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| Ankara Conference; Turkey - Israel | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 22 2014, 07:17 PM (228 Views) | |
| Eryk | Oct 22 2014, 07:17 PM Post #1 |
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Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs It is my pleasure to welcome the Israeli delegation to Ankara in order to discuss standing issues. I believe that before we move forward with our discussions it is imperative to note the importance of this conference and the potential it has to break barriers in our relationship, or create new ones. It is our hope that given the deteriorating security in the Middle East some movement on certain issues can be achieved, allowing for a workable relationship to rebuild over the course of the coming years. We propose the following overview of our discussions: 1) Economic relations and the capacity to expand both as a means of strengthening ties, increasing bilateral trade, and growth of both respective economies, 2) Defense relations, including the review of suspended defense projects and the potential to resume these, and 3) Diplomatic relations overall, with greater cooperation and consultation on regional issues. |
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| C.E | Oct 23 2014, 12:51 AM Post #2 |
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![]() Israeli Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs I wish to extent my gratitude to the Turkish Government for this invitation with the purpose of re-initiating relations. It is no secret that Israel has been somewhat disappointed by the Ankara’s altered policies toward my country and the Jewish people. Then-Premier Erdogan did his uppermost to freeze any possibility of reconciliation between our nations and we therefore stand in front of a tough task. Israel and Turkey shares many of the same concerns related to national security and commencement of unfriendly relations is counterproductive towards the rise of the terrorist army of the Islamic State, the destabilized Syria, the war in Iraq and the resurrection of Iraqi Kurdistan. Israel and Turkey may not agree on all aspects of each other’s dealings, but we must at any time confront each other with mutual respect and understanding. Now it is the Israeli position that Turkey must take the first step. Turkey must respect Israel's right for self-defence and Israel’s right to protect its homeland. That, being undertaking defensive actions towards the terrorists in Gaza, and we do not expect Turkey to affirm our actions, we do however not approve of hostile remarks or counterproductive actions towards the right of self-defence. Turkish courts must further withdraw its charges against IDF officers for actions undertaken for the sake of protection in Gaza. Accussations that Israel to any extent is meddling in for instance Egyptian political affairs must be rejected and refrained from. Turkey must further clarify its position on the defence agreements that was put on-hold and which applied a unnecessary burden on Israeli defence contractors losing the prospect of operational profit above $ 3 billion. Israel does not oppose returning to a more fruitful economic environment between our countries, but such can only apply when clarification and political reconciliation has been made. Finally, we believe that a common debate on the aspect of an independent Kurdish state is important to align expectations about the future of the Middle East. The Middle East remains to be a melting pot of insecurity and war. Iraqi Kurdistan might be that sole positive prospect arising from years of terror and instability. OOC |
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| Eryk | Oct 26 2014, 05:08 PM Post #3 |
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Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Turkey has always acknowledged the right of the State of Israel to exist and its right to self-defense; indeed, it was our country that was the first of any with a Muslim majority to recognize Israel and extend diplomatic relations. Our position in this regard has not changed. We do however believe, that our respective positions on what constitutes self-defense are irreconcilable. Both of our countries face significant threats on our borders and within them, however we have and will continue to oppose the Gaza blockade on humanitarian grounds. This is not related to Israeli self-defense, merely to our acknowledgment of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, and our belief that the best way to stop terrorism is to provide individuals with equal opportunity, employment, and safe homes where their families can reside in, and their children can grow. Whilst our approach on this issue fundamentally differs, we are not prepared to continue erecting them as a barrier to diplomatic ties. With regards to ongoing judicial cases against members of the Israeli Defense Force, we believe that the events that unfolded on the Gaza flotilla must be investigated. Turkish citizens were, according to our most extensive knowledge, deliberately murdered and even executed after being overwhelmed by force for whatever reason. A settlement could be reached whereas Israel provides proper compensation to the victims of those killed which would provide at least some comfort to the relatives of those who paid the ultimate price. In any case, it is not within the purview of the executive branch in Turkey to dismiss judicial proceedings at whim; but as previously suggested, it is probable that the Israeli state could reach an out-of-court settlement with the thirty-three relatives who brought the case against the four Israeli officers. Turkey is prepared, as privately clarified, to investigate the previous defense agreements put on hold, and reevaluate them at this conference to reach a proper settlement. We do believe that a resumption could be possible should these still hold any ground, given that they have been suspended many years ago. |
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| C.E | Oct 28 2014, 04:03 PM Post #4 |
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![]() Israeli Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs We must request the Turkish Government to refer to the actions of Israeli Special Forces as “deliberate” murder as it is deteriorative for this dialogue and untrue. Israeli SOF opened fire only after being attacked with clubs, knives and a gun which was taken from them. Futher the ship in question was needed to be checked to ensure that it did not contain deliveries of weapons or cash. Israel had offered to allow the flotilla to land in an Israeli port, and to deliver by road any goods that passed its checks. All that said, Israel has already offered $ 20,000,000 in compensation to Turkish families, but such compensation is of course on the condition that law suits are ended. Turkey has not approved this proposal and I suggest that you reconsider? |
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| Eryk | Oct 28 2014, 05:10 PM Post #5 |
