| Gatecrashing Hagatha; Long vent but what else is new? | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 9 2018, 04:45 PM (6,828 Views) | |
| Pennies | Apr 9 2018, 04:45 PM Post #1 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| iluvsuomi1989 | Apr 9 2018, 04:50 PM Post #2 |
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(((Hugs))) Pennies. I think you should skip the party and come out with your Peeps this Sunday. We'll throw you a birthday bash! |
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| 2anjuliboys | Apr 9 2018, 04:54 PM Post #3 |
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Hugs and IVY. Hagatha is a nasty piece of work. |
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| DarlingDewey | Apr 9 2018, 04:54 PM Post #4 |
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Coach
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Can he intercede before the party? He may not want to, and it may suck, but he can call her on it before the party, yeah? |
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| monica | Apr 9 2018, 04:59 PM Post #5 |
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I'm with DD. He should call her out and tell her not to come before the party. |
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| Starfish | Apr 9 2018, 04:59 PM Post #6 |
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hammer5ed
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Pennies, I'm so glad to see you standing up for yourself and demanding that your DH manage Hagatha. He'd better not fuck this one up. |
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| Pennies | Apr 9 2018, 05:06 PM Post #7 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| melonbird | Apr 9 2018, 05:12 PM Post #8 |
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I was going to suggest that you go, but if she shows up and he doesn't make her leave, that you leave. But I wouldn't make a fuss, even with him. Just leaving quietly will make a bigger statement. |
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| still nwihim | Apr 9 2018, 05:15 PM Post #9 |
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Will no one escort her ass out? My son had a few friends lined up to act as bouncers if certain undesirables showed up at his wedding. I was one of them. The bouncers, not the undesirable. I had to strong arm my sister out of there. Fun times! |
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| DarlingDewey | Apr 9 2018, 05:20 PM Post #10 |
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Coach
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You shouldn't leave, he should loudly say "Hagatha! What are you doing here so early? This isn't the time we set for your weekly visitation and it's not our meeting place! I'll text you when we are on our way to meet you, after the party." I know that won't happen, and I know all the reasons why, but it's my dream. |
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| Figment | Apr 9 2018, 05:33 PM Post #11 |
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Glad you made that clear! He needs to stand at the door and wait for her Pennies. |
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| Karaokemama | Apr 9 2018, 05:34 PM Post #12 |
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15 years is big metal chickens!
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Pennies, may I gently ask something? I know how upset (and rightfully so!) at her gatecrashing, but I've noticed that you often refer to actions taken by Hagatha or your ILs, and then ascribe a motivation to that action and they can be a bit contradictory. Are these motivations actual fact that you have heard them say? Or are they stories you've told yourself to answer your internal question of "why would they do that?" The reason I ask is that I myself have been guilty of doing that exact thing, and in turn causing myself a great deal of angst and unhappiness, because I was so sunk in the idea of being on the short end of the stick that I honestly could not see that there could be any other possible explanation. For example: Action: At the party, she kept shoving old photos of the kids and DH at me Motivation: to remind me that she's got a tangible link to my ILs that I will never have Action: {Conversation was} was almost exclusively "Remember when...? Wasn't it funny when...? Remember that time...?") Motivation: proceeded to ensure that the conversation excluded me Are you sure her intention was not specifically to exclude you, but rather to force herself to be included? It is possible it's both, but I suspect that it is FAR more about her than it is about you. Then, with the ILs: The action of "everyone got uncomfortable and crowded into Nephew's room to get away from her" does not really mesh with your conclusion of "I can never give my ILs babies the way she did, therefore I'm nothing." The action of "Hag doesn't dare push in with anyone other than SIL because SIL is the family pushover; she knows BIL1 would never put up with her in his own home" tells me your ILs don't much care for her either, and probably tolerate her for your stepsons' sake as her mother. Just based on what I've read I wonder if your ILs are waiting for your DH to manage her. I can tell you from my own experience with a sibling's bat-shit crazy ex spouse that the only person she responded to was him, and nothing from me or my other brother or my parents would have made a dent in her behavior. Regardless, my point was to have you ask yourself "Fact or fiction?" When you tell these stories, are you truly filling in the blanks with facts, or with things you have told yourself must be true because you can't imagine why the answer would be anything else? |
