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Pro-life?
Topic Started: Oct 29 2013, 09:22 PM (337 Views)
Beian
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Loving Leader of Best Country
Bump
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Thunorim
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Haradrim
no dont. this debate is pointless
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Samara Morgan
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Personally I'm for abortion.
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Gaunt Apostle
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Pro-choice all the way. Also in favor of the death penalty, on a somewhat related note.
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Syndicate
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Orc
Definitely in favor of the death penalty in certain circumstances. Also I believe that it should be pro choice for the first 3 months before the fetus develops consciousness. But what do you say about cases of rape and when the fetus is endangering the women's life? Also what if the mother is just going to give away the fetus from the moment of birth he's going to live a miserable life being bullied and living in an orphanage and contributing to overpopulation is that really fair to the baby?
Edited by Syndicate, Dec 15 2013, 03:58 AM.
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IH
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The Ever Curious
I would disagree that the baby has consciousness after the first three months, a rudimentary sensory nervous system, perhaps but not a consciousness. Certainly, a baby doesn't even know it is a separate being from its mother until around 18 months after birth (this is the age at which it develops the Philosophy of Mind).
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Syndicate
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Orc
I'm not exactly sure when he gains consciousness and can feel pain but I know it's not when you're saying.
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Beian
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Loving Leader of Best Country
I love abortion, I'm just gonna get that out there right now, and I fully support abortion.
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Syndicate
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Orc
Oh you!
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IH
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The Ever Curious
Pain perhaps, not consciousness.

The Philosophy of Mind is developed when a child becomes a separate entity from its mother; evolutionarily, a baby cannot have the Philosophy of Mind because it would think itself a separate entity from its mother and have separate interests from its mother, potentially leading it to rebel and the mother cast it out to die.

Up until the development of the Philosophy of Mind, a baby does not know it is a person in its own right, it can only see the distance between the mother's eyes and the mother's breast, for instance, because that's only as far as it needs to see. The baby, at this point, is not a person and it has no consciousness of its own; it is much like an animal in this regard.

The baby develops the Philosophy of Mind at around 18 months, this is when a baby comes to realise that it is not the same person as it's mother; it is at this time that a baby comes to have different emotions and feelings from its mother, it rebels in a small way, this is why toddlers are a nuisance whilst shopping. (Coincidently, people learn how to walk at about this age, we can see which people have had trouble developing a Philosophy of Mind by how they walk; if a person walks from heel to toe, they had no problems developing a Philosophy of Mind, a person that walks from toe to heel did have problems developing the Philosophy of Mind).

It is with this in mind that I state that whilst the baby may be able to experience the sensation of pain, it does not a consciousness.
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Syndicate
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Orc
Interesting. It's still wrong to give pain to someone who can feel it.
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Beian
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Loving Leader of Best Country
So you're against circumcision as well?
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Syndicate
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Orc
Yep.
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Beian
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Loving Leader of Best Country
But it can lead to major health problems without it, and without and a consciousnes they wont remember the pain.
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Syndicate
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Orc
Then that's fine. I mean unnesacary pain.
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IH
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The Ever Curious
Beian
Dec 15 2013, 05:00 PM
So you're against circumcision as well?
I am against circumcision as well unless it is in the patients direct medical interest, which it usually isn't.
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Syndicate
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Orc
Hmmm
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Pergamon
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Legatus Ordo Pacificus
Just my 50ct: In my eyes, as long the baby stays in the mother's body and connected with the umbilical cord, it's still a part of the mother's body. And everyone should be able to do with his body what he/she wants. Noone should be forced to have a child, or have the suffering and pain of birth. And when you have an intercourse and get pregnant? Well shit happens. I am for abortion and against teenage mothers. (or mothers that actually don't want to be mothers :o - I mean.. there is 1. a possibility you could die while giving birth and 2. kids don't deserve to be unwanted (would you like it to be called "an accident", or rise up in another family because your parent's didn't want you?) - I think abortion is a better way. People can choose if they are ready to become parents, and only have a child when they realy want it.

To the GUYS who are MILITANT against abortion: Ever thought about the girls, no? Want to tell every guy which is zealing against abortion: Dudes, stop to have sex. Seriously. Even if you use contraception - accidents can happen. It's easy to tell a girl then: "yo, can't kill the life, have a baby." But in fact, YOU guys, you don't need to go through the suffering of pregnancy or give birth. Easy say if it does not affect you. That's my opinion.
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Syndicate
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Orc
If you don't have sex till your ready to have a baby then that won't happen. Also it's fine to do it early on but once it develops consciousness and sentience it's like drowning a baby in a well.
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9002
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Uruk-Hai
Syndicate
Dec 15 2013, 08:12 PM
If you don't have sex till your ready to have a baby then that won't happen. Also it's fine to do it early on but once it develops consciousness and sentience it's like drowning a baby in a well.
that is so true!
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