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Controversy surrounds Lawrence navigator for Affordable Care Act
Topic Started: Oct 14 2013, 08:39 PM (3,523 Views)
costello
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This story in the Journal World saddens me: http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/oct/14/controversy-surrounds-lawrence-navigator-affordabl/

One of the outreach workers for the ACA in Lawrence had an outstanding bad check (ironically for medical bills from a time she was uninsured). Kevin Groenhagen found out about it and sent in on to the Daily Caller which did a story on it. (3000+ comments currently on what is essentially a non-story)

From the ljworld story:

Quote:
 
News of Wells' arrest warrant quickly spread across the Internet on Monday, with conservative politicians and pundits citing the case as another example of the ineffectiveness of the Affordable Care Act rollout. The law's implementation has been under intense criticism because the healthcare.gov website has been beset with glitches and delays.

"The lead ObamaCare navigator in KS has outstanding arrest warrant. Trust her w/ ur IRS info. #ObamaCareFail," tweeted U.S. Rep. Tim Huelskamp, R-Kan., on Monday. (Wells is not the lead navigator for the state of Kansas.)


To me it's just slimy to drag some private individual who's had some financial problems into this for political reasons.
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Liberty275
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Flunky

"The conservative-leaning Daily Caller reported that Wells, who works at Heartland Community Health Center, had an outstanding arrest warrant to go with past financial problems. The story later headlined the popular Drudge Report website."

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/oct/14/controversy-surrounds-lawrence-navigator-affordabl/

This is what happens when you stand for an unpopular idea and your real name is put into the media. If you say the wrong thing, somebody will come after you.

I have no comment on her situation or fitness for the job, or her job. But I wonder, if her name had never gone into the journal world, would anybody had bothered looking at her past? I wonder if they feel had for this person because they put her name on the internet first.

You guys can argue about the aca. I don't like it. You don't need to hear my opinion about it again.
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Jessamine
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It is slimy because that's the way groenhagen rolls. He is one creepy dude, but it appears the L jW likes him.
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Thinking_Out_Loud
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Disillusioned Optimist
Agreed, Costello. This is a non-story. An honest working stiff is being villainized as a political pawn.
Edited by Thinking_Out_Loud, Oct 14 2013, 09:26 PM.
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liberty
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costello
Oct 14 2013, 08:39 PM
To me it's just slimy to drag some private individual who's had some financial problems into this for political reasons.
It is slimy. It's a slomy tactic that to upends some normal person's life for the sake of extraordinarily petty politics. It will change her life, it won't be a blip in the fight against the aca.

So much personal information should not be available so easily.
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verity
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This is worse than slimey. This shows how nastily low some people will go to try to make a cheap political point, not caring if they ruin somebody's life or even if there's any truth in their accusations.


It does tend to backfire.
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thebcman
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verity
Oct 14 2013, 10:11 PM
This is worse than slimey. This shows how nastily low some people will go to try to make a cheap political point, not caring if they ruin somebody's life or even if there's any truth in their accusations.


It does tend to backfire.
Sounds like typical Republican behavior to me.
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just another bozo on this bus
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Kevin is an asshole (that's a fact, not an insult.) He's been known to threaten other posters. I hope those who are arguing with him and whose true identities are now known also know that he's known to at least threaten to take action against his "foes" outside the forum. His petty attack against this woman is a fine example of what he's capable of just to make political points (and ingratiate himself to another internet asshole, Drudge.)
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Riverdrifter
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Kevin is slime. Therefore, he's yet once again the World Co's lapdog. Dolph will like him until he doesn't and then they'll dump him. Again.
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jafs
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It's ironic and sad that this woman's prior problems actually had to do with health care and being uninsured. Also, she said she didn't know about the warrant, and once notified, took care of it.

Also, KG speaks of "financial advisers" and not going to one who had financial troubles themselves. That might be a good idea (although somebody who had had those issues, and solved them might be a good choice), but she's not a financial adviser, so it's not a good analogy.

All the navigators do is help people navigate applying for insurance through the exchanges.

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Anyer Marx
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Kevin is doing journalistic due dilligence, something the Journal World and most of the Journalistic community has lost sight of. She is dealing with peoples protected personal information. Remove that it is the ACA (which is horrible) and you have a pseudo financial advisor (health care portion) with your credit/financial information who should have been vetted. Certainly her previous experiences could be of assistance or they could be reason to avoid her services, shouldn't the consumer make that decision? I for one wouldn't be confident in dealing with someone who failed to comprehend the system but now claims to be an expert after 20 hours of training.
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jafs
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What does "pseudo" financial adviser mean? She's not advising anybody on how to save/spend/invest their money, whether or not to buy a house or rent, etc.

I don't understand your last sentence at all - navigators who've been trained on the ACA are probably much more knowledgeable than many people who know little or nothing about it at all.

If people don't want to give any personal information, nobody's forcing them to use the navigators - you can sign up on your own if you like instead.

This seems more like character assassination to me than journalistic due diligence.

Due diligence would mean making sure that they're qualified to do their job, which is help people apply for health insurance through the exchanges. Nothing in KG's report is relevant to that, as far as I can tell.

Edited by jafs, Oct 15 2013, 09:09 AM.
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autie
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Whoa, that is kind of a huge stretch to call somebody a pseudo financial advisor when their role is to assist in the shopping and comparing and signing up for health care. Would that mean that every kid in the retail store that helps you sign up for your rewards card is a financial advisor? Conservativeman, I find your view disjointed and twisted more than an accurate portrait of the facts. But of course fodder would be made of it.
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just another bozo on this bus
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The fact is that she was vetted, and nothing that KG or Drudge have "revealed" gives any indication that she's not capable of doing the job for which she was hired, or that she can't be trusted with the limited personal information that might be revealed to her.

