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| Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan; After years of waiting.... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 22 2011, 07:26 PM (3,073 Views) | |
| Kotorfan421 | Nov 12 2011, 07:15 PM Post #16 |
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Bantha Fodder
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Boy. The idea of TOR in general is getting worse and worse by the day IMHO. I don't feel like TOR will even have a very long life span at this point - even if there is a story - why would anyone care if its like this and somehow Revan is still alive? It isn't logical. If I had heard a better story that would be tied in by now, maybe I would be more interested, but this really destroyed a lot of my hopes for TOR in terms of its story. I was on the fence but Ive pretty much decided now to use my money on SR:TT, and probably the new MGS HD collection - I was saving for monthly payments, but something about TOR doesn't feel right to me. I don't know how, but I just don't have interest in the game like I should, and I know it isn't just me, because after thinking about it, a well done Star Wars MMO would be right up my alley. However, it feels to me like something is definitely missing from these trailers as well as the gameplay we've seen so far, even if it isn't much. With me being myself, I simply cant, and wont shell out hard earned cash for something that Ive lost such considerable amounts of hope for in the days moving towards launch. |
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"Another thing that grinds my gears is when I cant find the droids I'm looking for." | |
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| Caboose2012 | Nov 13 2011, 06:38 PM Post #17 |
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Jedi Padawan
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I hear you. Just don't seem interested in this ,they failed to get me interested which is hard to do. I am more interested with Revenge of Revan since the story ACTUALLY MAKES SINCE! |
| "Those who break laws are scum. And those who abandon their friends to follow the law... they're lower than scum!"-Kakashi | |
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| Master Jedi | Nov 17 2011, 01:46 AM Post #18 |
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Bantha Fodder
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I just finished reading "Revan!" Woooooooohooooooooooooo! 10 out of every 10 people disagree on what Revan actually represented as a person. There will be plenty of people who tear their shirts and howl at the moon, saying something like, "It isnt fair!! waaaa! my Revan B slapped Bastila and never left the cockpit!," and whatnot. I feel that Drew did the very best he could and believe he will probably appease at least 51+ percent of "the devoted" in his reading audience. ![]() On a scale of 1-10, I give it a 10! This is the KOTOR 3 that I have been waiting for! Sure it isn't in video game form, but at least they threw us a bone! Right guys? Guys? Hello? Oh no, it's just me again...
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| Click to see the best Mass Effect 3(ish) fan trailer I've ever seen! | |
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| DarthJigsaw | Nov 18 2011, 03:19 AM Post #19 |
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Bantha Fodder
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Read the book in it's entirety the day it came out, and wow, it's the disappointment I feared it was going to be. Alot of fanboy reviews have stated their complete contenpment for Drew Karpyshyn, I'd say I am thankful for an explanation instead of 'Revan and Exile traveled to the Unknown Regions, never to be heard from again.' An Amazon review summarized my exact feelings...
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| Chase | Nov 23 2011, 07:43 AM Post #20 |
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I couldn't agree more with the Amazon review. I've read all three of Drew Karpyshyn's Mass Effect novels, as well as the three Darth Bane books, and I've noticed a pattern in Drew's story writing: all of his novels seem to have somewhat tragic endings. I won't spoil the two trilogies mentioned above, but for some reason Drew Karpyshyn likes to kill off characters for no good reason whatsoever. And this rang especially true in the Revan novel. Those who have read most of his books know which characters I am talking about, and how they always met tragic ends that felt unsatisfying to some of us reading them. I can confidently say that if Drew Karpyshyn ever writes another novel I'll be sure not to read it. I've read a lot of novels in my time, and out of all of those authors Karpyshyn was one of the few that could keep my eyes glued to the page, however at one point towards the end, I nearly threw the book down right then. I only wish that I knew what a negative and unsatisfying effect this novel would have on me before I read it. I'm really sorry to be saying this, but I was extremely disappointed with the ending and Drew Karpyshyn in general. This was almost like a slap in the face to those of us who have waited so long for the conclusion to Revan's tale. Not even 300 pages long? I had a bad feeling about this right when I saw the page count. Had Atton been beside me I might have been smart enough to never have purchased the book to begin with. Let's play pazaak instead. And rushed deadlines or not, it's not an excuse for the horrid ending that we get shoved in our faces. This is a tale that has been speculated about for EIGHT YEARS! Don't tell me that there's any kind of rush after that much time passes by. No, the deadline was set up so badly becuase of one thing: TOR. Instead of a book about Revan that gives a satisfying ending to those of us who have waited so long, we get a plug for the upcoming TOR MMO that I could not care less about. Forget the book, give me KOTOR 3 please, along with Battlefront 3. Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting, but the ending to this book really ticked me off. The characters that we got to know so well in the games are so poorly portrayed in this sad excuse of a novel. NO mention of Carth Onasi? Are you kidding me!? Even Obsidian threw in a cameo of him in KOTOR II, but apparently in Drew Karpyshyn's mind he doesn't deserve even a mention in his book. I'm tired of reading Karpyshyn's novels and being afraid that a notable character is going to be killed off for no good reason. I had to grit my teeth and bare down just to finish the last few pages, and I am very sorry that I feel this way. I had high hopes for this novel, and for Drew Karpyshyn as a writer, but after this, I question his storytelling abilities. Stick to videogame dialogue, Drew, it's what your best at. Leave the novels to someone else. |
