opinion and they are tired of LA giving us crap for the last few years ,so yeah I'd be pretty angry if my favorite games were just thrown into the dumpster and give me crap.

Oh yeah watch your language there.

You've got to be kidding me.... I'll use a cliche.... opinions are like *** holes, every bodies got one. But really now. Fans need to start thinking with their brains instead of their nerd rage.

Yeah LA has given us some bombs so what, TFU was not a bomb. It was actually good (real good), but fans are never pleased.Fans like to think they could have done things better. Bah! They're like over pampered 6 year olds with a bad case of ADD (especially SW fans me being one of them). Fans are never satisfied, and between this and Bungie fans complaining about quite possibly the stupidist stuff :rolleyes: it's starting to get old.

Were all "older" here I didn't think swearing was much of a taboo.
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Caboose2012
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Opinions are going to be posted everywhere and it's what makes us special (I know it's corny deal with it),to tell you the truth I don't want to be exactly the same as everyone else.

We are all older here which means we're mature I was only saying that because would come up and complain about the language.
"Those who break laws are scum. And those who abandon their friends to follow the law... they're lower than scum!"-Kakashi
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Revan 411
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Master0fDoritos
Oct 6 2010, 10:21 PM
You've got to be kidding me.... I'll use a cliche.... opinions are like *** holes, every bodies got one. But really now. Fans need to start thinking with their brains instead of their nerd rage.

Alright then, you want logic? Then I got plenty for you.

First off, I'm not a massive Nerd, who goes on a Nerd range like you stated so. I believe in human flaw, and how our mistakes can help us become better people. But that's not why I'm writing up this post.

I suppose I am a person who likes KotOR, and the original trilogy of Star Wars, but I'm not a LucasArt's fan-boy. They've delivered countless amount of bombs in the past few years, and The Force Unleashed is no exception in this regard. The game was a repetitive clone of The Episode III game adaption, with the exact same combat, (a combat system that's a reminisce of the Hack & Slash genre) the same types of Star Wars cliches you'd fine in almost all of the Expanded Universe materials, and uninteresting, 1 dimensional characters.

Now obviously the combat has been discussed to death already by this point, but I'd like to take a minute (or 10) to talk about the storyline of The Force Unleashed.

Starkiller (his real name is actually Galen Marek) is found randomly on Kashyyyk, who is the son of a Jedi. There's typical Star Wars cliche #1 right there; an infant who is an off-spring of a Force User. After several years, Marek becomes Vader's bit**, and performs various, repetitive tasks for him; which can range from a simple Jedi hunt, to bringing down a gigantic rancor. Marek then soon decides "Hey, I'm going to be good!", and joins up with the opposite side of the Empire. There's typical Star Wars cliche #2 right there; a Force User being redeemed. After "being good", he joins up with a bunch of Revolutionary Leaders, finds out that some members are kidnapped by Vader (That's typical Star Wars cliche #3 by the way; a climax involving kidnapping), and Starkiller realizes that he has to rescue them, and defeat Darth Vader once and for all.

The shocking part? It's when Marek sacrifices himself to allow the kidnapped Rebels to escape, which is basically the only redeeming part of his character. Everything else about him were a bunch of cliches, and 1 dimensional ideas that were made up by LucasArt's untalented writing staff. The man doesn't even have a characteristic personality.

PCs, Protagonists, or if you want to call them "main characters", are suppose to be a character that the audience can relate with. They're the main back-bone of the story, and it's through their eyes that we see the events of what's going on. Take Luke Skywalker for example. He was a lonely farm-boy, that the audience could instantly recognize, and relate with. And he ended up being the hero of the Galaxy by Episode VI, which I thought was a nice touch to his character. His characteristics are also evolved too, with Episode IV portraying him as being a cocky, and whiny farm-boy, to Episode VI portraying him as a wise, and established Jedi Knight.

Want another example? Fine. In Doctor Who, when we first see William Hartnell, we can instantly recognize that he's a cynical, and pessimistic "grandfather" figure. This is evident by how he treats his newly founded companions Barbara Wright, Ian Chesterton, and his grand-daughter; Susan Foreman. As the series progress, so does The Doctor. He evolves from a cynical stranger, to a established Hero, and by the time he regenerated, a hundred Doctor Who fans at the time cried, and were heavily emotionally moved by him leaving. That's one of the things that can happen to the audience if the main character dies, or leaves.

