Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]

The Lord of the Black Lands bids thee, welcome. To post in the forum you need to create an account here
Dark Lord Sauron

Gothmog Jaimbern


Regional Summary

Ash nazg durbatulûk
"One ring to rule them all".



Useful Links

Mordor NS


Discord Chat Channel



Once you have an account you must request Denizenship here
The fires of Mordor are burning brightly once more, join the discussion here

News:
Greetings, and welcome to Mordor. We hope you enjoy your visit.

At the moment you are viewing our forum as guest. This means much of the forum is hidden to you and you are unable to use many of the features. To be able to post in forum and apply for citizenship you must register an account with your nation name.

Once you have done that you can apply for citizenship and get the appropriate access to the whole forum!

So what are you waiting for?

Join our community!

If you require diplomatic status as an envoy from another region, apply for diplomatic status here

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1
Atheists and Morality
Topic Started: Nov 14 2012, 10:40 AM (283 Views)
Sauron
Member Avatar
Saruman
Are Atheists morally bankrupt? Since they have nothing to base their beliefs on are they inherently bad?

Discuss
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Karputsk
Member Avatar
Mumakil
I am of the opinion that morality is not the outcome of any religious scripture, it is instead the result of certain evolutionary truths linked to our desire for the preservation/growth of our race. Nor is morality absolute, our definitions on the subject change from country to country and region to region. Additionally they change over time, one need only examine our attitude towards gays nowadays to understand that. So there is an element of social evolution, also.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Alancar
Member Avatar
I'm a magical princess from another dimension
I find that the lack of accountability that accompanies the lack of religious belief to be a cesspool of immoral behaviour.

For example: I'm an atheist and I totally shagged your mother last night.

Would I have done it if I believed I would be held accountable for my actions? ...in fairness, probably yes, cause she is a totally hot bitch
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Sauron
Member Avatar
Saruman
Lol. What happens if the Mother isn't attractive?

So morality is based upon consequences of ones actions? You sleep with my mother, and do so because there is no consequence for your actions?



Karp, most Western and pretty much all countries are based off a religious belief. Even through evolution as in the UK, it is based on the Christian doctrine to a large extent and our beliefs are an evolution of that. So our morality is ingrained from there.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Alancar
Member Avatar
I'm a magical princess from another dimension
Sauron
Nov 14 2012, 07:57 PM
What happens if the Mother isn't attractive?
Why don't you ask yours?

PS. To Sauron's mother: I'm sorry, I'm sure you are a lovely lady, but he set himself up
Edited by Alancar, Nov 14 2012, 08:49 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Jahmurai
Member Avatar
Azog Soulreaver
I believe that even atheist believe, its not because they (i) dont brelieve in a god or higher force that I dont believe. In belgium most of the people are christian. But they dont go all to church for example. There is also a big difference in the same religion the extremists who might be a bit to hard for themselves and others and the less religious christians. Atheists also believe in something, but not in a god, so they believe probably in the scientific proof like the shape of human/ earth...
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Karputsk
Member Avatar
Mumakil
What I am saying is that morality would and has developed without the concept of a God or religion. For example it is immoral to murder because it goes against our evolutionary instinct to preserve and grow our species. I am not denying that organised religion (as any major ideological movement would) has had an effect on our moral evolution but to suggest that it is the foundation of our morality is very incorrect. Morality isn't divined from the Heavens, it's based upon our desire to preserve and grow the Human race.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Jahmurai
Member Avatar
Azog Soulreaver
I believe the extremistsx of a religion have most of the time less morality theb atheists


You rolled a: 10!
Edited by Jahmurai, Nov 15 2012, 10:45 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Aule
Member Avatar
The White Hand
Karputsk
Nov 15 2012, 06:48 AM
What I am saying is that morality would and has developed without the concept of a God or religion. For example it is immoral to murder because it goes against our evolutionary instinct to preserve and grow our species. I am not denying that organised religion (as any major ideological movement would) has had an effect on our moral evolution but to suggest that it is the foundation of our morality is very incorrect. Morality isn't divined from the Heavens, it's based upon our desire to preserve and grow the Human race.
I agree with the overall sentiment but your whole 'murder goes against our evolution' thing is a bit simplistic. Murder and violence is obviously a behaviour that can be beneficial and selected for precisely because it exists- it's prevalence in our societies dictates that it cannot be as a result of some freak mutation or gene.

Whether murder is counter-evolutionary or not is entirely dependent on context and situation.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Karputsk
Member Avatar
Mumakil
I'll concede it is over simplistic. I should of posted a link to Christopher Hitchens or Sam Harris who no doubt could have explained it more eloquently than myself.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
FirePath867
Member Avatar

I don't believe that evolution is real, it can't be knowing of how many people have genuine kindness toward each other, plus believing in evolution means the only thing you care about should be having babies, not making money which most humans want more of than babies. Then it comes across healthcare systems, a large majority of them were created by religious organizations, and yet people who don't believe in God are going to them. If you break it down, we wouldn't be where we are with out God, we would just be another animal on this planet, fighting to have sex and move on with our lives. Morality doesn't come from religious or non-religious places, it comes from it being built into us, you can't tell me that doing something good is easier or funner than doing something bad. If we didn't have morals built into us we wouldn't have a conscience or the ability to choose right from wrong, we are the only species that goes against the grain on a singular scale. We are not ants bent on surviving the species, some people are that way, but others want to help, other want to just be famous and be known. A single ant can never be known to his fellow workers as a good worker or savior of the colony, but someone like us can make it to the top of a ladder.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