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| coco | Apr 9 2018, 06:04 PM Post #13 |
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Ugh, what a bitch! I'm confused as to why SS's half brothers have any ties to Nephew? Or anyone at the party besides SS? Are you saying she is inviting herself and her two unrelated spawn to nephew's party on the premise that the spawn want to see SS11? |
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| Shotgun Sally | Apr 9 2018, 06:28 PM Post #14 |
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Can your DH talk to his sister about this? I would tell SIL it's Hagatha or you guys. If your DH knows his ex is coming, then you guys will not go at all, and if she shows up, then you guys will leave. I don't think talking to Hagatha herself will do much good. I'm pretty sure she knows your DH does not want her there. |
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| Miss Piggy Fan | Apr 9 2018, 07:25 PM Post #15 |
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You're in a no win situation. You're dh goes and she' ll all over him. You go and she' ll be all over him. He won't say or do anything because "he' ll be to shocked or won't want to make a scene or its his kids mom and doesn't want to upset them by saying anything. " while embarrassing you. This is not the the first or tenth time this happened. He doesn't respect you and his kids see that so they have no respect for you. You deserve to be treated better. |
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| Wannabe Author | Apr 9 2018, 07:42 PM Post #16 |
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How old are Nephew and Hagatha's older spawn? |
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| Gaping Maw | Apr 9 2018, 07:48 PM Post #17 |
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I’m so sorry. I can only imagine how painful this is. But I agree with previous posters. This is absolutely on your DH: he is the one who has to stop being afraid/reluctant to “make a scene” and put a stop to this. He’s so far decided that it’s easier? Better? to hurt YOU/let YOU be hurt vs finding the guts to tell her she’s out of her lane. This kind of disrespect is corrosive to your relationship. Why is he so passive? You deserve better, but this terrible pattern is getting more set in stone by the day. Edited by Gaping Maw, Apr 9 2018, 09:35 PM.
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| helent70 | Apr 9 2018, 08:22 PM Post #18 |
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Stirrer of pots.
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I'd just tell her flat out that she is not invited and if she showed up I'd tell her she is not welcome. If she refused to leave i'd call the cops and have her trespassed. |
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| Charybdis | Apr 9 2018, 09:55 PM Post #19 |
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Vicious Sea Monster
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I think the host/home occupant would have to do that, not another guest. |
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| Aqua | Apr 9 2018, 10:12 PM Post #20 |
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Sad Sack Puppy
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Mister Penis needs to shut that shit down. Two years ago. |
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| Gaping Maw | Apr 9 2018, 10:30 PM Post #21 |
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I keep thinking of unhelpful but spitefully satisfying comments to shut H down...stuff along the lines of, hmmmm funny how he had x years and 2 kids with H but never married her, has no kids with Pennies and yet wanted to marry her within a few months of meeting her. Hmmm. Yeah. Not helpful but it is ... interesting, no? |
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| artisticlicense | Apr 9 2018, 11:02 PM Post #22 |
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I'd guess that when Mr Pennies and Hagatha were married, the older sons came along to all the IL family events and hung out with the nephew. |
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| akwaitress | Apr 9 2018, 11:34 PM Post #23 |
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redneck of the north
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Ignore Edited by akwaitress, Apr 9 2018, 11:36 PM.
