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| 4x13 Episode Discussion/Speculation; Episode Discussion/Speculation; Speculate what will happen this episode and then discuss it once it's aired | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 6 2013, 05:41 AM (226 Views) | |
| McCollinsRB | Sep 6 2013, 05:41 AM Post #1 |
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Discuss Season 4, Episode 13 (You Can See the Stars) below. The episode hasn't aired yet, so feel free to speculate on what will happen. Use the spoiler tag for any spoilers-for episode discussion threads spoilers are defined as anything that isn't just speculation. The rule for the episode discussions are that people are allowed to talk about episodes live, so you don't have to use a spoiler tag for any information about the episode (unless you know something that hasn't been broadcast on TV yet). So as soon as the episode starts airing on the Eastern Coast in the US, there is no need for spoiler tags or warnings when you're talking about something you've just seen. People on the West Coast who don't want to be spoiled, just stay clear of that episode discussion until you've seen the episode (there's lots of other areas on the board you can have discussions on-including the previous weeks). After the episode has aired/or while it's airing you can discuss anything about the episode: what you thought about Andy and Nick (this is a McCollins forum of course ;) ), the other characters, the plot lines for the week, what you liked or didn't liked. Go wild, but as always be respectful to each other! |
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| McCollinsRB | Sep 13 2013, 02:41 PM Post #2 |
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Really frustrated and depressed with this episode. Not only did they breakup McCollins, but they flushed all the progress that Andy has made down the tubes. She's been progressing so well these past few episodes with having admitting to wanting an open and honest relationship (I think it 4x10 when she gave Sam that speech) and then he goes and opens up one time while there's a threat looming over their head (I'm talking about Kevin Ford) and it was like she just forgot about all the bad stuff in their relationship. I'm not saying that they couldn't have maybe forgiven each other over time and worked past their differences, but that would have had to have happened over a minimum of a few episodes. A season to be ideal-I still would have been upset but not angry in that case. Andy's gotten to point where she can admit that her relationship with Sam was unhealthy and she's had no problem pointing out his flaws. Yes, she's been drawn to him. But she's been happy with Nick, so I really had a hard time buying that she gravitated back to Sam without a second thought. She's come to far. It was like the writers threw out all of the progress that she's made just so that they could make the reunion viable. And then she went and said the one thing that really hit me in the gut, which was that she felt like nobody knew her better than Sam. It's been shown that time and time again that Nick knows her better than anyone. They can just look at each other with a glance and know what the other one is thinking or predict what the other person is going to need or do ahead of time. You can be in love with someone and not have them know you best-a lot of people have best friends that do. So that felt like a kick in the teeth by the writers, especially since Sam has shown that at least at this point in time he doesn't know her best. He may at some point, but definitely not now. Ugh and that scene with Nick at the end really gutted me. He loves her so much he's willing to watch her be with someone else if that's what's going to make her happy. Peter Mooney did a fantastic job with that scene and Nick's pain really came across. I think in the end, I'm hoping that some space will be good for them. I'm hoping that Andy will see that Nick's there for her no matter what and that he's really the one that she should be with once she gets some closure with Sam. She'll she that Nick offers selfless love, a friendship for a basis of the relationship, open and honesty in a relationship, and no drama. Basically a real future. Other than that, I had a real hard time enjoying the episode. I did sort of enjoy the Chloe storyline. I felt really bad for Dov because I felt he was in the right wanting to operate but not having the authority because of her husband not wanting to. And I was really glad that Oliver turned out to be alright. |
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| Kosmo1987 | Sep 13 2013, 07:26 PM Post #3 |