Now, I'm not even going to talk about how foolhardy it was to have Galen Marek being the individual who establishes The Rebel Alliance. To me, I always thought of the Rebellion being a Revolutionary, Pro-Democracy group who was founded right after Palpatine established his power as the Imperial Dictator of the Galaxy by three Senators: Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Padmé Amidala.

So now tell me, does this post look like it was written by a 6 year old? Or is it too sophisticated for your taste?
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Master0fDoritos
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lol


I'm not a massive nerd either but I do go off on nerd rage a lot. And let's be honest if you weren't the slightest bit nerdy you wouldn't give a rat's a**. So don't let words like nerd hurt your feelings :rolleyes:. Stuff it. Second, he is found accidentally on Kashyyyk because Vader was hunting Jedi and it just so happened there was one on Kashyyyk with a son. When Vader discovers him he keeps it a secret from the empire, having plans for the future to use him to over throw Palpatine. OOOOOooOOoHHH very cliche :rolleyes:.

Palpatine finds out eventually and confronts Vader. New plans are made to use him to root out the soon to be rebel alliance and their sympathizers. The rest you should already know. TFU 2 has a very interesting plot twist, there is a new Marek and guess what we don't even know if he is a real person or a clone now. Our perceptions of what happened in TFU are now scrambled. So everything we knew in the first one is quite possibly irrelevant. ZOMG so cliche1!11one!!1!!1!!ONE!11! Ikr?

The whole world's a d*mn cliché.

No, no you don't have to relate with the main character. The main character is the main character regardless of if you 'relate' with him. He is the person who's eyes you see the events through. In this case we see the events through practically a slave of Vader's, who has really known nothing but the force and pain. He does not randomly become good, (some one needs to pay attention) he is sent to infiltrate the rebels and tear them apart from within (supposedly to make way for Vader's eventual take over). However he eventually begins to notice how what he has been doing is, well , wrong. He begins to suspect that he is being used. We all know that he ends up being right.

Stop looking at the small surface things like "clichés" and use your brain. Looking at tiny things like that is thinking with your nerd rage. I never called anyone a nerd by the way. Though I'm sure lot's of us are in some sense of the word. I mean we ARE on a SW forum talking to people online about stuff that isn't physically real.

And yes it does sound like it was written by a six year old. It sounds like it was written by a highly literate 6 year old with a nuclear level nerd rage temper tantrum.... as does mine.... But I wasn't criticizing our intelligence level was I...

Have you ever seen a six year old in a store after his mom doesn't buy him what he wants? It's worse because this six year old doesn't even F'ing know what the hell he really wants. We're just like that, and we never make up our d*mn minds just like a bunch of pampered six year old kids with ADD.

I'm generalizing here, don't get butt hurt.

Less QQ more..... BEOW BEOW :rolleyes:

.....thats the best I could come up with for a lightsaber sound....

About the opinion thing, yeah we all have them, they make us special.. blah blah blah. They're still in the end irrelevant. One of them is right and most of them are wrong. So opinions aren't all that special. By all means post them, just know I'm not going to treat them like beautiful butterflies. I'm going to tear them apart as best I can. Opinions are only there for debating, otherwise they're useless.

That's my 2 cents and what not (cliché.... ikr?)

/beingawesome :rolleyes: <_<

And yeah yeah my posts are 'mean' and 'insult'laden but it's just the way I write and think. I'm cynical. I thinks it's funny, some people don't.

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Tpiom
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Stop attacking each other and focus on the game!
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Master0fDoritos
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I'm not attacking anyone, I'm just having a discussion.

And yeah just noticed the lack of a need for the big wall o' quote I had there.
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Revan 411
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I never said that I was offended by your "nerd" comment. (Heck, I'm sure that we're all "nerds", and "geeks" on this forum). All I was doing was replying to your massive, fan-boy, generalization on how fan-boys are whiners who live in underground basement, when it's your post that has the intelligence of a 6 year written all over it. Hypocrisy much? Probably.

Master0fDoritos
 
When Vader discovers him he keeps it a secret from the empire, having plans for the future to use him to over throw Palpatine. OOOOOooOOoHHH very cliche

And that's basically my point. That's the cliched part right there. Vader randomly finds an infant, who happens to be a descendant of a Force User. This cliched story element has been found all over the Star Wars Expanded Universe, and is also found at the end of Episode III of the Prequel Trilogy.