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| Designing Craft Maven | Apr 9 2018, 11:43 PM Post #24 |
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Designing Craft Maven
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Well you could always go rouge and start squealing " HAGATHA! How ARE you! " Hug her and announce " HEY EVERYONE! LOOK WHO CRASHED THE PARTY! IT IS HAGATHA!" I mean someone squealing and chasing after me would really creep me out, so maybe that would work with her? Like sit thisclose to her every chance you get and make her feel all awkward and stuff. Okay, I probably wouldn't be able to do that without barfing, but then again when you are sitting thisclose to someone, chances are they are the one getting barfed on, so really it is kind of a win, right? No? Well, just an idea anyway. |
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| Gaping Maw | Apr 10 2018, 07:23 AM Post #25 |
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I thought Pennies’ DH and Hag were never married? Maybe I am misremembering. If so, disregard my previous post. |
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| UFS.2 | Apr 10 2018, 07:53 AM Post #26 |
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suomi says +1 |
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| Aqua | Apr 10 2018, 08:57 AM Post #27 |
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Sad Sack Puppy
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I feel like this bears repeating. I know it sucks to have people point at your dh but he really does seem to be trying to be a good guy at your expense. What happened to being a good guy for his wife? |
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| Pennies | Apr 10 2018, 11:25 AM Post #28 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| Starfish | Apr 10 2018, 11:33 AM Post #29 |
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hammer5ed
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Thinking about this more: the older half-siblings must be at least teenagers if SS14 is 14. Could they not come on their own without requiring an escort from their mother? Secondly, if DH can't manage Hagatha on his own; can he enlist support from BIL3, who (if I read correctly) is actually hosting the party? I am so grateful that my DH nipped this shit in the bud with Frankunstein very very early on. Sending vibes to your DH. |
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| TulipWorthy | Apr 10 2018, 11:36 AM Post #30 |
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Happily dancing in the tulips
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Sending you big hugs Pennies. The only advice I can give you is to keep staying classy. |
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| Pennies | Apr 10 2018, 11:44 AM Post #31 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| Potatochiplady | Apr 10 2018, 12:05 PM Post #32 |
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The only positive I can see to any of her actions is that it seems fairly clear that everyone else also sees that her behavior is pathetic and a ridiculous attempt at attention whoring. I know that doesn't take away the sting of her presence, but at least the rest of the family isn't totally snowed by her actions. I do wish they would stand up to her more, but considering they know what a bitch she is, I can understand them playing "nice" to maintain access to the kids - at least until the youngest 2 are old enough in a few more years to maintain contact with family on their own. I'm sorry she's trying to piss on you yet again, Pennies. |
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| Aardi | Apr 10 2018, 12:11 PM Post #33 |
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Book Pimp
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Two things leaped out at me: the fact that your DH was a stepdad (I didn't know that) and that you feel like you're nothing to the ILs because you didn't give them babies. With the first, I am really irritated that he's allowed you to be treated the way you have by the boys because he knows what it's like to be a stepparent. With the second, is it your upbringing that's making you feel this way? I wish you wouldn't feel that you're nothing. You're an amazing person and you ARE a mother. Just because you didn't give birth to your stepsons doesn't mean you haven't been their parent. You've been a better parent than their bio ones. I don't know if I could have stepped up the way you have. |
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| PolarBearIce | Apr 10 2018, 12:19 PM Post #34 |
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No question about Hagatha's motives. I could be wrong, but to me it sounded like Karaoke was speaking about the motives/difficulties of your in-laws. They have been dealing with The Hag all these years while wanting to keep a relationship with the kids & your DH. I understand your DH feeling he is in between a rock and a hard place. Like you said, he's had to go through a lot just to keep his kids in his life. And as difficult as it is, by accepting DH with 2 kids in your life you also took on some of his baggage. He has been locked into a cycle on what has (sort of kinda) been working for him - keeping The Hag at a low simmer. You want him to break that cycle. He's afraid if he steps out he will release The Hag in full force. You married a wounded man in a broken family. He obviously needs to man up and choose the hard place, but it's not surprising he is afraid to do so - he doesn't want to loose a relationship with his kids or make their life any harder. He needs to understand he is not alone facing this. He needs to realize he can tap into your strength and you guys can take this on standing shoulder to shoulder. The kids are getting old enough to know a bit of what's going on - although they should not be asked to choose between sides - they should be allowed to choose both sides without repercussion. You feel like the bad guy and unloved because, quite frankly, a wife should not have to insist on her position being honored. Anyone would feel this way. You and DH are going to have to find a way to deal with this together - understanding where each is coming from. Your loyalty to him should empower him. And his love to you should empower you. ETA: when she does gate-crash (and she will) even if you can't do anything but take it, you two need to have knowing looks/nods/sighs/eye rolls to each other. You should hang together, smile & laugh together, even a passing touch of fingertips. You have your special world that is not affected (or if it is it is strengthened) by her. Edited by PolarBearIce, Apr 10 2018, 12:27 PM.
