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Kurragar Of The Hordes
Topic Started: Feb 3 2013, 11:11 PM (1,608 Views)
thefivecivilizations
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CVH
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jman5x
Feb 24 2013, 09:10 PM
It just occurred to me, could you still summon the creature if it was under 5k power and your opponent had Infernus out? If you couldn't, would you put it at bottom of deck or in your hand?
I believe you can still play the creature, but don't use the word "summon". Kurragar gets around Infernus because "put into the battle zone" is a different thing. Return from Beyond also gets around Infernus.

All summons involve you put something into the battle zone, but you're not always summoning something when you put it into the battle zone lol.
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ZeroVash
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What CVH said is correct. Infernus only blocks 'hard' summons from hand. Anything like Kurragar or Return from Beyond that would summon a creature (or 'cheating' a creature in if you prefer) bypasses its effect.
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Nerafim
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Awesome art on this beautiful beast, but as for the card as a whole I have to kind of take a middle-ground approach here. I think people are focusing a bit too much on the effect and what it can potentially do instead of the difficulty.

The problem isn't so much the strength of the effect or the randomness, it's the activation.

By 9 mana when you play him, nearly everything in your hand can just be normally played anyway and at that late of a game stage you are going to be low on hand or topdecking for sure. And you don't need more mana at that point either.

That being said I believe the card and effect have solid potential, you can somewhat easily manipulate the conditions in which you can abuse that effect. But to trick is NOT to directly look at the card and what it can do, and more about how it can threaten.

Currently there are at least 2 combos/strategies that can make it worthwhile, and about 3 advantages that it can give with its effect alone. It will become considerably better once certain mechanics enter in this game, i.e. mana bounce.

-Nera
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jman5x
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Nerafim
Mar 4 2013, 07:43 PM
Awesome art on this beautiful beast, but as for the card as a whole I have to kind of take a middle-ground approach here. I think people are focusing a bit too much on the effect and what it can potentially do instead of the difficulty.

The problem isn't so much the strength of the effect or the randomness, it's the activation.

By 9 mana when you play him, nearly everything in your hand can just be normally played anyway and at that late of a game stage you are going to be low on hand or topdecking for sure. And you don't need more mana at that point either.

That being said I believe the card and effect have solid potential, you can somewhat easily manipulate the conditions in which you can abuse that effect. But to trick is NOT to directly look at the card and what it can do, and more about how it can threaten.

Currently there are at least 2 combos/strategies that can make it worthwhile, and about 3 advantages that it can give with its effect alone. It will become considerably better once certain mechanics enter in this game, i.e. mana bounce.

-Nera
Yes, everything you said was true, but you have to keep in mind the new dragon support. With fire birds and Foulbyrn/Herald you can cheat these guys out earlier when they will make a bigger impact on the way the game shapes. I do agree though, it's all about the activation. Everything else becomes moot without activation. I also agree that mana bounce will make this considerably more useful. Nature vs. Nature with this guy would end up all the bounce just powering you up. Unless aimed towards him.... you also have to consider cards like Karate Carrot and Bronze-Arm Sabertooth that go to mana when banished. If Sabertooth is banished when this guys around, that's 2 possible top-deck summons.
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Nerafim
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Yes and those are the 2 strategies/combos with him that might be making it wortwhile for now. First one is with effects and cards like Karate Carrot. This is actually very good because it makes your field even more threatening to remove and because you can still play those cards at that point normally or as a topdeck. Moreso the cards themselves aid in him coming out faster. Will be cooler once you have the ability to sacrifice your own creatures tho'. Now its not even a combo.

Second one is to just get him out really fast and indirectly. Herald of Infernus is the best bet for that and Genie in a Bottle second. If you get him out that fast you will still naturally need to add mana for several turns so its a convenient big boost to your normal turn activities, but then you wouldn't play this with Herald directly if you can help it. Foulbyrn sucks and it's too slow.

But none of this changes the core problem which is that you will only add so much mana in a duel before you are just throwing away cards. At around 7 or 8 you are already capped to be honest so even Dragonsong is kind of slow. Its as if they only intended for his effect to be used an average of once per duel or something, lol.

However if you look at the effect a different way you can actually see some pretty cool situations where it can unexpectedly be good but this depends more on reading the game and your deck flaws.

For example if you are topdecking and you drew something really bad this is a good chance to redo or double your chances of a successful play. We can all imagine how shitty luck of the draw in late game can be and how it can easily cost or win you a duel.

Then the MAIN advantage of this effect is the playing burst. Play extra mana, get something from it and then play something you PAY for with that mana. This is actually the real strength of this card, the ability to increase your field swarming power and save up on time, which is the core theme of Nature too. ^_^b

-Nera
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jman5x
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Aquan

I completely agree. Herald is viable, Foulbyrn seems useless with this guy. But you also have to keep in mind that ability or not he can deal with alot of threats. I kind of wish he had an ability for when he was banished because he's gonna be a big target unless you have a high-end card on the field that leans more towards aggressiveness, which is kinda hard due to the fact he alone is a 12k Triple Breaker. I don't see him being the most useful dragon and I don't see him being too popular, but he definitely has advantages and usefulness that can't be overlooked.
Decks:
Eluding Abyss
Fight!
Shields holding!
W/F rush
My trade thread and ref thread.
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Nerafim
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jman5x
Mar 5 2013, 09:47 AM
I completely agree. Herald is viable, Foulbyrn seems useless with this guy. But you also have to keep in mind that ability or not he can deal with alot of threats. I kind of wish he had an ability for when he was banished because he's gonna be a big target unless you have a high-end card on the field that leans more towards aggressiveness, which is kinda hard due to the fact he alone is a 12k Triple Breaker. I don't see him being the most useful dragon and I don't see him being too popular, but he definitely has advantages and usefulness that can't be overlooked.
Overthinking it. You don't need the card alone to do everything, that's what the deck itself is for. Lux is actually all you need to make his late game effect practical. And yeah the power and Triple is cool, but that wasn't a question. To be fair all cards in that cost range have similar powers so in that sense he isn't anything special, making the mention kind of moot. He's weaker than Infernus for example, so in a sense focusing on the effect (and Civ.) is all you got as justification really.

Actually, the truth of the matter is that with such high cost AND conditioned effects cards you can only really value their power in the deck and when reading the game flow. The higher cost a card is, the more its power comes from the deck and the meta, the combos and progressions that back it up.

This card is absolutely mad in lots of late game scenarios because it can give you multiple plays per turn, it gives huge comeback and regeneration value or total game wining overwhelm. Especially important since that's when shields start being broken so you have hand. The more conditioned an effect is, the stronger and more devastating it actually is, as opposed to just something like Infernus or Regarion that react instantly.

It just takes some A class level of skills to make this work the best, it involves A LOT of knowing what can happen in a duel or how late dueling turns will turn out so it's quite difficult to read properly where its advantages happen. I'd say he's on par with Dracothane and Andromeda for Late Game action.

This is a strategy game, the most challenging and highly rewarding moves are not supposed to be popular because they are not the easiest to grasp or setup. Skill freeing is the true advantage that any card can hope to give. ;p
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