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Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs There are bound to be disagreements as to the events which unfolded on the vessel at that point in time. With the facts that we have available to us, as reported by the United Nations and other organizations, violations of human rights did occur, as did the excessive use of force whilst the vessel was still in international waters. These are facts, not constructs of the Turkish government or any Turkish legal counsel. Then-Prime Minister Erdoğan accepted the Israeli apology for the raid, and we continue to do so, hoping to put this issue behind us. So long as the families of the deceased accept the Israeli offer, the Turkish government will not stand in the way of an agreement taking place, and will actively support it as a means of resolving this issue. |
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| C.E | Oct 29 2014, 12:46 AM Post #6 |
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![]() Israeli Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Koru, Turkey has rejected the proposal for compensation including its conditions until now. I feel that this conference is going nowhere and merely a method to halt Israel's relations with other parties. The matter of the Mavi Marmara operated by IHH, whom has connections with al-Qaida, is within your prerogative at this point and we cannot proceed before clarification has been made and neither can Israel proceed without now-President, Mr. Erdogan’s issue of an official apology to his statements last summer 2014 in which he stated “[Israelis] have no conscience, no honor, no pride,”. “Those who condemn Hitler — day and night — have surpassed Hitler in barbarism". The follow-up by foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu was even further deteriorative to relations whereas he stated that “This place includes the cave of Hira [near Mecca where Muslims believe Muhammad received his first revelations from God], which enlightens humanity. We will work night and day to remove the colonialists from this region. We will raise the light of civilizations in the Middle East.”- Of course completely ignoring Turkey's Ottoman heritage. I believe that now-President Erdogan must issue a statement on how Turkey wishes relations with Israel to commence. A statement that reflects your intentions, because as of now, I cannot see the direction of the dialogue. When will Turkey re-establish trade ties? When will Turkey re-establish diplomatic ties? Until such time, Israel must proceed collaboration with other candidates and alternatives in the region and we will not include Turkish concerns into our political viewpoints until such time that the aforementioned clarification has been made. |
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| Eryk | Oct 29 2014, 12:28 PM Post #7 |
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Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs We would have believed that a change in position on compensation would clearly signal our attempt to put this issue behind us. Nonetheless, we find the tone adopted by Israeli diplomats to be extremely condescending, patronizing, and inappropriate given this historic opportunity to move relations forward. Instead of moving forward on multiple issues as Turkey is seeking to do, it appears Israel has sent a delegation to dig deeper into the wounds of the past, as if to deliberately sabotage any attempt at rapprochement and reconciliation. It is with great regret that I must agree that this conference is going nowhere. Given the likely premature end at this point, I find myself obligated to restate the Turkish position on the Kurdish issue as clarified privately, in that we hope Israel will act with caution when arming and providing advanced weaponry to Kurdish forces. It is Tel Aviv's prerogative to consider - or not - the viewpoint of Ankara on this issue, however we shall ensure our position contains no ambiguity. We will actively oppose Israeli designs to undermine Turkish security in this area, and will take necessary steps to prevent destabilization of the area in question. If Israel is prepared to reconsider its approach in due time, Ankara will be prepared to reopen talks and discuss bilateral ties once more. |
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| C.E | Oct 29 2014, 03:16 PM Post #8 |
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![]() Israeli Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Koru, Israel is not prepared to “reconsider” our approach and we reject the notion that Israel is “extremely condescending, patronizing, and inappropriate given this historic opportunity to move relations forward”. We find it somewhat absurd that I am invited here to reconcile and is met by claims that IDF commandos have “deliberately murdered and even executed“. Mr. Koru is that your plan for reconciliation? Further, the Turkish delegation requests compensation and a proposal for a compensation of $ 20,000,000.00 have been proposed, which in turn has been rejected. Now Israel will not attend a bidding contest to satisfy Turkey and therefore requests Turkey to provide a substantial clarification on what the expectations are? |
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| Eryk | Oct 29 2014, 04:49 PM Post #9 |
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Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Hanegbi, I did not bring up the issue of the Gaza flotilla and the IDF commandos in question, you did. Therefore I provided a response, whilst clarifying two things: (1) the Turkish government is prepared to move past this issue, that the apology issued by Israel has been accepted, and that it will continue to be accepted without further issue, and (2) that the Turkish government will no longer stand in the way of a settlement outside of court between the families of the deceased and the Israeli government. I do not believe I could be clearer than that on this issue; if Israel once move proposes compensation of $20,000,000, then it will be accepted by the Turkish government in hopes of moving forward relations. |
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| C.E | Oct 30 2014, 01:58 PM Post #10 |
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![]() Israeli Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs Mr. Koru, Is it not reconciliation between our nations? And is the entire debacle about the illegal Gaza Flotilla not the core to that matter? Israel requests that the Turkish state coordinates a settlement as we cannot do so directly between Israel and the families in question. For the matter of clarification, if it has ever been questioned by the Turkish Government, Israel proposal of $20,000,000.00 for compensation remains. Further, if actual reconciliation is at hand here, Israel must request that the Turkish withdraws certain hawkish and outright racist statement made between 2010 and today, including the aforementioned that I allowed myself to quote. Reconciliation is a two-way street and we cannot allow ourselves to move past this issue without addressing it as it is an integral part of said, reconciliation as it is for Mr. Netanyahu’s apology. Further to that we must request clarification on Turkish imposed sanctions on Israel? Edited by C.E, Oct 30 2014, 02:29 PM.
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10:54 AM Jul 11