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| Master Jedi | Nov 24 2011, 08:26 AM Post #21 |
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Bantha Fodder
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Drew Karpyshyn addressed a few of these issues in one of his recent entries on his website. There are just a few things that I will add that he didnt touch on: 1. The events that transpired in his book will not contradict the TOR universe. 2. People who plan on playing TOR will enjoy his book more than those who wanted complete closure... Here is a quick list of what he writes about in his latest entry on his website: 1. Why he tackled such a controversial topic 2. The split between people loving or hating his book 3. Why it had the ending that it did 4. The issue of Revan's companions and why he approached it the way he did 5. Star Wars Canon http://drewkarpyshyn.com/c/?p=342 |
| Click to see the best Mass Effect 3(ish) fan trailer I've ever seen! | |
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| Chase | Nov 25 2011, 04:57 AM Post #22 |
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Just read Drew's 'explanation' for why he thinks the novel is getting either love or hate from its readers. Here's Drew's explanation for why he didn't include hardly ANY supporting characters in the novel: "Between KOTOR and KOTOR 2 we’d have roughly a dozen supporting characters; if I work them all in, then none of them will get the treatment they deserve." So... to solve the problem of a large cast, you just don't include really ANY of them? No mention of the exile's companions whatsoever, with the exclusion of droids and Canderous. I would have been happy with just reading small cameos of the supporting characters from KOTOR and KOTOR 2 rather than just pretend they don't exist. Part of that problem though might be because Drew Karpyshyn doesn't really consider KOTOR 2's cast to be 'canon'. You can't just neglect canon because you didn't write it. Also, it's kind of hard to include a fairly large cast of characters when you only write 289 pages and some ridiculous template sith character gets half of that. The title should have been TOR: Scourge. That wouldn't sell as well though would it Drew? Here's another quote of Drew: "For example, many of the 1-star folks are upset because the book doesn’t have the typical happy ending. I’m not sure why they’re suprised by this – KOTOR 2 established that Revan disappeared alone into the Unknown Regions and didn’t return. Did fans think he was out there just partying and chillaxing? It doesn’t seem hard to figure out that something bad happened to him, so I find it amusing when people get bent out of shape because I have the gall to rip away the veil of mystery and show them a truth they didn’t want to see." Before TOR was even mentioned there was never a return by the 'true' Sith. This lead most people to speculate that Revan had been successful in his efforts to stop the Sith. All of a sudden though, Bioware wants to forget all about KOTOR and KOTOR 2 and start all over with new characters, basically just shoving away Revan, the Exile and all of their companions. My perceived ending for Revan would have been that in order to prevent the 'true' sith from invading the Republic, he would have to sacrifice himself. So he is never heard from again but the true sith never returned. Instead in the span of a few pages Drew just guts as many characters as possible, of course he left his favorite character of the book alive: Scourge. Drew has to be the worst writer when it comes to names. From a krogan named Scar to a sith named Scourge, and then Meetra? Come on Drew, couldn't you have come up with better names than that? Another quote: "Actually, it’s sort of ironic, because a criticism often leveled against me is that I don’t respect existing Star Wars canon. I disagree with that..." Well, I disagree with your disagreeing Drew. You say that you 'respect' Star Wars canon, well if you do then why is there no mention of Atton Rand, Bao-Dur, Brianna, Atris, Mira, or Visas Marr,? I would have though that those who were the lost Jedi would have been signifiant enough to have had a place in your mini-novel that doesn't even reach 300 pages. Oh, that's right you and Bioware didn't have a hand in creating those characters, so you pretend that they don't exist. Whatever. And finally: "...may I suggest that you try not to go in with preconceived notions of what should or shouldn’t happen to Revan. Enjoy the book for what it *is* and you’ll have a much better experience than those who are upset over what it *isn’t*." Basically he's saying that just because he hopscotched over the challenge of writing a decent conclusion to Revan's story doesn't mean that you shouldn't 'enjoy' it. Sure, I love having characters that I am endeared to gutted and hung up on the wall to die right in front of my eyes. Just enjoyong it for what it "is" Drew. The reason that the ending has received such a negative response is because Revan and the Exile are basically wiped out of existence in favor of your new money making MMO world of warcraft wanna be. You put profit over great