| Aren't there some of you who work in the insurance industry?; Estimate finally came back | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 23 2018, 08:57 AM (1,661 Views) | |
| Sugaree | Mar 23 2018, 08:57 AM Post #1 |
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In case you missed the weather thread earlier, we were hit by a tornado Monday night. Everyone is okay. The house is definitely not as bad as it could be, but it's pretty bad. Of the 20+ trees that came down in my yard, only two hit the house. Sideyard Backyard My greenhouse (Please ignore the xmas lights that were still up) This... ...caused this Because of the way my house is titled I have two separate insurance policies. A policy that covers the structure (it's not homeowner's, but the similar policy that covers a rental property) and my renter's insurance that covers the contents. The ball has already started rolling on the structure policy. Dad found a restoration company that can handle everything. They came and cut the trees off the house and tarped up the roof. They cut and moved enough of the other downed trees so that the adjuster can walk around the house (which was kind of awesome because I don't think a lot of those were supposed to be their problem). From what I can gather they will be back to cut the rest of the covered trees off of the fences, shed, greenhouse, etc. The ceiling will have to be fixed in at least two places and the roof will probably have to be redone. I'm guessing the carpet in the bedroom is a loss. It's soaked in some of the nastiest water I've ever seen. To be honest, I was planning on replacing the carpet anyway. I bought the flooring last week, but it hadn't been delivered yet. The kitchen and den also had standing water, but they had laminate or linoleum floors so I don't think that they are going to be too bad unless water got under the laminate. There's broken glass inside from where the storm door shattered and (we assume) blew under the wooden door. There's glass outside where the outer pane of the double pane picture window broke. The inner pane held thankfully. One of the support posts for the carport is missing. The back porch is likely going to have to be torn down and rebuilt. That brings us to the contents. I filed a claim and have an adjuster coming out Monday. Inside, it's not *too* bad. I know that my bed is probably a total loss. It's soaked in the same gross water as the carpet. The rest of the furniture in the bedroom has been moved out into the dry part of the house, but I'm afraid that the feet sat in water long enough to make the feet swell. The sofa is iffy. A small hole opened up above it and water poured in on one side. It seems to be dried out now, but I'm concerned about mold and to an extent the sheetrock and insulation that came down with the water. I haven't tested the electronics yet. Outside, I don't even know where to start listing stuff. There's stuff missing. There's stuff destroyed. There was a car seat in the carport that is now sitting in the neighbor's yard. It looks okay, but I have no idea if it hit anything when it flew out. DH's wheelbarrow was sitting in 6 different yards. The biggest expense is the additional living expenses. We've been in a hotel for the last few days and will probably be moving into an apartment soon, assuming that the insurance company doesn't tell us that the house is not uninhabitable because the roof is fully tarped and the electricity is back on. The dog has been boarded because his fence and porch are gone (he's loving life because he's gotten to follow us around the neighborhood and meet all the new people and get all the sticks he can chew). I've been eating out way more than normal. So what do I need to do to make sure that everything that should be covered actually gets covered? Do I start cleaning it or do I leave it be? Any tips on itemizing my contents? I probably don't have receipts for 99% of the stuff that's missing/destroyed. Edited by Sugaree, Mar 23 2018, 10:37 AM.
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| Gaping Maw | Mar 23 2018, 09:01 AM Post #2 |
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Not an insurance professional, but I recently read advice to take a ton of detailed photos before proceeding with the cleanup. It seems you’re already on top of that. Hugs and hopes for swift good resolution. Edited by Gaping Maw, Mar 23 2018, 09:02 AM.
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| momof3inmn | Mar 23 2018, 09:20 AM Post #3 |
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Lover of all things coffee!