This is nothing more than the same type of dis/misinformation that took down ACORN (but there are still plenty of idiots out there who still believe the urban myths that have been shoved down their throats.)
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Jessamine
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Cman, I am disappointed in you. Sticking up for groeny is not so something I would expect from you.
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deec
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Having financial difficulties is not an indicator of dishonesty. If it were, there are a whole lot of banks that should be shut down.
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Anyer Marx
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deec
Oct 15 2013, 10:09 AM
Having financial difficulties is not an indicator of dishonesty. If it were, there are a whole lot of banks that should be shut down.
It is an indicator of incompetence or inability.

What does a navigator do: According to some web page http://www.naic.org/store/free/RNP-OP.pdf the following:

"Distribute fair and impartial information concerning enrollment in qualified health plans, and the availability of premium tax credits and cost-sharing reductions in accordance with federal tax laws"

Part of her problem was delinquent taxes, of course she says it is resolved, we'll take her word for it.

Dealing with taxes, tax credits, tax codes and such is part of financial planning.
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costello
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Conservativeman
Oct 15 2013, 10:29 AM
Part of her problem was delinquent taxes, of course she says it is resolved, we'll take her word for it.
Actually she denied the tax issue. From the LJW article:

Quote:
 
The article also stated that she had an outstanding tax bill of $1,700, though Wells said that claim was unfounded. A search of tax delinquencies on the Kansas Department of Revenue website didn't pull anything up for Wells.
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just another bozo on this bus
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Conservativeman
Oct 15 2013, 10:29 AM
It is an indicator of incompetence or inability.

What does a navigator do: According to some web page http://www.naic.org/store/free/RNP-OP.pdf the following:

"Distribute fair and impartial information concerning enrollment in qualified health plans, and the availability of premium tax credits and cost-sharing reductions in accordance with federal tax laws"

Part of her problem was delinquent taxes, of course she says it is resolved, we'll take her word for it.

Dealing with taxes, tax credits, tax codes and such is part of financial planning.
Having financial difficulties is a sign of not having enough money. Your speculation as to why she had/has financial difficulties is nothing more than that-- speculation.

You have no evidence that she has any motivation or proclivity to give out bad information.

And she's helping navigate a website. She's not doing anything remotely like "financial planning."
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jafs
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She was a single mom without health insurance, and ran up a rather small medical bill that she was unable to pay at the time.

That in no way detracts from her ability to help people distribute the information you mention. It might even make her better at that job, since she empathizes with people who have health issues and/or not enough money to pay medical bills on their own.

Finding an imperfection in a human being is easy to do, and using that imperfection to tear them down seems like a rather mean one to me. I knew somebody once who essentially looked for people's imperfections and then, once he found them, immediately dismissed them. That means he dismissed a lot of people who might have had a lot to offer. Also, very ironically, he wasn't a happy person, and instead of trying to figure out how to be happier, he embarked on that project.



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deec
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"Having financial difficulties is a sign of not having enough money. "

Exactly, bozo. Why do we hold individuals to a higher standard than corporations like banks? Taxpayers all over the world spent hundreds of billions of dollars bailing out banks with financial difficulties. Only in the case of the financial industry, there was actual fraud, theft, and incompetence involved. Dozens of corporations take bankruptcy annually while rewarding the leaders who mismanaged them.
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jafs
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Great question. There's also a big double standard regarding rich and poor people - many times people excuse very bad behavior by rich people while condemning bad behavior by poor ones.

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Anyer Marx
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just another bozo on this bus
Oct 15 2013, 10:44 AM

You have no evidence that she has any motivation or proclivity to give out bad information.

And she's helping navigate a website. She's not doing anything remotely like "financial planning."
You have no evidence that she has any motivation or proclivity to give out good or accurate information. She could just be receiving money from the federal teet to get over, I don't know her motivations, neither do you.

"Helping navigate" speculation, she may have taken a 20 hour course and doesn't know a thing regarding her duties.

She is getting a paycheck from a federal grant to help people forced by the federal government to purchase a service that many don't want and many don't need. Navigators, community organizers, advocates and such are parasites.

Mr. Kevin G. provided a valuable journalistic service to the community, he exposed a potential problem at the micro level while indicting the macro problem that is Obamacare. Great work, kudos on good journalism.

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jafs
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You're the one claiming something, so you have the burden of proof.

She knows more about her job than you or I, since neither one of us has taken any class at all.

People aren't in fact "forced" to buy insurance, they simply have to pay a fine if they don't, and there are many exceptions to that.

Do you apply that logic to organizers, advocates, etc. on both sides of the political spectrum, or just one side?

He didn't expose any problem at the micro level for me, and I find little compelling criticism of the ACA at a macro level there either.

The ACA is imperfect, like all human creations, and will take a little time to implement fully and correctly.

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deec
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Her financial problem in no way reflects on her ability to do her job. If she were employed by, say a private insurance company to help navigate the ACA, would she still be attacked? Because I'd guess the insurance industry has hired a lot of people to cope with the ACA. Should these people have their personal money problems exposed online?

It's a smear campaign by a notorious muck-lover.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/10/01/15-myths-the-media-should-ignore-during-obamaca/196181#anchor10

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/21/technology-firms-staff-up-to-build-health-insurance-exchanges.html
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