storytelling. I'm not looking for a 'happy' ending. There is no reason to wait so long to conclude Revan's tale when your just going to end by saying: 'Revan tries his gosh darnest to prevent the Emperor from attacking the republic, and the ghost of the badly named exile will provide comfort when the sith invade. the end.' Most of the fans wanted closure for a character that has never been given such. Instead we get a similar ending to KOTOR 1 and 2. Left shrouded in dark. This whole entry in his website seems like a poor attempt at defending his writing abilities. Don't get me wrong, Drew Karpyshyn is one of the best stylistic writers in my opinion. However, as far as his storytelling abilities go I just don't think he has it. I have a feeling that if Mass Effect had canon then Drew would give it a 'tragic' ending too and kill off any endearing characters. The ending to Revan wouldn't be such a problem for me if Drew didn't end ALL of his novels that way. Out of the seven books of his that I have read all of them hold on to the constant theme of dark and tragic endings. I will never consider Drew's book about Revan to be 'canon' in my mind. As far as I am concerned the fans decide what the true 'canon' is. "It’s still early, but it looks like Revan is jumping off the shelves. (I guess controversy sells!)" And you couldn't be happier, could you Drew? Looks like profit trumps great storytelling in the end folks. |
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| KOTOR MOVIE Fan | Jan 11 2012, 10:56 PM Post #23 |
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Midichlorian
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Ok um if you actually pay attention Revan doesn't ever die. Ever and he returns in a few hundred years in the events of the TOR Game. Surprising he knew what he's doing right?! <---sarcasm. Anyways, he knew what he was doing and to go against your "name issues." More than likely he had no hand in choosing the final result of a lot of the names. Sure he probably had ideas that he tried to involve in there, but in reality do you know who gets the last say on anything Star Wars??? Oh yea George cause he owns everything Star Wars and everything has to be "Lucas Approved." Now I'm not trying to cause more Lucas hate, but that's the facts. Lucas has last say in all Star Wars related things. Even the smallest action figure. So the names were probably decided by Lucas long before the book was released...just saying.
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| Vadakin | Jan 16 2012, 01:51 AM Post #24 |
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Jedi Grand Master
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I'd be willing to bet that Lucas doesn't have a clue who Revan is or about any of that stuff. Don't forget, he views the expanded universe as being more of an alternate universe. If he made another movie it wouldn't tie in at all with "canon." Sure, every now and then he'll find a character or name that he likes and use it in a film or in Clone Wars but he doesn't try to tie everything together. For him, Star Wars consists of the movies, the Clone Wars and whatever backstory he has for the Jedi and Sith. That's it. A Lucas approval is basically anything that he isn't planning on doing himself. Nothing more. As far as the novel goes, it exists for the sole purpose of tying KOTOR to TOR. Bioware and LucasArts pretty much said "hey a lot of people like Revan...let's bring him into TOR...hey you...author guy...find a way to send Revan to the future....companions? Nah we don't need them." A Revan novel unconstrained by the need to tie it to a video game set 300 years later could have been pretty damn cool. Think about what happened in TSL. Kreia said that Revan's intention was to strengthen the Republic against the True Sith. That's why he went to war with the Republic. Then you had the finding of the Lost Jedi who would train others and essentially make sure that the Jedi were ready for the threat. Canderous was tasked by Revan to reunite the clans. Even HK-47 would find himself building an army of sorts. Indications are that KOTOR 3 would have essentially revolved around a massive war between the Republic and the True Sith with Revan and Exile playing some part in the Republic's victory...or defeat. Now that's essentially what's happening in TOR. But because Bioware have cast aside a lot of the backstory, the supporting characters had to be dealt with as well and thus they were tossed aside and the notion of readying the Republic for war after TSL was thrown out. Instead Bioware jumped 3 centuries ahead and so the story that was set to be told was cannibalized. The Revan book could never be what it should have been due to the 300 year jump. It meant creating a convoluted reason to bring Revan to the future, which in turn meant losing beloved supporting characters, immediately destroying the investment people had in the story. The thing is, there was an easy way around it. All they had to do was have the True Sith invade in the KOTOR era, have Revan and Exile defeat them with allies, maybe with just a few Sith survivors who disappear back into unknown space and spend 300 years rebuilding. Revan and Exile could have had their closure and Bioware could have had their 300 year time jump for TOR. |
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Try Not. Do...Or Do Not. There Is No Try. -Master Yoda
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| Darth_Rictor | Jan 24 2012, 06:01 PM Post #25 |
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Midichlorian