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No advice on insurance but I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. |
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| Sugaree | Mar 23 2018, 09:26 AM Post #4 |
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Thanks. We're okay. It's amazing that the entire town survived an EF3 with no fatalities. |
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| Peebles | Mar 23 2018, 09:30 AM Post #5 |
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I'm not in insurance either but big hugs and I'm glad everyone is okay! |
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| Mischa | Mar 23 2018, 10:16 AM Post #6 |
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Loins of Joy
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Glad you are ok!!! |
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| velma88 | Mar 23 2018, 10:34 AM Post #7 |
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I am a duck with a mohawk and a mission
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Not in insurance either but I do a wicked imitation of the Aflac duck. Seriously- I am sorry you are dealing with this and I am so glad you and your family are okay. You sound on top of things! Please be sure to take care of yourself as well. Peep hugs to you! |
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| Incredible | Mar 23 2018, 11:00 AM Post #8 |
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Not my area of expertise, but I’m glad to see that you are all okay. |
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| beezknees | Mar 23 2018, 11:01 AM Post #9 |
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Echoing the other posters, so sorry that you have this to deal with. So glad that no one was injured! |
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| Pooby Butt | Mar 23 2018, 11:02 AM Post #10 |
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I'[m glad everyone's ok and sorry to hear you're going thru this. It's a pain, to be sure. Insurance office here. I may make this 2 posts because, well, work. My office has been thru 1 major weather event, and a few more minor events. Additional living expenses: in Missouri it's called "loss of use" If you see that on your policy, that is the additional living expenses. We would pay for your hotel, eating out, etc. I'm not sure, in your specific situation, if we would pay for a new rental for a few months because most renters would just say screw it and get a new rental anyway. But, I do understand in your situation why you wouldn't. Dad's policy, which I'm assuming is something similar to a rental dwelling policy, may also offer coverage to Dad for his Loss of Rents. If you can provide proof that "rent" is paid, then Dad should be able to recover that money, which, if your company doesn't pay for a home rental, you may be able to finagle with your dad to help on your rental. Just be aware that it may be considered "income" for dad (and the subsequent taxes). Any chance you and dad have your policies with the same company & agent? If so, if your agent is a good one, he/she should be able to help you in this situation. We would. We would do what we could in a situation in yours (kid renting from parent-we have many of those type situations on our books). I'm not sure on the dog kennel, but I would assume it would be covered since it is an expense above your normal expenses. The best thing to do is keep EVERY receipt, food and eating out included. Your food expense is now increased because you are having to eat out instead of eating at home for cheaper. Also, if you work and your hotel is farther away from work, keep gas receipts because that is also an increased expense. We had one situation where mom/dad had a house fire, and they "rented" their kids' travel trailer, so if you have access to something like that, keep that in mind too. Property damage to follow. |
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| AJsGirl | Mar 23 2018, 11:10 AM Post #11 |
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Judgy McJudgerson, Regional VP of Judging Operations, Division 6
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I'm in medical insurance, so I'm no help, but glad everyone is safe and I'm sorry you have to deal with all this mess. I hope it goes really smoothly for you. |
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| Pooby Butt | Mar 23 2018, 11:15 AM Post #12 |
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Property damage: Go ahead and start listing items. Don't worry about receipts. If you have them, great! Show them to the adjuster, but most reputable companies realize people don't keep their receipts. Do not throw anything away yet. We literally tell people that they can just throw things in a pile in the back yard for the adjuster to see if he/she needs to. Pictures are also always good. They may need them or not. But pictures do help in proving that such and such item was damaged. If the item could be salvageable, put it off to the side. Water restoration places can do absolute magic with some of that stuff, and your insurance may send some of the soft items (i.e. couch) there. But just go ahead and start up a list. When you have a total loss, it's actually much easier because the company (ours anyway) usually just cuts a check for the policy limits and is done. But partial losses usually require itemization lists. Go ahead and try to look up (or if you can remember) the value of said item. And think replacement, not that coo-coo clock you bought at a yard sale for $2. You may have lucked out and bought that couch/coo-coo clock/Waterford crystal vase for pennies at a yard sale, but to replace said item will likely cost more. Replace the car seat. Flying thru the air and hitting the object is, imo, the same as being in an accident, and they recommend replacing car seats after an accident. And don't be surprised if you miss items. CW had a garage theft many years ago, and for months, even years, they would go out to the garage to get "tool" just to realize that the tool must have been stolen, and they had forgotten it in the claim. Keep receipts for the tarping. You paid someone to tarp to "prevent further damage" Any expenses paid out of pocket to "prevent further damage" will be covered under your claim. RE: dad's laminate flooring. If it was under water for any period of time, I would strongly consider having it replaced. That stuff warps easily when under water. I had a customer have a water leak from her ice maker. Flooring was under clean water for a hour tops, and it still warped. Laminate under dirty water, I wouldn't trust it unless it's really a high quality, excellent install. Ask the contractor what he suggests, they would know best. |