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| Starfish | Apr 10 2018, 12:24 PM Post #35 |
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hammer5ed
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All I can say to this, is our life got exponentially easier once DH was able to cut out the gatekeeper and communicate with the kids directly. The 2 half-siblings knew your DH as their Stepdad? Then have DH communicate to them directly and make arrangements for them to meet up on transit with you, because Hagatha isn't invited, and isn't required "for safety" as DH will be their "chaperone". Take away her space to manipulate; it's the first, achievable step for your DH to ultimately excise her. Edited by Starfish, Apr 10 2018, 12:25 PM.
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| Pennies | Apr 10 2018, 12:32 PM Post #36 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| Starfish | Apr 10 2018, 12:47 PM Post #37 |
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hammer5ed
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DH needs some therapy because this is some seriously faulty logic. Your DH's actions don't make Hag take it out on the kids; she CHOOSES to be abusive to the kids. I mean, hasn't DH been toeing the line for how long now? Not making waves. Not enforcing boundaries. Has Hag stopped being awful to her children? No. Because DH has zero control over what happens in her house. However, your DH can control what happens in YOUR house, and if SIL is the family is such a pushover; then DH as brother-in-law should push harder than the ex-babymomma of a brother-in-law. Don't allow DH to gaslight you into believing there's nothing he can do. He's choosing to do nothing. Big difference. |
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| PolarBearIce | Apr 10 2018, 12:50 PM Post #38 |
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And there is the rub - the whole crux of where you disagree and what makes you both respond differently. Your DH's feelings/sensibilities would be crushed if he was in the same position as SS11, so he doesn't want to put him there. You understand it is painful for SS11, but like exercise, that pain will eventually diminish and the ultimate goal will be achieved. So DH sees you as cold and you see DH as spineless. You guys have to figure this one out. It could be the wedge that blows it apart. |
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| Karaokemama | Apr 10 2018, 12:52 PM Post #39 |
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15 years is big metal chickens!
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Polarbear Ice absolutely said this way better than me. I absolutely get that Hagatha's motivations are to be as nasty to you as possible and poison any good opinion your inlaws and stepsons may have of you in order to cement the hold she is rapidly losing on them. Make no mistake that hold IS slipping with every day the boys age. Her motivations are about her more than you because I feel very confident that any woman your DH took up with would be subjected to the same treatment. As for your ILs, I definitely think that those motivations should be inspected closely. I'm sad and heartbroken for you that in one breath you say they think you are nothing because you can't have biological grandbabies/nieces/nephews, but in the other you say they actively gravitated towards your location to get away from her. So that's what made me think about the whole "fact or fiction" thing. I got it from reading a book for work called "Crucial Conversations." That's really where I was coming from - that I hope you can re-examine the motives and meaning behind your IL's actions and see that you are loved and valued. I "hear" the pain and anguish in your "voice" every time you post about your chosen family and I remember how you posted about how your FOO treated you. I know you are a wonderful caring mother to those boys and wife to your DH - and take far better care of them than they might appear to "deserve" given their treatment of you in turn. I just want you to be able to get even the smallest glimmer of hope and support you can get to manage this horrible situation. I'll spoiler this in case you don't care or want to read now - I don't want to hijack the thread but wanted to share my own personal experience that made "fact or fiction" relevant to me. I'm a storyteller at heart and when I don't have the info to fill in the blanks, I search for things to fill them with. Upon examination of a painful situation, I realized that those blanks were not necessarily filled with actual facts, but with information I inferred based on my observations and past experiences. Spoiler: click to toggle In the end, I just want you to know that like many peeps, I want you to be happy and have the life you want and deserve. |
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| Pennies | Apr 10 2018, 01:12 PM Post #40 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| coco | Apr 10 2018, 03:46 PM Post #41 |
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How did Hagatha get wind of the party arrangements? I agree with everyone who said that it is all about her and her trying to fit in, and mark her territory, small as it is (her sons with DH). And yes, having DH make a scene will make their time with Hagatha miserable - see bitter divorced parents playbook, page 5! I doubt that ANY of your ILs ever even liked her. She sounds dreadful! |