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WOW! I've read just about every Star Wars boom, even the kiddie books that give me a head ache. But I'm on the second chapter now, and I just wanted to know what everyone else thought of it, cause I was confused. Why do they start off the book with someone else? A sith we've never heard of. Sure there was a small part with Revan waking up in the morning, but then I have to read about someone else? I got through the first chapter, and the book finally mentions Revan again. He's walking through the streets of Coruscant and jokes with T3 about HK...... Uhm... I don't think I will be reading this one. I can put it on the shelf with all the Clone Wars crap....oh wait, I didn't buy any of that junk! Kinda funny. I got season 1 of the Clone Wars for Xmas. I put it on the shelf next to....the Clone Wars I got a couple of years ago. Those cartoon shorts they put out on Cartoon network. Why did they make 2 of the same story????? If they rewrote the same story like they did with the Clone Wars, could they do the same with this story??? No, Lucasarts wouldn't make any money from that. And it's Lucasarts that makes a lot of the decisions for what's in the books, however, the writer is responsible for connecting these plot points with what ever they want. George Lucas doesn't bother with the books, comics, and games(except The Force Unleashed) Lucas was looking for something specific with that game. I had the same feelings when the Republic Commando series ended. All of a sudden, the Mando's became a peaceful society for the Clone Wars....after paying someone to create a whole world around them being great warriors and mercenaries! Karen Travis spent all that time creating something and then Lucasarts tells here "Oh, were changing the Mandalorians for the Clone Wars. It's our new money maker, so your series cant continue the way it is." I haven't been following the Revenge Of Revan as I should have been. I kinda intro'd Kaydon to the creator in hopes of Kaydon voicing Revan in that game. I know the guy was doing some pretty cool stuff. It's just sad, really sad. Anyone out there want to take a shot at writing their own version of Kotor 3? |
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| Revan911 | Jan 24 2012, 09:27 PM Post #26 |
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Midichlorian
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Actually that comment just made me really want to give it a try At least once my exams are done.
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| LONG LIVE KOTOR | |
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| Vadakin | Jan 24 2012, 11:32 PM Post #27 |
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Jedi Grand Master
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I've thought about it. I have a plot that works due to not being restricted by being a video game. It would be non-paying work though and I need to focus on original content that I can make a living from. I may do it someday but I doubt it. |
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Try Not. Do...Or Do Not. There Is No Try. -Master Yoda
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| Darthslim108 | Jan 25 2012, 01:56 AM Post #28 |
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Jedi Youngling
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I just finished the book last night, and from what I can tell, I'm one of the few people who enjoyed it. I think most people's problem is that they were expecting this to be the grand conclusion to Revan's story, and on that account I can understand the disappointment. The way I see it, this is not Revan's conclusion, just a setup for his appearance in SWTOR and an explanation for how he's survived this long (not a spoiler, just speculation, I haven't actually encountered Revan in the game yet). Sure, the ending seemed a bit rushed, but I liked the possible futures that it suggested, and now I want to get back into the game and see how this all plays out. |
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| mr_dad | Jan 25 2012, 09:41 PM Post #29 |
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Jedi Youngling
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I liked the book to. The climax was a little disappointing but that was the only problem I had. |
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| Vadakin | Jan 28 2012, 02:30 AM Post #30 |
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Jedi Grand Master
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Just for kicks I laid out what I would do if I wrote an alternate conclusion to the Revan/Exile story. I came up with 27 chapters. It would have been divided into 7 different parts. One part would have focused on events before and between the games, dealing with Revan turning to the Dark Side, his life with Bastila after the war, Exile's trial and expulsion from the Jedi Order. Another part would have told of Exile's journey into the Unknown Regions to find Revan. An entire section of the book would be devoted to the Sith, looking at events from their point of view. We would also see the build up to war and the ultimate conclusion of the Revan/Exile story. Because it would be a novel rather than a game, it wouldn't need to be structured like a game or have to account for player characters. Of course that's if I was writing it...I'm not.
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Try Not. Do...Or Do Not. There Is No Try. -Master Yoda
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7:31 PM Jul 11
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![]](http://z5.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)





Surprising he knew what he's doing right?! <---sarcasm. Anyways, he knew what he was doing and to go against your "name issues." More than likely he had no hand in choosing the final result of a lot of the names. Sure he probably had ideas that he tried to involve in there, but in reality do you know who gets the last say on anything Star Wars??? Oh yea George cause he owns everything Star Wars and everything has to be "Lucas Approved." Now I'm not trying to cause more Lucas hate, but that's the facts. Lucas has last say in all Star Wars related things. Even the smallest action figure. So the names were probably decided by Lucas long before the book was released...just saying.


At least once my exams are done.


7:31 PM Jul 11