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| Sugaree | Mar 23 2018, 12:33 PM Post #13 |
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Thanks! I've actually had two interesting phone calls since I posted that. First, I talked to a disaster specialist (?). He acted like the rental would be covered and if we couldn't find one to let him know and he could help with that. I don't think he realizes how difficult that's going to be. Several complexes were heavily damaged, including the biggest one in town that houses mostly college students who were fortuitously on spring break this week. We're getting in with a complex that's in the same company as the complex that DH works at. He also acted like the dog boarding will be covered too. When he asked if I'd cleaned anything I mentioned cleaning out the fridge and I think he took notes about loss of food in the fridge which I wasn't expecting, but that would be cool. Both policies are with the same company and probably the same agent. The specialist seems to be familiar with dad's claim too. That means he knows that I pay not so much in "rent" (I pay the property taxes and both insurance policies on the house) I'll definitely start keeping the list. They want it entered online, but I think it might be easier to make a spreadsheet that I can print out and fill out at home and then input later. Any idea how long I have to get these claims filed? I'm guessing that's a state-by-state thing. I'm definitely thinking along the same lines on the car seat. I'm kind of torn on that one because DS is sooo close to using a booster seat instead of a carseat. Actually, DH uses a booster in his car but I still have him in a 5-point car seat in mine. Which reminds me, I haven't seen the booster seat since then either. The tarping was done by the company that is handling the trees and probably the reconstruction so that's already being billed to dad's claim. The laminate flooring was done by DH and I. The install was....good enough but not excellent. Which brings us to the second phone call. It was from one of the water restoration places you were talking about. Apparently my local agent contacted them about coming to pick up whatever needs to be picked up and seeing what they can do with it and possibly the floor. Maybe they can save the subfloor. I'm pretty sure there's old-school asbestos tile beneath the carpet in my bedroom so that should be fun. They will be here sometime tomorrow. Hopefully they can also save my couch since it matches the loveseat that was on the other side of the room from the hole. ETA: This whole experience has been weird. It's like yeah, it sucks but we're okay. We've got this. We've had people coming around for days trying to give us food and water and snacks and other stuff. It is very appreciated (especially the coffee fairy who came around the first day before we could be cut out of our driveway and the Duracell truck who drove around giving out batteries). We've had a lot of offers from people who have bobcats to move trees and stuff. My kid's school counselor has offered to have him declared homeless so that school lunch will be paid for for the rest of the year (I'm turning that down because I'd already put money in his account for the semester back in January). I'm not entirely sure the vet would charge for boarding if I didn't insist on it. I just feel like I've got this insurance and we're really not that bad off so I don't want to take it, but some stuff I feel bad turning down. Edited by Sugaree, Mar 23 2018, 12:42 PM.
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| Mukta | Mar 23 2018, 03:05 PM Post #14 |
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Anchor Baby
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I have no advice, but I am so glad you guys are ok. That is terrifying. |
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| Pooby Butt | Mar 23 2018, 03:15 PM Post #15 |
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Glad to hear everything is plugging along. Time wise to finalize claim, it can vary from company to company, subject to state's rules. Not sure what Missouri is, but my company gives 2 years, whereas most companies give 1 year. Food loss-yes, that's usually covered. Sorry, I forgot about making a mention on food loss. I'm not really up on what water restoration companies can do regarding building damage. But, remember, even if the company does do a restoration of the flooring and your dad (or you) aren't happy, you do have the right to request it to be replaced. Insurance is to bring you back to where you were prior to the loss, so if it's buckled or warped, you do have that right. Not saying that the insurance company won't balk some at it, but you do have that right. Just remember, many (mine included) pay the damages to the policy holder, and it's up to the policy holder to hire competent contractors, which it sounds like you are doing. I've had people upset before because Company paid them for their loss, then they go hire some Joe Smoe to do the repair work, and does shoddy work or takes the money and runs. It sucks, but that's not the insurance's fault. Now in water remediation, the thought process is that it's "supposed" to be cheaper for the insurance company to restore instead of replace. Which in many cases it is. But in some cases it just doesn't seem (in my experience) to always be true, but your mileage may vary. You have an agent, you pay his (or her) commission. Use that resource. If you are trying to find a good roofer or drywaller, or whatever, ask your agent before just picking a name off of Facebook or where ever. We may not be able to say "stay away from that guy!" but if they are giving the non-answer, they are telling you to STAY AWAY. We are in small town Missouri. We have less than half a dozen body shops. If you were to ask about the one body shop that while popular, can do some real shoddy work, AND just touches the line of insurance fraud, while we can't come out and say that, we will direct you in some way. I may say, "well, we've had SOME people happy with their work. But Agent has had work done by Shops A or B and has been very happy with their work, and they've been in business for many years". So while we can't come out and say not to use that shop, we try to indirectly steer you to a more reputable shop. Oh, and the place that I'm talking about above? We bought a truck from someone that had just had work done to the truck by said body shop. It was shit work. DH had to go over and level the bumper (it wasn't even on straight) tighten a BUNCH of screws that weren't even finger tight. And had a bunch of other piddly shoddy work done to it. Needless to say, I won't every use them. Same for contractors. We will gladly give the names of several people, and we happily give the name of the best roofer here in town; they did my roof after our major catastrophe and did an excellent job. Be very very VERY wary of the people who will descend on your town (likely have already) that come from elsewhere trying to make a quick buck. We literally had a stack, nearly an inch thick, of these type of people who came by to give us their name. The only way we would even consider talking to them is if they had insurance. And the ones whose policies were started within the last day? Stay away. Our city requires proof of insurance to issue a business license. You would not believe how many people asked to get insurance for one day so they could get their "proof" of insurance. The idiots actually fessed up to only wanting it for a day or 2 just to get their license. We did get their names, to give to the city to not issue a license. |
