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A victory for grievers; discussion
Topic Started: Oct 26 2014, 03:16 AM (1,463 Views)
Abby
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Just Abby
After this recent bout of griefer bullshit, the Just KrAbby's will be extending their leave of absence until Turbine deals with it. Which may be never. In any event, I vote with my subscriptions, and while Turbine obviously doesn't care, that's two more subscriptions they can kiss goodbye.
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WeeTodd

I'm sorry Abby...I have yet to call them but I'm thinking the same thing...maybe they will understand when people quit paying. :( We have 2 accounts also that may take a break until they can get their heads out of their asses...
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Krohkur
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Yep. I cancelled my renewal (which was coming due on November 1, so the timing works).

The thing is, the music community spends a crap-ton of money with them. It isn't just subscriptions, but cosmetics, emotes, all sorts of nonsense that I wouldn't have spent money on if I weren't using it for concerts or comedic effect related to the show.

I've not submitted a PM on the LOTRO site, mainly because I can't seem to finish writing one that is calm and reasoned. I'll keep working on it.
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Abby
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Just Abby
Maybe it's not the time for calm and reasoned. Turbine knows you, Kro. As a previous member of the player council, they know you as a level-headed guy. If you give them a RAWR message, maybe they'll take notice.

Just thinking out loud.

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Krohkur
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Yeah. Okay. You're probably right.

And thanks for the FB Group link, Fin. Joined.
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Ereylen

It saddens me greatly to hear of this. :(

I've been out of the loop this week, but I don't think I'm going to be so quick to renew my VIP depending on how this goes down. I had to cancel for financial reasons a few weeks back... and now, I just don't know. While I don't have access to the zones I enjoyed questing in, the music is what keeps me coming back night after night.. well, the music and my music-making friends.
Hugses to everyone.
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Krohkur
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Sent to Rowan (the Producer) and copied to Frelorn (new Community Manager) in a PM on the LOTRO Forums:

I play (among other characters) Krohkur on Landroval. Or I did. I am not entirely certain I want to continue. Before you trash this as just another whine, let me explain a bit.

I was a Player Council member last year. I was one of the small group (six) that Turbine brought to Boston to talk about things, and to see what was happening. I even talked on the Community Update VLOG that Sapience put together. I'm the idiot who said there was synergy and dialog happening.

I say "idiot" because I was wrong.

I was in the audience duing the concert at Pierson's Farm Sunday night, when the two characters on horseback came to disrupt things. I was one who filed a ticket. I was one who was told by GMs to stop reporting it, as it wasn't a violation, that "standing there doesn't constitute harassment".

---
Quote:
 
harassment
[huh-ras-muh nt, har-uh s-muh nt]
noun
1. the act or an instance of harassing, or disturbing, pestering, or troubling repeatedly; persecution.

---

How can anyone not see the behavior (which has been INCREASING since this "free pass" was issued) is not harassment? To narrowly define "standing in one spot" as permissible ignores the very obvious spirit of maliciousness. This is fostering a toxic environment of bullying and abuse because "it's not against the letter of the policy".

Not harassment? Hogwash.

I am still unable to approach this subject in a calm manner. I am angered by the cavalier treatment of an entire community, and the encouragement of petty, vindictive behavior on the part of a few who find it fun to spoil other people's quiet enjoyment of the game.

I have continued to play LOTRO mainly for the music system, and the culture and community that has grown around it. Now, the actions of the GMs have proven that Turbine is not interested in that community's continued existence. To allow griefing like this simply kills the game for many of us.

I've canceled my VIP subscription. Others have, too.

We might not be "statistically significant", but we won't pay you to be abused, either. Nor will we buy cosmetics, mounts, or anything else from the Turbine Store. Why should we fund a system that has proven to be antithetical to our very nature? How can we continue to play in an atmosphere of hate, frustration and antagonism?

I don't know if you will reply, I suspect not. I am angry enough not to care. I hope you look into this, and I hope that management understands that when you alienate those who were your staunchest supporters, you have chosen to have people leave permanently, and be vocal about it.

I wanted better from Turbine. I expected better from Turbine. I was wrong. Boy, was I wrong.

I have been educated.
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WeeTodd

I sent 3 tweets to Frelorn but I don't think he's on twitter all that much...
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Lifimun
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Part of me suggests that all this ruckus is an encouragement. Though the action by the GM was clearly /not/ helpful and in fact exacerbated the situation.

I feel the best way to handle this is to orchestrate a concert that would provoke him into some clear violation. If, for example, you had a concert, he showed up, and then you moved multiple times with him moving each time to block the view, it may be viewed as more aggressive -- satisfying the definition of harassment by repetition after being asked first politely to move.

It's crappy that one would have to resort to such a tactic, but it might be something to consider. Or you can dismiss it as pointless because you don't think the GMs will declare any permutation of his behavior as harassment.

Either case, my experience is that re-adjudicating the past in these situations is rarely effective.
Edited by Lifimun, Oct 27 2014, 05:54 PM.
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Lasswen
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I feel somewhat the same Lifi. Every time I think about what could be done, I keep thinking how we shouldn't need to. If we say something in game, we're giving them attention. Say something in other public forums and we're giving attention to that behaviour too. But I also don't want to stand by and let it continue. I'll be quite interested to read if Krohkur gets a response from Rowan, and if anyone gets a response from Frelorn.

I was extremely disappointed with the GMs response at Pierson's Farm, and it's compounded when you read that not only has it continued since with the same characters, but they've also done it in the past too.

I wonder if there's any point to approaching any current players on the Players Council to bring this up with LOTRo/Turbine? I'd certainly hate to see concerts stop from continuing because, aside from me enjoying them, I don't want the griefers to have another sense of victory.
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