I want an established, developed character; not some ridiculous Deus Ex Machina twist. And that twist happens two times in the game by the way. The first is at the beginning like I said, and the second twist is found when he stops destroying the Rebel base. Which is essentially another Deus Ex Machina plot twist.

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No, no you don't have to relate with the main character. The main character is the main character regardless of if you 'relate' with him. He is the person who's eyes you see the events through.

No, you don't "have" to relate with the main character. But that doesn't excuse poor characteristic development of the protagonist, or uninteresting 1 dimensional story elements found within him. I would excuse this for Starkiller if The Force Unleashed was an RPG, but the beautiful thing is; it's not.

You "don't" have to write up a character that the audience can relate with, but it helps. The important story aspect of a protagonist, however, is to create an interesting back-story for that protagonist, and have him develop, and evolve as the story goes on. The Force Unleashed had this concept nailed down for Starkiller, but the execution of it was horrible. It's an untalented writing mess, is what it is.

And yes, the world is full of cliches. But the idea is to execute those cliches properly in terms of the appropriate story context they're being used in. Using a cliched element in the unappropriated context is what I'd like to call "poor storytelling". The Force Unleashed is full of it.

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By all means post them, just know I'm not going to treat them like beautiful butterflies. I'm going to tear them apart as best I can. Opinions are only there for debating, otherwise they're useless.

Debating is one thing, showing off your hypocritical, unintelligent attitude is another. If you're going to debate, then at least show some maturity because I'm not sure if I'm going to take this "quote" seriously from you.

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Less QQ more..... BEOW BEOW

And don't think that I'll just ignore your debate posts. I always reply back for a good argument.

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I'm cynical. I thinks it's funny, some people don't.

Yeah, and I'm pessimistic buddy.
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Master0fDoritos
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Pessimism isn't an excuse for idiocy buddy.

Showing off my hypocritical unintelligent attitude :rolleyes: . Touched a nerve huh. Umadbro? I'm sorry I said all nerds lived in an underground basement (most basements are underground by the way)... Don't remember mentioning that but you obviously you do.

Oh boy...

You're being unrealistic and asinine. Intelligence of a six year old. Insulting my intelligence doesn't make your point any less ridiculous.

Point is (and you've proved it quite well) you will not be satisfied regardless. Maybe it's because you're one of those cool pessimistic kids.... dunno... :rolleyes: That's kind of the pessimist's thing ya know. Never being satisfied... Kind of like a 6 year old in a toy isle? No? Hmmph guess not.

You continue to bring up the "Starkiller is one dimensional" arguement. In the beginning he is entirely one dimensional yes. I'm pretty sure if your only 'companion' was a droid that tried to kill you, you would be pretty d*mn bland and one dimensional.

It isn't until later (when he really starts to interact with others and come into contact with the light side) that he gains some depth and meaning as a character. Now that TFU 2 is coming out he'll be an even deeper character, considering all of the questions that arise from the whole ya' know..... not being dead thing.

And yeah I would absolutely LOVE a sw story that doesn't involve a 1 in a million love interest but that's not going to happen. I would just love to have a protagonist that didn't have a clunky funny comic relief droid following him, but that's not going to happen. Just because those gimmicky cliche elements are there it doesn't mean the story is less valid. KOTOR has a good number of those gimmicks and cliche's.

The SW universe works well together as a whole. TFU's plot fits in just fine with the rest of the universe and there is no real reason to complain other than fan boy angst.

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Take Luke Skywalker for example. He was a lonely farm-boy, that the audience could instantly recognize, and relate with. And he ended up being the hero of the Galaxy by Episode VI, which I thought was a nice touch to his character. His characteristics are also evolved too, with Episode IV portraying him as being a cocky, and whiny farm-boy, to Episode VI portraying him as a wise, and established Jedi Knight.


Did it ever occur to you that this is the first time we see Starkiller? Luke didn't change much through out episode IV. You expect Marek's character to evolve (which it does at the end) immediately within the first installment of the series?


How you could disagree is beyond me but I guess I don't posses the 'critical thinking' capabilities that you so obviously do.
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Revan 411
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Master0fDoritos
Oct 7 2010, 11:18 PM
Pessimism isn't an excuse for idiocy buddy.

Neither is "cynicalism".

Master0fDoritos
 
Like I said I was generalizing (I even lumped myself into that generalization).