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| jeni_4 | Mar 23 2018, 04:16 PM Post #16 |
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Not saying don't trust your insurance agent for referrals, but another source can be a local real estate agent, if you have one you trust. |
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| coco | Mar 23 2018, 04:48 PM Post #17 |
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How scary! I am glad you guys are OK. |
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| LapisLazuli | Mar 24 2018, 03:52 AM Post #18 |
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That's really scary, Sugaree, I am so glad you are all safe! I hope your insurance remediation goes smoothly and quickly. I thought of your bees immediately after you and your family but I see you had relocated them a short time ago. Phew! |
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| The Girl From Middle Earth | Mar 24 2018, 04:18 AM Post #19 |
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I am so sorry but glad you are all ok. I am not in insurance but I would just like to say, please document any phones calls - who you spoke to, date and time. Water tight does not mean safe to move back in. If there is water, damp furnishings, furniture, floors - that is not safe. |
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| adrienne | Mar 24 2018, 04:31 PM Post #20 |
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Wow, no help here either except that I'm glad that you and yours are okay. I hope that your recovery works out. |
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| Sugaree | Mar 24 2018, 08:03 PM Post #21 |
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Thanks everyone. We're back in the hotel after a very, very long day. The community outpouring has been great. There have been something like 1200 volunteers a day yesterday and today. In a town of less than 30k people. I think 5 different people came by last night offering us dinner. A tree came down on FIL's house last night. Luckily, no major damage, but a broken window pane that we had to fix. To top it all off today DS is getting sick and I got bit by the neighbor's dog. Now I'm ensconced back in my hotel room waiting on my Thai food delivery. |
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| DaniCalifornia | Mar 25 2018, 01:29 PM Post #22 |
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Flood affected resident here If you have to dispose of electronics or anything with a serial number, photograph that serial number and bar code as well as the whole item. If you think something (like a couch) may be unsafe to keep (flooded and may mold), list it. Don't ask if it is. Say it is. They may deny it anyway, but there's at least a chance of coverage. You have a little kid. You can't take a chance on mold. Insulation wicks water up. So if the insulation got wet, the walls likely have to be cut. Sheetrock comes in 8x4 sheets. So if you cut walls to replace Sheetrock or insulation, you cut at 4' or 8'. It's too labor intensive to do less. (We've cut to 4' for 6" of water, which was wicked up to about a 1' or so behind the wall). If you get push back or get denied the amount you need for repairs, you have recourse. I used an in-house advocate service provided by my insurance company. I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I hope repairs go smoothly. Document everything. Absolutely everything. |
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| Sugaree | Apr 3 2018, 07:39 AM Post #23 |
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Dani, how long before I start seeing signs of mold in the sheetrock? The way the roof is damaged and the way the insulation is blown in makes me think that I may have some moisture behind some walls that aren't showing it yet. I met with the adjuster Sunday. He wants to set up another meeting with his boss. I'm okay with that since this guy didn't get up in the attic to look at the rafters, and didn't estimate on any of that. We know that quite a few rafters are broken down the back side of the house and the roof decking looks like Swiss cheese. When we finally found the support post for the carport the corner had to be jacked up two feet in order to get the post back in place, so we know we're going to have some issues there too. I have some concerns about the cracking of the exterior brick where the tree hit. It's getting a little bigger and more cracks seem to be showing up. Electricity is another issue because at one point we had water pouring in from the base of one of the ceiling fans. Any work required to the electrical is going to have to bring it up to code and I don't know for sure that we have that rider. It looks like, at minimum, we're talking about completely gutting the bedroom maybe including the exterior wall (and then trying to match 60 year old brick). New carpet throughout due to it being continuous. New ceilings in the bathroom and den. Sheetrock work + paint in the living room. New back porch. Plus some kind of roof work though it's not clear yet whether that will be a complete reframing job or not. |
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| DaniCalifornia | Apr 3 2018, 09:03 AM Post #24 |
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Mold appearance will depend on your climate and what was in the water. After Irene, we had mild showing up in houses within 2-3 days. By the time the water receded enough to get in and start gutting, there was already mold. In 2010, we didn't gut the house until after the insurance agent got out to us (about 4 or 5 days, I think), and is there was nothing. So be prepared for mold. And make sure the wood framing is sprayed with a mold inhibitor and cleaned thoroughly/allowed to dry thoroughly before being boxed in again. You can't rush that. It has to dry.