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Hey, first time poster here! Thanks for making this group, because I really need a McCollins outlet! I agree with pretty much everything you said about the finale. I was absolutely gutted when I saw Nick's face when he was pulling off his vest (which I was really hoping I would get to read btw). Sam really seems to only tell Andy how he feels when she is in danger (holding the grenade, Kevin Ford, etc.) Yeah, it was noble of him to tell Andy that he was going to let her be happy with Nick, but I can't believe that's all it took to convince Andy after he's been an ass to her since the middle of season three. The writers really did seem to ignore everything Andy accomplished this season. I LOVED her this season: sticking up for herself and being independent. Her relationship with Nick was so much healthier than hers and Sam's. She went from telling Sam she wanted to be open (Hello, Nick is more open than any guy I've ever seen) and then jumping back on the Sam ship 3 episodes later. I loved Nick all season, but the way he reacted during this episode made me love him even more. He wanted her to be happy, and was such a standup guy in that situation. I think he must have always feared that he would get his heart broken by the Sam/Andy saga, but like he said to Andy, she was worth the risk. I have been waiting for the inevitable heartbreak for Nick, and it was worse than I thought it would be. I don't see how they can come back from this. Even if Andy doesn't just jump right back into Sam's arms (which I think she will), I don't see Nick being okay with her loving someone else. Anyone else have that weird moment when you couldn't decide if you enjoyed the ambulance scene with McSwarek? I used to LOVE McSwarek until McCollins came around and I saw what a better fit they were. So my little shipper heart was a bit torn, but in the end I just can't see McSwarek the same after McCollins. I even went back and watched some earlier seasons to see if I could get the same feelings I used to from McSwarek, and it just wasn't happening. I just hope that next season they can find a way to make it so McCollins wasn't just a plot device to get Sam and Andy back together. The writers did way too good of a job with McCollins to just sweep it under the rug like that. This is the first time I have ever switched ships in a series I watched; that's how good they did with McCollins. Sorry for the ranting, I just had to get that off my chest! lol |
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| McCollinsRB | Sep 14 2013, 08:51 AM Post #4 |
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Glad to have you here Kosmo1987 and don't worry about ranting lol, sometimes I feel like I'm ranting, other times I feel like I'm writing a novel no one will read. Like you said Nick really is more open than almost any guy you could possibly hope for, so Andy's character growth reversal still baffles me. I've kept trying to get my mind around it, but I keep failing. I just don't get how she could think that Sam being open and honest with her one time during a crisis would mean that he's ready to keep it up in a relationship. He was upset that she had told Nick the truth about what happened with Marlo-that right there says that he still doesn't trust her judgement and doesn't always value honesty in a relationship. That should have been a red flag for her. But it was like she threw all the mistakes and bad judgements out the window at the first sign he was ready to be with her. I would have bought that type of behavior at the beginning of the season, but she's a different person now. In my mind her choosing Sam over Nick (at least the way they did it this episode) is equivalent to saying she doesn't want to grow or be a better person. She's happy settling for things the way they were. The scene with Nick definitely hurt worse than anything I'd imagined (other than writers killing him off). I think they can come back from it though simply because of the type of guy Nick is. With any other guy it wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of working, but Nick truly does seem to love Andy and because he has such a good heart, his love for her is selfless. He'll be there for her no matter how much pain it personally causes him because he'll want to make sure she's happy, healthy, and safe. I think he realizes that he's got no future with her if she doesn't get closure with Sam, so he'll let her go and be there for her as a friend. Not many guys could stay friends in that situation, but I'll bet he pulls it off. Then she'll realize her mistake and be able to start a relationship with him again, but be much more invested without the baggage of Sam. And he'll most likely wait because I truly believe he sees her as his soulmate. If he doesn't that's just the writers making a plot device to create drama.