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| Pennies | Apr 10 2018, 04:17 PM Post #42 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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| coco | Apr 10 2018, 04:27 PM Post #43 |
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He's scared of Hagatha, period. Her horrible treatment of the iids keeps him in check...and she knows it. He could at least let his siblings know he would rather dhe NOT be included. |
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| Koalabella | Apr 10 2018, 04:43 PM Post #44 |
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Ugh. I feel for you. Honestly, I'd be surprised if her motivation has much to do with you. Everything she does seems to be a desperate attempt to make herself relevant. Showing pictures of when they were together, being clingy and inappropriate at the graduation, even talking shit about you and making you wait, all seems designed to make her seem like she has a more important role in their lives, either by reminding people of when she did or simply by contrast. I think it's all desperation and pathetic lack of self-worth. It's probably also got a good dose of regret that is easier to handle if she shifts the facts to blaming someone else for the way events unfolded. I know it's easier to say than do, but I would try recasting her actions internally from, "Pissing on her territory," to, "Desperately trying to feel like she matters." Feeling superior to people is more fun than feeling angry about them, anyway. And none of this really matters. She's not convincing anyone she's these childrens' mother. She's not making herself more relevant in their lives. She's not elevating her own status and she has no power to change yours. She's just making herself look as pathetic as she is. And we should point and laugh at her. |
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| Potatochiplady | Apr 10 2018, 04:44 PM Post #45 |
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Does your DH also not realize he's giving his boys a piss poor example of how to stand up for yourself and those you care about? Would it at all resonate with him to know he's teaching his boys how to not be the kind of men that protect their loved ones when faced with egregious behavior? That the behavior he models for them re: Hag has a good chance of being replicated by his sons when they have kids of their own (i.e. it's ok to accept abusive behavior? it's ok to be submissive to abuse? it's ok to not stand up to an asshole?)? |
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| Aardi | Apr 10 2018, 04:53 PM Post #46 |
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Book Pimp
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That could be. I don't want to rag on Mr. McDreamy, as he's your husband and you love him, but he's really dropping the ball in this department. |
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| Pennies | Apr 10 2018, 05:04 PM Post #47 |
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I would agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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[Hidden Content: Login/Register to View] edited for clarity Edited by Pennies, Apr 12 2018, 11:13 AM.
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| Potatochiplady | Apr 10 2018, 05:16 PM Post #48 |
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In my fantasy world, the party is rescheduled by a few hours or a day. The new date and/or time are kept a secret so that when she shows up trying to crash the party everyone can look at her like the nutter she is and then call her out on her BS. You and the kids get their party Hag free, and she gets to look like the ass she is. |
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| still nwihim | Apr 10 2018, 05:28 PM Post #49 |
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I have a question, who is paying for the kid's phone? My response depends on that. |
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| Mules... | Apr 11 2018, 10:04 AM Post #50 |
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IDK why you are letting her have so much head space. She is a hag. She had a life with your DH once upon of time. These are facts. They can’t be changed. Another fact is that you won. You won. You have DH, his family likes you. The boys like you. It must be unbelievablely hard to watch her F with them. But you maintain your integrity and just remind yourself you won. Let her look desperate when she talks about her past. Whatever it’s past.... I promise the guys she drags along don’t want to hear for 3+ hours about how “wonderful “ she and her Ex were. They probably find it irritating and all she is doing is sabotaging her relationship. You have to laugh. She is attempting to “punish “ you but really all she is doing is looking pathetic, alienating her boyfriend, pissing off ILs and slowly but surely the boys will want less and less to do with her. Everytime she tries to screw with you just remember you already won. F her all she is doing is self sabotaging. |
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