After being too lazy to read everyone's response, I shall say my own and start reading from there. I believe that most religions were founded on the idea that people wanted to deter motives for harm. In example. If I have a store that sells apples, and you want an apple, what better way to make you not steal the apple than saying that there is a being(s) that frown(or in some cases enjoy) upon your actions and due to those actions you shall be punished(or rewarded) with eternal suffering(or oodles of goodness) that cut down the theft of apples by 40%

However, most atheists I know are dicks. I prefer people with a religion(almost any religion)
Quote Top
 
Cacti
No Avatar

If the only reason someone won't murder someone is because of fear of punishment from a higher being that supposedly created the universe, there is something terribly wrong with that person.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Sauron
Member Avatar
Saruman
But where does that fear stop. I mean, if I want to steal, I'm very hungry see a store and take some food and run off, but the only thing preventing me from doing so is the fear that I will be smite by god. Isn't that a good thing?
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Cacti
No Avatar

Sauron
Dec 4 2012, 11:34 AM
But where does that fear stop. I mean, if I want to steal, I'm very hungry see a store and take some food and run off, but the only thing preventing me from doing so is the fear that I will be smite by god. Isn't that a good thing?
I don't think their is anything wrong in believing in G-d and if it stops them doing bad things, great, I was just saying this is something wrong with someone if the only reason they wouldn't harm or kill someone was a fear from a higher being, then there is something wrong with them.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Alatar of the Istari
Member Avatar
Alatar The lost Istari
I know this is kinda off topic. But personally I dislike atheists, some of the more radical ones always seem to want everybody to be atheist, so they spread their opinion, but when they get to the point where they offend me, it becomes personal. If you heard about the sign they put up in New York, its fairly offensive. Also they tried to keep children from watching Charlie Brown! I seriously respect atheists, but when they go too far..... I won't put up with it.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
PhDre
Member Avatar

Alatar of the Istari
Dec 12 2012, 10:04 PM
But personally I dislike atheists, some of the more radical ones always seem to want everybody to be atheist, so they spread their opinion
Aren't many prothletizing religions like that? I know Mormons, Christians, Muslims, etc. who would like others to follow their personal belief. Aren't we prothelizing for Universal or Private Health Care, for Free Market vs. Mixed Economy? Our lives are partly defined through conflict between our own beliefs and the beliefs of others.

Quote:
 
, but when they get to the point where they offend me, it becomes personal. If you heard about the sign they put up in New York, its fairly offensive. Also they tried to keep children from watching Charlie Brown! I seriously respect atheists, but when they go too far..... I won't put up with it.


There are examples of all sorts of radical religious individuals doing things that aren't fairly offensive, but extremely offensive (Westboro Baptist Church, etc.). I think the difference (in my opinion) between a religious individual being offended at a non-religious person 'going too far' and a religious person 'going too far' is that fundamentally, the non-religious person is 'farther' from your perspective of reality. From someone without faith, all religious groups and people that 'go too far' fit that role of being very far from our own perspective of reality.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
PhDre
Member Avatar

FirePath867
Nov 16 2012, 04:49 PM
believing in evolution means the only thing you care about should be having babies
Evolution is a scientific theory that does not beget a world view - the conclusion "the only thing I should care about is having babies" is not part of the evolutionary theory however biologically, yes it does seem that the major goal for most all organisms is procreation.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Barrowhaven
Member Avatar
Warg-Rider
I think morals have more to do about the person then their religion. I am Atheist, and yet you won't find me being rude about it, and I let other people believe what they want to believe. In fact around most people I use the term agnostic, because you tell some people you don't believe in a god and they make it there mission to convert you and it's annoying. But as agnostic they just think your lazy, which I can live with. Yes, I do use a lot of scientific theories and terms when talking about the world, but that doesn't make me a jerk. It's simply a different way of looking at the same thing. I am the first to admit religion has helped form are moral system in major ways too. Without them our morals would indeed be very different, but just because your religious or not doesn't make you moral. I grew up in towns where every kid was dragged to church by their parents, and those kids identify themselves as Christians. Some of them where some of the worst bullies away from church you could imagine. Morals is more than just what religion or if you follow a religion but there about what values you believe in personally. I am an atheist. I also follow the rules, do as I'm told, and go out of my way to help people. Because that's what I was taught as a kid was the right things to do. Some atheist are jerks, but there are also jerks that identify within the different religions. I will admit that the idea of being held non-accountable means the ratio is somewhat higher in Atheist it seems, but that's still about the person not the lack of faith.
Offline Profile Quote Top
 
Deleted User
Deleted User

I mostly agree with barrow haven for me it was about the morales of that religion my family r all hard core Christians so that's how I was raised but then I met this really nice lady that gave me a free hot chocolate I was little like 4 and was in a book store and I said r u Christian? and she said no I was shocked this lady was really nice and she didn't believe in god and she didn't sprout wings or grow horns or anything :0 u can imagine my shock I asked my Gpa about this ( not directly referring to th woman just about non believers ) he said they all go to hell as we'll as they should I thought that was a little judgmental and god said not to do that
Quote Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Discussion · Next Topic »
Add Reply
  • Pages:
  • 1

Theme created by Sjaelen Auren from Zathyus Networks Resources