Reading this it was like hearing a bing go off in my head. You just nailed probably my number one sore spot (there are a lot-especially after this episode, but this is at least in the top three for sure). I HATE feeling like the writers devised McCollins as a plot device to get Sam and Andy back together. It pisses me off so much because I picture a conversation between the writers going somewhat like this: "Hmmm, we need something to keep Sam and Andy apart for a whole season. We can't have them reunited too soon after all" "Well we could give them love interests." "Ok, we'll bring in someone new for Sam, but what about Andy?" "Why not Nick?" "Well what if some of the fans actually like them?" "That's the point. They'll sell it just enough people will enjoy it. But everybody loves Sam and Andy, so when we reunite them people will be overjoyed and forget all about Nick and Andy." Now as my eyes bug out somewhat as I picture this conversation :P I try to stamp down my anger. This is obviously overdramatized, but my point is that I feel like the writers didn't ever really stop to consider that Nick and Andy would gain some real traction in the fandom and have fans just as passionate as the McSwarek fans. The writers said they knew this was going to happen, but I just don't believe it. Especially after that episode |
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| Kosmo1987 | Sep 14 2013, 11:25 AM Post #5 |
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I absolutely believe that Nick thinks of Andy as his soulmate and he won't just move on. Like he said, he's got all the time in the world and he'll wait. I don't think I could handle seeing him with a new love interest. I could definitely see them going the friend route until Andy realizes her mistake. On any other guy it would seem pathetic, but somehow Nick can pull it off. Also, can we talk about the scene where she was sitting there crying and she said, "I'm sorry"? One, Missy played that really, really well and two, Nick's response of "Don't be" was perfect to me. It's like he was saying don't be sorry for loving someone; I understand. Any other guy could have said that same line and came across as bitter and jealous, but he just seemed to understand that Andy is hurting, but she is also upset that her worry for Sam is hurting Nick. He knows what kind of person she is, and I feel like he respects her for it. Wouldn't he be worried if Gail was shot? On the same page though, I couldn't help but think that Nick never cried when he ended things with Gail, but he cried here. That is pretty telling to me... he was only with Andy for a short time, but she made such an impact on him that he reacted more strongly to the idea of losing her than he did with Gail. |
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| dream | Sep 18 2013, 10:49 AM Post #6 |
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I love reading the thoughts from you guys and I totally agree. I was really annoyed with this episode. Sam saying that he was leaving because Andy was happy with Nick really pissed me off. He flaunted Marlo in front of Andy all the time and she put up with it even though it hurt her, she still did her job. Sam was supposed to stay put at the station and he once again decides he's going to do whatever he wants to do and leave because he's jealous of Nick. Meanwhile, his girlfriend is still inside the building too. I felt like Sam had no right to say that to Andy, I realize it was all for the plot, but still. I don't think it counts as Sam being open and honest because if all he really cared about was Andy's happiness wouldn't he have handled it the same way Andy handled he and Marlo? And then the ambulance scene makes me completely crazy because I feel like all of Andy's growth gets flushed down the toilet. Sam's her story?! Andy has shown us all season that she can be independent, strong, and happy without Sam, so why is Sam her story? I feel like it makes it sound like she needs a man to validate herself, and that Sam does that for her. And the more loved and more known thing, ugh. Like you, I've seen Nick who has been a best friend to her all season and even as her break-up buddy last season be more intuitive and understanding of what's going on with Andy. All I ever saw was Sam confused by Andy all four seasons. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Nick knows her and gets her more than Sam. I think that Nick loves her more than Sam ever could too. I would have preferred to see Sam try to fight for Andy and Andy appear conflicted rather than have Sam stomping out like a jealous child then when he gets shot have Andy look like all she wants is Sam. Ugh...so frustrating. On a happier note, though, did you guys see Missy's tweets the day after the finale? She says that Andy and Nick are not broken up, and that she believes they are definitely not done just yet. Anyway, there are a lot of tweets and she gives a lot of hope. You guys should totally check it out!