And that's basically why I replied to your post in the first place. If there's one thing that I hate more then anything else in this world, it's "Generalization". And it can be any type of generalization, such as Racial Generalization, Ethnic Generalization, or any other type of unappropriated Generalization.

Master0fDoritos
 
Point is (and you've proved it quite well) you will not be satisfied regardless. Maybe it's because you're one of those cool pessimistic kids.... dunno... :rolleyes: That's kind of the pessimist's thing ya know. Never being satisfied... Kind of like a 6 year old in a toy isle? No? Hmmph guess not.

I would be satisfied, if the story concept in question was executed properly. That's as simple as I can be. If the concept in question is executed poorly, then obviously I would point that out to certain folks such as you. There have been great concepts in this world that have been executed terribly because the people in charge of the execution just simply don't do a good job on it, and show very little respect for the original concept.

Master0fDoritos
 
Now that TFU 2 is coming out he'll be an even deeper character, considering all of the questions that arise from the whole ya' know..... not being dead thing.

I'd say that the resurrection of him in The Force Unleashed 2 was a mistake on LucasArt's part. His death in the original Force Unleashed game at least gave his character some redeeming value. And now that redeeming value has been destroyed by the utter phrase of "Hey, look at me! I'm back, and I'm a clone!"

No seriously, his unemotional, mono-tone voice gives him less characteristic then a brick.

Not sure how you, of all people, would find that deep and interesting. Especially since you've read 1984 of all things.

Master0fDoritos
 
Just because those gimmicky cliche things are there it doesn't mean the story is bad.

I never said that "cliches" can damage a story. All I said was that using cliches in unappropriated story contexts can damage the story to a certain degree. The opposite is using cliches in appropriate story context.

Master0fDoritos
 
TFU's plot fits in just fine with the rest of the universe and there is no real reason to complain about it

That's personal preference. Some people think it's fine the way it is, others don't. But I'm tired of arguing at this point, so I'll just discard your comment as "fan-boy angst".

Master0fDoritos
 
Did it ever occur to you that this is the first time we see Starkiller? Luke didn't change much through out episode IV. You expect Marek's character to evolve (which it does at the end) immediately within the first installment of the series?

No, I don't expect a super evolved character in the first installment of a trilogy. But what I do expect is a good introduction to the main protagonist, and a good characteristic personality of that protagonist. Luke had both of those when he was first introduced in Episode IV, Marek didn't.
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Darth Varkor
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Revan 411
Oct 8 2010, 04:15 AM
No, I don't expect a super evolved character in the first installment of a trilogy. But what I do expect is a good introduction to the main protagonist, and a good characteristic personality of that protagonist. Luke had both of those when he was first introduced in Episode IV, Marek didn't.

Well im afraid I have to disagree with you there Rev, at the start of TFU Marek (whom I'm presuming is Starkiller?) Is rather ruthless and personality-less :ph43r: As you go through the game he begins to change his perspective on the Galaxy and begins to see the way on the Jedi and life beyond Vader's Apprentice. At the end, he rejects the Dark-Side and holds of Palpatine so the other Rebels can escape. When he has the chance to kill Palpatine there is a very simillar Episode VI with Luke wanting to give into anger and kill Palpatine. Starkiller-Palpatine.


So yeah there's my short opinion on Starkiller; also if you read the novel it goes alot more in-depth to the characters, Starkiller especially with his mental battle between Dark and Light.

As for my opinion of the clichéd story. True yes alot of moments like as Rev said, when Vader finds Starkiller but seriously, it's only a game. Plus it kinda makes sence, a Jedi in hiding as the Jedi are being exterminated, he wants the force to carry on so he has a son, Vader tracks him down, kills him and finds Starkiller big deal. Yeah slightly clichéd there but is it really worth so much fuss? :P

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...bman999
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Just want to add to the discussion that cliches aren't a BIG deal. Sure, they're annoying when they're used too often, but they don't really detract from the main story; they just make it feel slightly less fresh and new. It's the deeper story that people should be worried about making original. If the author has to include a couple of typical bits to move the plot along or further develop a character, there's no problem with that. To put it more simply: while cliches should generally be avoided, there shouldn't be so much effort behind avoiding them that it hurts the story more than helps it. Also, if we keep on avoiding cliches, there won't be any new material left to write with!
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." -Albert Einstein
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