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On Arms Embargoes
Topic Started: May 25 2014, 02:23 PM (253 Views)
Chris
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Ivan Rogers
Permanent Representative of the United Kingdom to the European Union

Esteemed Representatives, I have brought you here today to discuss two subjects, one rather more complex than the other. As a result, I shall address the simple of the two first.

Egypt's recent intervention in Libya has led to calls from members of Her Majesty 's Government to implement an embargo against the Egyptian government for all supplies of lethal military equipment. We would like to suggest that this become an EU-wide policy, and in the interim, the UK government will impose a unilateral embargo until Egypt ceases its military operations.

Now, our main reason for calling you here, as you are no doubt aware, the Foreign Minister of China has requested a cancellation of the EU and embargo against his country. He raises many valid points, pointing out that we are no longer in a Cold War and that human rights in China have improved, and are far better than many countries in the Middle East who we deal with willingly.

It is the position of my government that the embargo against China has run its course, China is a thriving market for European companies, and the only losers in this embargo are our own economies. I would like to propose lifting the embargo, perhaps in a phased manner. Supplying parts and components initially, and if after several years these are used in a manner that suggests they are not simply being cloned and built in China, we can consider the sale of more complex systems.

Eurocopter and Airbus already have factories in China producing aircraft for the Chinese market. Whether we like it or not, some of these are used by the PLA, so in reality, the embargo isn't terribly effective. Also, China poses no direct military that to Europe, so I must ask any opponents of removing the embargo, what are your grounds for this?

I yield the floor for discussion.
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iceviking
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Peter Tempel

Permanent Representation of the Federal Republic of Germany to the European Union
Brussels


We agree with our British friends on an arms embargo against Egypt but also Libya as well. We are seeing the region descending into chaos. China on the other hand is a different story. We have had issues with China copying our automobiles in the past, what is not them to do the same to our military equipment as well and breach copyright laws which are lapse in China. Germany is not sure it will benefit us at the moment. We are willing to look at lifting on certain items, i.e parts but not whole units yet.

Also Washington has called for us not to lift as it will also badly effect our relationship with America, something we need to think about carefully.
Edited by iceviking, May 25 2014, 11:33 PM.
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Chris
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Ivan Rogers
Permanent Representative of the United Kingdom to the European Union

I agree that an embargo on Libya would also be a logical step.

Our own concerns about the illegal reproduction of technology in China has led to our proposal of parts and components for a period of several years. Assuming that we find no examples of copying, we can expand sales to include other products in the future.

I understand your position regarding the United States, but we must remember that Washington has sold military helicopters to China, and that while the United States is a limited market for European products, one need only look at the dodgy rigging of the KC-45 proposal to see the contempt with which America sees our defence relationship, China offers a vast potential market for helicopters, transport aircraft, vehicles and engines. None of these on their own are 'offensive systems' and I don't believe we should allow Washington to dictate our trade policies.

Washington has no means of punishing us, short of publicly expressing disapproval. By contrast, I believe we have much to gain by opening our doors to China.
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iceviking
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Peter Tempel

Permanent Representation of the Federal Republic of Germany to the European Union
Brussels


Germany will agree to non-offensive equipment, i.e helicopters, vehicles and transport aircraft, We agree with our British friend the potential will be huge, as long we can can overcome copyright and production issues.
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KnightConcorde
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Canada
Marek Prawda
Permanent Representative of the Republic of Poland to the European Union

The Republic of Poland supports the decision by the United Kingdom to place an unilateral arms embargo on Egypt. The Republic of Poland also supports placing an arms embargo on Libya in order to prevent third-parties from supplying arms to various non-state groups within that country.

Finally, the Republic of Poland supports the partial lifting of the arms embargo on the Peoples Republic of China. We believe that the arms embargo should only be lifted for parts, with a full lifting of the arms embargo coming later depending on what happens during that period of time.
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iceviking
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Peter Tempel

Permanent Representation of the Federal Republic of Germany to the European Union
Brussels


In regards to the crisis in Egypt , Germany is calling forwards for economic sanctions against Egypt . Also sanctions would be placed on Libya as well. We hope that the threat of sanctions from the European Union will make Egypt think.
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iceviking
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Peter Tempel

Permanent Representation of the Federal Republic of Germany to the European Union
Brussels


We believe that all EU members should vote on the following

(1) Easing restrictions to the Peoples Republic of China in the sale of non combatant items, i.e helicopters, auxiliary vessels, etc

(2) Sanctions against Egypt and Libya, this will be in the form of economic sanctions as well freeze on arms sales to both nations.
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iceviking
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Peter Tempel

Permanent Representation of the Federal Republic of Germany to the European Union
Brussels


Germany votes

(1) Yes

(2) Yes
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Chris
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Ivan Rogers
Permanent Representative of the United Kingdom to the European Union

United Kingdom votes

(1) Yes

(2) Yes
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KnightConcorde
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Canada
Marek Prawda
Permanent Representative of the Republic of Poland to the European Union

The Republic of Poland votes

(1) Yes

(2) Yes
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