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| Chrissy | Sep 19 2013, 11:14 AM Post #7 |
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Thanks for that, I haven't looked at Twitter since the finale because of all the McSwarek fans that were so LOUD! This is not the right thread to mention this in but for all of you that write McCollins fanfic, PLEASE CONTINUE!!! I will read and enjoy it all! I think we all may need it to get us through the next 9 months. |
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| McCollinsRB | Sep 22 2013, 12:40 AM Post #8 |
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I'm glad that I'm not the only person that thinks that Nick sees Andy as his soulmate. And I totally agree that Nick is probably one of the only guys on TV that could pull off not dating anyone else and not making it seem pathetic. It's just a matter of the writers writing it correctly. I truly believe that Nick's not your average type of guy. And by that I mean that most guys would do one of several things. One thing would be that they would try and date someone else to try and make the person they love purposely jealous. But Nick would never want to make Andy's life more complicated or cause her pain. The other thing a lot of people do is go on rebounds, but I truly don't think Nick's that type of guy either. I know a couple of years ago I was in love with one of my friends and I went on one date to try to move on and realized that there was no way I could date anybody else because it wouldn't be fair to the other person. I'm a relationship type of person and there was no way I could do a rebound and I knew just from that one date I needed to try to move on on my own before I started dating. I think Nick's that type of person to-he wouldn't want to hurt anybody else trying to move on with them because he knows he wouldn't be able to and it wouldn't be fair to them. Hopefully the writers don't screw it up. I think it would be awesome if they showed Andy and Nick staying friends, but made it clear that it was difficult for Nick because he was still in love with Andy. And that he was waiting for her because he did see her as his soulmate. I'd be alright if they had him go on one date like mid season (like somebody else set him up) and he immediately realized that he couldn't be with anybody else because Andy was his soulmate, so he apologizes and leaves and decides to wait for Andy no matter how long it takes. It would be even more awesome if Andy got jealous (but it would have to be a situation where Nick didn't intend to make her jealous).
I think that's totally true. Throughout the whole season there's been signs that Nick cared for Gail, but she was never really his one true love. The webisode where he was talking to his therapist and he told her he always felt like running away from Gail, but he repeatedly told Andy that he had all the time in the world and that he wasn't going anywhere. Also when he was writing on his vest he told Chris that some of the guys in his unit used to write on their vests to loved ones, but the way he said it seemed to indicate he never had before that point. That to me seems to say that he never really had someone he considered a loved one before Andy.
Have to totally agree with you dream. This was one thing I totally didn't get about the McSwarek shippers. They said that Sam telling Andy that he only wanted her to be happy was the same as her telling him that she knew when to give up fighting (in regards to his and Marlo's relationship). But I just don't agree with that argument because in my opinion Andy truly did let go, wanted Sam to be happy, and decided to just move on without any drama. In the scene where she decided to let she was at peace with the situation; when Sam said he he wanted her to be happy he was running away, frustrated, and causing drama. If he truly loved her and wanted her to be happy, he should have just sucked up the situation like she had and said nothing (just said nothing). Nick showed what it meant to truly love somebody when he let her go at the hospital. It obviously hurt him like hell, but instead of being selfish or jealous (he easily could have said no I need you when Andy hesitated) he told the nurse that Andy was the one person that should be with Sam. He sucked it up, so that she wouldn't be torn and be in even more pain than she already was. That's true love-selflessly putting the person you love before yourself no matter how it affects you.
Yeah I still REALLY hate the more known thing. I was watching one of the earlier episodes this season and Sam and Andy were talking. Andy said to Sam something like "I want us to be friends" and Sam said, "I thought we were friends." That right there says so much about their relationship-they're on different wavelengths. They were partners at work, then lovers, but they were never really friends in my opinion and the fact that Sam thought that they were says a lot about him-he expects a lot less from friendships and relationships than she does IMO. Nick and Andy can understand each other with just a single look. Even in the finale, Nick understood that Andy was upset that she couldn't go out to go rescue Oliver and that was communicated with just a glance. And if there is a miscommunication, which isn't often, they talk about it. Andy was so confused by Sam so many times and they fought so much, so personally I'd think that at some point she'd look back at that moment and wonder why she felt like Sam knew her so well. Not to mention that at some point I'd think she'd feel Nick knew her better than anyone. And I totally agree about her feeling that Sam's her story. I don't know why she can't feel that her life as a cop is a story or that her friends are her story. She had so many ups and downs (more downs if we're being truthful) with him that I can't help but feel that at least at this point in time that if that were my life it'd be a pretty sucky story. I'd understand her saying that if they patched things up and they were engaged in a couple years, but like you said she's been so happy on her own, confident, and independent that it just doesn't make any sense. Even as a die hard McCollins shipper it wouldn't make sense if she said it about Nick.