Edited by DaniCalifornia, Apr 3 2018, 09:04 AM.
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| Sugaree | Apr 12 2018, 07:11 AM Post #25 |
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So the second inspection was yesterday. It...did not go as well as I'd hoped. He didn't look in the attic to see how many trusses we have cracked. He didn't look at the crack in the crawlspace wall. He acted like my crushed back porch could be fixed with just a 2x6. He said that the bulge in my wall was just settling and couldn't have been caused by the tree because it was too far away to have caused it (the tree laid down all the way down the back of the house and the bulge in the wall is right next to a room that has a hole in the ceiling from a branch). Nevermind the fact that the this is also the room that connects to the carport that sank 2 feet before we could get the support posts back up. I have a feeling this is going to be a long process. I guess the next step is to get the contractor in to get his estimate while we're waiting on the insurance estimate to come back. I'm wondering if it would be worth it to get a structural engineer to come in to look at it. |
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| Cat Fur | Apr 12 2018, 08:44 AM Post #26 |
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The Cat's Pajamas
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I would definitely get some second opinions on the condition of the house. Hurricane Irma damaged my roof and tore down my lanai. I've had three different insurance inspectors and two different contractors. Have had to fight for more money than the original amount the insurance company tried to give me. The first check would not even have covered the roof replacement much less start putting the lanai back up. As of now, the roof is completely replaced and I am waiting (impatiently) for someone to have time in their schedules to get the lanai done. It's been since September 2017, so a good while now. |
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| Sugaree | Apr 12 2018, 08:59 AM Post #27 |
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It's my understanding that the first check is always actual cash value and is usually low. Once the work is done and the invoices submitted then the replacement value check is issued, often directly to the contractor. |
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| Sugaree | Apr 16 2018, 08:02 AM Post #28 |
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The insurance estimate came back this weekend. $77k replacement cost. That includes nearly $20k in tree removal plus the sheds (my beautiful greenhouse ), fences, etc. The house repair came in just under $57k. The contractor that came in yesterday seemed...skeptical...about that. There are a handful of things that he says need to be done that the insurance adjuster didn't pick up (i.e. the contractor wants to take all of the ceilings and most of the sheetrock down where the insurance adjuster has about half the walls and a quarter of the ceiling staying up). Plus who knows what once the sheetrock starts coming off. And no one has addressed the elephant in the room of the way out of date electrical system.So, it looks like we'll be fixing rather than rebuilding. I'm a little disappointed by that, but I'm going to make the best of it. I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on some projects that I've been wanting to do (go figure that the rooms that are going to be completely gutted are the ones that have most recently been updated and the ones that I really wanted to have redone escaped nearly unharmed). Instead of replacing the carpet, I'm going to put in hardwood (and return the laminate I bought just before the storm that hadn't been installed yet). I'm going to enclose the screened in porch and turn it into an all-season gameroom/lounge. Hopefully I'll be able to put a prefab fireplace unit in. Maaaaaybe put a patio/lanai/outdoor kitchen in the back. I've also decided that since I have no trees left that I'm going to replace them with an orchard. My apple trees and peach trees survived so I'm going to add a few more plus some cherry, plum, and maybe pomegranate. |
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), fences, etc. The house repair came in just under $57k. The contractor that came in yesterday seemed...skeptical...about that. There are a handful of things that he says need to be done that the insurance adjuster didn't pick up (i.e. the contractor wants to take all of the ceilings and most of the sheetrock down where the insurance adjuster has about half the walls and a quarter of the ceiling staying up). Plus who knows what once the sheetrock starts coming off. And no one has addressed the elephant in the room of the way out of date electrical system.
10:10 AM Jul 11