Yes I did I think I let out a little squeal when I saw it! I was so upset during the finale because I thought that they were just going to end relationship with the I'm sorry scene, which was part of the reason I was so pissed off. Nick and Andy have communicated so much throughout the whole season and they built up the relationship so much that I was so upset to think that they were just going to have Andy run to Swarek without a real discussion simply because Nick knows how Andy feels about Sam. But Missy's tweets make me think that once the crisis passes she'll end up with Sam, but it won't be the simple decision everyone thinks it's going to be. We'll get a talk between Nick and Andy and she'll be somewhat torn. I think the writers are finally acknowledging how split the fanbase actually is
I'm working on my fic. It's been slow going because this week I've had lots of medical testing, which has really worn me out too much to write. I've mentioned it here once or twice before but the doctors just learned I have severe adrenal fatigue and hormone deficiency. It's been going on for five years, but they just diagnosed it, so hopefully they can figure out how to treat it soon Anyway I'm not telling you this to get sympathy, but just to explain my lack of updates. If they do treat it, I'll be cranking out updates and fics like crazy but if not I'll probably only release an update every week to two weeks First I apologize for the novel I wrote above. I get rolling on writing about McCollins and it gets hard to stop Second. I just wanted to mention that I wrote a tutorial on how to post multi-quote comments in the tutorial section of the board. If you're not sure what I mean by multi-quote, it's what I did above where I posted multiple quotes with people's usernames in the quotes. Anyway if you don't know how to do it and you're interested take a look in the tutorial section. |
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| Chrissy | Sep 22 2013, 01:48 AM Post #9 |
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After reading your "novel" I got the idea that since the writers don't know what they are going to do next season and that finale made NO sense after watching the previous 12 episodes, maybe they did that to give the McSwarek shippers something to grasp on to. Season 3 finale definitely did not. But they all jumped aboard this finale and acted like it was something that was totally coming. Which was not based on previous episodes...even Sam saw how happy she was so why would they screw that up so quickly and revert story lines back? What they don't notice is that Sam and Marlo have yet to break up, clearly they will but they haven't. Since they are picking up pretty much where they left off so much more is up in the air and they won't be able to gloss over everything and explain it away in the first 10 mins like usual. I will be very disappointed if McCollins is over right away and McSwarek starts again. Sam has clearly not grown up at all or worked on his communication, how long ago did he tell Oliver how he felt and didn't say anything to anyone else? Ugh! That final was so frustrating especially after watching the hour that preceded it.
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| McCollinsRB | Sep 22 2013, 02:24 AM Post #10 |
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I have to agree that it felt more like they were trying to appease the McSwarek shippers and making sure that they returned next season. I know that a lot of people who like Sam and Andy were threatening to stop watching the show if things didn't turn around. In some ways I get that mindset, but in other ways I really don't. I'm the type of person who really loves romances (and I fall hard for ships-although I've fallen harder for McCollins than any other ship), but if I fall for a ship it's because I love the characters too. Just because my ship breaks up doesn't mean I'm going to stop watching the show. Especially a show like Rookie Blue, where there are so many other great characters (Oliver, Dov, Chris, etc). The one thing that does piss me off is when characters act out of character and that's part of the reason why the finale pissed me off so much. I actually talked to a few McSwarek shippers and they even admitted to me that they were bothered by how fast the reunion happened and that while they were happy that it seemed that Andy and Sam were back together, it made them unhappy that Andy was acting out of character with how she'd been all season. I know if McSwarek was my ship, I'd be at least slightly unhappy because they undid all of Andy's character's growth just to make them getting back together make sense. I'm hoping the writers realize that the fanbase is split down the middle. At least in the latest interview Tassie Cameron did it was the first time she didn't reiterate McSwarek was endgame and she said even the writers are split down the middle of who Andy should end up with. I'm hoping they realize that the fanbase is pretty evenly split (50/50) at this point and if they definitively have her end up with Swarek they could end up alienating alot of fans. They're in a very tough spot. I don't think they anticipated the fans being quite this split and this passionate. |
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